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MILTON, ONT

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Turbo inline 6
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Well. I guess it didn't take too long to get this done... car was down for about 2 weeks. 

The first turbo I had one was not sized right and didn't produce boost until about 4,000 RPM. 

I swapped that one out for a more appropriate size and now see full boost at 3,000 RPM. 

Runs pretty good! 



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ONTARIO

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Very cool keep us posted.

 



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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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Cool, What are you using for a turbo and where did you get it from?

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S/W ONTARIO

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Yea what Mike said

Cool, What are you using for a turbo and where did you get it from? 

 Any problems with the carb being pressureized or is it for this type of installation??

Good for you doing this 

TMJ



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PORT HOPE, ONT

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Very cool. Ed



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MILTON, ONT

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I am using a Garrett turbo GT38, iirc.
Right now I am running it at 7psi... Stock original 194 engine. No intercooler or meth... need to be careful I don't detonate!
Over the winter I'd like to add both and possibly increase to 11psi.
I'm running out of fuel after about 6 seconds of boost. I suspect low fuel pressure but have not checked yet.

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St THOMAS, ONT

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What's with the leather condom on the turbo??

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WOODLAWN, ONT

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Another interesting build.



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MILTON, ONT

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The leather condom is a carbon fiber heat blanket. Doesn't fit the greatest, but with no intercooler... I need to keep the underhood Temps down!

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PORTLAND, ONT

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HI ADAM > VERY COOL mod --- It should really wake up the 194 -- Now just imagine if that was a 292 instead of a 194 -- You would need bigger seat belts -- Good luck and keep us other INLINERS posted -- We need more Inlines -- They are very cool and easy to live with !! -- LATER -- DON / Fleet 51

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MILTON, ONT

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Hey Don! Thanks!
I have a 250 on the engine stand waiting to be built.
I'm really thinking of going with the 4200 vortec inline... 290HP stock and I can p. 15lbs of boost into it! Looking at about 450HP at the wheel like that!
I love the inline engine! So tired of the V8 blah blah blah!

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dodgy canuck wrote:

The leather condom is a carbon fiber heat blanket. Doesn't fit the greatest, but with no intercooler... I need to keep the underhood Temps down!


 

 

If that functions as expected and it does keep the under hood temperature down, wouldn't that mean it is also driving the temperature of the turbo itself to stratospheric levels?  (which I would assume would drastically shorten the life of the turbo).  

A nice (low and stock-for-a-Camaro, easy to see over) cowl hood does wonders for removing hot air from an engine compartment.



-- Edited by chips on Tuesday 8th of December 2015 10:33:34 PM

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PORTLAND, ONT

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HI ADAM : A lot of the guys in " Inliners Int'l " are going over to the 4200 -- A buddy of mine in Fl is putting one in a Chevelle Wagon . All of the wiring to trick the 4200 into thinking it's in the original car is now fully available , and you're right -- More power in stock form than a built 250 ( and VERY drivable !! ) - Keep us up to date -- LATER -- DON / Fleet 51

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TORONTO, ONT

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Is your fuel pump or regulator boost referenced?


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MILTON, ONT

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RacerRick ~ I was guided to enlarge the atmospheric vent hole in the mechanical pump and install a boost reference line... I was told that under boost, this will increase the fuel pressure proportional with the boost.
I've been lazy, and now the car is tucked away... didn't get around to checking what the pressure was doing under boost.
Think I will be getting a much better electric fuel pump (that will supply for the goal 20 psi boost).

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Very cool! Love the idea of a boosted straight six. Was thinkin the same thing for my 82 GMC shortbox. Just dont think its financially feaseable. So probably the boring V8 it will stay.Good luck with the upgrades.

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GRAFTON, ONT

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dodgy canuck wrote:

Well. I guess it didn't take too long to get this done... car was down for about 2 weeks. 

The first turbo I had one was not sized right and didn't produce boost until about 4,000 RPM. 

I swapped that one out for a more appropriate size and now see full boost at 3,000 RPM. 

Runs pretty good! 


you should intercool it, the heat from the turbo will really hurt the hp and the engine, if not then a longer charge pipe for sure 



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dodgy canuck wrote:

I am using a Garrett turbo GT38, iirc.
Right now I am running it at 7psi... Stock original 194 engine. No intercooler or meth... need to be careful I don't detonate!
Over the winter I'd like to add both and possibly increase to 11psi.
I'm running out of fuel after about 6 seconds of boost. I suspect low fuel pressure but have not checked yet.


 blow through carb will drop 100° across the carb, so generally you dont need to  spray meth or have an intercooler. also you should run an boost reference fuel regulator, you want your fuel pressure and your boost pressure to be 1:1.



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MILTON, ONT

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Intercooler is coming along! 



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MILTON, ONT

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With the intercooler, I will be increasing boost to 11psi.
My mechanical fuel pump is modified for boost reference, but I am having an issue with fuel at the moment.
I seem to be running out of fuel after about 5 seconds of full boost. Not sure yet if my jets need increased or if I am over powering the fuel pressure and emptying the bowls.
Going to hook a fuel pressure gauge in and see what it is doing.

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whats the fuel pressure at full boost? i would recommend putting a good electric pump and boost reference regulator on it. you are probably dont have enough fuel pressure and when its at full boost it stops fuel flow.

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Rob-A wrote:

whats the fuel pressure at full boost? 


 

He doesn't know.  

 

I was guided to enlarge the atmospheric vent hole in the mechanical pump and install a boost reference line... I was told that under boost, this will increase the fuel pressure proportional with the boost. 

I've been lazy, and now the car is tucked away... didn't get around to checking what the pressure was doing under boost. 



-- Edited by chips on Wednesday 2nd of March 2016 09:43:33 AM

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TORONTO, ONT

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Going lean under boost is the quickest way to melt pistons.

I would put a temp fuel pressure guage in the line to the carb and run it where you can see it. You will want about 5-7psi above boost pressure. Put your boost guage tap in the carb hat,as this usually sees the most boost, and this is the pressure the fuel bowl will see through the bowl vent.

What carb are you using? Many of the small 2 brls have a very small needle and seat and you might be emptying the bowl faster than it can be filled.

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RacerRick wrote:

Going lean under boost is the quickest way to melt pistons.


 

X 2



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MILTON, ONT

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chips wrote:
RacerRick wrote:

Going lean under boost is the quickest way to melt pistons.


 

X 2


 Don't I know it! 

 

I have boost referenced my mechanical pump. Once the car is on the road (next month) i will check the pressure.

i am using a 500 holley 2 barrel. Should be plenty for this application.



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MILTON, ONT

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I have acquired the front sub frame and support rails for my Nova. I just now came into a rebuilt mustang II rack for it as well.

Now I need the mustang II cross member and suspension. The cross member I will talk to Paul Horton about during the crawl.
The suspension, I think, will be a Fatman kit (surprisingly cheap)!

If all goes well, I've got a project for the next 'dark time' (winter).

Mwuhahaha! Maniacal laugh! Mwuhahaha!

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Brand new manual racks are only $200.

Is Fatman cheaper than Horton, what with the exchange rate, duty etc? All you really need are uppers and lowers I'd guess, plus a set of factory spindles off Kijiji.

I'd be more inclined to buy the control arms off the same people who made the cross member.

 

edit:  That's odd, I can't even find upper and lower control arms in the Welder Series catalogue (on line).



-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 07:14:28 PM

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MILTON, ONT

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I'm not sure welder series makes the control arms.
I look at Fatman for the hub to hub kits which are only about $400 US. Probably the cheapest I will find.
I think I'd rather buy the kit then mess around piecing stuff together.
Still looking into it at this point.

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Nice build man.

Any luck on the fueling issue, Possibly the seats in the bowls are a bit to small and like stated your empyting the bowls out.


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MILTON, ONT

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If the weather stays as nice as is said, I will pull it out of the garage and give it a go... see what I can find.

I had assumed that a stock 500 would be overkill for this application, which is why I never changed the Jets at all. I guess a few test runs will tell the tale.

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dodgy canuck wrote:

 I guess a few test runs will tell the tale.


 

 

AFTER the install of a fuel pressure gauge right?



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MILTON, ONT

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Of course.

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MILTON, ONT

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So, I decided that I hate the placement of the intercooler! I am going to remove it, fix the bumper (until I find a replacement) and most likely sell this intercooler. I have a other route planned, now it needs set in motion!

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MILTON, ONT

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Intercooler 2.0 was a fail :(
I had it placed on the passenger side of the engine, parallel to the engine. Installed the hood scoops to direct air onto the surface of the intercooler. It heat soaked, big time, at lower speeds and cause pinging, even out of boost, because of the astronomic heat!
Removed the cooler and went back to the way it was before.
Version 3.0 is on its way. Fingers crossed for better luck!

Oh, and the addition of the intercooler created a 500 RPM lag over the non-instercooler version. So, instead of seeing boost at 3,000 RPM, it became 3,500! That's getting up there for my bone stock 194!

I pulled apart the 250 that is on the stand. Found something different... #1 main bearing, engine side, is almost completely worn to the brass(?) Not the cap side, though. Never seen that. Also, #5 rod bearing is the same. Worn on the rod side through to the brass, and not on the cap side. The journals all measure about the same. Less than .002" difference in them. All caps were tight. Wondered if the power steering in the donor car was putting too much stress on the top side of the crank.
With a quick hone, re-ring and bottom end bearings... Should be good as gold. Yea right.

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MARKHAM, ONT

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If I  remember my machinist stuff right, 1/2 shell wear on a main points to a crankcase distortion or bad line hone.  Upper shell wear on a rod is usually overload from detonation.  Both bad news, sorry.



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DOURO, ONT

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air to air intercoolers need to be out under the bumper for lots of air flow
subarus got away with mounting them over the engine only because the engines are flat opposed and far away form the intercooler

if you want good cooling - buy a water to air intercooler setup - more than a few used ones on kijiji or buy new

always er on the high side of flow or hp rating on the intercooler ie buy an intercooler sized larger than you need and adapt the inlets down to your turbo and intake sizes. Pressure drop should never be more than 2%

an intercooler sized properly will increase your power all by itself, never mind that you can increase boost.
A water meth kit is only needed after about 8 lbs of boost on pump gas - if you have high compression and too much timing

ideally you need a boost retard for your ignition so it pulls one degree of timing for every pound of boost. MSD makes some relatively cheap ones - and again you might buy a used one. You want like 28 -30 degrees total timing for driving around, and about 12-18 degrees timing under full boost.  if you are only making say 8 psi boost then your timing can be higher under boost without detonation.

fuel - your carb will only handle 7 lbs fuel pressure without over running the float. You need one pound of fuel pressure added for every pound of boost added
your stock pump was marginal for supply on a stock motor. So an electric pump with a boost referenced regulator is for sure the only way to go. Your Holley is more than big enough for this application. - what you may find is tha the carb you have is not set up for boost  - meaning the power valve is no longer opening - and you are in fact running lean or out of fuel - the simple way to fix this is buy a power valve plug and throw the power valve away and jet up 8-10 sizes to compensate for the power valve being removed. The bowl vent needs attention too but I forget what needs doing there to make it function  under boost. if memory serves it is a rerouting of the vacuum passages so the bowl is not seeing boost - so at 8 lbs boost in the bowl  - and only 8 psi fuel  - no fuel gets in, and the bowl cant vent either

theres lots more - but this covers the basics that will get you where you want to be on such a mild build



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 09:05:09 AM



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 02:41:41 PM



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 02:43:28 PM



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 02:50:45 PM

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DOURO, ONT

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ps - a GT38 is whats commonly used an a Ford V8 diesel  - which is about 2.5 times too big for your little 6 cyl which is why it isn't lighting until around 3k

you need a turbo with about a 50mm or less compressor and a turbine in the 55-60 range, with exhaust housing in the .6 range which will get you starting to light around 1400-1500 rpm and fully lit by about 2200 rpm



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 02:46:12 PM

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DOURO, ONT

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smoking deal on the complete setup for water to air

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-engine-parts/city-of-toronto/water-to-air-intercooler-kit/1158984945?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true



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DOURO, ONT

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http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-engine-parts/hamilton/vortech-ignition-boost-controller/1144585763?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-auto-parts-and-accessories/oakville-halton-region/vortech-msd-boost-control/1143488719?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

 

ignition retard



-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 16th of June 2016 03:58:01 PM

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TORONTO, ONT

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Your turbo is a little big, but you should be fine, as you should be on the right side of the surge line on the efficiency map, but barely. A small GT25 or GT28, or even a T3 turbo would be a better fit.

Start with seeing if you fuel system will keep up, and then work from there. I think I see your car every time I go to my parents. They live on White Drive in Milton.

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you dont need a intercooler for blow through carb set up. the charge temp drops 100 degrees across the carb. i was in the dyno room with a blow through carb turbo on a stock 6.0 LS which made 790 and the carb was cold to the touch after two pulls at 15psi.

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MILTON, ONT

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Fuel delivery appears to be solved. I can hold full throttle for as long as I need.
I was mistaken on which turbo I have... it's actually a GT3582. Still a bit big, but should work perfectly with the 250 when it goes in. Plus, I got an amazing deal on it!
I've been considering the ignition retard boxes... but am not sold on the fixed rate of retard. That said, for the $100 the one is asking... I'd almost be a fool not to!
I'm looking more toward the j & s safeguard unit as a knock detection/ignition retard.
I run ultra 94 all the time.
Don't have money for the air/liquid cooler. Even the used one a $400.

Rick - you're right... that is me. Stop by sometime.

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TORONTO, ONT

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I would get it running on low boost with no intercooler, and just keep an eye on IAT's. The latent heat of vaporization of the gasoline will make the inlet temp quite at bit lower....just put a temp sensor in the intake manifold.

If your 250 is a dud, I think I know where 2 rebuilt ones are.

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MILTON, ONT

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Where are these unicorns, Rick?
I need to know!!!

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TORONTO, ONT

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An old engine shop a friend of mine owns. I think he has two - an integral head and non integral. Already rebuilt. lol


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ONTARIO

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Anything new with your project Adam?


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MILTON, ONT

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I've got the Nova in the garage for the winter with some big plans!
194 is coming out. 250 is going in. Up the boost to 11psi. Upgrade the fuel system with a Holley blue pump and boost referenced regulator. New rad. 200R4 transmission. And done other detail stuff.
Other than my mechanical fuel pump crapping out, this thing ran like a champ last summer!
If all works out as it should, I'm looking at over 425 at the crank! My old Punisher Nova was about that... pretty fast in that light car 😁

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ONTARIO

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Thanks for the update, your Nova has me curious.

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MILTON, ONT

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Curiosity, eh!?!
What are you curious about? Why I'm an idiot and didn't just put a small block in? Bwahahahaha! Most people chirp me about that!

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ONTARIO

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I just like it when someone does what they want, the way they want - if, for no more reason than just the h*ll of it - and has fun. Seems like you're having fun. Carry on.

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