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Post Info TOPIC: Regulation 611 Changes to the Ontario Safety Inspection Standards effective July 1 2016


ORANGEVILLE, ONT

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RE: Regulation 611 Changes to the Ontario Safety Inspection Standards effective July 1 2016
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Going to a seminar on June 2 regarding the new regulations for certification.Post any questions you may have and I will try to get the answers.



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ONTARIO

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Most questions can be answered by reading the new regulations here ----> http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/pdfs/passenger-light-duty-vehicle-inspection-standard.pdf

 

Here some things that could be asked;

What about shaved door handles?

Frame modifications (i.e. welding) like boxing in ?

Aftermarket brakes that use AN fittings (Wilwood etc..) ?

Lifted trucks ?

I'll come up with a few more, but these are just I few that came to mind.



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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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Petebil wrote:

Most questions can be answered by reading the new regulations here ----> http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/pdfs/passenger-light-duty-vehicle-inspection-standard.pdf

 

Here some things that could be asked;

What about shaved door handles?

Frame modifications (i.e. welding) like boxing in ?

Aftermarket brakes that use AN fittings (Wilwood etc..) ?

Lifted trucks ?

I'll come up with a few more, but these are just I few that came to mind.


 Shave door handles have never been legal for safety.

Welding or boxing in on a frame is ok as long as it's done properly and doesn't hinder suspension, steering etc.

As long as the fittings are DOT approved, they are ok. Info should be available from manufacturer. I know I have looked at braided flexed hose for this.

Lifted or lowered vehicles are ok as long as done properly. EG steering, suspension, brakes etc must work properly.

Test drive is required, so lifted trucks with 200 lb tires that don't stop may fail.

 



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ONTARIO

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Most aftermarket brakes are not DOT approved. Wilwood, Baer etc.. all use AN and NPT fittings which are not DOT.
What I do find odd, is that motorcycle braided flex lines are stamped DOT, even though they have AN-3 on either end.
If shaved door handles have never been legal, then technically all of them that have been certified in the past have done so through a shoddy certification. No reason why things would change then after July 1st.

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manafrelv.com/product/front-disc-brake-conversion-kit-w-wilwood-6-piston-dynapro-calipers/


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www.wilwood.com/Search/PartNoSearch.aspx%20WILWOOD%20BRAKES%20DOT%20APP

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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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I really don't see much changing for shoddy/improperly done safeties after July 1. If the inspector lied before (IE never really did a proper safety when he said he did), he will probably continue to do the same after July 1. The same safety form is used, no pictures are taken and government offical doesn't inspect for them self unless some one complains that the vehicle they purchased doesn't seem to meet the minimum guide lines.
Remember the vehicle passed it's inspected on the day it was inspected. You can do anything you want to it after it's got a pass/fit designation on the ownership.

Ground Pounder , what was that ramble about? Do you make these kits? Do you know any one who has a pre 76 Land Cruiser? Just confused to what your saying here.


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FOXBORO, ONT

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i was over to my local mechanics shop to see about getting the yearly safety done on my f-350 before the new ones come into effect not knowing what could be coming with the new ones. it would be 2 months earlier than need be. he says i would have no problems with the new one as he see's it. i guess there was a meeting in the area for mechanics pertaining to the new stuff and he said that most of the change is paper work for him. he got busy before i could ask him why a fuel gauge has to work for safety? so, why and use the k.i.s.s. method with the answer please as i find i get confused easier as i get older, lol.



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SCARBOROUGH, ONT

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simply because it ain't safe to be out a ridin round with no friggin clue how much gas you have

run out in the express lanes - get run over by 6 transport trucks
or wifie borrows truck to go shoppin .. freezes to death on the side of the road because she ran outta gas

idono why do you think you might wanna have a working gas gauge ?

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FOXBORO, ONT

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there you go, all are very legit pts. i guess i was on the why it has to work side and not the if it didn't side. good one's.

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Lightspeed Mike wrote:

I really don't see much changing for shoddy/improperly done safeties after July 1. If the inspector lied before (IE never really did a proper safety when he said he did), he will probably continue to do the same after July 1. The same safety form is used, no pictures are taken and government offical doesn't inspect for them self unless some one complains that the vehicle they purchased doesn't seem to meet the minimum guide lines.
Remember the vehicle passed it's inspected on the day it was inspected. You can do anything you want to it after it's got a pass/fit designation on the ownership.

Ground Pounder , what was that ramble about? Do you make these kits? Do you know any one who has a pre 76 Land Cruiser? Just confused to what your saying here.


 Simply pointing out that what petebil posted was not entirely correct....with his comment of..Most aftermarket brakes are not DOT approved. Wilwood, Baer etc.

Too which they are...

Also don't know about you? However if the parts are designed to run at high speeds an survive such as brakes !.On or off the track ,as well be of aircraft grade then there is no way any court or ministry text book nut bar would ever win in court...

The big issues between factory parts an aftermarket are that aftermarket require more maintenance from time too time ,as well this depends if the installer did the job correct...

We have run wilwood for years on the street an as far we're concerned they are way better then any factory setup an actually have less issues then any factory brake set ups.

 

 

So:

 

what was that ramble about? not a ramble..no... Do you make these kits?..Nope sell them all through..biggrin.. Do you know any one who has a pre 76 Land Cruiser?... Use to own one with big block chevy in it... Was a very kewl monster....  Just confused to what your saying here....confuseHope that clears up the confusion....biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

 



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ONTARIO

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Ground Pounder wrote:

 Simply pointing out that what petebil posted was not entirely correct....with his comment of..Most aftermarket brakes are not DOT approved. Wilwood, Baer etc.

 


 Where was that comment not correct !! I made sure I included the word "MOST", because I knew some keyboard warrior would argue what I was saying.

That kit above is not DOT compliant because it uses 1/8NPT fittings. Are they better than factory brakes? Absolutely, but they're still not legal. 

If you're going to argue the point, at least post a link where they claim the KIT is DOT compliant, not just the brake line. 



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Petebil wrote:
Ground Pounder wrote:

 Simply pointing out that what petebil posted was not entirely correct....with his comment of..Most aftermarket brakes are not DOT approved. Wilwood, Baer etc.

 


 Where was that comment not correct !! I made sure I included the word "MOST", because I knew some keyboard warrior would argue what I was saying.

That kit above is not DOT compliant because it uses 1/8NPT fittings. Are they better than factory brakes? Absolutely, but they're still not legal. 

If you're going to argue the point, at least post a link where they claim the KIT is DOT compliant, not just the brake line. 


 Fair enough bill,We will be contacting wilwood ,As we are a dealer for them ,We'll see if we can get some more clarity on this subject....

As well we used the words not entirely correct...Lots of good info to consider...

 



-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Sunday 8th of May 2016 12:21:15 PM

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ONTARIO

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The braided flex line hose material they are using is DOT approved, but the AN-3 ends are not. One of the reasons AN fittings are not approved is because they require a single 37 degree flare. DOT requires a 45 degree double flare or metric bubble flare. IMO AN fittings are superior and that's why they are the standard for aircraft and racing, but for some stupid reason not good enough for everyday vehicles. Doesn't make sense, but I don't write the rules.
Anyway, look into it and let us know what Wilwood says.

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DUNDAS, ONT

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Petebil wrote:

The braided flex line hose material they are using is DOT approved, but the AN-3 ends are not. One of the reasons AN fittings are not approved is because they require a single 37 degree flare. DOT requires a 45 degree double flare or metric bubble flare. IMO AN fittings are superior and that's why they are the standard for aircraft and racing, but for some stupid reason not good enough for everyday vehicles. Doesn't make sense, but I don't write the rules.
Anyway, look into it and let us know what Wilwood says.


 The biggest problem is that 99.9 % of AN fitting sold to the automotive market are not AN fittings and should never be trusted for brakes . Ive seen hundred's of 37deg flares fail. Frankly I don't see the advantage of paying 4x more in cost to end up with the same thing and yes real AN fitting will cost that much. That being said the real problem is most do it yourselfers and a lot of processionals are to cheap to buy a proper flaring tool. Something worth using will be in the 300+ range and make fast repeatable factory spec flares without any frustration. 



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ONTARIO

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Even the fittings from Russell, Earl's etc.. are not true AN and usually made off-shore from who-knows what kind of material. I would rather use hydraulic JIC fittings which are the same dimensions, and never worry about a failure even though it's still not approved.

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Ya would think the big brake companies would have addressed these issues years ago...
Will call wilwood as stated an take up these questions with them this week.

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DUNDAS, ONT

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An fitting use a J tread and a class three tolerance. thats what makes them expensive it also increases the fatigue strength by 40% and adds 10% to the shear. Ive used industrial JIC fitting for the last 40 years and would never consider using one on a brake system.



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FOXBORO, ONT

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Petebil wrote:

The braided flex line hose material they are using is DOT approved, but the AN-3 ends are not. One of the reasons AN fittings are not approved is because they require a single 37 degree flare. DOT requires a 45 degree double flare or metric bubble flare. IMO AN fittings are superior and that's why they are the standard for aircraft and racing, but for some stupid reason not good enough for everyday vehicles. Doesn't make sense, but I don't write the rules.
Anyway, look into it and let us know what Wilwood says.


 just curious but, are the AN fittings legal in the states for brakes but not here?



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SCARBOROUGH, ONT

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thinking , off hand , maybe the fittings are good for racing but not driving around simply because the racing overseers figure the racing car is more prone to casual mechanical inspection than a dayly driver - thus a leak has a better chance of being caught by some member of the race team than someone who never does more than check their oil level and fill the gas tank

the average road user isn't going prep and inspect every inch of the car before useing it but a race team would

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DJD wrote:

thinking , off hand , maybe the fittings are good for racing but not driving around simply because the racing overseers figure the racing car is more prone to casual mechanical inspection than a dayly driver - thus a leak has a better chance of being caught by some member of the race team than someone who never does more than check their oil level and fill the gas tank

the average road user isn't going prep and inspect every inch of the car before using it but a race team would


 I'm thinking you are correct..agreed,however if you're like most here we stay on top of maintenance.If you're wife is like mine then you have too !!! As she can hear an pays attention to all sounds in the car she travels in....or various other rides trucks etc...If theres an issue she hears or something does not feel right she will simply refuse to use the car etc...until it gets put on the hoist an looked at or repaired...

 

Ya can forget about lying to her as well as in if its not fixed its not her problem its mine an believe me its much easier to get it repaired or addressed then it is to listen to the stress an the caw caw caw like a seagull at mc-d's....lol.

 

Thus every inch of all conveyances we use for travel are heavily maintained

So running such brake set up's fall right in line with you're above comment .thus may be the reason we've never[all us hotrodders] really do not have alot of issues with these set ups...

Also if you all look at british cars they use copper brake lines.....an some pretty weird set ups straight out of the factory...Hmmmm



-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Monday 9th of May 2016 08:15:55 AM

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DUNDAS, ONT

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Its a cooper nickel alloy thats been used in Europe since the 70's . this stuff is the cats ass and a joy to work with . it almost makes it fun.

http://www.fedhillusa.com



-- Edited by slim on Monday 9th of May 2016 08:42:39 AM

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Member

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My local mechanic was at one of those meetings on the new safety check held by some association and came back with the feeling that the mto is going to privatize the safety check through said association something like the dealers association with a membership fee of a little over $500. He was not very happy about it.

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DUNDAS, ONT

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the governments plan

step one . Make the rules so difficult no one could follow them or make money

two. Kick out the red seal trades or better yet create a new one that you can collect fees on minimum wage

three. award the contract to some third world country contractor who's ownership is impossible to trace

Four . line your personal bank account .

When people that don't give a dam if you live or die say they are doing something to make you safer expect to be screwed.



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Klink wrote:

My local mechanic was at one of those meetings on the new safety check held by some association and came back with the feeling that the mto is going to privatize the safety check through said association something like the dealers association with a membership fee of a little over $500. He was not very happy about it.


 Ok here yea's go: some may take o-fence...

First off= **** THE dealers association< OH AN OMVIC AS WELL =
THEY CAN KISS MY ASS>>>Beat them in court...next up major LAWSUIT>

Poke THE grizzly AN expect TO loSE......

This Bear Ain't SLeep...n

Nor does the bear hibernate......You think you might win in court???? Lmfao Yeah OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

KEEP ON TRUCK N>>>>FOLK"S>>>          

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEGTx4jDoak&list=RD8ecE1UML1q8&index=27

 

 











-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Tuesday 10th of May 2016 02:34:17 PM

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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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Klink wrote:

My local mechanic was at one of those meetings on the new safety check held by some association and came back with the feeling that the mto is going to privatize the safety check through said association something like the dealers association with a membership fee of a little over $500. He was not very happy about it.


 I was at the meeting too. I didn't hear anything like that. Only thing private was your choice to join an association be get the safety measurement sheets for free or reduced cost.

 



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NIAGARA REGION, ONT

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MTO does plan on privatizing the delivery of their Motor Vehicle Inspection Station (MVIS) program but don’t hold your breath. They put out a Request for Information last year to feel out the industry to see who was interested but it didn’t go anywhere. They would have to clear lots of hoops and hurdles before anything concrete happens, but yes, they have said they want to outsource its delivery. Mind you, this is just for the administration of the program – the actual inspections would still be done by techs in private garages, just like now. Nobody has been chosen as a “service provider” yet and there will be lots of information available prior to that happening.

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FOXBORO, ONT

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Klink wrote:

My local mechanic was at one of those meetings on the new safety check held by some association and came back with the feeling that the mto is going to privatize the safety check through said association something like the dealers association with a membership fee of a little over $500. He was not very happy about it.


 i don't see this as being a good thing at all. a make work project with another level of bureaucracy that is forced upon you much like the tssa or the local hospital boards and we can't forget mpac for your house tax's. about the only thing that these sort of arms length from government mandated bureaucracies accomplish is creating more reasons why they are needed to protect their mandated jobs and create more of them. i honestly don't know how we made it this far as a society before they were shoved on us. any or all common sense is usually the first thing out the window. remember, job security and more of them with a guaranteed income backed by the government mandated position.

as a for instance, a local independent refrigeration mechanic who has been in the trade and certified for approx 30 years who has a reputation of being one of the better/best ones in this area specializing primarily in commercial work. he installed and help design the largest refrigerated warehouse around here for a lot of miles, as an example, is hanging up his tool belt. tssa says he needs another certificate to solder pipe over 1.5 or 2", i think it is. he has been going through yearly audits since the inception of tssa and has passed with no problems and all of a sudden he needs another ticket to carry on his trade. i asked him about a grandfather clause and he said no it is a mandatory class room with a test. common sense out the window first. you older auto mechanics better get prepared for some sort of yearly audit cause these guys are trying to justify their jobs and create more of them and don't forget, protect me from you. i don't see no upside to any of this unless you think higher yearly lic fees and another level of hogs at a mandated trough is a good thing. if you do i guess maybe i might just need the protection.

-humph, a big review of inspection rules and regs coming into play shortly, july 1st. then the possible/likely creation of another mandated level of bureaucracy, hogs for a smaller word, to guarantee their take on whats right or wrong is enforced and complied with.  no way something like this is going to happen, NOT in my ontario anyway would this be allowed to happen. lol. this don't feel good guys. 



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shag766 wrote:
Klink wrote:

My local mechanic was at one of those meetings on the new safety check held by some association and came back with the feeling that the mto is going to privatize the safety check through said association something like the dealers association with a membership fee of a little over $500. He was not very happy about it.


 i don't see this as being a good thing at all. a make work project with another level of bureaucracy that is forced upon you much like the tssa or the local hospital boards and we can't forget mpac for your house tax's. about the only thing that these sort of arms length from government mandated bureaucracies accomplish is creating more reasons why they are needed to protect their mandated jobs and create more of them. i honestly don't know how we made it this far as a society before they were shoved on us. any or all common sense is usually the first thing out the window. remember, job security and more of them with a guaranteed income backed by the government mandated position.

as a for instance, a local independent refrigeration mechanic who has been in the trade and certified for approx 30 years who has a reputation of being one of the better/best ones in this area specializing primarily in commercial work. he installed and help design the largest refrigerated warehouse around here for a lot of miles, as an example, is hanging up his tool belt. tssa says he needs another certificate to solder pipe over 1.5 or 2", i think it is. he has been going through yearly audits since the inception of tssa and has passed with no problems and all of a sudden he needs another ticket to carry on his trade. i asked him about a grandfather clause and he said no it is a mandatory class room with a test. common sense out the window first. you older auto mechanics better get prepared for some sort of yearly audit cause these guys are trying to justify their jobs and create more of them and don't forget, protect me from you. i don't see no upside to any of this unless you think higher yearly lic fees and another level of hogs at a mandated trough is a good thing. if you do i guess maybe i might just need the protection.

-humph, a big review of inspection rules and regs coming into play shortly, july 1st. then the possible/likely creation of another mandated level of bureaucracy, hogs for a smaller word, to guarantee their take on whats right or wrong is enforced and complied with.  no way something like this is going to happen, NOT in my ontario anyway would this be allowed to happen. lol. this don't feel good guys. 


 Agreed Shag!!!

Yet when someone or folks like us come on board here to point out remedies/or the problems that need addressing on a way to stop or slow down such to hold these hogs accountable....

Some folks get all up in arm's ...perhaps they are retired governmental agents amongst us...

Perhaps some are just content to being blinded by deception served they're way by these hogs ,perhaps they like having masters due to lack of common sense....

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0180.html

Peace to all Regardless.






-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Saturday 28th of May 2016 10:56:30 AM



-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Saturday 28th of May 2016 10:59:38 AM

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ORANGEVILLE, ONT

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Most of what was gone over at the MTO meeting has been covered in previous posts.The presenter did say however that tire size limitations have been removed as long as they do not hinder steering action or rub against anything.The topic of a special certification for modified vehicles was raised and the MTO officer stated that there is great intrest in doing this somewhere down the road.



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www.change.org/p/the-honorable-steven-del-duca-ontario-minister-of-transportation-the-honorable-kathleen-wynne-premier-of-ontario-amend-changes-to-ontario-ministry-of-transportation-safety-standards-for-passenger-cars/u/14476282


New Ontario Safety Standards for vehicles coming
St. Lawrence News
By Brian Turner
SEE MOREarticles from this author
www.insidebrockville.com/opinion-story/6715787-new-ontario-safety-standards-for-vehicles-coming/
On July 1 of this year a totally revised set of regulations will come into effect covering the inspections of light trucks and passenger vehicles applying for an Ontario Safety Standard Certificate. These examinations (commonly referred to as a DOT), are required when used vehicles change ownership but as with existing rules, the new standards that are coming into effect can also be applied to currently licensed vehicles on the road if an MTO enforcement or police services officer finds something amiss during a routine roadside check.

The current regulations haven’t received a major update in decades while vehicle technology has advanced faster and faster at almost light-speed every year. It would surprise most motorists that current rules don’t recognize air-bags, anti-lock brakes, or hybrid drive systems for example that have been around for years.

First and foremost the most important thing for consumers to know about these inspections and the Safety Standards Certificates is that they are not a statement of warranty or attestation to the reliability of any vehicle. They are simply a recording of the condition of a set and specific number of components and systems on the vehicle at the moment of its inspection by a qualified and licensed technician. While the new rules encompass a very large number of areas not previously reported on, they don’t cover nearly everything that can go wrong with a vehicle.

For shoppers purchasing a pre-owned vehicle from a reputable, licensed and OMVIC (Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council) registered retailer, these new regulations won’t mean much of a change. Good and customer-friendly stores have always gone above and beyond the bare minimum standards when it comes to reconditioning and preparing used vehicles. Some in the industry were concerned that the new requirements for inspection and recording a variety of measurements would add considerable time (and therefore cost) to these processes, but the Ontario Ministry of Transportation has stated that in preliminary trials they completed with average repair shops, it only took about 10 minutes longer.

The new inspections will fail vehicles for a lot more than they used to for things such as weak shocks or struts, or an engine turbocharger with an oil leak. One item that’s sure to be a favourite with drivers who have been blinded by vehicles with modified headlamps is the outlawing of the use of High Intensity Discharge (HID) bulbs in lamps that were never designed to take them. New rules on window tinting will also limit the darkness of the tint to a spec that states it must allow 70 per cent of the light to transmit in or out. Inspection shops will need to obtain a tint meter for this and this particular rule won’t apply to any vehicle built before Jan. 1, 2017.

The regulations now carry very clear and easy to understand wording and definitions and if you are considering having an inspection done to an older vehicle, you might find them a worthwhile read. You can find the technician’s guide at mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/pdfs/passenger-light-duty-vehicle-inspection-standard.pdf.



If you have any questions, opinions, or stories on anything automotive please drop me a line, [By email to emc@perfprint.ca or directly to bjoeturner@hotmail.com listing ‘Question for the Car Counselor’ on the subject line or by post to Record News Communications, 65 Lorne St., P.O. Box 158, Smiths Falls, Ont. K7A 4T1]. When using regular mail, please supply a phone number if you seek direct contact (due to volume I can’t always promise replies.



-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Sunday 3rd of July 2016 11:10:57 AM

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WATERFORD, ONT

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fuel gauge needs to work for a reading because if a tank leaks most people will bring it in at say   1/4 tank so no leaks the mechanic doesn't know it leaks and isn't going to fill your tank up for you, so if the driver is pulled over and has a leaky tank they cant say well it just passed a safety...  the blame would normally fall back on the mechanic/shop now the people cant lie as easily.

 



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If the purpose of this was to drive the little guys out it's working. Word is a lot guys are done with safeties. My bud bought all the new equipment, did a few safeties and now he says he's done. He says he wont waste the time.

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Well  I have been emailing MTO even got threw to head office. Which I sent a picture of Bucket to and please don't want to argue or fight about what I got told .First he said no fenders no safety [AND HE SAID WINDSHIELD MUST BE APPROVED]  which it is .Than he said glass must have a safety standards cut in it to prove shatter quality on any glass  . Also wipers /washers [nothing about hand operated wipers] so electric pass .Than must have a working defrosting system .Seat belts no longer allowed to say if didn't come equipped not needed ,they than must be installed and worn . No longer is there any reference to or about kit cars ,which he said mine should be registered as Not a 23 Ford .Bumpers also are to be mounted [I told him my wife's Fusion has none ] he said  not to compare apples to oranges . Finally  he explained saying things like no front brakes /wipers/seat belts /fenders never came on a certain year no longer applies he said every system listed and applies [no air bags than not needed to be approved  and  must use PASSENGER/LIGHT DUTY VEHICLE INSPECTION STANDARDS  .I have his email bob.lickers@ontario.ca  he was the head person who wrote the rules .And the Minister email is sdelduca.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org lives in Woodbridge and is MPP FOR Vanughn Again don't shoot the messenger only relaying what I got told. The local MTO scale rep said [QUOTE I Don't have an answer as far as getting your car legally on the road let me know what you get told ] Again it seems they want to just confuse everyone. Also the MTO Rep [inspector] said we are not told to give any of the hot rodders and ruff time ,and don't get into pollution enforcement .The Police are the ones to watch out for. Thanks again



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Bill


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Bill... I'm not going to 'argue or fight' with you but I learned long ago not to ask any government official [ including cops]what I can or can not do to a modified car. As hot rodders they love to tell us what we can't do and offer no solutions and as hot rodders we are often in a 'grey area'. They have been trying to legislate us out of existence since the 40's and while it is getting tougher there always seams to be a way to get a safety. If I were in your predicament I would ask guys with similar cars in your area who will safety a T bucket with a minimum of hassle. I'm not going to list ways on a public forum but I know of 6 or 7 hot rods that have gotten safeties since the new legislation came into effect and they didn't make all the modifications you have listed to comply. The legislation to get a safety is not the same as the 'highway Traffic Act although they will say it is . The so called 'fender law' is a prime example. Good luck.

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Bob T


ESSEX, ONT

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Yes BOB I also know of a few that got safeties without fenders and yes in fact I can get my bucket passed if going in my name but not to sell it .But all I was saying is why should we have to go to only certain Inspection Stations who look the other way or a favor . After all if these safeties are being written legal than like you said won't list on a public forum that isn't right   . The thing I want is to be able to take my bucket in any station and be told what legally is needed to sell it without the buyer being taken off the road . What we need is say a certain station to step up and say we did/or do safeties on Hot Rods and these are the things needed  not underground shops  sneaking around  . Than I will get my bucket certified and will get my price . See what happens if those 6-7 vehicle's or stations get audited  . Again not arguing just get it out in open as we should able to have a set of guidelines      THE      BEST   what I need/want is to be able to take my bucket in to any [yes any] Safety Inspection Station in Essex County area and have the owner or inspector person tell me what is needed to pass the MTO standards .Because I have 3 interested buyers that have the money [close to my 18 grand] if I can get the vehicle to pass a inspection [not a quickie ]will buy it .But every place except one has turned it down saying to old or don't do hot rods sum who have written other Buckets like mine for they re customers  and that one lets say is off shore operated hope not to offend just fact.



-- Edited by bubba390 on Monday 19th of December 2016 01:48:42 PM

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Bill


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bubba390 wrote:

Yes BOB I also know of a few that got safeties without fenders and yes in fact I can get my bucket passed if going in my name but not to sell it .But all I was saying is why should we have to go to only certain Inspection Stations who look the other way or a favor . After all if these safeties are being written legal than like you said won't list on a public forum that isn't right   . The thing I want is to be able to take my bucket in any station and be told what legally is needed to sell it without the buyer being taken off the road . What we need is say a certain station to step up and say we did/or do safeties on Hot Rods and these are the things needed  not underground shops  sneaking around  . Than I will get my bucket certified and will get my price . See what happens if those 6-7 vehicle's or stations get audited  . Again not arguing just get it out in open as we should able to have a set of guidelines      THE      BEST   what I need/want is to be able to take my bucket in to any [yes any] Safety Inspection Station in Essex County area and have the owner or inspector person tell me what is needed to pass the MTO standards .Because I have 3 interested buyers that have the money [close to my 18 grand] if I can get the vehicle to pass a inspection [not a quickie ]will buy it .But every place except one has turned it down saying to old or don't do hot rods sum who have written other Buckets like mine for they re customers  and that one lets say is off shore operated hope not to offend just fact.



-- Edited by bubba390 on Monday 19th of December 2016 01:48:42 PM


 As a licensed tech no way would I have safetied a hotrod for just any one who walked into my shop and said they were selling the car. Way too many bad possibilities there.

If it was me selling your car to someone you don't know and they want it safetied, I would have it done at the shop of the buyers choosing. Even if that means spending a couple hundred bucks to have trailered there.

If the car is worth 18K whats a couple hundred off the price?

Phoning cops or MTO etc asking for advice is just asking for trouble.

 

 



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Thanks MIKE and sure thing have it done at the shop of the buyer's choice great idea. That shop or others won't do these types of Safeties . SO  lets say you own my car and want to sell  it  and have 3 buyers wanting it ,but need it safe tied legal one .And every garage refuses to say what is needed let alone look at it. I ALSO am a Licensed mechanic that owned a safety inspection station, doing over 200 inspections , also did inspections of Hot Rods but closed that part of my shop  .But since 2015 new rules now has changed .So what no one seems to understand is not about money it is about getting a fully legal safety inspection done on a T Bucket  .So you only do inspections of customers buying cars not selling them ?.Again this is so far off my question it was asked , I asked MTO to see what is needed .   Thanks



-- Edited by bubba390 on Monday 19th of December 2016 04:53:04 PM

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Bill


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I got out of the trade in May and refuse to go back into it. 30 years is more enough. Long story, short of is I was sick to death of it but I didn't quit and my personal record was clean. If we meet I may fill in the details.
Last place I worked was a dealership.
You will never get a full legal safety on a vehicle with no fenders, either old reg or new, period. Do you want a safety certificate or do want the car to meet all the regulations.
Yes that's my truck in my avatar and I have been driving it all over since 2010.
If the new owner wants the car but won't even help to find a shop that will safety it knowing that it needs fenders etc but will never have them he doesn't really want the car.




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ESSEX, ONT

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I want a legal honest safety so buyer can drive it and installing fenders threw January and to-day buyers with 17 grand expect the seller to supply all the needed stuff and shouldn't have to find a Safety .Other wise I get offered low ball money when they get it as is .And I want a list from MTO to at least show safety stations what is needed . My reading of new rules shows needs defroster /wipers/washers/and belts /safety glass and bumpers /fenders .Just going threw the 2015 rules .Than need a Station agree thanks

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Bill


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I would never compromise on a safety item and have no further comments other than you have a lot of work to do based your conversations with the MTO. Again good luck.

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Yes BOB I agree but what is so sad that MTO and all inspection stations can't/won't answer as far as needed regulations to legally inspect and pass a vehicle .Yet this summer we will see new builds driving around car shows with no fenders or wipers .All I see is the new rules are not only a waste of our money & time but screwed up what was needed fixing . Well enough on this post /subject because I will get the items fixed I listed Seat belts in already and will get a Safety in my name. Than drive it until a buyer steps up AS IS .So again time to start fixing for spring .One guy offered 15 grand and maybe he will stand by the amount AS IS than done with hot rods

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Bill


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Just went on Kijiji and typed in 1921-1932 Ford and found close to 10 Hot Rods from 14-45 grand all with no fenders for sale or trade and not one lists coming with a SAFETY . GUESS they all know a new rule or think buyers are going to put out that much money with out a Safety ????? MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone

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Bill


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Everything about this hobby is a gray area. Don't did too deep into stuff because you won't like the answers you'll get. We've run in the gray areas before, and we will in the future. The "system" is designed this way.

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Well this was what I just got told by a local MTO inspector on the phone yesterday . Things like old cars no longer are exempt from having Seat Belts [where it used to say if not equipped didn't need them or wear them ] in stead it says seat belts must be installed properly [if missing fails].He said the MTO wants seat belts in all cars/trucks as simple as that .And wipers with washers must also be on the vehicle in working condition and tested .And read the defroster section that must be installed and clearly cleans front glass and side glass if the side glass is in the car so a 12 volt item is legal that blows heated air .He said it is as simple as reading each section .Fenders are clear so any T Buckets or Rat rods being sold need them just go on Kijiji and ask the sellers if the car comes with safety and not on ONE COMES with one in fact they answer you saying it will pass easy No where is anything saying any certain year doesn't need these things. So please read the NEW RULES like he said to do. He said he agreed that it will take sum time to .Again please don't shoot the messenger E Mail  I forgot the last thing he said was MTO wants all cars to be equally safe EG being the belts they are not trying to punish any certain car group instead they are trying to have everyone safe . He said like talking on a Cell phone while driving in a 2015 car and doing the same in a 1917 rules are going to be equal AND he referred to section Missing  and read last part OR IS REQUIRED FOR NORMAL AND SAFE VEHICLE OPERATION  that he said covers the sections saying the items above are needed  Happy New Year



-- Edited by bubba390 on Saturday 31st of December 2016 12:00:53 PM



-- Edited by bubba390 on Saturday 31st of December 2016 12:24:04 PM

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Bill


ESSEX, ONT

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this is Who wrote the new rules email   bob.lickers@ontario.ca   he needs everyone to send him a email  



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Bill


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Quit asking MTO what will or wont pass. He's just gonna tell you the way he interprets the rules. Ask the person that will be certifying the car what he wants to see. You'll never get a straight answer from the Government.

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I Can't get any garage to write a Safety in Essex County  maybe you have a underground garage or buddy that just hands them out but not around here .All  these  garages  say  quote  since the rules changed in July 2016 we can't inspect these cars because we are not sure what is needed to pass  .Maybe your area it is easy but not here  Thanks for reply  



-- Edited by bubba390 on Wednesday 4th of January 2017 06:07:07 PM

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Bill


ORANGEVILLE, ONT

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I just looked on the Ministry of Transport Ontario website,it states that seatbelts are not required on vehicles manufactured prior to 1974.Unless this is changed I can not see a safety being denied because of a lack of seatbelts.Personaly I think they should be installed,your chances of survival greatly increase if you are not thrown out of the vehicle.My 56 has had seatbelts for a number of years.



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PLEASE read Section # 8  # 15  in  the above Safety rules as of July 2016  overrides past rules .Please not arguing just reading what is written   again thanks for reply



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Bill


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bubba390 wrote:

PLEASE read Section # 8  # 15  in  the above Safety rules as of July 2016  overrides past rules .Please not arguing just reading what is written   again thanks for reply


 So what you're saying is any car manufactured prior to seat belt laws, will not pass a safety ? That's not the case.

If your mechanic wants seat belts put in for him to certify it, then put some seat belts in and be done with it. 

Edit;

I re-read section 8 paragraph 15, and here's what it says;

A- missing or not equipped at each seating position as originally required to meet applicable CMVSS 

Therefore a vehicle built without seat belts (1967 or older I believe) does not require seatbelts because  that vehicle met the Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (MVSS) at the time of manufacturing.

 



-- Edited by Petebil on Wednesday 4th of January 2017 07:48:15 PM

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