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MARKHAM, ONT

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Yes, Paris Is Banning Cars Built Before 1997

 

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/05/paris-is-banning-cars-built-before-1997/484895/

 

If your car was built before 1997, don’t even think about driving it into Paris after this month. From July 1, the French capital will ban vehicles older than 19 years from driving in the city on workdays. Motorcycles will face yet tighter restrictions, with a driving ban on all two-wheeled motor vehicles made before 2000. Anyone caught driving an older vehicle will face a fine whose potential severity ranges from modest (€35) to biting (€450). While these vehicles will still be allowed on the roads before 8 a.m. and after 8 p.m., and without restriction on weekends, the new rules represent some of the toughest restrictions on drivers yet introduced by a European city.  

The new ban may be strict, but it sits quite comfortably among a host of emissions-slashing rules brought in recently by the city of Paris. Following huge build-ups of pollutants during winter 2014, the city introduced temporary car bans until levels started to abate. After some demonstrable success in improving appalling air quality in this way, Paris has gone on to introduce occasional periodic driving bans for such hotspots as the Champs Élysées. What’s more, the upcoming ban on pre-1997 vehicles will be further tightened in the near future. In 2020, any car made before 2010 will be banned from daytime driving, while the weekday ban will also be extended to 24-hours.

It may be tempting to paint Paris as a lone eco-warrior, fighting pollution levels that at times have been among the worst in the world. But the new ban rests substantially on anti-pollution action taken at the national level in France—action that has actually been watered down thanks to pressure from Paris’s mayor, among others. The upcoming old-car ban in fact relies on a new national system of classifying cars according to their emissions levels. Starting July 1, French cars will be grouped into six categories depending on the degree of pollution they create. Drivers can then apply to receive a display disc for their windshield. Such discs (which are free for the next 6 months, and €5 after) won’t as yet be compulsory across France, though drivers of zero and very-low emitting vehicles will get some occasional perks (such as priority parking) that make applying worth their while.

The new windshield discs will, however, be obligatory in Paris, where the most polluting of the six categories (all vehicles registered before December 31, 1996) will face the weekday ban. If anything, the new categories could have been tighter. Originally, the national plan was to divide cars into four categories rather than six, in order to place restrictions on the most polluting fourth. In Paris, this could have meant up to 10 percent of the city’s private vehicle fleet being forced off the roads, a radical change liable to cause an uncomfortable backlash. Mayors from Paris, Versailles and Grenoble thus petitioned (successfully) for the diluted, more nuanced system being brought in this July.

The new rules will still affect up to 30,000 vehicles currently registered in Paris. The moves won’t be popular with everyone (and will likely affect people on lower incomes more) but Paris’s political structure has arguably helped it achieve greater acceptance. As a mayor governing only the 2.2 million citizens living in the historic core of Paris’s wider metro area, Anne Hidalgo is answerable to an electorate who already rely substantially on public transit and who suffer more than most the long-term effects of car commuter-related pollution. It may be a jolt for older vehicle owners, but Paris seems to be ready for change.

 

 



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Livetodrive wrote:

Yes, Paris Is Banning Cars Built Before 1997

 

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/05/paris-is-banning-cars-built-before-1997/484895/

 

If your car was built before 1997, don’t even think about driving it into Paris after this month. From July 1, the French capital will ban vehicles older than 19 years from driving in the city on workdays. Motorcycles will face yet tighter restrictions, with a driving ban on all two-wheeled motor vehicles made before 2000. Anyone caught driving an older vehicle will face a fine whose potential severity ranges from modest (€35) to biting (€450). While these vehicles will still be allowed on the roads before 8 a.m. and after 8 p.m., and without restriction on weekends, the new rules represent some of the toughest restrictions on drivers yet introduced by a European city.  

The new ban may be strict, but it sits quite comfortably among a host of emissions-slashing rules brought in recently by the city of Paris. Following huge build-ups of pollutants during winter 2014, the city introduced temporary car bans until levels started to abate. After some demonstrable success in improving appalling air quality in this way, Paris has gone on to introduce occasional periodic driving bans for such hotspots as the Champs Élysées. What’s more, the upcoming ban on pre-1997 vehicles will be further tightened in the near future. In 2020, any car made before 2010 will be banned from daytime driving, while the weekday ban will also be extended to 24-hours.

It may be tempting to paint Paris as a lone eco-warrior, fighting pollution levels that at times have been among the worst in the world. But the new ban rests substantially on anti-pollution action taken at the national level in France—action that has actually been watered down thanks to pressure from Paris’s mayor, among others. The upcoming old-car ban in fact relies on a new national system of classifying cars according to their emissions levels. Starting July 1, French cars will be grouped into six categories depending on the degree of pollution they create. Drivers can then apply to receive a display disc for their windshield. Such discs (which are free for the next 6 months, and €5 after) won’t as yet be compulsory across France, though drivers of zero and very-low emitting vehicles will get some occasional perks (such as priority parking) that make applying worth their while.

The new windshield discs will, however, be obligatory in Paris, where the most polluting of the six categories (all vehicles registered before December 31, 1996) will face the weekday ban. If anything, the new categories could have been tighter. Originally, the national plan was to divide cars into four categories rather than six, in order to place restrictions on the most polluting fourth. In Paris, this could have meant up to 10 percent of the city’s private vehicle fleet being forced off the roads, a radical change liable to cause an uncomfortable backlash. Mayors from Paris, Versailles and Grenoble thus petitioned (successfully) for the diluted, more nuanced system being brought in this July.

The new rules will still affect up to 30,000 vehicles currently registered in Paris. The moves won’t be popular with everyone (and will likely affect people on lower incomes more) but Paris’s political structure has arguably helped it achieve greater acceptance. As a mayor governing only the 2.2 million citizens living in the historic core of Paris’s wider metro area, Anne Hidalgo is answerable to an electorate who already rely substantially on public transit and who suffer more than most the long-term effects of car commuter-related pollution. It may be a jolt for older vehicle owners, but Paris seems to be ready for change.

 

 Yeah read this the other day...Questions come to mind...What about cars that are upgraded to newer drivelines/ what about cars that have rebuilt engines an pass an emissions test /what about older cars say like our hemi road runner with cadillac converters added / say what they will this wont go through...An if it does there will be lots who dont comply.

Ever follow an older car. Bottom lines is they stink ,however when you add cats to the older ones they do not!!!

Law full excuse ...Look it up!

Equality is paramount in law...No equality written in that document,Therefore it's of no force nor effect.


 





-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Friday 3rd of June 2016 08:05:33 AM



-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Friday 3rd of June 2016 08:07:49 AM

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MARKHAM, ONT

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I find it ironic that you quote a French nationalist from 1894 in support of your point, his name was Anatole and the quote was actually "All are equal before the law.'  As for converters, surely you don't believe that they can somehow effectively address cold start emissions and evaporation HC's?  I'm as passionate about old cars as anyone but lets resist the temptation to say a simple bolt on will allow my big block to emit unicorn farts!   



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I find it ironic that you quote a French nationalist from 1894 in support of your point, his name was Anatole and the quote was actually "All are equal before the law.'





According to the Supreme Court of Canada's Section 15 jurisprudence, the equality guarantees of section 15 are aimed at preventing the "violation of essential human dignity and freedom through the imposition of disadvantage, stereotyping, or political and social prejudices, and to promote a society in which all persons enjoy equal recognition at law as human beings or as members of Canadian society, equally capable and equally deserving of concern, respect and consideration." (Iacobucci J. in Law v. Canada, [1999])

To that end, the Charter recognizes four dimensions of equality, including substantive equality.

Equality before the law is equality in the administration of justice, where all individuals are subject to the same criminal laws in the same manner by law enforcement and the courts.
Equality under the law is equality in the substance of the law, where the content of the law is equal and fair to everyone so that everyone experiences the same result.
Equal benefit of the law ensures that benefits imposed by law will be proportionate.
Equal protection of the law ensure that the protections imposed by law will be proportionate so that the human dignity of every person is equally safeguarded by the law.

Unlike formal equality, which overlooks personal differences, substantive equality is concerned with the impact of the law on different groups of individuals. Substantive equality requires that there be an equal impact on the person affected by the law.

"All are equal before the law.' As for converters, surely you don't believe that they can somehow effectively address cold start emissions and evaporation HC's? I'm as passionate about old cars as anyone but lets resist the temptation to say a simple bolt on will allow my big block to emit unicorn farts! = Not an issue when it runs on propane = catalyticexhaust.ca/product/propane-exhaust-purifiers

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Fair point, but one may argue that there is an obligation to the masses to provide air that is breathable.  Banning R-12 and the Japanese restrictions on how long public vehicles can remain on the road have set a precedent.  For clarity, I think we all like old cars but we all like to breath as well so there is a contradiction.  I see a large number of posts apposing the new regulations on fluid leaks however I have not seen anyone concerned that 1 liter of "dripped" oil can contaminate 1 million liters of drinking water.  Rubber dust from worn tires is the 13th (from memory) leading cause of air pollution in LA and it can make its way deep into the lungs of small children playing outside.  Is the long term impact going to be the same as asbestos in our generation?    As a technician myself I find it offensive when someone posts that all old cars leak.  Perhaps if we as a group of hobbyists had been more responsible we would not need regulations to force us to repair/maintain things?  As for propane, its come a long way since the 80's I'll give you that, but it is still a byproduct of oil/natural gas refinement.  It falls well short of the definition of a renewable energy source.  Not trying to ruffle your feathers but hoping this legislation go away or that people will ignore it, misses the basic fact that this is what the majority of citizens want.  As a group, i think we would be better off investing our time coming up with ways to make our hobby more "friendly" before we need a big brother to step in.  As I said in my opening, "This is Interesting".  Not right, not wrong, just interesting.

 

Thanks!  



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Livetodrive wrote:

  As a group, i think we would be better off investing our time coming up with ways to make our hobby more "friendly" before we need a big brother to step in.  

 

Thanks!  


 Looks like you're in the wrong hobby then. Why don't you give us some examples how to make it more "friendly"? Older engines do leak and do waste fuel because of their inherited design, and the only way to make them more friendly is to replace them with something newer. The problem is that the Liberal Government you voted in is making this difficult  by legally forcing us to use all emission controls that came with the new engine. Most people don't want the hassle and don't want the risk of having their cars yanked off the road because they're missing a few emission components. Regardless, our hobby has zero impact on the environment because we're so few in numbers. All this "green" talk is BS anyway, and is just another way for Governments and big businesses to rape your wallet.

I look at the world as a big swimming pool. We could sacrifice everything to be perfectly clean on our end, but on the other end you have China and India pissing and $hitting in theirs.

 



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MARKHAM, ONT

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Petebil,

 

LOL, performance has always been my hobby but in my experience efficiency plays a huge role in performance.  Lower emissions are a byproduct.  Try looking at it this way, the average enthusiast throws in a cam, headers, an intake, sets timing by ear and mabey changes jets to get rid of a drive ability problem.  I used to do the same and I was rarely ahppy with the end result.  He then goes to the cruise night with a car that smells like hell, makes eyes water and is pumping out 6% CO and 1500ppm hydrocarbon.  = gross polluter  Now I go about it a bit differently.  I bought a gas analyzer, set the fuel an timing curve to match the new components and enjoy better performance, cooler running and better gas milage.  My 440 in a Challenger scored 17 MPG on a trip from Pickering to Vegas.  I've also done the same rear main 5 times to get it to seal up, thank you mother mopar! I look at oil leaks like brake failure, if your brake lines leaked would you just drive it?  Crap, steaks are burning, gotta go.    



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Livetodrive wrote:

Petebil,

 

LOL, performance has always been my hobby but in my experience efficiency plays a huge role in performance.  Lower emissions are a byproduct.  Try looking at it this way, the average enthusiast throws in a cam, headers, an intake, sets timing by ear and mabey changes jets to get rid of a drive ability problem.  I used to do the same and I was rarely ahppy with the end result.  He then goes to the cruise night with a car that smells like hell, makes eyes water and is pumping out 6% CO and 1500ppm hydrocarbon.  = gross polluter  Now I go about it a bit differently.  I bought a gas analyzer, set the fuel an timing curve to match the new components and enjoy better performance, cooler running and better gas milage.  My 440 in a Challenger scored 17 MPG on a trip from Pickering to Vegas.  I've also done the same rear main 5 times to get it to seal up, thank you mother mopar! I look at oil leaks like brake failure, if your brake lines leaked would you just drive it?  Crap, steaks are burning, gotta go.    


 The point I'm trying to make is if you put a 6.4 in that Challenger, you would get 25 MPG and the exhaust would be 100 times cleaner than that 440, but if you forget to add the charcoal canister (which wouldn't work with a pre 71 tank anyway) you're looking at hefty fines even though you're running much cleaner.



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MARKHAM, ONT

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No argument on the 6.4 being cleaner but if you are going to do the swap why not do it right.  The original Challenger has a vented gas cap which means it spews hydrocarbons all the time stinks up your garage and leaves your family smelly like a gas pump when you go out for ice cream.  On a hot day, thats over 3000 ppm HC even when its turned off.  If I'm going to the trouble to modify the tank for an electric pump, why not install the evap system and use the PCM to run/monitor it all with the OBD II plug.  If something goes wrong, I even get the advantage of trouble codes and freeze frame data to help me diagnose.  I did put an evap system on my Challenger to get rid of the fuel smell on hot days, very happy with it.  Be clear, tuning and emissions are not my religion but they are my profession.  I invested the time and money to get my certs for both Ontario and ASE.  I'd like to believe that if people were a little more responsible about vehicle ownership, we would not need so many laws.  I may be a fool.  Every day, I see cars brought in with a check engine light on, that has been on for months.  If the car still runs they drive the damn thing, to me that is both stupid and irresponsible as well as illegal.  I get that people enjoy working on cars but you have to do it right.

On the bigger scheme, I don't think an outright ban will be an issue for us here.  If anything, I think the insurance companies will pose the biggest threat.  I was dealing with one company that required an annual safety an my Challenger to maintain coverage (over 25 years old), not a problem for me as I am a tech and can do the work but a hassle non the less.  I also heard a rumor at a trade show, as yet unsupported, that the insurance bureau in BC is proposing a bill to void coverage if a DIY repair contributes to the accident.  (The example I heard was a wheel fly's off after someone does there own brakes).  If I can find some proof on this one I'll post it for all.  That would definitely strike at the heart of the classic hobby and I'm very concerned what it would do to the value of my cars.  I've got quite a lot invested in my iron and when I'm done enjoying each car, I have to count on getting a good chunk back or I could not afford it.  Meantime, if I can answer anyone's questions about this stuff, I'll certainly try.  I also still do some training but it mostly newer stuff now.           



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And while all this is going on Al Gore promotes a clean globe.......while circling it in his personal jet dumping yons of chit in the skies above us all. Petebil is right. It's all Bullchit, taxes and Communism......

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Livetodrive wrote:

  Banning R-12 and the Japanese restrictions on how long public vehicles can remain on the road have set a precedent.  


 I have a few pounds of R12 in a large canister if someone can dispose of it in a responsible manner they are welcome to it free of charge?  In return, I am capable of safety disposing of 6 Coors light in the aluminum bottles.  Perhaps we can help each other?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

 So let me get this right. On one thread you agree that banning fluorocarbons like R-12 is a good thing because of it's ozone depleting properties, but then on another thread you're willing to trade this banned substance to some unknown source for a few cans of beer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like the words of a hypocrite. If you were truly concerned about that product being disposed of in a proper manner, you would take it to an appropriate recycling facility. 



-- Edited by Petebil on Sunday 5th of June 2016 09:35:25 AM

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MARKHAM, ONT

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I don't remember stating that the laws are right or wrong, if complaining about the laws of society enriches your life have at it but its not my thing!  If its something I'm passionate about I get involved BEFORE it becomes law.  For clarity, I posted something I found about "Your Car and Legal Issues" for your review.  I then explained what I do and how I've made it work to my advantage and if anyone is interested I'd be glad to show them how they can make it work.  In the spirit of this forum (sharing knowledge and experience) If you are anywhere near Pickering I'll bring a mobile gas analyzer to your location and sniff your car/truck for free.  I'll tell you what I would recommend tuning wise and sniff it again afterwards to demonstrate the improvement for HC/CO.   

If no one wants the R-12, it will go to recycle I assure you.  I am at a complete loss how a discussion about vehicle tuning suddenly involves taxes and communism, and frankly, if you want someone to fight with you gots the wrong guy.  If you are interested in this stuff, I'm happy to share over 30 years of experience.  Truce? 



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ONTARIO

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Sorry Mr Eliot, wasn't trying to start a war, just spouting off.

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Spouting off is never a bad thing, no apology needed.  My offer stands if you ever feel inclined to visit the dark side, ok?



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ONTARIO

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Thanks for the understanding - and the offer.

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Ontario expands natural gas refuelling sites
ntario-expands-natural-gas-refuelling-sites/">www.durhamregion.com/news-story/671036ntario-expands-natural-gas-refuelling-sites/
TORONTO — Ontario will spend up to $100 million to help natural gas suppliers create more fuelling stations to encourage more trucks to use the fuel instead of diesel or gasoline.

The Canadian Press has learned the move to expand the use of natural gas as a fuel for trucks will be part of the Liberal government's action plan on climate change, which will be released Wednesday.

Sources say there is some interest in the trucking industry for a switch to natural gas, but truckers want to see a province-wide network of fuelling stations.

The sources also say the action plan will not call for a ban or phasing-out of natural gas or any other fossil fuels for home heating as reported earlier.

Natural gas is used to heat more than three-quarters of the homes in Ontario, and critics had warned that phasing it out would drive up energy costs for everyone.

Provincial experts believe a steady rise in the price of natural gas as governments put a price on carbon will eventually prompt homeowners and builders to look for cheaper, cleaner alternatives, so they see no need to ban fossil fuels for home heating.

The sources say the province will offer incentives when homeowners are ready to install alternatives such as geo-thermal or heat pump systems, and point out no one is talking about a return to old-fashioned electric baseboard heaters.

They say the idea is to give consumers a choice, not to force them into making changes, and the Liberals will be ready with financial support when homeowners decide on their own to switch to cleaner alternatives.

The province already announced the climate change action plan will include $100 million to help municipalities recover methane from landfills, green bins, manure and sewage treatment plants and turn it into so-called renewable natural gas.

The plan will also include $900 million to retrofit social housing and apartment buildings with such things as energy-efficient windows and thermal insulation on pipes.

Ontario will implement a cap-and-trade system for greenhouse gas emissions as the other part of its plan to address climate change, and expects that will add about $5 a month to home heating bills and about 4.3 cents a litre to the price of gasoline.

The Liberal government hopes to raise $1.9 billion a year from joining a cap-and-trade plan with California and Quebec, which will allow industrial polluters to buy extra emission credits if necessary or sell emission credits that they don't use.

The government has promised all of that money will be spent on initiatives that help individuals, companies and municipalities adapt to new cleaner technologies that will reduce their carbon footprint.

Ontario's goal is to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by 15 per cent from 1990 levels by 2020, by 37 per cent in 2030 and by 80 per cent in 2050.



By Keith Leslie, The Canadian Press
|

(2) Comment
By wayne | JUNE 07, 2016 08:11 AM
what a load of crap. 1) climate change is natural but put that aside by switching from diesel to natural gas you reduce C02 but increase methane which is 4 times more heat retaining actually increasing the greenhouse gases. But hey don't let that stop them from taxing us into poverty

By Centennial67 | JUNE 07, 2016 08:09 AM
So the lib planis to force up the price of electricity and natural gas, so people will see that solar, wind and geo are more affordable alternatives? Affordable for who' pocketbook? Steal from peter and give to paul? the taxpayer is going to be forced to like the "alternatives". What govt forgets is that people will eventually say enough and give them their walking papers. In the grand scheme of things, on a global scale Canada and Ontario have very little effect on the elephant in the room : GHG. But govts here want the people to suffer. Wynne and co will go down in Ontario history as the worst leader and govt ever.

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Iwannagofast wrote:

And while all this is going on Al Gore promotes a clean globe.......while circling it in his personal jet dumping yons of chit in the skies above us all. Petebil is right. It's all Bullchit, taxes and Communism......


 Mopar collector guide did a whole article on scientific research of effects of globe warming an Al gore an the way the man actually lives.....yes he was exposed as a fraud.

http://moparcollectorsguide.com/mcgnewcart/

In such article it was proven that our old cars are just 1% of the entire issue...An was nothing short of a cash grab to pull older cars from the road in order to support their fake economy to sell new,To keep you working an fed..

However what ever happened to folks growing they're own food? So many rely on the grocery store.(spewing gas or diesel fumes to get there), Which in turn will take half you're hard earned liberties just 2 eat=Do you see a problem???

Then there's Gmo poison on you're plates.

 

Does science lie???

 

Are newer cars running cleaner -you bet ya... Can an older engine built right run as clean= eye believe so. The old drive clean program proved such=However as livetodrive mentions it takes knowledge an some work to achieve such.

 

Most are just to lazy or lack the knowledge...Should old cars leak oil ?/= NO,there is no excuse for oil leaks/fluids ...

You ever watched miller paving pave a road an spray raw diesel fuel all over the back of the dump trucks to stop the mat from sticking...[just too wash such off in a ditch afterwards :( ]

You ever been on a job site an watch the fuel companies refuel eqt,it's an eye opener as the lead hand turns a blind eye!!!

Nearly all heavy eqt is a design fail when it comes to refueling such...There is a lack of tec given the world today there's no excuse for such.







-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Tuesday 7th of June 2016 02:28:02 PM

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Wow!  If you have time this afternoon perhaps we could take a stab at world hunger?  LOL, thanks for sharing.



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Livetodrive wrote:

Wow!  If you have time this afternoon perhaps we could take a stab at world hunger?  LOL, thanks for sharing.


 If  Katherine Winn has it her way ...We or our offspring will be eating at soup kitchen's while folks sit back an let it happen...

Remember WHO MADE WHO   http://www.azvideos.com/videos/acdc/whomadewho.html

If Trudeau wants 2 have any kind of future standing he had better axe the [bitch!!!!]

If Pierre was still alive would he punch his kid in the face ? or kick him in the nutz??? Eye think so!!!!!!

 

Oh an feeding the less fortunate is a great idea,Giving such folks change or monies at a traffic light don't cut it....,How are ya to know where the monies went? Putting food in they're belly or pay n for them to have a shower or afford a hair cut or shave, To perhaps seek work or go to a job interview[or just to feel human again] would make a world of differences NO???? LoL...

 

For another thread Perhaps....



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Don't know how it is now, but several years ago, I had a truck that ran on gas/natural gas, and it was the most gutless thing on NG. Once you got up to speed, it was economical, but had to take off on gasoline.

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Our garden is about an acre. Our oldest son is well versed in " renewable energies", ( actually teaches it in College) so he's up to speed on how to become self reliant. We heat primarily with wood, house and shop, gas is the back-up. Again, our oldest ran a test-project at home creating methane from garbage to heat/cook with. If the curtain falls at least we will be able to eat, keep warm and read at night.

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parklane wrote:

Don't know how it is now, but several years ago, I had a truck that ran on gas/natural gas, and it was the most gutless thing on NG. Once you got up to speed, it was economical, but had to take off on gasoline.


 Sounds like the engine was in need of a rebuild or had burned valves.

Glad to hear that you at least reaped the benefits of better economical travel.



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Iwannagofast wrote:

Our garden is about an acre. Our oldest son is well versed in " renewable energies", ( actually teaches it in College) so he's up to speed on how to become self reliant. We heat primarily with wood, house and shop, gas is the back-up. Again, our oldest ran a test-project at home creating methane from garbage to heat/cook with. If the curtain falls at least we will be able to eat, keep warm and read at night.


 Did you know you can run a furnace from spent septic tank gases...

Will see if i can dig up the article from our archives...[with blueprints]

You're son seems well educated ..Happy growing.



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Bunch of hog wash!!!!!
Who voted for these ????
Bend over

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/wynne-climate-change-1.3621658

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Ground Pounder wrote:
Iwannagofast wrote:

Our garden is about an acre. Our oldest son is well versed in " renewable energies", ( actually teaches it in College) so he's up to speed on how to become self reliant. We heat primarily with wood, house and shop, gas is the back-up. Again, our oldest ran a test-project at home creating methane from garbage to heat/cook with. If the curtain falls at least we will be able to eat, keep warm and read at night.


 Did you know you can run a furnace from spent septic tank gases...

Will see if i can dig up the article from our archives...[with blueprints]

You're son seems well educated ..Happy growing.


 I wasn't aware Bob, I look forward to the article. I do know the Regional Gov't down here partnered up with a local business to extract methane from a couple buried dumps which is used to create electricity. 

Then there are a couple Greenhouse growers using digesters to break down plant products, creating gas which when burnt heats water, making steam for heat and also to drive a turbine making electricity. The final product is organic compost. Win Win.

We have a couple wells on our properties. Our son was going to use one for passive heating/cooling. After pumping it dry to measure the flow rate - it stayed dry. Seems when our neighbor ( Cherry Hill Gardens retirement development - yeah, I have a lot of pain-in-the-ass neighbors) excavated to extend their Clubhouse and install a pool, they severed the aquifer. So much for that well.



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Iwannagofast wrote:
Ground Pounder wrote:
Iwannagofast wrote:

Our garden is about an acre. Our oldest son is well versed in " renewable energies", ( actually teaches it in College) so he's up to speed on how to become self reliant. We heat primarily with wood, house and shop, gas is the back-up. Again, our oldest ran a test-project at home creating methane from garbage to heat/cook with. If the curtain falls at least we will be able to eat, keep warm and read at night.


 Did you know you can run a furnace from spent septic tank gases...

Will see if i can dig up the article from our archives...[with blueprints]

You're son seems well educated ..Happy growing.


 I wasn't aware Bob, I look forward to the article. I do know the Regional Gov't down here partnered up with a local business to extract methane from a couple buried dumps which is used to create electricity. 

Then there are a couple Greenhouse growers using digesters to break down plant products, creating gas which when burnt heats water, making steam for heat and also to drive a turbine making electricity. The final product is organic compost. Win Win.

We have a couple wells on our properties. Our son was going to use one for passive heating/cooling. After pumping it dry to measure the flow rate - it stayed dry. Seems when our neighbor ( Cherry Hill Gardens retirement development - yeah, I have a lot of pain-in-the-ass neighbors) excavated to extend their Clubhouse and install a pool, they severed the aquifer. So much for that well.


 Here you's go.. http://presscore.ca/free-life-time-supply-of-renewable-natural-gas-for-your-homes-and-cottages.html



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Free life time supply of renewable natural gas for your homes and cottages
Posted by Paul W Kincaid Getting Off Oil, World news Sunday, February 23rd, 2014


recycling human waste into a free year round supply of natural gas

You and millions of people in Canada, the United States, South America, Africa, Australia, Europe and Asia can generate a free life time supply of renewable and unmetered natural gas for your homes and cottages. You can very easily produce your own life time supply of environmentally friendly natural gas in your own back yard and fuel your gas furnace, gas fireplace, gas electrical power generator, gas stove, or other gas fueled appliances using your existing septic tank. The free natural gas fuel called biogas (CH4 – methane) is already being generated 24/7, 365 days a year and for the rest of your life by your existing septic tank. You only need to enhance its production by adding a catalyst – a small amount of natural enzymes like brewers yeast – that will enhance the rate of chemical reaction and break down of the biomass (organic matter) in the septic tank into a free natural gas fuel. In order to use this free life time supply of natural gas you will need to connect a natural gas collector to your septic tank system. In a matter of hours you can build your very own natural gas well and start using your free life time supply of unmetered natural gas fuel.


free natural gas and battery power from your septic tank

You can build your very own natural gas well and start producing and collecting your year round free supply of natural gas simply by adding a biogas collector to your exiting septic system. A biogas collector is placed on top of your existing septic tank to collect and store the natural gas that is being produced naturally and perpetually by your septic tank. You can use any large “airtight” plastic or metal container (even a plastic fuel tank or furnace oil tank) as your biogas collector. Join your septic tank to the collector using mass produced flexible plumbing tubing. Run a length of pipe from the top of the collector to just above ground height. Attach a gas regulator value (like the ones used for barbecues) and a safety blow off valve to the top of the pipe to control the gas flow or shut it off and on. Fill in with dirt and let mother nature generate a “lifetime supply” of free environmentally friendly natural gas.


Bench houses the electrical wiring, voltage regulator & power inverter
Well functions as a surface maintenance conduit and outdoor fire pit

Build a stone well flower bed or lay a concrete culvert directly above the biogas collector and use it as a natural gas well head and provide easy access and maintenance to your natural gas well surface piping.

Biogas is a gas produced by the biological breakdown of organic matter in the absence of oxygen. Organic waste such as dead plant and animal material, animal feces, and kitchen waste can be converted into a gaseous fuel called biogas. Biogas originates from biogenic material and is a type of bio fuel.

Biogas is produced by the anaerobic digestion or fermentation of biodegradable materials such as biomass, manure, sewage, municipal waste, green waste, plant material, and crops.

The gases methane, hydrogen, and carbon monoxide (CO) produced is combustible. This energy release allows biogas to be used as a fuel. Biogas can be used as a fuel in any country for any heating purpose, such as home heating and cooking. It can also be used in anaerobic digesters where it is typically used in a gas generator to convert the energy in the gas into electricity. Biogas can even be compressed, much like natural gas, and used to power your motor vehicles.

Rural dwellers from around the World can reduce their fuel and home heating and electrical power costs simply by collecting, storing and burning the biogas that is created naturally in their septic tanks. This free biogas can fuel a gas furnace, gas fireplace, gas generator, or other gas fueled appliances.

Using biogas generated naturally from septic tanks and manure anabolic digestion has an added ecological benefit too. Burning biogas can help reduce global climate change. Normally, septic sewage and manure that is left to decompose releases two main gases that contributes to global climate change: nitrogen dioxide and methane. Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and methane both warms the atmosphere. By converting septic sewage and manure into a methane biogas fuel via anaerobic digestion, the millions of cows in the United States would be able to produce one hundred billion kilowatt hours of electricity, enough to power millions of homes across the United States. Furthermore, by using manure as a methane biogas fuel instead of letting it decompose, we would be able to reduce global warming gases by ninety-nine million metric tons. There are over 300 million people in the United States. They could potentially produce 300 times more electrical power than cows or 3 trillion kilowatt hours of electricity - enough to power every home in the United States.

The key to generating biogas through anabolic digestion in a septic tank is to remove as much excess liquid waste from the septic tank as possible. The easiest step to take to insure the septic tank isn’t flooded is to use less and waste less water. Too much water will reduce the biogas generation.

One way to ensure greater biogas production is to periodically pump as much of the waste water (sewage slurry) from the tank, as possible. Incorporating a sewage pump – a type of sump pump that is intended for use with waste water – into your septic tank biogas generating system will increase the biogas production. As the pump (only should be done periodically) removes excessive waste water from the top of the solid sewage it will also create a vacuum in the tank. That is an added benefit as biogas is produced by the biological breakdown of organic matter in the “absence of oxygen” – in other words in a vacuum. Where do you pump the excess waste water? To your pre-existing septic bed (also called a drain field). The liquid waste or effluent already flows out of the tank and evenly distributed into the soil through the septic bed.

Never pour chemical household or septic tank cleaners like CLR (contains Water, Lactic Acid (OSHA Hazard), Gluconic Acid, Lauryldimethyl Hydroxysulaine, and Propylene Glycol Normal Butyl Ether (OSHA Hazard) into your septic tank system if you want to produce your very own life time supply of unmetered natural gas. CLR kills the microorganism and enzymes that naturally and perpetually breaks down the biomass in your septic tank into a free life time supply of natural gas. Chemicals like CLR are not environmentally friendly. They not only kill the microorganism and enzymes in your septic tank system, which are needed to produce natural gas by breaking down biomass, they kill all of the microorganism and enzymes in the soil above rendering your land dead. If you ever want to grow your own food in your backyard or farm fields CLR will kill the soil and you will not be able to grow any nutrient rich fruits or vegetables as the fruit and vegetables get their nutrients from the soil.

Related Article:

Cities and towns around the World flowing with billions of liters of free renewable fuel

Free electrical energy from your own septic tank battery



You can also use your septic tank as an earth battery and generate electrical power. An Earth battery is a pair of electrodes made of two dissimilar metals, such as iron and copper, which are buried in the soil or immersed in the sea (salt) or other acidic liquid (lemon juice, vinegar, sulfuric acid, uric acid etc.,). Earth batteries act as water activated batteries and if the plates are sufficiently far apart, they can tap electrical currents. Earth batteries have been used for centuries, but it more recent times they were used in the 1800′s to power telegraph stations.

Daniel Drawbaugh received U.S. Patent 211,322 for an Earth battery for electric clocks (with several improvements in the art of Earth batteries). Another early patent was obtained by Emil Jahr U.S. Patent 690,151 Method of utilizing electrical Earth currents). In 1875, James C. Bryan received U.S. Patent 160,152 for his Earth Battery. In 1885, George Dieckmann, received US patent U.S. Patent 329,724 for his Electric Earth battery. In 1898, Nathan Stubblefield received U.S. Patent 600,457 for his electrolytic coil battery, which was a combination of an earth battery and a solenoid.

Most batteries sold and bought today work as a result of a chemical reaction that occurs inside the batteries. Car batteries makes us of this chemical reaction to provide electrical power for your car’s electrical systems – lights, radio etc. Sulfuric acid is used and combined with water to produce electrolytes. Electrolytes is required to produce a chemical reaction. Electrolytes can be produced without using the extremely corrosive and highly toxic sulfuric acid. Lemon juice, vinegar and our excrements that are flushed down the toilet and into septic tanks can also be used to produce electrolytes.

The lemon battery that some of us made for a school project is similar to the first electrical battery invented in 1800 by Alessandro Volta, who used brine (salt water) instead of lemon juice. The lemon battery is described in textbooks in order to illustrate the type of chemical reaction (oxidation-reduction) that occurs in batteries. The “acidic” juice inside the lemon that causes a chemical reaction is called an electrolyte.

When zinc (or iron) and copper metal plates or rods are immersed in an electrolyte, energy can be obtained and generated. The stronger electrical currents flow from south to north. This phenomenon possesses a considerable uniformity of current strength and voltage. As the Earth currents flow from south to north, electrodes are best positioned, beginning in the south and ending in the north, to increase the voltage at as large a distance as possible.

It has been found that all the common metals behave relatively similarly. The two spaced electrodes (metal plates or rods), having a load in an external circuit connected between them, are disposed in an electrical medium, and energy is imparted to the medium in such manner that “free electrons” in the medium are excited. The free electrons then flow into one electrode to a greater degree than in the other electrode, thereby causing electric current to flow in the external circuit through the load. The current flows from that plate whose position in the electropotential series is near the negative end . The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.

Because acidic human waste (uric acid) is created daily and added to the septic tank your septic tank can also be used as a battery and generate free electrical energy for years. All you need to do is what the telegraph company did in the 1800s or what kids do at school to demonstrate electrical power using lemons – immerse a couple of electrodes (thin copper and iron rods or pipes) into the ground and into your uric acid (electrolyte) septic tank and make your own “life long” septic tank battery. If your car’s lead acid battery can store electricity so can your septic tank. Instead of using sulfuric acid that is used in car batteries another acid, uric acid, is used and combined with water to produce electrolytes.

A septic tank battery will never go dead as long as you keep on recharging it simply by going to the bathroom and flushing new electrolytes into it.

Septic tank natural gas fuel cell construction basics


septic tank natural gas fuel cell

Building your own septic tank natural gas fuel cell (battery) is pretty simple because you already have most of the major components. Your septic tank is already laid in the ground and most today look like the image below. Today, most septic tanks are made of prefab concrete. They will most likely have 2 compartments built-in like shown in the image. The larger one is were all of the solid waste settles and the smaller one is mostly liquid waste that eventually drains out into your already laid septic bed. The tank is covered with a concrete slab, shown to scale in the image below. The cover already has 2 – 24″ clean out holes and some also have smaller inspection holes. You will need to excavate the earth away from the top of the septic tank in order to lay the collector on top of your septic tank and affix 2 electrodes into it.


septic tank natural gas fuel cell existing components

There are very few components that you will need to acquire to make your own septic tank natural gas fuel cell – see image below. The most important component that you will need to acquire before you start construction your own natural gas well is the collector. A half sized oil drum, automobile gas tank (new or used) or furnace oil tank will work as will a large air tank (new or used) from an air compressor or tractor trailer air brake system. All are already mass produced and can be bought cheaply from major suppliers or from junk yards.

You will also need a gasket or tube of tar to seal the collector over the clean-out opening of the septic tank cover. You will also need 2 electrodes (metals rods) if you want your septic tank to also function as uric acid battery. They need to be long enough to be completely immersed vertically into the uric acid (electrolyte) inside the septic tank and also stick out from the ground once you fill in and cover the tank and collector with dirt. 1/8″, 1/4″, 3/8″ or 5/16″ solid metal rods can be bought at major hardware chains or metal vendors. Make sure you don’t buy two of the same metal rods. One has to copper and the other iron, zinc or stainless steel.


septic tank natural gas fuel cell required components

To install the natural gas collector requires no drilling into the septic tank cover whatsoever. The natural gas collector is laid on top of the cover directly over one of the 24″ septic tank clean-out openings. You will need to remove the cover from the opening you want to lay the collector over. Warning – it is going to smell really, really bad when you lift that cover.

For illustration purposely I placed the natural gas collector over the opening directly above the larger septic tank compartment. You can place the collector over the other hole. Before laying your collector directly over one of the septic tank clean-out openings make sure you have a small hole on the bottom of the collector. Why? How else is the natural gas going to rise up into the collector. It doesn’t need to be a big hole. The smaller the hole the greater the natural gas pressure inside the collector. If you chose to use an automobile gas tank as your collector place the gas tank upside down over the opening as the gas tank already has a hole where a fuel pump would normally be installed if you installed it in a car or truck. You can then use the gasoline filling hole of the automobile gas tank and attach a natural gas line from it to the surface.

To ensure a proper seal between the septic tank cover and the natural gas collector lay a big enough and thick enough gasket on top of the cover before you lay the collector on top of it. You can also lay a thick bead of tar from a caulking tube if you can’t get the right size gasket that fits around the 24″ clean-out opening. The weight of the earth that you fill in the hole and cover the tank and collector with will keep the collector in place for a long time.

Before you fill everything in you will need to attach fitting to the top of your natural gas collector. What size and type of fittings depends on what you use as you natural gas collector and what you use for tubing. If you use 3/4″ flexible tubing you will need fittings that are made to properly connect with the 3/4″ tubing. If your collector already has pre-drilled holes that are threaded your construction will be much easier. If your collector has no holes on top you will need to commit a little more time and drill and install fittings.

After you attach the proper fittings (the right ones for the tubing you plan on using) to the topside of the natural gas collector you will need to run a length of flexible tubing (i.e. pex gas pipe) from the fitting to the surface. The flexible tubing that runs from the collector to the surface shouldn’t be any bigger than 3/4″. On the surface make sure you attach a shutoff valve to the surface end of your tubing. You don’t want you free natural gas to leak out before you can use it.

Once the construction is completed and everything is properly installed and firmly attached fill in the excavated hole and landscape so that your nosy neighbor(s) and municipal extortionists can’t see what you’ve made.

Let the natural gas collect in the collector for a week or two before you start using it. The natural gas is produced naturally, day and night, 24/7 and 365 days a year and with no interaction from you. More natural gas is produced in the summer months than in the winter months because the outside temperature dictates how much natural gas is produced and how quickly.


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That's the problem right there ! Liberal minded people actually believe in this green energy crap and think they can heat their homes with methane from their septic tank. What the article above forgot to mention, is that the methane collected from an average household of 4 people might (if you're lucky) heat your house for 5 minutes.

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Hey,

Sorry, I did'nt catch your name yet?  If you are at all interested, I got a call from a fiend of mine who bought this car out of the Volo Museum.  http://www.volocars.com/vehicles/11668/1957-mercury-turnpike-cruiser

Its the same story I've heard over and over, the car runs hot, some jackass has installed an electric fan in an otherwise nicely restored car and it stalls and performs poorly when hot.  I'll be glad to post the numbers I get off it before and after set up but it is a bit of work so if no one cares I won't bother?  Typically, I find that it will be set up pig rich and it will have a timing curve for 104 premium leaded fuel.  If I'm wrong, we can all have a laugh at my expense, ok?  I won't have time to look at it till later in the week, so let me know.   

 



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BRANTFORD, ONT

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The turnpike cruiser your friend bought is a very nice car and the fact that needs to be fine tuned doesn't surprise me at all. If its simple adjustments such as timing, dwell, idle mixture, etc. it should run great but if things are just worn out I would put the stock stuff on the shelf, look for replacements over time and consider a 500 cfm Edelbrock carb and a Pertronix ign.to get the car on the road . Ive spent too much money trying to make org. wore out parts work properly and trying to hunt down some of this stuff is next to impossible .Let us know how it works out.

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ONTARIO

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Petebil wrote:

That's the problem right there ! Liberal minded people actually believe in this green energy crap and think they can heat their homes with methane from their septic tank. What the article above forgot to mention, is that the methane collected from an average household of 4 people might (if you're lucky) heat your house for 5 minutes.


 Yep - but it works bud



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ALLAN PARK, ONT

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Too bad we cant harness the poo coming out of our governments mouths...........

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ONTARIO

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poncho62 wrote:

Too bad we cant harness the poo coming out of our governments mouths...........


 LOL



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MARKHAM, ONT

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Bob,

It really is a nice car, it competed in one of the Concourse De Elegance shows a few years back.  The big clues were an aftermarket fan installed and a pusher fan on the rad.  According to my temp gun, it had a 180 thermostat installed.  Personally, I've found that running anything less than a 195 stat in a carburetor car shortens the engines life considerably but that was not the root cause of this things issues.  It had a really weird surge at idle so I did a quick baseline.  Base timing was set at 23 degrees, hydrocarbons read 2200 ppm and CO was in the 6% range.  I dropped the base timing back to 13 degrees (this is considerably higher than the stock 6-8 but the flame travel of the newer 94 fuel is much slower than the old leaded stuff)  The oxygenated stuff from shell is even worse and seems to burn hotter.  Anyway, with the timing set properly the surge went away and HC came down to about 700ppm.  If I brought the CO down any further HC would start going back up which suggests that the old point type ignition is just not strong enough to light a leaner mixture.  The dilemma for him now is live with a 700ppm HC level, which means raw fuel will be washing the cylinders or upgrade the ignition system so it can be set to run cleaner, but lose the originality.  The thermostatic air door also appears to be sticking, not sure where he will ever find parts to correct the opposing thermostatic coil it uses???  This car is before my time and things like the vacuum lines are all steel tubes, wow.  I'm waiting to hear back on the temp in traffic but the gauge was down a 1/4 so I'm pretty confident its fixed.  Simple things, but they make a huge impact on the enjoyment of a classic car.  Meantime, I have to get going on my latest project, the 1967 Fastback.  It sat lifted and partially assembled on a stand since about 1980 and the couple were going through a nasty divorce so I bought it.  Brand new 40 year old tires and all.  LOL, for a big block Dodge guy it looks like an engine only smaller!     



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