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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Good morning all.  I recently had a discussion with a friend who seems to know all there is to know about muscle cars.  I mentioned to him that I hoped to one day put a blower on my 289.  I confess, racing is not my cup of tea at all and my friend recognizes that I much prefer cruising to racing but I am building a hot rod / rat rod and I would like to make it into something that turns a few heads.  But more than that, my desire for a blower is more primal.  I want to please me.  When we were kids so many eons ago, a dream was to one day have the kind of hot rod we could only draw as kids.  So we spent our summers drawing hot rods and reading CARtoons.  Now the day has come when anything is possible, even a blower.  So my question for those who know (you) is, should I succumb to a childhood fantasy or would it be a foolish waste of time and expense?  On the technical side of my dilemma, my friend tells me that my car isn't heavy enough for a blower and my tail end would fish all over the place.  I doubt the car weighs much.  A 1929 model 'A' body chopped and channeled on a custom frame and not much else for weight apart from the engine, gas tank and a floor.  Plus my friend says that it would eat a tank of gas getting from one end of the driveway to the other.  Although he does add that I'd reach the end of the driveway REALLY fast.  So I decided to come to those who know and ask all of you, should I spend my time and cash elsewhere (as I suspect) or give in to what may well be a foolish whim?  It is my understanding that it is the journey, not the destination and I sure am enjoying the build !  I thank you for your input in advance.



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MILTON, ONT

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Go for the blower and get rid of the "friend".

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DORCHESTER, ONT

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The hobby is about passion and creativity and many of times the sensible part is gone. To build a quality hot rod isnt cheap but i look at many guys with expensive hobbies and intrests and the saying goes...if it makes you happy!... So is a light car with a stout engine sensible?, who cares. My take on this , construct it to be safe reliable . To want something for yrs on end and finally looking at doing it is a easy answer.
Build it have fun, listen to the sweet blower whine..and its smiles per gallon..


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PORT HOPE, ONT

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If you gotta ask if its OK to build your dream the way you see it, then perhaps another hobby would be a better choice. Hot rodding is about doing it your way, and to hell with other peoples opinions. Love the guys who say "I didn't build my car to please you". On the other hand much respect given to those who ask, the opinion of those who know, how to build there dream ride safely. Ed

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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I would suggest an Eaton blower. There are variations on certain Mustangs, but do your homework and get a full understanding of the various types. I put a blower on my model A, but having less then a complete understanding of the setup, I had to remove it but it will go back. There are thousands of hot rods running around on the street perfectly happy. If you have to worry about gas mileage, you shouldn't be driving a hot rod or performance car. If you don't reach the other end of the driveway really fast, then you definitely better put the blower on.

You can see my build under projects: Dog Spit, the build

Warren

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PICTON, ONT

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Never having used a blower myself makes me a non expert. They look neat but can cause problems. I would keep the blower speed down to prevent hydraulicing the engine . You shouldn't need a lot of boost on the street.

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GTA

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Cuddles wrote:

I hope to one day put a blower on my 289.  My desire for a blower is more primal.  I want to please me.  When we were kids so many eons ago, a dream was to one day have the kind of hot rod we could only draw as kids.    The day has come when anything is possible, even a blower.


 

DO IT !!!!!  biggrin

 

Sounds like it's something you've really wanted for a LONG time ...

 

"Too much power for a light car" .... NO, not if you under-drive the blower, making virtually no boost (if the look is all you want).

 

An acquaintance has a fiberglass Model A coupe (with fenders), SBC with a V6-71 blower, two four barrels and a four speed stick and he drives it anywhere he wants to with no issues.  His car is chopped but not channeled though ... with your car being both, you could end up having a hard time seeing around a blower which could be a invitation for the cops to dust off their pens and ticket books. 

 

If you want the look of a tall engine, you could run a tunnel ram intake and avoid any issues with boost pressure, 3" wide drive belts (that potentially cause alternator mounting issues), and the worry of lubing rotor bearings BUT, if it's a blower you've always wanted ...

 

Back to the blower .... they can be set up to work just fine on the street (very low boost so no need for forged pistons, steel crank etc).  As far as fuel mileage, the reality is you most likely won't be driving a chopped and channeled Model A too much anyways so that's pretty much a non-issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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GTA

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wuga wrote:

I put a blower on my model A, but having less than a complete understanding of the setup, I had to remove it but it will go back.

Warren


 

 

 

This is EXACTLY what the OP is looking for ... first-hand experience with a blower on a street car so how about some detailed information as to what was wrong or what went wrong with your combination and what changes you have to make before reinstalling yours?

 

Too much boost?  Too much compression?  Not enough fuel pressure causing hi rpm lean-out?  Not enough cooling capacity?  Low rpm "school bus/truck" rotor bearings?  Belt too tight causing rotor bearing damage?  Bird actually flew in your "bird catcher" injection unit?  Come on man, help the poor guy out.   



-- Edited by Pete Moss on Monday 4th of September 2017 08:05:08 AM

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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There are a few reasons the blower engine is currently not in Dog Spit.
1) In the haste to get it ready for Detroit Autorama, I did not familiarize myself with all the aspects of a blower
2) The line pressure feeding the Stromberg 97s was too high causing continual flooding
3) The recommended gasket sealant would not stand the pressures of the blower and blew out
4) For the size of the engine and blower, I was over carbed.

I could have fixed all these problems with the engine in the car but on my way to a cruise one night, I hydrolocked and had to tow the car home. It was an awful sound that came from the engine and I didn't want to restart it. I had another new engine sitting on the stand, so I installed that one until I determined what went wrong. That was two years ago and I got so busy building the Bantam that the blower engine just sits on the stand. I did drop the pan and the intake and nothing seems bent or broken but when things quiet down, the engine will get torn down and put back together properly. I will run a single 4 barrel Holly and certainly watch my fuel pressure. No vacuum leaks allowed. I was under driving the blower 10% initially but will switch the pulleys and go 10% over. The engine has a 8:1 compression ratio so it can certainly handle the boost.

As I stated in the build thread, I chose the 6-53 because of clearance issues but regardless which GMC blower you were to choose, it can get expensive. If I was running a small block Ford, I would look first at the Eaton blower. They have a lower profile so in your case, it would be easier to see over; it would be a bolt on thus cost effective and the technology has already been proven. They are readily available on EBAY in the $4-800 range, a lot less then I ever spent on mine.

In my case, there is very little info available for the 6-53, but google Eaton supercharger and a wealth of information pops up, so I would say go for it and ripple the pavement.

Warren




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BARRIE, ONTARIO

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Myself , First I would go to cruises or shows and look for dudes with cars similar to your engine / car combo .
And ask them as much as you can , of course your gonna find a lot of just bought it drive it guys with no info at all .
Next stop would be maybe drags trip on vintage days , some one in that group has gotta have a 289 with a blower on it .
Then find out who,s combo is working good , then find out who their engine builder and tuner guys are
Then go spend a buncha money and have some fun .
with todays tuning advances and available fuel injection , tuning for the street is easy a lot easier .

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GTA

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Thanks Wuga, more than a bit of very helpful information in your post  smile



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ONTARIO

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Is it worth it?.........if you learned anything then it's always worth it. Might be an expensive lesson - but worth it. Build it the way you like once you've gathered enough info.

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RICHMOND, ONT

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Go for it. Your car your way. Do it yourself if you can. There is a company in the USA and they build crate supercharged motors if you want something garrented to work. I love the look of a blower.

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WEST PERTH, ONT

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Go for it. Also Paxton has made Superchargers for SBF forever. Thought I mentioned that but I guess not.

I've always wanted a tunnel ram for the supernash, but amc stuff isn't exactly plentiful and I missed one at Barrie years ago and regretted it ever since.



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supernash wrote:


 I've always wanted a tunnel ram for the supernash, but amc stuff isn't exactly plentiful and I missed one at Barrie years ago and regretted it ever since.


 

Mike Law of Raceworks Canada (motorcycle drag shop that used to operate out of London/Dorchester) used to own a black Gremlin with a blown (6-71 style) AMC 401 engine in it.  All steel, full interior, not tubbed, street driven, that ran 11's back in the late 80's (to be honest, this may have been on street tires too).  Mike was just getting into bikes at this point, having already been heavy into cars.  I should add, I do not believe Mike built the car, I think he bought it already finished.

I have no idea what happened to that car or what intake was used but it did exist as I've seen it with my own eyes.  I remember the announcer at Cayuga stating something like "in the tower lane we've got a tunnel rammed Gremlin".  Nope ... full blown actually, but since no part of the blower drive stuck through the hood (just the carbs), you wouldn't know it was blown.

 

Mike also used to have a big 4x4 SBC powered Chev p-up with a B&M blower ... well, up until the rotor bearings seized.



-- Edited by Pete Moss on Wednesday 6th of September 2017 01:25:02 PM

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WEST PERTH, ONT

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Thanks for tip. Ya never know.

Dorchester is only a 45 minute drive from here at most.

I be checking that out. His bike shop has been around for quite some time.




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GTA

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supernash wrote:

Thanks for tip. Ya never know.

Dorchester is only a 45 minute drive from here at most.

I be checking that out. His bike shop has been around for quite some time.



 

Last I heard he was still living in Dorchester.  The official bike shop was at 244 Hamilton cres Dorchester.  I believe he ran Raceworks out of a shop behind his house for a while after the close of the Hamilton cres location so the address on Marion may be what you're looking for.  Keep in mind, his ownership of that car was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago, he may know where it went but I am absolutely positive he doesn't still own it.



-- Edited by Pete Moss on Thursday 7th of September 2017 06:54:51 AM

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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Good afternoon to ALL who responded to my query. I really appreciate learning from everyone on this site. What a great site this is. And well, the consensus appears to be a lot more positive than I hoped for so yeah, I'm gonna get me one. First I'll do all the research as recommended. Half the fun is the research (for me) and the other half is the build and the other half is the driving. Where else can you find a hobby with THAT kind of math ? And I do apologize for my late response but I have been spending ALL my time working on the car. I'm surprised my wife hasn't started complaining. Actually, I'm surprised I still have a wife. At least I think I do? Last time I went inside to eat she was still there! All I know for sure is the car is still in the garage.
I enjoyed the comments "Lose the friend" and "smile per gallon" but I should add that I really do appreciate the solid advice because as you can tell, I am here to learn and I am trying very hard to build it right and build it once. I am making everything safe and solid but I am a novice and look to you guys for advice. Thank you one and all ...
69ss454,torquewar,flatback55,Wuga, RWW,Pete Moss, 77, Iwannagofast, Marten & Supernash. You have ALL been most kind. I will do my best.

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ONTARIO

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Growing up in Oshawa and hanging out in front of Millwork until 71 I never seen a blower on a street car. I seen my first blower on a 34 Ford coup in a Huntington Beach Cal. parking lot in 1975 at a meet and will never forget it. We are all a lot older now with money and building cars that was every ones dream back then. The bottom line is it is your dream build what pleases you.

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77


BARRIE, ONTARIO

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When I,ve had a bad day I like to watch these videos
youtu.be/ga7Q8F3l5y0
youtu.be/bsU6_YIZhH4
From my u tube fav,s files

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KAWARTHA LAKES

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"cuddles"; I have a B&M mini blower and love it. If you want the "wow" factor then there's nothing like a 6-71 .
I wouldn't consider myself an expert but I have some experience with superchargers. I live in Lindsay so we're close and if you ever would like to check out my setup or chat let me know.

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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Than you Shawn63. I'd like that. Lindsay isn't so far.

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There seems to be some misconceptions about running a blower. I have run a gmc 6-53 series blower on my 229cu in 90 degree V6 for over 10 years. As long as the compression is less than 9:1, and the boost max is less than 6lbs this will be ok on the street. My setup puts out 2lbs boost at 2000rpm going up to 5lbs at 4000rpm and tailing off somewhat above that. This runs with stock crank, rods, pistons.

I calculate that it takes 20hp to run the blower at 8400rpm (6000 engine rpm).---requiring only a 6 groove serpentine belt to drive it.

I have to run 94 octane fuel to avoid detonation.

At part throttle there is no way to know that the engine is supercharged ( apart from a slight whine from the gears in the blower ). And fuel consumption should not be altered.

The hp increase is approx proportional to the boost pressure or ( 14.7 + 5.0)/14.7 = 134% of unsupercharged at 5.0lbs, assuming the engine wasn't flow restricted by the carburetor. Then subtract hp to drive blower.

Roots blowers build pressure in the manifold due to flow restriction. New blowers of the multiple screw type generate compression in the blower, and are more efficient. Centrifugal compressors, engine driven or turbos generate compression in the blower,but suffer lag problems.

Fuel mixture strength & advance curve are TBD.

The installation can get quite complicated--it took me 7months---doing all the necessary machining in my basement shop--2bbl intake manifold converted to a blower mounting manifold, adapter under blower, o ring grooving blower top & bottom, carb adaptor, water inlet adaptor, pulleys, Blower drive snout, 3 gear offset distributor drive.



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Just for the fun of it, I calculated the hp to drive the blower on a friend's alcohol funny car. It has a 525 cu in engine, a 14-71 blower running 34lb boost, at 9500 blower rpm.

It works out to 517hp--just to drive the blower !  That is why these engines run 3in wide timing belts !--And why street vehicles don't need wide belts.

It also consumes 2 gal of alcohol in 6 seconds--leaving the blower coated in frost at the end of a run--due to the high evaporative cooling.



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