Guys, i been thinking for some time now, actually a few years, many of the tools we need and purchase have never been so cheap.
Yeah, i know much of it is off shore stuff, but the quality is getting better, and i love american made tools as much as anybody, BUT,my point is that for the average guy to equip a workshop/ garage, much of the stuff has never been so cheap for us.
Not sure if this will last, as i'm hearing that the off shore stuff is starting to rise in price, as china/taiwan's economy is growing quickly.
I bought a Walker jack 35 years ago...It was over $300.......Just last year, I had to replace the seals in it.
A couple of years ago, I bought a much bigger jack at Princess Auto for $200...So far it is OK, but a couple of the springs in it broke, no big deal, but I am sure that it wont last 35 years.
Now, when you consider $300 35 years ago is like about $2000 in todays money...well, you get the point......
picked up a engine stand last week at princess motors for $50. least i know why it was 50. bottom mount wouldn't spread far enough a part for a gm small block
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There are 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
True in most cases Poncho,, but i'm seeing a lot of this import equipment that is pretty darned good stuff, as i say the quality is getting much better than it was 5-10 years ago, the motors on equipment are getting decent, the finish on many hand tools are just about as excellent as to what we grew up with.
For the average hobby guy that is working a day job, and has a garage/shop that he spends evenings/weekends in working on old cars, tractors, metal work etc, the availability of tools and equipment for him is way more accessible dollar wise than i remember it back 30-40-50 years ago.
Your'e point about the Walker jacks i agree with, and yes i doubt if many of the off shore jacks will be around in 20-30 years.
Yep...thats what I was saying..For a couple of hundred bucks, you dont expect it to last 20-30 years.
I have bought things at Princess Auto that broke the first time I used it....usually cheap stuff like drill bits etc....hardly worth taking back....Their stuff is getting better all the time.
I agree Harry if its a tool that has any strees on it then i will not buy it from Princess Auto unless its a better brand name such as Lisle and thats still a strecth. The stress catagory covers Sockets/wrenches/Ratchets/breaker bars/pullers.I personally know two guys that had floor jacks fail and one with a no-name spring compressor. The only saving grace with the jacks is the tires were still on the vehicles....lucky. The spring compressor incident resulted in 10 stiches to a arm and some blood cleaning that was later done to the floor and a lower control arm. These guys are very competent and have been wrenching on stuff for 30 plu years. I will buy odds and ends ,sand paper,tie wraps cleaning supplies etc but not a bunch more.
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I don't like paying big bucks for a tool that I use once and then hang it on the wall. I don't mind acheap piece as long as I get the job done before it brakes and at princess auto they have a great waranty. After going through 2 or 3 replacements you end up with one that works.
not that i want to slam princess auto. i buy most of my consumable there now. but a couple of years ago i picked up an offset wrench set at a cheaper then ctc on special price. the first time i used the set the wrench broke. okay they have warranty. so i take the wrench in a get a new one, and you guessed it. i just tossed the whole set in the scrap metal bucket. if its a high stress tool i usually get them from ctc or napa now. mind you princess has a new line of tools out has anyone tried them yet?
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There are 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Agree for sure about some of the items Princess auto sells, ya gotta really watch what your'e buying.
One off shore item that is a "Best Bang for the Buck," that not everyone requires is the 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw, they been around now for at least 30 years and are a good machine, the motors i still don't trust,, but if you replace the blade with a quality blade like "Lennox" or similar, they do a heck of a good job. (Hand hacksawing steel is definetly "Slave work".) Lol. Another item i see that works very good is the sets of impact sockets, simple things like some of the screwdriver sets, god, what are they?,, sets of 10 or so for $18.00. (Yes, some are just soft crap.) Some of the impact tools seem good for the homeshop guy, --i'm still pretty leary of the electric tools from offshore. So many of the old N. American made brand names are now made off shore trying to compete, i just read the other day that now Snap Ons "Blue point" tools are all off shore, and Milwaukee tools were the last truely 100% built american tools, they now are also going off shore.
Some of the reason for better prices is the Canadian dollar too. I paid less for bigger plasma cutter 2 years ago than I did for my first one 11 years ago. Both are Hypertherm. Rapid prototyping also helps. Even many cars and trucks are cheaper now than 5 -10 years ago. Milwaukee has had their stuff built overseas for a while now. I would rather spend a bit more money on domestic built tools or find some good used stuff. On the other hand I do have some stuff that I could never afford to buy new domestic like my metal lathe. Some of that off shore stuff like spring compressors and car hoists are truly scary.
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Anyone still shopping for tools, ---(does it ever stop??) Lol,-- i still persue yard sales, flea markets, as there are still good N. American made stuff showing up in these places , and usually the price is right.
I've often wondered, over the past say 50 years,,, all the old tradesmen that have passed away that had a complete lifetime accumilation of tools,,, Where does all this stuff go too? There must be thousands that have passed on in all the trades, yet i don't often see many complete tool sets up for sale. Maybe i just need to get out more!!
For about $2400.00, taxes in, I got a 9000LB hoist for the garage. The hydraulics are supposed to be North American with the steel being import. Of coarse the garage is too small to get a 9000 lb vehicle on it so I don't have to worry about going max on it.
I keep my eye on the welds quite often but they seem OK.
I agree that *some* offshore stuff is getting better but still have a hard time trusting it. Inverter welder technology is really coming along and you can get some full featured plasma cutters and TIG welders at a 1/3 of the cost of the top of the line Miller & Lincolns. I haven't gambled on them yet, but the demo's I've seen look pretty promising.
As far as buying anything goes - I still look for used high end before I will buy new offshore but you are right, its easier to buy stuff that might have been out most peoples reaches 10 years ago like hoists etc...
Sasquatch; That shaper is awesome! I've never seen a bench model....sweet find
-- Edited by Gearhead on Monday 12th of November 2012 08:12:00 PM
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Machinery is cheap !! You have to know where to look. I'm not going to give away all my secrets, but some of the deals I picked up over the years; X-Cell-O 602 milling machine-$600 General (not International) 14 Inch planer used about 1hour- $250 General (not International) 6 Inch jointer used about 1 hour- $150 and tons of other stuff.
If someone was starting from scratch, they could set up,over a bit of time, a complete machine and fabricating shop for about $20000. Small tools are difficult to find cheap, because there's a high demand for them. I still find the best tools and machinery are the ones you make yourself. There's a few reasons why stuff is so much cheaper for us to buy today that it was only 25 years ago. The biggest reason is manufacturing is so much more efficient, and also stuff is made offshore with cheap labour. Also, the quality of the things that are "affordable", sucks !! Go out and buy a set of quality "Snap-On" wrenches, and you'll find that their prices are as high today as it was 25 years ago.
-- Edited by hemi43 on Monday 12th of November 2012 08:17:06 PM
I picked up a 12", 240V table saw off Kijiji for free couple weeks back. Sometimes the older stuff (and therefore better quality can be had for next to nothing). There was an older Deckel FP1 milling machine on Kijiji for "best offer" ... seems the guy bought this house and it was left in the basement, he just wanted a couple bucks and the damn thing out of his house ... I missed out on that one unfortunately.
I remember selling an engine stand over 25 years ago for $60 through the Buy & Sell newspaper ... the buyer was thrilled with it. You can now find a similar stand on sale for something like $29 now. Sure a lot of stuff is cheaper, and it can be hard to justify spending more for something you won't use often ... but it's just part of the "Global Economy" ... you know, where all the manufacturing jobs go offshore leaving thousands of North Americans out of work .......... :(
-- Edited by Pint and a Pound on Tuesday 13th of November 2012 09:25:06 AM
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Thanks gearhead. I was very lucky to find this shaper intact and in very good shape and---with the original vise. The vises for some reason on all shapers are quite rare or busted or just plain missing. My old deceased friend bought this many years ago and had it stashed in the back corner of his garage , that was packed full to the rafters , literaly!! He had never used it to my knowledge.
The louvered door on the side i installed as i had it in stock,Lol, as it previously had a metal plate bolted on there which was a pain to access the inside.
The machine had also been wired with house wire, had the wrong motor and was running backwards. (the return stroke is faster than the forward cutting stroke.)
And that "Peach" coloured paint just had to GO!!! Besides being filthy, and some surface rust, the only damage was 3 grease fittings that were broke off.
Now to get the "Head" redone and get it back onto the base, (it weighs 485 lbs), and hopefully make some "chips" .
i will tell you all a story of a man named jed, well actually i wont, i wil tell a story about a line of tools called chicago tool exchange, now given i have never seen this exchange listed on any stock market i recall seeing, but anyways, they must be furiousley trading tools. my ex employer had this great idea he was going to sell these tools so he dropped about 1000 dollars on grinders, hammer drills, circular saws etc. well christmas time came around so he decided as part of our christmas bonus we could choose from these fine quality items, i took two grinders, two hammer drills. i gave one grinder to flat black and one hammer drill to my stepfather. now one would think you would have no chance of holding the chuck of a 1/2 inch hammer drill while pulling the trigger, well i could hold the chuck no problem. the grinder i gave ed burnt up in about 5 seconds, he accused me of trying to kill him. my makita grinder quit on me and i had 1/2 inch of steel plate to cut with a zip cut, the grinder caught fire in my hand before it could even cut the steel. the hammer drill i gave my stepfather also caught fire. hence this chicago tool exchange stuff was the worst stuff i have ever seen. even better the circular saw blade was made from stamped sheet metal. do they seriousley use tools of this quality in china? theres no way. i think my ex employer hated us.
Great Story, and yup, so much is crap,,, BUT,, it is getting better, the competition between china and Taiwan is pretty Hot right now, with a lot of Taiwan stuff being higher quality.
i will tell you all a story of a man named jed, well actually i wont, i wil tell a story about a line of tools called chicago tool exchange, now given i have never seen this exchange listed on any stock market i recall seeing, but anyways, they must be furiousley trading tools. my ex employer had this great idea he was going to sell these tools so he dropped about 1000 dollars on grinders, hammer drills, circular saws etc. well christmas time came around so he decided as part of our christmas bonus we could choose from these fine quality items, i took two grinders, two hammer drills. i gave one grinder to flat black and one hammer drill to my stepfather. now one would think you would have no chance of holding the chuck of a 1/2 inch hammer drill while pulling the trigger, well i could hold the chuck no problem. the grinder i gave ed burnt up in about 5 seconds, he accused me of trying to kill him. my makita grinder quit on me and i had 1/2 inch of steel plate to cut with a zip cut, the grinder caught fire in my hand before it could even cut the steel. the hammer drill i gave my stepfather also caught fire. hence this chicago tool exchange stuff was the worst stuff i have ever seen. even better the circular saw blade was made from stamped sheet metal. do they seriousley use tools of this quality in china? theres no way. i think my ex employer hated us.
I don't buy Chinese tools, but for $hits&giggles I bought one of those grinders you're talking about for $15 at Barrie. The same damn thing happened to me !! It didn't just burn up, there were flames coming out of it. I just dropped it on the floor and let it burn while I was laughing. I've been told by a reliable source that that line of extremely inferior power tools is made by Chinese prisoners.
I bought my "Cherry Picker" engine hoist from Princess. Bought the higher priced "air assist" one & have had no problem with it. I've had a Olds 350, & 2 Chevy SB's on it with the trans attached & no signs of ANY sagging or bending!!! Folds up & out of the way when not using it. So I'd say some of the offshore IS getting better!!!
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It had to get better, as the distributors here got all the flack about the crap, then passed it on to the Mfg's. The name "China" on a product still gives me the shivers, but the stuff is getting better, and some i have seen have been comparable to N. American finishes.
Looks like the same hoist my old work bought, you could tell it was cheap, the pads, the locks never lined up, went through 3 cylinders on one side in the first 2 months (must have just been something in the lines)
A few pics of my little crane attached to the hoist post. I used two 1/2" thick plates with tapped holes to weld to the post. Its the only way to attach something.
Some tubes that fit inside each other and you're all set.
-- Edited by 123pugsy on Sunday 18th of November 2012 06:12:51 PM
Something important about these cheap hoists I'd like to point out.
I had an extended cab, long box Chevy pickup on the hoist with a rust proofed chassis. The thin rubber pads that come with the hoist eventually absorb oil and the rivets holding them let go. Well, this truck decided to slide the rubber cushions right off the metal pads. Lucky the truck had tubular running board rails as it tilted over and rested on that.
I tossed the rubber pads after that and made up some 1" thick pads that are made from two pieces of 1/2" Baltic birch plywood glued and screwed together. Anything lumpy digs right into them and won't move. They also seem to work good on smooth surfaces as they're not slippery.
I'm not saying these are safe, so use at your own risk, They are safer than the thin, slippery rubber pads that come with the hoist though.
-- Edited by 123pugsy on Sunday 18th of November 2012 06:23:11 PM
Agree
