In order to obtain Historical plates the owner must sign a declaration stating the following to be true. The vehicle in question,
(a) is at least 30 years old, (b) is operated on a highway in parades, for purposes of exhibition, tours or similar functions organized by a properly constituted automobile club or for purposes of repair, testing or demonstration for sale, (c) is substantially unchanged or unmodified from the original manufacturer’s product, and (d) does not have attached to it year-of-manufacture plates.
The way I see it the old car hobby is full of people who have no problem signing a declaration stating the above is true when it fact they know perfectly well it is not OR they fail to understand the severity of making a false statement.
In terms of the type of cars dualquadpete and rodmaster refer to as clearly not being historical, I suggest that there is likely a more serious matter to be understood that enables them to be plated as historical. The underlying document, which would be an ownership indcating the vehicle is at least 30 years old.
PS: Shaggn: based on your avatar it is my opinion that your car would meet requirement (c). It does not say vehicle must be stock.
-- Edited by RAT BOY on Thursday 16th of February 2012 05:15:47 PM
Well the last topic I posted did well, so lets 'stir up the pot some more" I see quite a few "MODIFIED" or "HOT RODS" [call them what you will] at shows & cruise's with Historic plates on them. Total "violation" of what they were brought out for, & I think it "hurts " the REAL historic & STOCK vehicles they were legislated to go on. If these infractions keep coming, I can see the Prov. revoking the plates. What do you think about a special plate for these "modified" vehicles??? One car that stands out in my mind, is a 23 T-Bucket, SBC powered, Ford 9" rear end etc. a FAR cry from a Model T but had historic plates on it!!!! That's going to RUIN it for the owners of the real antiques or restoed cars. I have them on the 64 catalina Basicly Stock except for the Cragars & if thats not right then I'll change the plates, certainly not going that route on the 52 Torpedo back, thats just asking for trouble!!! Opinions, should I 'duck" or get out of town NOW????
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
i go to the same government run office all the time to get my plates and stickers they must assume because my vehicles are over 30 years old, they offer it, i don't recall signing a declaration, its not my fault they don't read the riot act, they sure do want every other piece of documentation to be correct including t-s crossed and a dot over the i. Has anyone you know been busted for Historical Plates, my motorhome is a stock 1976 Citation i didn't ask for them they were offered she said because it was over 30 years old and is only used for pleasure lol (my pleasure) I was entitled to them and of course i jumped all over the 2 year sticker
Maybe entitlement has been relaxed abit, if the DOT and the Cops are not inforcing the Law or so called Regulations relax and enjoy it, I have been pulled over in Ontario for a road side Safety and passed with my motorhome & car trailer, they checked all my documentation ownerships/insurance even vin numbers, I was free to go by the OPP & MTO
I'm doing nothing wrong, except ripping the government off for 60 bucks, they rip the average consumer off everyday in taxes
-- Edited by rodmaster on Friday 17th of February 2012 01:21:07 AM
Ok,I'll play!I have said plates on my wagon,which despite its paint/wheels,appears relatively stock..not!I run those plates for one reason..dollars!Because my car isn't stock,doesn't mean I drive it any more than the guy who has a bone stock vintage car.I see it more that between daily drivers stickers,insurance,gas/txs,etest costs..etc etc etc,I give enough stinkn cash to government and like agencies!If I can save 60/yr until they tell me otgerwise,so be it.Sorry if thats a bad or selfish attitude,but until someone in government agencies recognizes some common sense for us gear heads,I'll save wherever I can.Who's next!?
I went to get Historic Licence Plates for my 66 GMC as i was there i said i also needed plates for my Motorhome, she asked me if i wanted Historic Plates on it as well, i asked can i do that, she said well it is a 1976 and its only driven for pleasure use, I have never had any issues from Law Enforcement, I think its a grey area, on the other hand i don't agree with fibreglass bodied cars with them.
The government doesn't play by the rules ,various agencys of the government use the rules the way they see fit and spin the rules to suit there current needs why shouldn't we after all I am not the moral police its none of my business he is probably trying to get by same as the rest of us.If he is drunk or dangerious that is my business and if a direct danger to me or anyone else it would be my responcibility to get involved.Other than that if some guy found a way around the rules more power to him.I would be all for Modified Plates even if there was a higher cost,if they somehow benifited me eg emisions exempt ,since we all know the government is all about the cash maybe that is an idea that would float but another way of looking at it is it would make it easier to find the modified cars if they ever wanted to. Ed
I just have regular plates, regular insurance, have never had it appraised and dont have collision on it....I drive my truck when and where I want...Maybe I am stupid, but its worked for me for 40 years....knock wood.....lol
got sick and tired of listening to cruise nite lawyers reference historic plates on my 55. truck looks stock but everything has been update or replaced as it wore out. i'm running veterans plates now and get no grief.
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There are 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Run the old plates on my rides. 71 ontario plates on my 71 chevelle. 48 ontario plates on my studebaker truck. Just picked up a set of 32 ontario plates for my next project.....32 rat rod. All my vehicles are appraised and only pay $177 a year for a $20,000 appraised vehicle. Drive it when and where I want.
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meoracing - 48 Studebaker 1 1/2 ton dually stepside. LOSERS CC
got sick and tired of listening to cruise nite lawyers reference historic plates on my 55. truck looks stock but everything has been update or replaced as it wore out. i'm running veterans plates now and get no grief.
Cruise Night lawyers are idiots
Most don't have a car, or theres is a 4 door rusty Dodge Dart e.g.
got sick and tired of listening to cruise nite lawyers reference historic plates on my 55. truck looks stock but everything has been update or replaced as it wore out. i'm running veterans plates now and get no grief.
Cruise Night lawyers are idiots
Most don't have a car, or theres is a 4 door rusty Dodge Dart e.g.
Oh now you've done it Carl, all the rusty Dart owner will be out to get you!!!!
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
I have Historic plates on my '71 Duster340, it has period mod, Cragars and traction bars, that have been on the car since 1972. And yes, I am aware that traction bars don't really work on Mopar's. I rarely drive the car, it has 73k original miles on the numbers match drive train. On this particular vehicle, I follow the said rules for Historic plates.
Now on my '38 pickup, I don't know what I'll do, I'm looking at getting personalized plates, but most of my selections have been taken. Next option would be year of manufacture plates, 1938.
I personally will shy away from using historic plates on the '38 pickup, as it will have too many mods, and I will be driving it around much more than the '71 Duster, and I'd be afraid (lack of better word) of facing the repercussions of being charged/fined with insurance co.'s ...
Having said that, it really doesn't matter to me who uses them and how, it's your car, do what you want with it.
whatever float's your boat.If you feel comfortable when a cop pulls up behind you or you feel comfortable knowing your insurance will support your choices lol, and you sleep well at nite. Then go ahead and save your 60.00.
I personally tend to know something aint right when I fear a cop is going to turn around or pull me over .Ran fenderless for a while but couldn't stand the anticipation of getting pulled over ,so I put them on I have way to much invested to start playing games over 60.00 .
My hundred dollar a year insurance requires 10 years of ticket free driving or I am back to paying 2000.00 a year for regular insurance because I wanted to save 60.00?
I am already saving thousands and will plate and run my vehicles as I am aware they should be.But that's me.Good luck with your 60.00 savings!!
Regarding enforcement and the likelihood of getting ticketed for improper use of Historical Plates. A close family member has a job where he is required to enforce the Highway Traffic Act among other statutes of Ontario. I aksed him about Historical Plates. Dad, he said, Why would I hassle some old guy like you driving around enjoying his old car like you do UNLESS he was doing something foolish and unsafe like a burnout or speeding or driving under the influence. On top of that he said he doubted that anybody in his detachment even knew the regulations on Historical Plates.
To the best of my knowledge there is no relationship between insurance and the type of plate on a vehicle. Most if not all insurance companies require photos and a detailed appraisal of the classic and modified cars they insure so there is no question the insurer will know what it is insuring.
Regarding enforcement and the likelihood of getting ticketed for improper use of Historical Plates. A close family member has a job where he is required to enforce the Highway Traffic Act among other statutes of Ontario. I aksed him about Historical Plates. Dad, he said, Why would I hassle some old guy like you driving around enjoying his old car like you do UNLESS he was doing something foolish and unsafe like a burnout or speeding or driving under the influence. On top of that he said he doubted that anybody in his detachment even knew the regulations on Historical Plates.
Ray, did you show your son the video of the Poncho on the DVP??? Think that one would "qualify' for what he was saying?????
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
To the best of my knowledge there is no relationship between insurance and the type of plate on a vehicle. Most if not all insurance companies require photos and a detailed appraisal of the classic and modified cars they insure so there is no question the insurer will know what it is insuring.
when i originally put historic plates on the beast the insurance company said okay we are insuring you for pleasure driving, not to work, garage kept and under 3000 km/year. next year i said i'm having too much fun, i'm really racking up the miles. too which they said everything else is the same but unlimited milage. i asked do i have to change my plates from historic. they replied don't care what plates are on it only as long as its plated.
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There are 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Yep!!! Thats the one "that you have NO IDEA who did it!!!!! Just too "clarify" this topic, what I was orginally saying here is that the 'miss use" of these plates on highly modified vehicles is going to come to a head sometime & the people that use these plates "correctly" are the ones who will get "screwed" Seems like the general feeling is to "SCREW" the Prov. for the $60 & who cares if someone else gets screwed down the road at a later time.When that happens 'you just SCREWED YOURSELF" Think we should lobby Gov. as a group for a expanded plate for the hot rod & modified vehicles at a reduced rate just like the historic $18 one maybe at $25?? as these aren't driven all yr. either.
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
Yep!!! Thats the one "that you have NO IDEA who did it!!!!! Just too "clarify" this topic, what I was orginally saying here is that the 'miss use" of these plates on highly modified vehicles is going to come to a head sometime & the people that use these plates "correctly" are the ones who will get "screwed" Seems like the general feeling is to "SCREW" the Prov. for the $60 & who cares if someone else gets screwed down the road at a later time.When that happens 'you just SCREWED YOURSELF" Think we should lobby Gov. as a group for a expanded plate for the hot rod & modified vehicles at a reduced rate just like the historic $18 one maybe at $25?? as these aren't driven all yr. either.
I'm with you on that, "WE" are all going to get screwed out of these "Historic" plates, if they get overly "miss used".
A seperate set of plates for highly modified cars or vehicules that don't get driven year round would definately be great if they'd be available.
I'm with you on that, "WE" are all going to get screwed out of these "Historic" plates, if they get overly "miss used".
A seperate set of plates for highly modified cars or vehicules that don't get driven year round would definately be great if they'd be available.
Who/How do we lobby for them?
I agree with Pete and Gazoo as well.
I have a meeting at Queens Park with a sitting member of parliament this week on a another matter. I will try and bring these matters up with him and see what advice he might offer and report back.
Here is a quick "for what it's worth" on Historical Plates.
I coach Hockey with the Police Pro Action league in Toronto which focuses on one of the high crime areas with predominately new Canadian kids 7 to 12 years. I was in the coaches room with 8 Toronto Police officers getting ready for practices and games to day.
I said hey guys what do you know about the use of Historical license plates. Nothing, was the reply, What are they ?
This will all come to a head when the smart lawyer for the insurance company fights a claim and looks for a loop hole not to pay. I suspect they will call it miss use of permit Which it is according to the use of permit definiton. Ahh forget about it all I can say is I have been told by the MTO miss use of a permit is miss use of a permit in their eyes. I switched back to regular plates 20 years ago. Think about it and make your own decision. If I was a cop and new the law my quota would be . Ahh forget about it do what the f--k you want, see everyone is a lawyer
Will miss use of Historic plates ruin it for others...IMO not likely. Ins.co's will not lobby against the miss use of the plates because for them miss use is a violation they can use against you. Will an Insurance Co. faced with a large payout use it against a person who knowingly or not miss used Historic plates or ANY licence related violation 100%. After having been hit head on by an uninsured drunk driver, hanpicapped for life and dealing with Ins. Co's and the process for years I can tell you first hand that an Ins.Co will TRY and use ANY miss use or loop hole against you to avoid or lower a payout. To them the law is the law and if you try and side step it you WILL get screwed when you need it most. It is what their Lawyers are paid to do. Just to respond to a simple violation (incured or not) within a case will cost you lots of lawyer bucks/time that will come out of any settlement you may receive assuming you are not at fault. If you are at fault it could be even worse if they use the violation to revoke ins. protection. Do not give an ins.co ANY reason to avoid coverage or paying a settlement. If you have Historic plates on a vehicle that does not meet the requirements as stated in law whether you signed something at the time of plate purchase or not you are taking a chance that IMO is not worth taking. It is your responsibility to meet the requirements under the law for both driver AND vehicle. JMO
X2 and I was just venting. Do you know how many times I have heard this in the last 20 years. I just keep my mouth shut and walk away and let the newbies figure it out...lol Sometimes it gets very entertaining to listen their verbal diahrea. All I know is that I am legal and don't mind paying a bit more knowing it will all be good if ever I am in a situation beyond my control especially in this day and age of, sue my neighbour and his wife and if not them their kids. Ok I am done lets move on...lol
In order to obtain Historical plates the owner must sign a declaration stating the following to be true. The vehicle in question,
(a) is at least 30 years old, (b) is operated on a highway in parades, for purposes of exhibition, tours or similar functions organized by a properly constituted automobile club or for purposes of repair, testing or demonstration for sale,
Question: Section "B".
If I understand the use of Historic plates as stated under law.
If you have historic plates you can ONLY use the vehicle in parades, to go to and from car shows or for the purpose of sale.
Do any of you with historic plates raising this issue of misuse or "Correct" use use your vehicle to go get a bag of milk or a liesurely Sunday afternoon drive in the country or any other type of driving not clearly described in section "B". If so (be honest) is this type of misuse of the plate somehow different? Just making sure you are clear about the use of historic plates if you are going to go to an MP and raise the issue. The purpose of a Historic plate is to get you to a show/parade and back thats it thats all. Careful what you wish for. JMO
-- Edited by 69SS454 on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 06:55:14 PM
-- Edited by 69SS454 on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 07:10:18 PM
-- Edited by 69SS454 on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 07:35:34 PM
The regulations on Historical Plates are very clear in my opinion. Because I have access to a longtime member I made an offer to raise this and take a proactive approach.
As I mentioned, personally if I was signing a declaration applying for these plates I'd make sure I was telling the truth. Despite what anyone says you have to sign to get a normal renewal sticker and you have to sign to get Histotrical Plates. Anyone saying different is having selective memory. Even at an automated kiosk you have to answer yes to the statement saying everything you have input is true.
We certainly don't want to raise any issues that make the hoobyist out to be ignoring the rules for use.
-- Edited by RAT BOY on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 09:58:09 PM
I have a meeting at Queens Park with a sitting member of parliament this week on a another matter. I will try and bring these matters up with him and see what advice he might offer and report back.
As promised I spoke to the member about the various issues raised here about historical plates and emmission equipment. We have a friendly ear, he owns three cars, a Grand Prix, T Bird and a Cross Fire.
He told me to write up the issues and he will do two things, send the concerns to the appropriate Minister via his office and Stand up in Question period and read the letters and gain a public response. He understood the issues.
PM me if you want to contribute to the letter. I will keep everyone apprised.
As Ray stated awhile ago, the police don't really know about the Historic plate "at the moment" for enforcing the restrictions!!! It's the "BLATENT" miss use of them on a MODIFIED car that we are discussing here, not how far you drive it & on what day of the week, that likely wouldn't even come up, but with these "modified cars running them, "IT WILL" eventually, seems the standard answer for doing this "Hey I just screwed the Gov. out of $60 by lying on the form" but you likely "screwed' your car hobbyist [in the future] out of having the option to have those plates on his/hers "non-modified" car!!!!
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
It is better to leave well enough alone on these plates Pete, I think we have to accept that folks will use them to save a few bucks. To me it's just the tip of an iceberg because these highly modified plastic body cars have to have a 30 year old + ownership to qualify, so that is the more serious threat, how did a plastic body scratch built 1932 Ford replica Hot rod get a legitimate 1932 Ontario Ownershsip and Registration attached to it
I think we got some idea of what the feelings are on this topic!!! Good discussion, lots of input, & thats a "good" thing!!! Isn't that what it's all about????
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
Ok,I'll play!I have said plates on my wagon,which despite its paint/wheels,appears relatively stock..not!I run those plates for one reason..dollars!Because my car isn't stock,doesn't mean I drive it any more than the guy who has a bone stock vintage car.I see it more that between daily drivers stickers,insurance,gas/txs,etest costs..etc etc etc,I give enough stinkn cash to government and like agencies!If I can save 60/yr until they tell me otgerwise,so be it.Sorry if thats a bad or selfish attitude,but until someone in government agencies recognizes some common sense for us gear heads,I'll save wherever I can.Who's next!?
