Overheating Comet

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Overheating Comet

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Hy guys, I'm back with onother issue.

We purchased a 63 Comet ragtop last year as a gift for my Dad who since has passed away.

Previous owner had over heating problems and replaced the rad with a 4 row unit.

Our Falcon had similar issues when first built. It has a '69 302 Windsor / C4. We installed a 190' thermostat, a larger flex fan, 4 row rad, built a shroud, all of which resulted in a constant 160 - 180 operating temp regardless of rpm or duration. Drove it to B.C. and back towing a small hardtop camper for our honeymoon 26 years ago. By the way.....my wife built the motor.(I supervised)

Comets motor is a 70's 302 / C4 from a Granada, Edelbrock intake & 600 Vac sec. carb. Standard ignition. Heads have the Cleveland style spark plugs rather than the larger Windsor style and without full knowledge of this package I'm thinking this might have something to do with the over-heating.

Once home we flushed the cooling system, installed a 190 thermostat, a larger flex fan, cut two additional oval holes in the stone guard behind the bumper to increase airflow to the rad. Also added an overflow and correct cap.

I haven't built a shroud or closed off the rad to the rad support yet but will.

Carb is calibrated correct, timing is 8' at idle, 28' at W.O.T.

The waterpump is correct of the housing and rotation, impellors are not spilling on the shaft. Pulley is correct dia.

When putting around at 2G the temp hovers around 190' but once above that for extended duration the temp creeps up and stays.

I'm at a loss. Only thing I can think of is if the previous owner put cleveland heads on a windsor and neglected to pay attention to the water passages there might be a flow issue. This might account for the nasty oil leak at the front of the intake too....or not. I dunno.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, you fella's should know, Poncho donated an early tach and 3 gauge set to this build - FREE. The tach is in and works great, the gauges will be going in soon. The car's finished look will be that of a 1960's mechanics daily driver / weekend dragstrip warrior. It'll be dedicated to my Dad, Poncho's name will be pinstriped on the trunk under Crew.

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

Is the problem in traffic or going down the highway?

I dont know anything about what Ford heads fit what properly. If that isnt the issue, I bet a fan shroud would help...I dont know how many times I saw guys take the shroud off or it wouldnt fit anymore because of a different fan or whatever and they suddenly had overheating problems...

Randy, when you put my name on there, dont put a picture....dont want to scare anyone.....lol

VirgilHilts · BELWOOD, ONT

Are they Cleveland heads or not? Later 302 heads use the smaller 5/8" plugs too. Need to look at the casting codes to determine year of manufacture.
Cleveland valve covers have 8 bolts, Windsors have 6 and are rounded, narrower on the top than the bottom whereas Cleveland covers are generally squared off and "pent roofed" like a five sided wedge at the front. Cleveland intake manifolds aren't "wet" so if you use C heads you need to drill out the water passages at the front and back of the heads and you need a BOSS 302 intake or a specially made "Clevor" intake. It is not a popular swap anymore due to 351C's being rather scarce these days and the advent of VERY good Windsor heads recently.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

That's the stuff I'm looking for Stu, thanks. I wasn't certain if later 302's went to a small plug and I remembered Cleveland heads on a Windsor block were problematic. I was too lazy to google, and beside's, I figured someone on here would know. Wouldn't have a casting # web-page on hand would ya? I'll count the valve cover bolts and double check the shape.
I just came upon a low mileage 1969 302/C4 from a Torino parts car my buddy found. He doesn't want them so I'll take 'em. That's the same year and package in our Falcon. Got any suggestions for the build-up?, something streetable but with a little snot.
I have an old Torker289 and an Edelbrock dual-plane, a Crane cam,(forget the # but I think it's 484 / 272) but I'm thinking a roller pkg might be better. Also have a set of shorty headers from a 5.0 Mustang.....

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Thanks Flatduck. Actually it's do-able but as VirgilHilts says, it requires some cobbling. Attached is one of many links I found, interesting reading.:
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/clevor_head_mod.htm

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

i know and heard about using 351 windsor heads on a 302 .........but i m sure 351 c heads won t fit on a 302............a 351 c and a 351 windsor are 2 complete different engine an easy to spot how they don t look the same

VirgilHilts · BELWOOD, ONT

Yeah the Clevor was a popular swap for a very short time in the Ford world. It's not that hard to do but again it's the intake that is the issue. Cleves and Windsors share almost nothing (Cleves are more related to the LIMA 429/460 design wise) but the head bolt pattern is the same as is the bore spacing. The Cleveland technically is an outgrowth of the BOSS 302 development. BOSS 302 heads are basically the same canted valve design as the C. The BOSS 302 block is the 4 bolt block developed for the Windsor Tunnelport for the Fords disasterous 1968 Trans Am series.

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

So how hot are you talking, with a 190 stat it will read about 195-200 on the open highway.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

going down the highway provides more cooling than the fan could ever, if you are overheating while driving it sounds like you have a blockage, like a bad thermostat of which im sure you have ruled out. you either have compression leaking into the cooling system, blown or leaking head gasket or a defect. i would try a pressurized test of the cooling system to determine a leak. a bad intake gasket could also draw in air after driving and cause an air lock

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Well, it's hot, dunno exactly how hot 'cause I haven't got the heat gauge installed yet. I do know it runs much warmer than the Falcon and as Fatstax mentioned, it's worse running down the highway. Get's the kind of temp creep I'd expect in city driving, it should cool down when up to speed but gets worse instead.
There's no anti-freeze in the crankcase, no oily film in the cooling system, no miss and no steam-cleaned plugs. I hadn't thought of the leaky intake gasket though, that's one worth runing down.
Gonna start with pulling the rad and having it reverse flushed & pressure tested, then once back in the car pressure test the entire cooling system. If there's a leak, internal or external, I'll find it.
This ones really got me perplexed. Thanks for the help guys, any other suggestions just send 'em along. I keep an open mind.....my wife says it's wide open, like the barn door.

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

You say you don't have a temperature gauge but you know it's running hot?? I wouldn't waste any money trying to fix what may not be a problem until you get a working gauge first

Beachcat · WASAGA BEACH, ONT

do you have room to tilt your rad backwards???

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Yup, it's hot Koot. hoses are buldging & it blew a soldered seam. Nope, no room to tip the rad either Beachcat. I pulled it and dropped it at the rad shop today. Wasn't flowing all that great and the seam needed to be repaired anyway. Told the guy to pull the top off, rod out the tubes & put it back together then pressure test it. I'll keep ya posted.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

ya without a gauge you cant tell how hot it really is, hoses should be pressurized if its a closed system. keep us posted

Chris Stapley · CAMPBELLFORD, ONT

Here's another possibility guys, I think the later ( think 5.0 litre Mustang) engines used a water pump that was spun backwards.

Whats the chances that you either have a later block or later water pump, they will bolt up but won't put the hot water where

it should....

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

thats an interesting point, i didnt know ford also used a backward pump. he just might have that problem, i know a chev with the wrong pump will do the same thing

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

I like the way ya think Chris, but nope. That was about the first thing I looked at......only have to caught by that one once...............and Oldkoot, the gauges are going in a.s.a.p to get a real honest reading. But last Sunday, when the oil and anti-freeze were "crackling" on the intake, I figger she was pretty hot.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

too bad ur so far away, i know i could diagnose ur problem if i was there

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Well alright! Got the rad back, installed it with new hoses, topped up the anti-freeze and took her for a spin. Boys, she'll go all day at 20 or 120 and never break a sweat now. Stays nice and cool. Still gonna build a shroud though.....and install those gauges too. Thanks for all the suggestions.

SD66 · AYLMER, ONT

Remember for every 1lb of rad cap pressure , it increases the boiling piont by 3 degrees f. So a 6 -7 lb cap biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin smile

rat39 · Member

I had a similar problem years ago with a mid 70's pk,tryed everything but it persisted to over heat under load.Turned out that the lower rad is supposed to have a wire coil in it to keep it from collapsing.We just happened to be watching under the hood one day and someone saw the hose collapsing a bit when we revved it a little,threw a coil in and problem was solved.Hey you never know.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Well so far Bob it's been good, but if she starts to act up I'll keep a look out for your suggestion. How's the truck coming?

rat39 · Member

slow but sure,it takes me for ever to make a final decision on everything,e.g. routing of the fuel lines,try them this way try them that ponder awhile then fret over making the wrong choice