Camero to leave GM Oshawa

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Camero to leave GM Oshawa

DaveM · ONTARIO

hemi43 wrote:
First of all, get your facts straight before you start trying to spead doom&gloom rumors !!
The Camaro is built on a flex line that also builds the Buick Reagal as well as the new Caddilac. Now that the Camaro has been out for a few years, the market is saturated with them, so it will only be a low volume seller anyway. Just because they are moving the Camaro to the States does not mean that they are shutting down the whole plant/line.
Pete, quit listening to the media !! You're old enough to know better !!

-- Edited by hemi43 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 01:41:43 PM

It's spelled REGAL!!! biggrin

And don't forget about the 2014 Impala on that line next July. The equipement is already in and running.

The Camaro moves to the new Alpha platform. Whole new chassis, that is 800lbs lighter.

Yes GM Oshawa is a shell of what it used to be with an uncertain future, but we need it.

-- Edited by DaveM on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 03:17:18 PM

-- Edited by DaveM on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 03:19:41 PM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/canadian-press-newsalert-gm-canadas-loses-camaro-production-171920910.html

-- Edited by hemi43 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 04:26:58 PM

Someone · BOWMANVILLE, ONT

The Camaro isn't leaving 'overnight'. It's gonna be built here until the end of it's cycle, when the new one comes out in a couple of years then it goes to Michigan. The current Camaro has a couple years left yet. Makes sense that GM is moving it where they are anyways, they'll build all the rwd's in the same plant, it's logical imo. I heard somewhere that theres supposed to be another Caddy (XTS) coming to Oshawa anyways. CTV really hyped up the doom and gloom at 6pm over the Camaros going, pathetic fear mongering.

The Holden's and Impalas are totally different cars, i have done alot of work on the Holden Caprice cop cars, i wouldn't bet on Australia letting too much of their cars they build there getting moved to N.A. anytime soon. They are still peeved at GM canning the Pontiac line. New Impala is still gonna be fwd with no V8 that i have heard of yet, the Holden stuff will be rwd.

-- Edited by Jeep4752 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 06:20:30 PM

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

CTV just broke the story that the Camero is leaving Osh. & production to go to a plant in Michigan. Contract was only "good" to end of currant yr.?? They said 2000 will be let go but I think that's a little high?? I said before 'give GM a couple of yrs. more here & Oshawa will be gone, & become a new subdivision!! Land is worth too much to have it as a Mfg. plant.

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

Yes and anyone that thinks their job is secure here in Canada should open their eyes when it comes to mfg. Those days are long gone and I bet within another five years you will see many of the unions gone too. It is sad to see but things are going to get a lot tougher and times are going to be a lot harder. It is reality and we are all in for a reality check. JMO though.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

It's spelled CAMARO !! Geezz

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Doesn't matter how it's spelled now, IT"S GONE!!!!!

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

Lets face it, the UAW got on board with the US auto companies years ago, the CAW continues the adversarial role from the 60's, so who would you want to do business with? It's obvious GM is tired of the CAW mentality, too bad the employees are the ones to pay the price. Just last week Michigan passed the right to work bill so you'll find more jobs moving to the Motorcity.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Good point there old Koot, never thought of that playing into the scene!!!

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

Well what about the Chineese plant that GM owns and partnerd with China. I know they say that is for the Chineese market. But can someone tell me why they ship completed sheet metal panels and electronics to the USA. and why have the chineese bought up over 1/2 of the U.S suppliers to GM across the USA. I dont recall what I was watching possibly W5 or a show like that where they did a documentery and what they predicted just happend in Oshawa 100 to 800 workers at a time with no return dates then bring back a few then lay more off and so on.. Does anyone know exactly what percentage of parts are off shore and shipped to the USA?? I think most would be alarmed at the percentage.

How the heck can GM cry poor and are spending Billions overseas ? And then have the nerve to ask for federal assistance. And all of this right in front of the governments eyes.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

DaveM wrote:
hemi43 wrote:
First of all, get your facts straight before you start trying to spead doom&gloom rumors !!
The Camaro is built on a flex line that also builds the Buick Reagal as well as the new Caddilac. Now that the Camaro has been out for a few years, the market is saturated with them, so it will only be a low volume seller anyway. Just because they are moving the Camaro to the States does not mean that they are shutting down the whole plant/line.
Pete, quit listening to the media !! You're old enough to know better !!

-- Edited by hemi43 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 01:41:43 PM
It's spelled REGAL!!!
And don't forget about the 2014 Impala on that line next July. The equipement is already in and running.
The Camaro moves to the new Alpha platform. Whole new chassis, that is 800lbs lighter.
Yes GM Oshawa is a shell of what it used to be with an uncertain future, but we need it.

-- Edited by DaveM on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 03:17:18 PM

-- Edited by DaveM on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 03:19:41 PM

If you look at my post, I intentionally spelled Regal and Cadillac wrong but figured no one would pick up on it, so I changed it. Since we're nit picking, it's spelled "equipment" biggrin

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Modfather wrote:
Well what about the Chineese plant that GM owns and partnerd with China. I know they say that is for the Chineese market. But can someone tell me why they ship completed sheet metal panels and electronics to the USA. and why have the chineese bought up over 1/2 of the U.S suppliers to GM across the USA. I dont recall what I was watching possibly W5 or a show like that where they did a documentery and what they predicted just happend in Oshawa 100 to 800 workers at a time with no return dates then bring back a few then lay more off and so on.. Does anyone know exactly what percentage of parts are off shore and shipped to the USA?? I think most would be alarmed at the percentage.

How the heck can GM cry poor and are spending Billions overseas ? And then have the nerve to ask for federal assistance. And all of this right in front of the governments eyes.

The Camaro is only about 60% North American. The amount of Chinese parts in it is sickening !! I try to buy Domestic stuff, but when you hear of crap like this, it just makes you want to shake your head !!.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I doubt the 2014 Impala will come to Oshawa, Gm is bringing in the Holden from Austrailia & I think if it catches on the Impala will be a "dead duck" too!! Nascar is going to run it[Holden] in the up-coming season instead of the Impala!!! Equinox & sister vehicle will likely go to where the Saturn was built,[in USA] so Tilsonberg plant will be done & Osh. line too!!! Old Koot has it pegged, the "right too work" in Mich. will do us in here in Oshawa. Neighbours son was let go from GM. Osh. plant last mth. even though he was on the lower wage scale!!!They'll whittle it down to 'close up"

DaveM · ONTARIO

I remember driving by that plant when I was a kid thinking that it would be cool to go on a tour of the place. confuse

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

dualquadpete wrote:
I doubt the 2014 Impala will come to Oshawa, Gm is bringing in the Holden from Austrailia & I think if it catches on the Impala will be a "dead duck" too!! Nascar is going to run it[Holden] in the up-coming season instead of the Impala!!! Equinox & sister vehicle will likely go to where the Saturn was built,[in USA] so Tilsonberg plant will be done & Osh. line too!!! Old Koot has it pegged, the "right too work" in Mich. will do us in here in Oshawa. Neighbours son was let go from GM. Osh. plant last mth. even though he was on the lower wage scale!!!They'll whittle it down to 'close up"

Corporate Greed

DaveM · ONTARIO

They already build the new Caddy XTS on the same line as the Camaro. The next Impala is built on the same platform(chassis) as the XTS.

Chevrolet and NASCAR are debuting the SS this season, but, there is not one production part on it. And guess what...you can't have one. So much for win on Sunday ,sell on Monday.The car is not coming here 'til '14. It will be imported from Australia in limited quantities and held to a high end sport sedan, not a 300,000 unit a year commuter car.

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

CAW said today they feel betrayed!

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

You would think by now that the CAW Union,Cdn. & workers would take GM's promise's just like a Politician's promise's, not worth the paper they "WEREN'T" written on!!! Do they really think they are untouchable in todays global mrkt. & that GM head office will not take the jobs back across the border when it suits them, wage difference, right to work laws, less benifits etc.Time to take your head out of the sand [or elsewhere] & look outside of GM's cachoun[ Oshawa plant] & see what's going on around you!!! From my yrs. of delivering parts there, the GM workers have no idea what the "real world" is like outside their own little world.

-- Edited by dualquadpete on Thursday 20th of December 2012 08:20:51 AM

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Im not surprised.....$34.00 per hour to put 4 bolts and a clip on a car every 50 seconds 700 times a day....get the Ikea monkey

Everybody wants to make the most money and pay the least amount....the math does not work.

Everybody hates Walmart....but they still go....... they want cheap stuff (except Hemi....he'll pay 10 times more for the same thing made in NA) He is one of the VERY FEW (and I bet he's been in a walmart a time or 2)

Years ago when minimum wage went front $6.75 to $10.25 it was supposed to help McDonald's workers buy houses and live the good life.

hahahahahahahaahhohohohohhehehehehehehe the only thing it did was raise the cost of a big mac from $1.99 to $4.99 and any money they increased whent to pay for the NEW EXPENSIVE Big Mac

Same with cars...69 camaro was about $3,500 ......now a base model is $35,000 and they have 7 YEAR PLANS so people can afford it.....

Get used to companies leaving Canada.....its been happening for years.....but in the next few years they will be flocking to whatever country will make thier product the cheapest.

I laff at people who say "Greedy Companies" Last time I checked....companies were supposed to make money.

Tell me about someone you know that started a business .........to lose money

NEVER

Dave M....dont waste your time on a tour...... just a bunch of ungrateful, unenthusiastic people who could care less..... watching the clock to get out and spend the outrageous amount of money they made

Doing a job "Darwin" could do in his sleep.

-- Edited by Grumpsbodyworks on Thursday 20th of December 2012 10:38:53 AM

-- Edited by Grumpsbodyworks on Thursday 20th of December 2012 10:46:47 AM

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Use the right bait.....and the fish will bite every time......

ROFLMFAO!

Surprising from a stickler like you .....but I never used the word lazy.... but it was on the tip of my fingers....

You were clearly a "Union Man"...probably shop steward if not ......district manager for the union....something

FYI sorry to disappoint....but I have never been a bodyman (its only a hobby) grumpy? sometimes ...

I'm just a business man trying to make a buck in todays economy just like everyone else...

except union employees who figure it's thier right to make more every year.....and boo hoo when they don't. (i'm not getting a raise for the next 3 years....boo hoo i'm only getting a $1,500 signing bonus)

Every company, especialy the auto industry, devote huge resources to deal the unions and the useless hoard that hide behind the "Union Skirt".

Thier day will come....see USA Michigan "Right to work" hear the unions scream...soon it will flow up here.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ hear that....its another cast.........lol

-- Edited by Grumpsbodyworks on Thursday 20th of December 2012 11:47:46 AM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Just because I was a member of a union, does not mean I was a Steward or that I had union flags waving from my car ( Rebel flag on my roof doesn't count) I'm not an extremist !! Nor have I been brainwashed by them because I can see their crooked antics just like everyone else. You seem to forget that the Unions do a lot of good too !! Like Modfather said, they were good at the beginning and then got out of hand.
If it wasn't for Unions, greedy business people with your mindset would have everyone working for minimum wage while they rake in the millions. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we cannot have a decent standard of living with everyone making $10 an hour.

-- Edited by hemi43 on Thursday 20th of December 2012 01:24:21 PM

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

The CAW did it to themselves over a long period of time. Reality check

hemi43 · ONTARIO

dualquadpete wrote:
You would think by now that the CAW Union,Cdn. & workers would take GM's promise's just like a Politician's promise's, not worth the paper they "WEREN'T" written on!!! Do they really think they are untouchable in todays global mrkt. & that GM head office will not take the jobs back across the border when it suits them, wage difference, right to work laws, less benifits etc.Time to take your head out of the sand [or elsewhere] & look outside of GM's cachoun[ Oshawa plant] & see what's going on around you!!! From my yrs. of delivering parts there, the GM workers have no idea what the "real world" is like outside their own little world.

-- Edited by dualquadpete on Thursday 20th of December 2012 08:20:51 AM

Sounds like Pete is a little pissed off that he was stuck in a truck cab all his life when GM turned down his job application !!

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I never claimed I would spend 10 times for something made here. There's no need to because stuff made here is really not that much more expensive. Have I been in Walmart? Yup, everytime I go to the States because I don't know where else to buy my supplies for the week/weekend. I'm not that much of a hard ass !!

The rest of your rant I just shake my head at. That Camaro example you gave us is nonsense. It's cheaper to buy a Camaro today than it was back in 69' , and you're getting 10 times the car !! If you're going to blame the high price of vehicles today on the lazy Union workers, well I have news for you !! If the people making these cars worked for free, the price of that car would be between $900 and $1500 less!!

That last comment you made just proved to me that you're just an old disgruntled grumpy body man that just hates seeing someone else do better than himself with the same level of education ! period !!

I can't wait to hear DaveM's reply to your nonsense !!

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

First of all I dont think the union workers are lazy. well maybe a few but you get that anywhere it is just human nature. It still boils down to the union and brain washing the members. Yes I said it. I know the unions helped in the very beginning but over time and time proves it look what is happening. From rags to riches and now back to rags. I am thankful I do not live in the Oshawa area and have the $500,000.00 dollar mortage, as well as the cost of living on top of that. Now what? Lets face it there are not many $34.00 an hour jobs in the real world. You are lucky to find jobs that pay minimum wage to $20.00 per hour unless of course you are educated, have a degree in something and have connections. If anything I feel for these workers thinking and beliveing the dream that the CAW has enstowed upon them over the years. The important thing is it is just not the CAW it is all unions. Our government I belive has a mandate to break them and it is working slowly just as it was planned. Oh but wait once you have hit rock bottom the governmet will look afrter you, Yup the will send you back to school give you enough cash to just barley survive in hope you will not have to collect welfare at the end. Doom and Gloom you say call it what you want. I am spending my Christmas Day this year not with my family but helping others that are less fortunate than I am. These are people that had good jobs and many of them well educated and certainly not lazy. Now they find hard times. I am not religous I just see the need to give a little to the less fortunate in there time of need.

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Disgruntled old body man....or greedy business man.....what will you call me next?

How much should we make so everyone can afford a $500,000 house in town and a $45,000 pick up ?

Or should we learn to live within our means?

Should everybody make the same money? No matter what thier skill sets are?

Should auto workers make $34.00 p/h putting 4 screws and a clip on a car?

With your way of thinking some guy putting 4 screws and a clip on a shovel should make the same....same screws....same clip right?

Be honest with yourself...You may have been a tradesman....should auto workers make the same as you without any special skillsets?

Should auto workers make the same as Plumbers? Electricians? Mechanics? .....that have put in years to learn a trade and passed tests?

Auto workers are not skilled....they are trained to do the job.....4 screws and a clip

Anybody would do thier job for $20 an hour and be happier than a pig in Ottawa

They have priced themselves out of the market....because of themselves Expensive homes and cars and and and and and......

To do a job the monkey could be trained to do......

Train a cat to crap in a box and he will do it every time.... Train an auto worker to install 4 screws and a clip and he'll do it every time.

But the cat wont claim WSIB, go on strike, take sick days or whine about more money. The cats just happy to have a box to crap in.

BTW...re-read what you just sent to me....."Crooked Union antics..... Out of hand...Brainwashed by them"

Remember.....if your not happy with the job you have.....quit. Get a better education and get a better job.

NOBODY IS FORCING THESE PEOPLE TO WORK FOR THE BAD CAR COMPANY

(they do so because they would never make the same money anywhere else for what they do....and they know it)

Greedy business people? really? I put everything I own on the line to start a business....sacrafice time from my family .....working hours nobody

else would to keep the company going. Paying employees before myself.....Employees punch in...punch out without anything invested.....and when

the company finaly starts to make money....I'm a greedy businessman? They have nothing invested....but when the company starts to make money

they have thier hand out? Really? Really?

No Risk....No Reward. Big Risk.....Big Reward

Or are you advocating a communist scociaty? Where everyone makes the same and lives the same no matter what they do?

Should everybody make the same amount of money regardless of their skillset? or Should people earn an living based on thier abillities?

I don't think your a communist.....your a capitalist....you work hard....you have earned your money...and you have toys that, that ability has

allowed you....correct? Nice hotrod by the way

Canadian Auto workers are overpaid for thier skillsets and the company is moving the jobs where it make business sense to make money PERIOD!

Thats my rant for the day!....comments Hemi?

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Do line worker get overpaid for what they do? Absolutely !! Should they make $14 an hour? Hell no !! No Adult should have to work for that kind of money !!
Living within your means making minimum wage is difficult to do in this Country when the average price for a house is almost $400,000 , even with 2 incomes!!
I'm a tradesman, went to College, did a 4 year apprenticeship but you still labelled me as , quote "just a bunch of ungrateful, unenthusiastic people who could care less..... watching the clock to get out and spend the outrageous amount of money they made".
How can you label me like that just because I work for a Union?

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Whoa the bus hemi. Please cut and paste the line where i said that about ALL UNION PEOPLE. No. Just the auto workers. I have been in almost every auto plant in north america and they all have the same thing in comon. Workers making too much money for the effort they put in with a I COULD CARE LESS ATTITUDE

I nver said they should work for $14 but you say NO ADULT SHOULD WORK FOR $14. Well ? How much should everbody make? Tell me please. Because i see alot of adults working at Timmies and MacDonalds. Should they make $14. Or more?

Please let me know

DaveM · ONTARIO

hemi43 wrote:

I can't wait to hear DaveM's reply to your nonsense !!

It's like that time when the trash truck hit the bridge and overturned on the 401. There was so much garbage spewed everywhere I just turned around and went home.

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Your a wise man Dave

Opinions are like azzholes. Everyone has one!

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

From what I see, most of the guys live in the "golden triangle", so maybe you need to make the big bucks to live there? Now go into Michigan, house prices are 1/2, food is 1/2 the price, gas is 25% less and dropping, Hydro is probably cheaper but I don't have the numbers, so could I live as well there on half the income, you bet!! So should GM keep the high paying jobs in Canada when they could drop the labor component to 1/2? As a society in general, prices have gotten out of control, might be time for a MAJOR correction? Just my take on things.

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

oldkoot wrote:
From what I see, most of the guys live in the "golden triangle", so maybe you need to make the big bucks to live there? Now go into Michigan, house prices are 1/2, food is 1/2 the price, gas is 25% less and dropping, Hydro is probably cheaper but I don't have the numbers, so could I live as well there on half the income, you bet!! So should GM keep the high paying jobs in Canada when they could drop the labor component to 1/2? As a society in general, prices have gotten out of control, might be time for a MAJOR correction? Just my take on things.

Good ideas....

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

MY turn, never applied to work at GM as I likely couldn't stand the B/S of doing as little as possible,for the big pay cheque. I saw more than enough of the "slackers" there & at Ontario Hydro when i was making delivery's to both places. Hydro fork lift driver would stop 1/2 way out of trailer & go to rest area that was A/C "cause he had a 'bead" of sweat, trailer was TOO HOT to unload"!!Same deal at GM but they'd stop on the last lift, leaving me stuck there till they decided to come back & I had 22 deliverys to do!!! At that time I was making $13 / hr & they were in the mid $20's but I had the responsibilty of wheeling a 48' tractor trailer thru traffic & backing in places where it would "just fit" In my "eye" the wages should have been the other way around!!!When we were with the teamsters I heard more crap & grievences about the least little thing that we used to do with out being dragged over the coals by the "new" guys that transfered in when the Union came in!!! Less than 6mths we were all out of work as the Co, pulled the plug!!!

DaveM · ONTARIO

Grumpsbodyworks wrote:
Your a wise man Dave

Well that's all I really need out of life.

I'll keep my 28 years in the auto industry out of it. Nothing to be gained here.

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

I worked in a car plant (AMC) for 9 years...started at $4/hr...was making about $12 when I left, so you can tell when that was...1970s.....Was considered good money then. I had to get out...it was driving me crazy with the monotony......

Now, I work part time as a delivery driver.....$12/hr.....but I'm happy

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Grumpsbodyworks wrote:
Whoa the bus hemi. Please cut and paste the line where i said that about ALL UNION PEOPLE. No. Just the auto workers. I have been in almost every auto plant in north america and they all have the same thing in comon. Workers making too much money for the effort they put in with a I COULD CARE LESS ATTITUDE

I nver said they should work for $14 but you say NO ADULT SHOULD WORK FOR $14. Well ? How much should everbody make? Tell me please. Because i see alot of adults working at Timmies and MacDonalds. Should they make $14. Or more?

Please let me know

This conversation is like mud wrestling with a pig, eventually you realize the pig likes it !!

So your problem is with Auto Workers, not Unions !! Why didn't you say that before ?? But where I get confused is that Tradesmen that work for the big 3 are also Auto Workers !! Do they get included in the "Lazy good for nothing useless ungrateful unenthusiastic people who could care less", or is there another blanket statement for them?

I also see adults working at Timmies and McDonalds, but who are they? Are they retired ex-government employees drawing a pension and are working there just so they're not bored at home? Or are they single Mothers trying to make ends meet in this over taxed province?

When was the last time you visited a car plant? I think you would be shocked at how difficult it is to work on an assembly line !! I know I couldn't do it !! That's why I got a trade and got a good paying job. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Union or not, the pay would have been the same ! Unlike your blanket statement I did not blow all my money on all the toys and the $500,000 mortgage, and it has paid off for me. I'm retired 48 years old ,debt free and have a trade that I can use if I ever get complacent. This was not handed to me because of a Union, I worked hard for it !!

spinner43 · NEW DUNDEE, ONT

Both of your are correct in many ways. The auto sector workers are making too much money and have driven many companies out of the country. Sterling and International are gone and then the suppliers such as Michelin and Budd Canada, all gone and won't be back. John Deere the oldest manufacturing plant in Canada is gone to Mexico. The wages made the product uncompetitive but not all unions are that way. The Technicians I manage are part of CUPE and make a good wage but less than a dealership. There are many unionized companies that do not pay an exorbitant wage. There are also many out there making minimum wage still, $10.25, and don't say they are not qualified, lazy or stupid it is what is available to feed their family. With manufacturing leaving it also affects all the support companies as well. Trades are a thing of the past and being a trades person Hemi you should know there are very few kids coming into the trades. Our work force is aging and not too many high school kids want to work manual labour, in a trade or in a factory.

spinner43 · NEW DUNDEE, ONT

Got pulled away. I feel all wages need a review with people being paid fairly to what they need for qualifications, equipment, physical requirements and years of service. GM should shuttle the plant just to teach them a lesson that their job is not a given right but a chance to make very good money that should be appreciated. But on the other hand the product they build is second to none.

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

I know you guys are talking specifically about the auto manufacturing business but it isn't just the payroll that is killing manufacturing in Canada. The company I used to work for is based out of the States with production in both Canada and the US. When the Canadian dollar was at 70cents (to the American dollar) they were happy ... however, they warned us that if it ever reaches par again (and it did), they would have no choice but to move all production to the States. Interestingly they have now moved most production from the States to China.

Was this a money losing company that had to do this in order to survive? Nope, private company and the family owners are billionaires (third generation of the man who started the business from scratch) and the production of their product was profitable both in Canada and the US.

They were profitable, are true billionaires, were employing many people both in Canada and the US, yet decided they needed to move production to China ... I can only assume greed was behind the move ...

I should also mention this was not a union shop.

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

The last plant I was in was ford in chicago 2 yeara ago.

Everybody has a point.

The bottom line is canadian wages are too high in the international market place.

In 2009-10 there has been a huge adjustment in the private sector as far as wages are concerned. If you have been lucky enough to have. The same job the last few years without a rollback in wages. Count yourself lucky

If you were not and got downsized then you Will know you have work harder for less money. Thats a fact.

The auto workers have been artificialy subsidized with the goverment giving insentives to car companies to stay in ontario. The subsidies. That you and i have paid for with tax dollars. Are coming to an end and ontario is not competative compared to the us market that has been more adaptive.

As i said before they are here to make money and if they dont they will go where they can.

Canda gave millions. The usa gave billions. Where do you think they have loyalties?

$34 per hour for 4 screws and a clip?

Mexico? $10 and. 2 meals a day. Where are they going to?

I would rather have some pie than none. But the caw wants the whole pie and they think its thier right!

Well see

hemi43 · ONTARIO

flatduck wrote:
well if you want a union job and think you ll get rich be ready to drop off 40 % of your pay for all the deduction .......that s like $12.00 and hour gone ..........at 40 hours a week ya the auto workers really doesn t have any cost..................show me now a small business who gets lucky like the auto worker and pays 33 % tax every year ........no they get tax right off for every expenses

Owning a small business will almost always be a life struggle, and that's why I didn't choose that path in life. If I was just starting out today, things would be very different, because it will be impossible for the upcoming generation to be able to work for a company for 30+ years and have a good standard of living. Those days are over !! Today, you have to own your own medium to large business and have others work for you, not the other way around.

-- Edited by hemi43 on Saturday 22nd of December 2012 06:24:51 PM

VirgilHilts · BELWOOD, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
It's spelled CAMARO !! Geezz

I thought it was spelled C R A P M A R O lol!

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

well sure is lot of people against people getting paid and specially union guy .................well i worked where there was a union all my life ................in 1965 i was 11 years old ......my dad own is own body shop ....prices for paint jobs $75.00 to $150 .00......material and labor .............now tell me who s wages i up or over paid .........nobody won t even talk to you in a body shop unless there s $6000.00 TO $10,000.00 DOLLARS SO WHO S MAKING THE BIG ..........THAT POOR AUTO WORKER really looks nice with $34.00 after i you knock all deduction ............may be i should just pay the shipping to mexico for my car and get themm to paint it and i ll still be under the $6000.00

Chris58 · WATERFORD, ONT

Wow. A contentious issue for sure. Here's my 2 cents.
When I was 17 my Dad got me in the Ford Plant in Oakville for the summer. The thought of making BIG money was awesome. My Dad was an immigrant from Hungary and lucked out with this job in 1966. The union wage was such that he could raise a family of 4 plus his wife. Mum never worked. They struggled. Dad worked hard as that was what you did where he came from. I watched them struggle each time he got laid off, especially through the 70's and 80's. It happened a lot. But it was good money. He retired after 34 years there and enjoys a good pension that keeps getting cut back, along with his benefits.
On my way into the plant the first night, I thought I was embarking on my career like the old man. Fortunately for me, it was a nightmare, as I thought, "I'm not doing THIS for the rest of my life!" I went to college on the money I made that summer and the following summers. I got a job in my field and worked my arse off for someone else. He treated me well as a small business owner, but as he got more successful, he got greedy and treated us like crap. We brought a union into the shop (not my decision). As the most senior guy there, I became the union steward and rep for negotiations. A crappy, stressful gig that I would never do again. Once the union was in, it got worse and we all quit. Then I started my own business and have been self employed for 15 years. I do service and sales in the manufacturing industry. I've always been envious of the wages union workers make, but I wouldn't change my fortunes for their futures. We are losing customers almost weekly as US-owned companies keep leaving the country. Small business will be all that's left if we don't stop the bleeding.
Socialism and capitalism are ugly words. Saying that, do I deserve better health care than my neighbour? Does he not need the same things out of life that I do? Does a doctor crap that much differently than a school teacher or a janitor? No. We all deserve a certain standard of living, its just some of us drive ourselves more than others and some have luckier breaks than others (like a father who works on the line).
Don't blame the workers. Blame the companies, the unions and the government. Yep, change is coming. And it won't be pretty. We're all in this together. "Buy local" is the best way to keep our corner of the world in the best shape possible, and , ya, it ain't always easy to do so, and isn't always the cheapest.
Realise that it is a HUGE endeavor to recognise what is Canadian and what is smoke-up-the-a$$. I drink micro-brewed beer for the variety, taste and flavours, AND they're run and owned by locals! Neither Labatt's, Molson's nor Sleeman's are Canadian-owned. In fact, they're not even North American-owned. How do you like your Blue or Coors Light now?
Watch what you buy and think of your neighbour. And...PEEL OUT!

-- Edited by Chris58 on Saturday 22nd of December 2012 10:24:49 PM

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I think what 'ticks' most people off about the Auto workers & their Unions is the sense of Entitlement that they have. Workers think they Run the plant & can't get fired, Unions "back" them up in this attitude & go to bat for the worker that should "clearly" be shown the door!! I know a few people at the Oshawa plant that got caught stealing, leaving early [for just about a yr.] before getting caught, fork lift & maintaince persons sleeping on the job ETC.& not one of them lost their job & some even got paid for the time they were off the job while grievience was being done!!!!Come back to work the HERO didn't get touched!!! Now that "FRIES" my A$$ as in the private sector you would be gone so quick, your head would spin & if theft, you would be charged!!!My question is is short, WHY???

hemi43 · ONTARIO

dualquadpete wrote:
I think what 'ticks' most people off about the Auto workers & their Unions is the sense of Entitlement that they have. Workers think they Run the plant & can't get fired, Unions "back" them up in this attitude & go to bat for the worker that should "clearly" be shown the door!! I know a few people at the Oshawa plant that got caught stealing, leaving early [for just about a yr.] before getting caught, fork lift & maintaince persons sleeping on the job ETC.& not one of them lost their job & some even got paid for the time they were off the job while grievience was being done!!!!Come back to work the HERO didn't get touched!!! Now that "FRIES" my A$$ as in the private sector you would be gone so quick, your head would spin & if theft, you would be charged!!!My question is is short, WHY???

That stuff used to happen many years ago but things are much different today !! Actually, stuff like that happened in any large company with many employees not just GM or with Union labor. Ask someone that works in GM today what working conditions are like in there !! I think you will be surprised as how strict the rules are. If the emplyees were such F-ups like you're labeling them, then how is it possible for that Oshawa plant to pump out such amazing vehicles?? It was rated the best plant in North America, don't forget.

flatblack55delivery · PORT HOPE, ONT

So what is the cost to do the job for the poor guy only making $34hr at GM.Does he pay to buy the tools he uses,the materal,heat,hydro,ins other than union dues what is his cost to do his job.The body guy,and other trades people , pays all these things plus licences and permits,then whatever is left over is take home.Most small business owners that I know have to cut the prices of job quotes to stay competive,do union workers on a daily basis have to cut there labour rates to stay on the job.Union workers get the $34 every hour they work.Small business owners may not have a paying customer every day,but the utitilty bills are there every day.We have good weeks and lots of really bad weeks,while I belive union guys pretty much know what the cheque is going to be every week,unless there is overtime of course.Oh ya I forgot layoffs and shut downs, no pay right,wrong I belive its called sub,other workers its called hungry. Ed

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Working at GM is a good job and of course it has it's benefits. Getting hired there is like winning a lottery because there's usually only one job for every 10 applicants. You made a choice in life, Ed ! You decided to open up a small appliance business in a small town. Of course you will never make as much as someone working at GM. If you wanted to work there, you should have applied. If you didn't want to work there, then live with the choices you made in life. At least you don't have a boss breathing down your neck when you're at work.

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

well if you want a union job and think you ll get rich be ready to drop off 40 % of your pay for all the deduction .......that s like $12.00 and hour gone ..........at 40 hours a week ya the auto workers really doesn t have any cost..................show me now a small business who gets lucky like the auto worker and pays 33 % tax every year ........no they get tax right off for every expenses