Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: New Bill introduced into the legislater by the Liberals..Bill #173..Heads up here


ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
Date:
New Bill introduced into the legislater by the Liberals..Bill #173..Heads up here
Permalink  
 


     This is a new and very quiet bill being introduced which really is misleading as all the talk and controversy is on new fines and penaltys for distrated driving using hand held devices ..but this bill also has a lot of in ti that will effect hot-rodders..concerning Saftey inspections ..They may be coming to a realisation that they will soon have give up e-test due to public outcry of an totatly sick and tired public of this blatant rip-off..so they are going to set up government Vehicle inspection stations ..Pay attention to this bill and read it over in it's entirety as it has the potential to remove rat-rods from the road and many other types of vehicles ..Google and read the bill in it's entirerty it is complicated and confusing written by lawyers and lawmakers and politicians but it looks to me like this would bad for us car guys..lets see some some discussion or how anybody else reads this..

NO BULLCHIT..NO FIGHTING...NO DUMB A$$ COMMENTS IF YOU CAN'T ADD SOME USEFULL QUESTIONS OR HAVE SOME VALUABLE INPUT THEN pI$$ OFF...and quit wasting every bodys time... Thank-you

Maybe I am miss reading or interpreting this wrong ..I hope so thats why I posted it when I discovered and read this..It was just intruduced into the legislater last week..I think we need to get behind this and protest to our MPs if it is saying what I am percieving it to read...

 

100.1 (1) The Minister may make regulations,

(a) governing the transition from the motor vehicle inspection station system, as set out in sections 88 to 100, to the vehicle inspection centre system, as set out in sections 100.2 to 100.8;

(b) governing, for purposes of transition, the application or the partial application of portions of the vehicle inspection centre system to the motor vehicle inspection station system.

Regulation prevails

(2) Where there is a conflict between a regulation made under subsection (1) and the Act, the regulation prevails.

Notice

(3) The Ministry may give notice to any person holding a motor vehicle inspection station licence,

(a) requiring that the person return to the Ministry any forms or materials received from the Ministry;

(b) setting out the time within which the person must return the forms or materials; and

(c) requiring the person to retain the records specified in the notice for the period of time specified in the notice.

Same

(4) The notice may be served by a method prescribed by a regulation made under subsection (1) and the notice is deemed to be served within the time period prescribed by a regulation made under subsection (1).

Deemed service

(5) Where the notice is deemed to be served within the time period prescribed by regulation, it shall be deemed to have been served within that time in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

Compliance

(6) A person to whom a notice is given shall comply with the provisions of the notice.

(2) Section 100.1 of the Act, as enacted by subsection (1), is repealed.

23. The Act is amended by adding the following sections:

Ministry program for the inspection of vehicles and the issuance of certificates

100.2 (1) The Minister may establish a program to provide for the inspection of vehicles and the issuance of safety standards certificates, structural inspection certificates, annual inspection certificates and stickers and semi-annual inspection certificates and stickers and other types of proof of inspection.

Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards

(2) The Minister may appoint a Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards to administer the program.

Agreements with service providers

(3) The Minister may enter into agreements with service providers to assist with the administration of the program.

Agreements to operate vehicle inspection centres

(4) The Minister may,

(a) enter into agreements that authorize persons to operate vehicle inspection centres under the program; and

(b) authorize one or more service providers to enter into agreements that authorize persons to operate vehicle inspection centres under the program.

Not a Crown agent

(5) A vehicle inspection centre is not an agent of the Crown.

Same

(6) A service provider is not an agent of the Crown, except as may be provided by the service provider agreement.

Collection, use and disclosure of information

(7) A service provider is authorized to collect, use and disclose information, including personal information within the meaning of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, for the purpose of providing services under this Act, but the service provider shall exercise this authority solely in accordance with the applicable service provider agreement.

Crown not liable for acts of a vehicle inspection centre or service provider

100.3 (1) No action or other proceeding shall be instituted against the Crown, the Minister, the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards or any other official or employee in the Ministry for any act of a vehicle inspection centre or service provider, or an employee or agent of a vehicle inspection centre or service provider, in the execution or intended execution of a power, duty or responsibility provided for under this Act or for an alleged neglect or default in the execution or intended execution of a power, duty or responsibility provided for under this Act.

Crown not liable for acts done in good faith under this Act

(2) No action or other proceeding shall be instituted against the Minister, the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards or any other official or employee in the Ministry for any act done in good faith in the execution or intended execution of a power or duty under this Act or for any alleged neglect or default in the execution in good faith of a power or duty under this Act.

Exception

(3) Despite subsections 5 (2) and (4) of the Proceedings Against the Crown Act, subsection (2) does not relieve the Crown of liability in respect of a tort committed by a person mentioned in subsection (2) to which it would otherwise be subject.

24. The Act is amended by adding the following sections:

Prohibitions

No false statement or inaccurate information

100.4 (1) No person shall make a false statement or include inaccurate information or permit the making of a false statement or the including of inaccurate information,

(a) in any certificate or sticker or other type of proof of inspection referred to in subsection 100.2 (1); or

(b) in any application or other document submitted, directly or indirectly, to the Ministry or provided to a customer.

Registered technicians

(2) No person shall determine whether or not a vehicle meets the standards for issuance of a certificate or sticker or other type of proof of inspection other than a technician registered with the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards.

Accredited vehicle inspection centres

(3) No person shall issue, or permit the issuance of, any certificate or sticker or other type of proof of inspection unless,

(a) it is issued by a registered technician after an inspection conducted in accordance with the inspection procedures that are prescribed by regulation or set out in a directive issued under section 100.7 in a vehicle inspection centre accredited by the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards; and

(b) the vehicle meets the equipment and performance standards that are prescribed by regulation or set out in a directive issued under section 100.7.

Provided or approved forms

(4) No person shall use any form or type of certificate or sticker or other type of proof of inspection other than a form, type or proof provided by or approved by the Ministry.

Inspectors

100.5 (1) The Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards may appoint, in writing, one or more persons as vehicle inspection standards inspectors.

Certificate of appointment

(2) The Director shall issue every vehicle inspection standards inspector a certificate of appointment and every inspector who is acting in the execution of his or her duties shall produce his or her certificate of appointment upon request.

Admissibility of copies

(3) A copy of any record of a vehicle inspection centre that purports to be certified by a vehicle inspection standards inspector is admissible in evidence in any proceeding or prosecution as proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of the original.

Obstruction

(4) No person shall obstruct a vehicle inspection standards inspector or withhold, destroy, conceal or refuse to furnish any information or thing required by the inspector for the purposes of carrying out his or her duties.

25. The Act is amended by adding the following section:

Offences

100.6 (1) Any person who contravenes subsection 100.1 (6), section 100.4 or subsection 100.5 (4) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $400 and not more than $20,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than 30 days, or to both.

Limitation period

(2) No proceeding for an offence under this section may be instituted more than two years after the facts on which the proceeding is based are alleged to have occurred.

Report on conviction to Director

(3) A provincial judge or justice of the peace who makes a conviction for an offence under this section or any regulation made under it, or the clerk of the court in which the conviction is made, shall forthwith certify the conviction to the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards setting out the name, address and description of the person convicted and the provision contravened under this Act.

26. The Act is amended by adding the following sections:

Directives

100.7 (1) The Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards may make directives,

(a) governing the issuance of safety standards certificates, structural inspection certificates, annual inspection certificates and stickers and semi-annual inspection certificates and stickers and other types of proof of inspection;

(b) governing inspection procedures; and

(c) governing equipment and performance standards that must be met before a certificate, sticker or other proof of inspection mentioned in clause (a) may be issued.

Same

(2) A directive may be general or particular in its application, and may provide for different classes or categories.

Public availability

(3) Every directive,

(a) shall be made available to the public on request; and

(b) shall be publicly posted on at least one Government of Ontario website.

Status

(4) Part III (Regulations) of the Legislation Act, 2006 does not apply with respect to directives.

Term of agreement

(5) It shall be deemed to be a term and condition of every agreement to operate a vehicle inspection centre that the operator shall comply with all applicable directives.

Admissibility of copies

(6) A copy of a directive or a portion of a directive that purports to be certified by the Director or by an inspector is admissible in evidence in any proceeding or prosecution as proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of the directive or any portion of it.

Regulations

100.8 (1) The Minister may make regulations,

(a) governing the payment of fees to the Ministry for anything done by or on behalf of the Minister or the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards or for any purpose under sections 100.2 to 100.5 and this section;

(b) establishing qualifications and requirements for vehicle inspection centres;

(c) establishing qualifications and requirements for vehicle inspection centre technicians;

(d) providing procedures by which the Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards may,

(i) refuse to accredit a person as a vehicle inspection centre, or

(ii) register a person as a vehicle inspection centre technician or refuse to renew or revoke the person’s registration;

(e) governing,

(i) the issuance of safety standards certificates, structural inspection certificates, annual inspection certificates and stickers and semi-annual inspection certificates and stickers and other types of proof of inspection,

(ii) inspection procedures, and

(iii) equipment and performance standards that must be met before a certificate, sticker or other proof of inspection mentioned in subclause (i) may be issued;

(f) defining any term used in sections 100.2 to 100.7.

 



__________________


BELLE RIVER, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 981
Date:
Permalink  
 

In order to properly read this and give it my utmost and undivided attention .....I need my friend Jack ...Jack Daniels  biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin ...about the only way to read this stuff .



__________________

 

I couldn’t repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.



ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
Date:
Permalink  
 

It is complicated, but it looks like they {the Liberal Government) want to take saftey inspection away from your local garage or mechanic and have only special accredited Saftey inspection staions..They need to give a bone to all the E-test stations for the investment in e-test equipment that will soon become obsolete ..I hope I am wrong as they will set some pretty stiff rules and regulations to get us off the road and do not take your eye off the prize here because that is the goal of this government ..It falls right into there green tunnel vision..they would like us gone one way or another...I beleive thaey are fully planing to set some pretty tight hoops for us..I hopw some other licensed techs in the trade on here can shed some thoughts or views..



__________________


NORTH BAY, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 3717
Date:
Permalink  
 

More BS along with the college of trades screwing!!

__________________


BELLEVILLE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 959
Date:
Permalink  
 

Thanks for the heads up Chuk. Unfortunately it's written in government speak and I can't decipher it completely.
I have heard about new regulations regarding safety inspections but have failed to see any offical notices form the government about it.


__________________

Custom CNC plasma cutting. PM me for your custom parts.

www.lightspeedmetaldesign.com



BELLE RIVER, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 981
Date:
Permalink  
 

Translation ...MORE money out of our pockets ......!

__________________

 

I couldn’t repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.



HOOTERVILLE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date:
Permalink  
 

Sounds like they are proposing ALL passenger vehicles will require an annual inspection and proof / sticker just like commercial vehicles. Its like, if you want the drive clean program scraped, then we will screw you more with new vehicle requirements that will cost you more. Either way your going to PAY.crynonono



__________________

Proud member of the Brantford Piston Pushers. (Second Generation) & Disciple of Speed of the E.L.T.A. 

Braeside Farms (since 1803)

"Makes sense if you don't think about it."



BADEN, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1670
Date:
Permalink  
 

Kinda need sections 88 to 100, to try and somehow make better sense of this.
100.1 (2) -The returning of the forms/documents etc...looks to be related to "malpractice" (can I say that?).

100.2 (5) - Certified Safety inspections > Not a Crown Agent.

100.3 - It looks to me like they are just trying to cover there A$$, in case of liabilities.

100.4 - States that only licensed technicians can issue stickers/certificates.

I really don't see anything new there Chuk, aside from a few sub-clauses.
Inspections stations are already being "Checked", all they're saying is they can come to your place, without notice, for an inspection, and you can't refuse it. Just like the ministry of labor.

What section do you have any concerns about? With the Rat Rods and...
I'm not reading what you are out of it.



-- Edited by Gazoo on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 08:32:13 PM

__________________

Some people just simply don't get it!



TORONTO, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 196
Date:
Permalink  
 

A few items I picked out of this possible Government scam are as follows;

1/ It doesn't state that technicians doing the inspections have to be licensed mechanics, it says they have to be "registered technicians" and the Minister has the authority to register any person he/she feels like registering. That leaves the door open for the Minister to hire anyone off the street to perform inspections.

2/ It appears that they are trying to introduce annual or semi-annual inspections of some vehicles which would possibly be imposed on any vehicle the Minister feels is justified. I suppose if the Minister doesn't like a certain type of car, he/she can legislate that that vehicle must be inspected twice a year.

3/ It seems to me that the Minister will be given too much authority and could make changes to the inspection procedure based on a whim. I'm not so sure an elected official would have the necessary knowledge or qualifications to oversee any type of vehicle inspection program.

4/ The current motor vehicle inspection program has been in operation since the 1960's and outside of a few tweeks here and there, it should be left alone. We really don't need to have more Government interference with our lives and we certainly don't need any future cash grabs by the Government.

__________________

What's the point of writing a response if its only going to get deleted.



COBOURG, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2145
Date:
Permalink  
 

given the amount of cars on the road I find it hard to believe they would implement an inspection system, it would clog the garages solid.  although it may be a ploy to further attack older vehicles and hot rods as there are fewer of them on the road then newer stuff.  this could also be trial balloon stuff the gov ment always dreams up to test the waters.  seems they endlessly come up with ways to pound on the public.  or its yet another ploy to generate more new car sales, the auto makers must be whining again



__________________


BROCKVILLE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 655
Date:
Permalink  
 

Sent an email to our local MP asking for clarification of Bill 173, in particular section 100.1-100.8. Will post what I find out.



-- Edited by oldkoot on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 11:59:55 AM

__________________
77


BARRIE, ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 1395
Date:
Permalink  
 

Fat C , I,ll keep an eye on incoming mail at the shop an see if we get any notifications . the shop I work at does emmissions , used car sales leasing an appraisals so we get lotsa junk mail from federales . I,ll see if any thing interesting shows up ..77.

__________________

I,m as cool as Milner , but axeually a bit more like Beckwith



FINCH, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
Date:
Permalink  
 

Ontario will go liberal again no doubt. I have friends with old cars that only hear what there union says and the unions say liberal.


__________________

 ///// Join THE LOSERS c.c. of Ontario Ask me how/////

LOSERS CAR CLUB



St THOMAS, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 720
Date:
Permalink  
 

If they go with the annual inspections, it may be similar to what they had/have in the Lower Mainland, B.C.They made you go to a gov. building, where your front end, brakes, and general condition of body were checked. This was in early 70s, so pre - emissions, so don't know how it's operated now.



__________________

If brains were wire, some couldn't short circuit a firefly.



BRADFORD, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink  
 

Bill #173 covers many areas ... not just vehicle inspection ... but also Impaired Driving / Bicycling / Pedestrian Safety / Medical Reports / Vehicle Inspection / Miscellaneous ...

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&BillID=2956

The 'EXPLANATORY NOTE' at the bottom of the page sums up the Vehicle Inspection as below :-

Vehicle Inspection Centre System

Current sections 88 to 100 of the Act, which deal with motor vehicle inspection stations and related matters, are repealed.  They are replaced with sections 100.2 to 100.8, which create a new vehicle inspection centre system.  Section 100.1 allows the Minister of Transportation to make transition regulations to facilitate the implementation of the vehicle inspection centre system. 

Under new section 100.2, the Minister may establish a program for the inspection of vehicles and the issuance of certificates and stickers and other types of proof of inspection and may appoint a Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards to administer the program.  The Minister may enter into agreements with service providers to assist in operating the program.  The Minister may also enter into agreements to authorize persons to operate vehicle inspection centres and to authorize service providers to enter into such agreements.

The Director of Vehicle Inspection Standards is given broad authority to issue directives governing certificates, inspection procedures and requirements and equipment and performance standards under section 100.7.  It is a deemed term and condition of every agreement to operate a vehicle inspection centre to comply with all applicable directives.

Hopefully ... it is only to tighten up the regulations for people doing the inspections ... wink



__________________


DUNDAS, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1961
Date:
Permalink  
 

Just looked up 100. 1 on e laws and it looks very different to what is posted above as it stands 100.1 to 100.3 not sure if this is the most currant version 

Regulations, safety standards certificates, motor vehicle inspection stations, etc.

100.  (1)  The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations,

(a) prescribing the form and content of safety standards certificates;

(b) prescribing inspection procedures, inspection requirements and equipment and performance standards of those items to be inspected for a safety standards certificate, a structural inspection certificate or a vehicle inspection sticker;

(c) governing the safety, equipment, premises, maintenance and operation of motor vehicle inspection stations;

(d) prescribing forms for the purposes of sections 88 to 98 and this section and providing for their use;

(e) prescribing conditions that shall attach to motor vehicle inspection station licences or the registrations of motor vehicle inspection mechanics or any class of either of them;

(f) classifying vehicles, motor vehicle inspection stations and motor vehicle inspection mechanics for the purposes of sections 88 to 92;

(g) prescribing fees that shall be paid upon applications for motor vehicle inspection station licences and upon the issuance of the licences or renewals thereof and upon applications for and the registration of motor vehicle inspection mechanics;

(h) prescribing the amount that shall be paid to the Ministry for forms of safety standards certificates and vehicle inspection stickers;

(i) prescribing the books, records and accounts that shall be kept by licensees;

(j) governing the reports and returns that shall be made to the Director by licensees and registrants;

(k) prescribing the qualifications of motor vehicle inspection mechanics;

(l) prescribing other duties of inspectors;

(m) prescribing the form, size and content of signs that identify motor vehicle inspection stations and governing the use of such signs;

(n) requiring and governing the return to the Ministry of unused forms of safety standards certificates, vehicle inspection records and vehicle inspection stickers and providing for refunds of amounts paid for the forms of certificates and stickers;

(o) requiring and governing the return to the Ministry of signs provided by the Ministry to identify motor vehicle inspection stations. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 100 (1); 2000, c. 15, s. 1 (1).

Adoption by reference

(2)  Any regulation made under clause (1) (b) may adopt by reference any code, in whole or in part, with the changes that the Lieutenant Governor in Council considers necessary and may require compliance with any code that is adopted. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 100 (2).

Exemptions

(3)  A regulation made under clause (1) (b) may provide that a structural inspection certificate is not required for such classes of vehicles or in such circumstances as are described in the regulation. 2000, c. 15, s. 1 (2).



__________________
What a long strange trip its been


FOXBORO, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2234
Date:
Permalink  
 

we already have annual's for the bigger trucks and random inspection blitz's throughout the year. my f 350 dually has an annual do to it being registered in the company name. if it was in my personal name no inspection required. a lot of the read above is pertaining to the inspection persons or stations in itself as i see it. they have always had the power to pull you over at random to inspect or demand an inspect or even put you on a hook till done.
unless you are in the transportation, bigger trucks for hire or private carrier, most people don't realize the power they have at the side of the road or audit your files at place of business, no questions asked. i can see them making some demands on historical plated vehicles as they are losing a good chunk of change yearly on the license sticker and i have 3 of them for the last time.
you guys who do inspections might want to be thinking hard. in section 100.2 sub-section [3] they are already doing it pertaining to importing some vehicles and trailers. how much is canadian tire kicking them back to be the only one allowed to do it. i know there was hub-bub over appraisals when selling a collector car. they were trying to designate certain people or places that were allowed but the fee was not enough for the inspector. don't know where that ended up but it could happen for their chunk of the action. demand it done and tell you who can do it. 100.2-[3] for their chunk. a shop doesn't really make a lot of money on an e/test and now they are thinking a lower price, election promise sort of thing, but at the shops expense/loss. unless the cars are lined up at the door the same tech under a hood is generating a lot more money.

anyway thats my read.

__________________
if your not the lead dog-the view is all the same


ETOBICOKE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 882
Date:
Permalink  
 

Just hope it does not end up like the registration / certification rules they have in Nova Scotia.
Yearly certs needed, my understanding is you can't modify a vehicle to much without having a structual inspection. Apparently they have 2 inspectors for the province.

__________________

 



BRANTFORD, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2269
Date:
Permalink  
 

This is the only section that gives me concern......

100.8 (1)

(i) the issuance of safety standards certificates, structural inspection certificates, annual inspection certificates and stickers and semi-annual inspection certificates and stickers and other types of proof of inspection,

Who will be qualified to offer....STRUCTRAL INSPECTION CERTIFICATES....? and by what testing?

Not just for rat rods.....but all hotrods with either store bought or custom made or modified frames (backhalf, lengthened, shortened)?

And the catch all.....other types of proof of inspection?

__________________

"If you don't pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you"



DUNDAS, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1961
Date:
Permalink  
 

Another case of them nickel and diming everyone to death so they can piss it against the wall . Wonder how long the line would be if we stuck Wynne against the wall.



-- Edited by slim on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 09:01:10 AM

__________________
What a long strange trip its been


ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

slim wrote:

 Wonder how long the line would be if we stuck Wynne against the wall.



-- Edited by slim on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 09:01:10 AM


 Who cares, as long as I'm first !!furiousfuriousfurious



__________________


MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1040
Date:
Permalink  
 

Sounds to me that if I owned a rat rod

Or fibreglass car without proper firewall

tags and matching ownership I would be 

starting to worry.I have been saying for a few

years now that the mto would start cracking 

down on fibreglass cars as they are out and out

fraudulent, and that if I owned a glass car I

Would be moving it along as fast as I could

but that is just my opinion, but I sure am glad

that all my cars have original frames and matching

firewall tags and ownerships .



__________________

 If you cant move it with a hammer

It must be an electrical problem

 



ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
Date:
Permalink  
 

I am still trying to understand the mumbo-jumbo speak..they make it so damn confusing when they do this ..One coma, one sentence, one word can make it completely different or the interpretation is so confusing you have to be a lawyer to understand whet it's saying..but if the police have input or worse some idiot in the police civilian office decides something and they great lets change that word or sentence and we get more cars off the road , or now we look deeper into those awful noisy hot rodders and all those hot rods with tractor grills and implement seats..they are trying to make the law so that it is at the discrection of the officer.. .I don't quite understand if these cnages mean anything or not but they concern me..With any luck they will call an election and this bill 173 will die on the floor before it gets any further reading in the house..I don't see any good in here for us..except more expense and tax to pay for government jobs which we pay for ....anyway I thought it was worth puttingit up for others to see if I was overreacting or maybe I am a bit paranoid about government interference in our life and hobbys....cry 



__________________


NORTH BAY, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 3717
Date:
Permalink  
 

Chuck always be paranoid of everything the government does, with their record of F*ckups, who wouldn't be?

__________________


FINCH, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
Date:
Permalink  
 

I sold all my frame and motor modified projects last year. MY cars now are stock frame and motor. Lowered suspension by blocks and cut coils. All modifications can be returned to stock within a days work. I dont care enough about this government or any government to lose money because of there bull ****. My car will be customized by paint only along the lines of Larry Watson www.google.ca/search

__________________

 ///// Join THE LOSERS c.c. of Ontario Ask me how/////

LOSERS CAR CLUB



MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1040
Date:
Permalink  
 

I believe your onto something there workin class!!!



__________________

 If you cant move it with a hammer

It must be an electrical problem

 



FINCH, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
Date:
Permalink  
 

It sucks but Im not rich enough to gamble on this screwed up corrupt power hungry provincial government.


__________________

 ///// Join THE LOSERS c.c. of Ontario Ask me how/////

LOSERS CAR CLUB



ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

workin class wrote:

It sucks but Im not rich enough to gamble on this screwed up corrupt power hungry provincial government.


 I guess they win then !!nono



__________________


MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1040
Date:
Permalink  
 

Why not

It's like everything else the government choses to do

Canadians roll over and take it.



__________________

 If you cant move it with a hammer

It must be an electrical problem

 



ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

I don't know why everyone is getting so paranoid about a proposed bill that we don't even know what it's about ???
Even if these Crooks make us get an annual safety, it's not the end of the world. Lots of States and some provinces have had this for years, and they still have cars running around with modified frames. I don't want to see it happen either, but if we have to jump through a few more hoops, then so be it.All our cars should be safe anyway!! If they make us scrap any vehicle with structural modifications, then that's another issue we'll have to deal with later on. Even with the strict laws certain States have like California, they still have custom cars. We all got into this paranoia a couple years ago over emission controls, and not one person has been busted unless they were guilty, and this was on emission controlled vehicles, not the old crap we're into. Relax, crack a cold one because the weather will be warming up soon!!

__________________


FINCH, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
Date:
Permalink  
 

Im paranoid I hate people whom I dont know with power making laws that might cost me big bucks. I had a chance to pick up a vary good California car at a good price so I decided to cut any chance of loss and changed build strategies. My 19 year old son is building a western 1965 Ford the same way good solid body stock motor mild custom. Are cars will still be low budget both built for less than $2500.00 each.

__________________

 ///// Join THE LOSERS c.c. of Ontario Ask me how/////

LOSERS CAR CLUB



ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

workin class wrote:

Im paranoid I hate people whom I dont know with power making laws that might cost me big bucks. I had a chance to pick up a vary good California car at a good price so I decided to cut any chance of loss and changed build strategies. My 19 year old son is building a western 1965 Ford the same way good solid body stock motor mild custom. Are cars will still be low budget both built for less than $2500.00 each.


 I hear what you're saying, but we're surrounded by people in power that dictate how we lead our lives, and we can't bury our heads in the sand because of it. I hate the way things are going as much as anyone else, but things here aren't bad enough (yet) for us to do anything drastic to change it. One day soon, we're going to have so much civil unrest here in North America that we will be just like the rest of the f-up world. Things can only decline so far before the masses give our Governments back what they deserve. With more guns in the US in private hands than there are people, it should make for an interesting fight. Until then, I'll enjoy my car because there are much bigger things we should be worried about. 



__________________


St THOMAS, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 720
Date:
Permalink  
 

hemi43 wrote:


 I hate the way things are going as much as anyone else, but things here aren't bad enough (yet) for us to do anything drastic to change it. One day soon, we're going to have so much civil unrest here in North America that we will be just like the rest of the f-up world. Things can only decline so far before the masses give our Governments back what they deserve. With more guns in the US in private hands than there are people, it should make for an interesting fight. Until then, I'll enjoy my car because there are much bigger things we should be worried about. 

 Hate to disagree with you, but don't think that Canadians will ever get pi$$ed off enough to change things. In general, Canadians are just a bunch of passive limp dicks. If stuff that goes on here, were to happen in the USA, they would be strung up by the short & curlies.



__________________

If brains were wire, some couldn't short circuit a firefly.



FONTHILL, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink  
 

It sounds similar to how they did it where I used to live in the states. Yearly inspections and NO emmissions testing. Started off being state run inspection stations, but then with budget constraints on the shops and manpower, they eventually switched it back to the "garage" style of inspection stations.

It was the only thing that I was used to when I lived there, so it wasn't really anything out of the norm for me. Now with living here, I'm not sure how I will feel if they do go this direction....it wasn't too much of a bother then, but only time will tell.



__________________


OSHAWA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 243
Date:
Permalink  
 

34guy wrote:

Sounds to me that if I owned a rat rod

Or fibreglass car without proper firewall

tags and matching ownership I would be 

starting to worry.I have been saying for a few

years now that the mto would start cracking 

down on fibreglass cars as they are out and out

fraudulent, and that if I owned a glass car I

Would be moving it along as fast as I could

but that is just my opinion, but I sure am glad

that all my cars have original frames and matching

firewall tags and ownerships .


 

I am baffled by your logic. 

It is only fraud if you misrepresent what you have. 

If you go through the process PROPERLY and not through fraud using "Historical Documents" you are fine.

Just because some folks abuse the system, does not mean all of us are screwed.



__________________

Tbucket build pics: Build
Tbucket build pics continued: Build
And even more: Build



FOXBORO, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2234
Date:
Permalink  
 

Keeper wrote:
34guy wrote:

Sounds to me that if I owned a rat rod

Or fibreglass car without proper firewall

tags and matching ownership I would be 

starting to worry.I have been saying for a few

years now that the mto would start cracking 

down on fibreglass cars as they are out and out

fraudulent, and that if I owned a glass car I

Would be moving it along as fast as I could

but that is just my opinion, but I sure am glad

that all my cars have original frames and matching

firewall tags and ownerships .


 

I am baffled by your logic. 

It is only fraud if you misrepresent what you have. 

If you go through the process PROPERLY and not through fraud using "Historical Documents" you are fine.

Just because some folks abuse the system, does not mean all of us are screwed.


 34 you are on to something there. coddington and james both got fined big time for passing kits off, as original. yea it was a 34 but a kit that makes it a new car. being a new car it has to be todays standards. coddington got hit large with using old original registrations on new kits he got from some guy in the carolinas. as for rats, i don't know but i could see it being a new car and needing todays specs. hope not but maybe.



__________________
if your not the lead dog-the view is all the same


ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

Fiberglass bodied cars with a custom chassis must be registered as a "kit car". If it's not, then it was registered fraudulently.

__________________


CLINTON, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 3909
Date:
Permalink  
 

We might have to sneak around and act like real Hot Rodders      screw them    steal a sticker from a parking lot      the fines for getting caught are cheaper than conformity



__________________

 

 



MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 1040
Date:
Permalink  
 

So if you go to the ministry and tell them you are registering a 32 ford

But it has a fibreglass body and no vin,  A reproduction frame and no vin and

a 1932 ownership that does not belong to that frame or body, you will walk out with 

an ownership ,Not likely,

but by not telling them it is a glass body ,an ownership from a different car

And a reproduction frame, and leaving with a 1932 ownership That my friend is committing fraud!!! 

 

 

 



__________________

 If you cant move it with a hammer

It must be an electrical problem

 



PORT HOPE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2388
Date:
Permalink  
 

I think Carl is on to something .Truely back to the 50s. I have always said that the government makes us all criminals at some time. Ed

__________________

Any day with friends doin car stuff is a good day



OSHAWA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 243
Date:
Permalink  
 

34guy wrote:

So if you go to the ministry and tell them you are registering a 32 ford

But it has a fibreglass body and no vin,  A reproduction frame and no vin and

a 1932 ownership that does not belong to that frame or body, you will walk out with 

an ownership ,Not likely,

but by not telling them it is a glass body ,an ownership from a different car

And a reproduction frame, and leaving with a 1932 ownership That my friend is committing fraud!!! 

 


 No- You go into the MTO telling them what you are building, you leave with a list of docs you need.

- Repeat 5 more times until you have all the required pictures, paperwork, receipts, letter from the manufacturer stating what they body resembles, the appraisal stating the make/model of the car you are building marked as a KIT if it is so.

 - They issue you a VIN, they issue you an Unfit title for your vehicle, you pay taxes on the CURRENT value of the car (as per the appraisal)

 - Once the build is complete, you get a safety done, not a "safety" a real one that actually checks what is there and ensures that it works.

 - You go back with your insurance, and get your plates.

You do all that you are fine.  Sure its a PITA, but its legal and they cannot ding you for that.  If they ****ed up at the counter, its not your fault, you did your duty and followed the rules.

Now if you do as you stated, sure you may be screwed.

 

As for the topic and the (possibly) proposed yearly/bi-yearly inspections.  I am on both sides of the fence, I had to deal with yearly inspections when I lived in North Carolina, cost $9.99 when you wanted to renew the sticker.  It was strictly as safety, lights, tires, wipers, horn, made sure the emissions was present, no rust through holes..etc.  While I would love for something like that to happen up here to stop almost rear-ending folks in Oshawa/Whitby because they are to ****ing cheap to fix their brake lights.  I would much rather the cops actually issue "fix-it" tickets instead, but no one up here seems to have heard of them, pretty popular in the US.

But nothing like that will happen, it will end up being some over blown screwed up program as the emissions has now.

 

 

 

 

 

 



__________________

Tbucket build pics: Build
Tbucket build pics continued: Build
And even more: Build



PORT HOPE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2388
Date:
Permalink  
 

We used to have fix it tickets issued here as well back in the 80s.You got a ticket and had to show the cop within so many day that either you had it fixed or that you fixed it yourself and whatever the problem was it is working now. Ed























__________________

Any day with friends doin car stuff is a good day



S/W ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 636
Date:
Permalink  
 

Forgive me if someone has already brought this up as I'm bad for not reading everything above!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 1995 I bought a '40 ford with no ownership. I went to a lawyer,got a affidavit that told the story of where it came from and who I bought it from and how much I paid. I gave the ministry the number that was stamped on the frame rail by the steering box. There was no plate on the firewall.
I got a ownership totally legal with no problems. I know it has changed since then.
My point is I have a '40 totally legal with no firewall I.D. plate.
A buddy of mine a few years before that did the same thing for a Model A. He didn't have a vin number or a frame. The ministry told him he had to make up a vin number with "X" number digits. He did this and got a ownership.
There is two examples of no firewall I.D. and one with a serial number that was pulled out of the sky and everything is legal.
TMJ



__________________

"Good cowgirls keep their calves together"



DORCHESTER, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2131
Date:
Permalink  
 

I was pulled over 30 years ago because my car had 5 different colours- cop thought it was a steaming POS. The car was very close to being ready for paint and after walking around it, he agreed that the body was sound. We had a short argument about the turn downs, he rightfully thought it had to have tail pipes. He sent me to the MTO office at Exeter Road and they did a fairly basic check: body, brakes, E-brakes, driver window function, wiper and washer function, lights, signals, tires, and yes, exhaust. They explained that it would have to be routed to within 6" of the body perimeter, either to the sides or to the rear. Everything else checked out OK, so I got a pair of tail pipes bent up and a quick recheck.

If the cop had have been more sure of himself, I'm sure I would have gotten a ticket. I didn't mind having to put the tail pipes on it though, because it sounded soooo much better - it took away all the obnoxious! I guess the fine may have been less than the cost of the pipes, but it wasn't an issue after they were on there - could have been pulled over weekly otherwise.

I am in favor of police being observant and sending a car for inspection that is obviously full of holes, held together with duct tape or bailing wire - what I'm NOT in favor of, is harassment of anyone, especially those with an agenda against hot rodders and classics!

__________________

"If I could get back all the money I've ever spent on cars...I'd spend it ALL on cars !!!

GO HERE!    http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/roaddawg



COBOURG, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 2145
Date:
Permalink  
 

be thankful we dont live in japan, cars must be spotless, no rust or any body damage, ultra strict emmision standards and a limit of 50000 kms, if you want to drive your car beyond 50000 it is even more costly.  as well you dont just go out and buy a car, you have to apply as you have to prove you have a parking spot for it



__________________


ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

toomuchjunk wrote:

Forgive me if someone has already brought this up as I'm bad for not reading everything above!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 1995 I bought a '40 ford with no ownership. I went to a lawyer,got a affidavit that told the story of where it came from and who I bought it from and how much I paid. I gave the ministry the number that was stamped on the frame rail by the steering box. There was no plate on the firewall.
I got a ownership totally legal with no problems. I know it has changed since then.
My point is I have a '40 totally legal with no firewall I.D. plate.
A buddy of mine a few years before that did the same thing for a Model A. He didn't have a vin number or a frame. The ministry told him he had to make up a vin number with "X" number digits. He did this and got a ownership.
There is two examples of no firewall I.D. and one with a serial number that was pulled out of the sky and everything is legal.
TMJ


 Both examples are legal, but yours is the better way to go because it is registered as a 1940 Ford. Your Buddy with the model A now has an ownership that has a 15 digit VIN, and that may cause problems for him if it's modified because the car might have to meet certain safety or emission criteria. I think his car is now registered as a homebuilt. This is another grey area in the system. My car is registered the same as yours, because the serial number is located on my frame even though my "dash" plaque was lost long ago.



__________________


ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 4606
Date:
Permalink  
 

fatstax wrote:

be thankful we dont live in japan, cars must be spotless, no rust or any body damage, ultra strict emmision standards and a limit of 50000 kms, if you want to drive your car beyond 50000 it is even more costly.  as well you dont just go out and buy a car, you have to apply as you have to prove you have a parking spot for it


 If I lived in Japan, I would starve !!hmmhmm



__________________


MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 83
Date:
Permalink  
 

A little insight regarding all the laws imposed on us and the legalities. New York state has annuals and emissions and they seem to tolerate both...Problem with made up ownerships or titles would be in selling the vehicle to some American states as VIN checks are necessary and any other transaction where the person buying wants to check the VIN # for liens & previous history. (I know I would require to see a legal matching VIN before paying for a street rod or muscle car.) Also what about stolen vehicle reports? Too many grey areas to skirt around but by using common sense and YES, assigned VIN's, we can cruise around and protect ourselves from the MAN. Hot rodders have been skirting the law since the 1920's and we are still here. Boards like this give keyboard bullies a voice but they are not really true hot rodders in the real sense. I build my own cars and legally drive them all year everywhere and try to comply to the laws imposed on us. Let's enjoy the coming season and support all the local swap meets or they will also come to pass. Personal thanks to ALEX in London for putting on one of the best outdoor swap meets, (Rain, Sleet or Snow), and I am sad to see it go. 34guy , F**K Em, and stay true to form....Dave

__________________

I had one of those!!!!



ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
Date:
Permalink  
 

I think if this bill gets passed..scrap that..When this gets passed there will be a sorry bunch of people who did not pay attention and did not act soon enough and get on their MPP to get this beaten down..but you can't say you haven't been warned...Me I only got a few years left so I will not be impacted but most of you will....I can see it now you will all be driving fart-can Mazda's..biggrin biggrin I will be running on the other side of the county roads..

 

 

What the hell is with all these "A" things showing up in so many posts..



-- Edited by fatchuk on Sunday 6th of April 2014 05:58:31 PM

__________________


BROCKVILLE, ONT

Status: Offline
Posts: 655
Date:
Permalink  
 

You're right Chuck, very few people seem to give a rats arse about this but will be the first to whine and carry on when it goes into effect.

__________________
1 2  >  Last»  | Page of 2  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard