Drive Shaft shortening

captainq · ST GEORGE, ONT

Drive Shaft shortening

Shop_Rat · ONTARIO

try Delta Spring in Breslau

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

Just make sure that Delta Spring doesn't offer this as a "service" where they actually use someone else to perform the operation. They just might be sending it back to the same shop you used.

It's funny, I've had better luck shortening my own driveshaft and not balancing it than I did when I had a brand new one made. How is that even possible?

Best of luck. Just because they work on driveshafts and have the large lathe and balancing equipment doesn't mean you'll be getting a good product. Unfortunately I am speaking from experience

-- Edited by DB Cooper on Wednesday 7th of May 2014 09:22:48 PM

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

How much shorter is the driveshaft? It could be you need to reset the pinion angle on the rear axle.

I'd take the driveshaft to Harman's ,www.harmanhvs.com/.

-- Edited by Gazoo on Wednesday 7th of May 2014 10:15:39 PM

captainq · ST GEORGE, ONT

it was shortened about 2 inches, tranni is sitting at three degrees I could adjust it to zero degrees if it would help

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

I don't think 2" would drastically affect the angle, but just do a "quick" check, if you have a protractor/angle finder.
Here's a couple links, how-to's...www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/, or www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/drive_shaft_harmonics.php.

Keeping in mind the "how-to" links, are using angular specs for the suspension geometry they are using.
If you can find somewhere the factory specs on your stock pinion angle, and then apply these calculations/theories.

Another question I have, how much travel do you have on the slip yoke? Is it bottoming out?

Which ever way will create less work to find your vibration issue.

-- Edited by Gazoo on Wednesday 7th of May 2014 10:56:04 PM

jarvis1 · COBBLE HILL, BC

Are the U joints in phase?
Facing the same way they were before the cut was made.

http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html

Go down to the drawings of the driveshafts.

-- Edited by jarvis1 on Wednesday 7th of May 2014 11:30:10 PM

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Down around page 15 -17 it gives you operating angles for a two piece drive with a hanger bearing

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.dana.com%2Fpdf%2FJ3311-1-DSSP.pdf&ei=xRJrU9_dFMyGyAS3noKIDA&usg=AFQjCNEicONmP4XAFJc2TEbwUsDIoWofZw&bvm=bv.66330100,d.aWw

captainq · ST GEORGE, ONT

U joints were in phase but not sure what the shop did,looks like I should do some angle measuring, thanks for the help

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

Slim, thanks for the link. Much better details in those PDF files. And the break down of sectional drive shafts, etc...

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

why not take it back to the shop and let them figure it out??

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Post up some shaft lengths I have a two piece drive shaft here out of a 57 3100 that got tossed into the truck with a load of stuff I bought off a guy . if its any use to you , you can have it. the shaft in mine is 1 piece so it will eventually just get scraped.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

captainq wrote:
it was shortened about 2 inches, tranni is sitting at three degrees I could adjust it to zero degrees if it would help

No, it wouldn't help !! 3 degrees is just right.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

34guy wrote:
why not take it back to the shop and let them figure it out??

Few winters back had the hanger bearing go in the ranger didn't feel like changing it so I brought it in to get done. from what i can figure the bonehead never marked the two shafts and the ends when they took them out . after 4 trips back it was slightly better and I figured i'd snap and end up in jail if I had to listen to the bull one more time . so in the end i pulled it back out. took a couple tries To get it right and it was good as new. Funny that indexing a bent drive shaft cured the problem. Everyone makes mistakes , the problem is most don't care that the made a mistake anymore and compound it by thinking you just fell of the back of the turnip truck.

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Sorry not old enough to know what a turnip truck is, Please explain LOL

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
captainq wrote:
it was shortened about 2 inches, tranni is sitting at three degrees I could adjust it to zero degrees if it would help

No, it wouldn't help !! 3 degrees is just right.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

34guy wrote:
Sorry not old enough to know what a turnip truck is, Please explain LOL

Meaning the I Q of a turnip. What else would roll of the back of a turnip truck. maybe dirt but dogs would be involved in that saying.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

slim wrote:
hemi43 wrote:
captainq wrote:
it was shortened about 2 inches, tranni is sitting at three degrees I could adjust it to zero degrees if it would help

No, it wouldn't help !! 3 degrees is just right.

Why do you keep referring to a two piece drive-shaft?? There's no mention from the OP that he has this setup!! Drive-shaft angles should never be 0 degrees. The OP stated that his transmission is at 3 degrees which is fine. Re-engineering the wheel again, Slim??

Another simple "Tech" post gone way out on a tangent.

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

Maybe out on a tangent, with the pinion angle...

After I found out the shaft was only shortened 2", I figure, How far out of balance can it be? You'd have to weld the yoke way off center.

Then again, the shaft would have to be really short to begin with, to loose 2-3 degrees over 2".

Agreed, there's a lot of technical data there, that is a bit extreme. But it's nice to know, you're in the ball park.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
slim wrote:
hemi43 wrote:
captainq wrote:
it was shortened about 2 inches, tranni is sitting at three degrees I could adjust it to zero degrees if it would help

No, it wouldn't help !! 3 degrees is just right.

Why do you keep referring to a two piece drive-shaft?? There's no mention from the OP that he has this setup!! Drive-shaft angles should never be 0 degrees. The OP stated that his transmission is at 3 degrees which is fine. Re-engineering the wheel again, Slim??
Another simple "Tech" post gone way out on a tangent.

The one sitting on his garage floor was two piece. previous post when he was going to shorten it and thought it was two long referred to hanger bearing and gap on the input...... a camino is to low to use a one piece.

if the transmission is pointed down 3 degrees and the dif is pointed up 3 then your fine .... if only the dif is at 3 deg its not.

I don't make this crap up ( most day's) its from Spicer (Dana) specs.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Sorry rereading my first reply is kind of generic. its not simply that a camino is to low . But the drop or the height difference from the transmission and the dif is minimal also there is not a lot of space and a tunnel in the box would look out of place. angling both 3 and 3 is probably far too much for the shaft operating angle.and I would guess that the factory setup was O and 0 to give the shaft the required slope.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I was always under the impression that a driveshaft always had to have a bit of angle in it, even if it's only .5 degrees. Running a driveshaft with zero degrees would cause problems either with noise or vibration.

captainq · ST GEORGE, ONT

Update, yes it is a two piece shaft with hanger bearing. I thought I was running 3 degree drop from the rear of the tranni, I used a digital level today and it was closer to 6 degree drop. I shimmed the tranni up just now to about a 1 degree drop and it is improving. I haven't checked the angle on the rear yet, I will tomorrow. And slim I will measure the shaft and if you have one the right length I will take you up on the offer, Thanks for the help, Steve

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

If the engine and diff are flat or 0 but the dif is 3 inches lower, the joints are at an angle. if they are in a straight line from one another at the same height thats the problem . The running or working angles of the shaft should be as close as possible at each end. In theory if the transmission and the dif are pointing at each other the transmission at 0 or pointing down 2 degrees and the dif at 0 or pointing up 2 degrees the working angle at both joints will be the same. Pictures help understand it a lot easier .

hemi43 · ONTARIO

slim wrote:
If the engine and diff are flat or 0 but the dif is 3 inches lower, the joints are at an angle. if they are in a straight line from one another at the same height thats the problem . The running or working angles of the shaft should be as close as possible at each end. In theory if the transmission and the dif are pointing at each other the transmission at 0 or pointing down 2 degrees and the dif at 0 or pointing up 2 degrees the working angle at both joints will be the same. Pictures help understand it a lot easier .

The way you said it makes sense.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

is this thread still going? saw the sucker off and goober it together and hope for the best. sounds like those euro fags who lower their Porsche 12 mm and think they've done something radical

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
I was always under the impression that a driveshaft always had to have a bit of angle in it, even if it's only .5 degrees. Running a driveshaft with zero degrees would cause problems either with noise or vibration.

From what I remember the diff pinion should be down from the trans about 1 to 3 degrees. This helps with the diff "rolling up" slightly when accelerating.

The driveshaft shouldn't be straight to the trans, not for vibration but lubrication. It keeps the needle bearings moving around a little bit.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

For lubrication?? Ahhh.. That makes sense. Never would have thought of that. Thanks

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

fatstax wrote:
. sounds like those euro fags who lower their Porsche 12 mm and think they've done something radical

friends of your's I take it. Id bet they can't contain themselves when you show them your rat.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

better my rat then my hog

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

This is again from Spicer on angles for set up . This will all change slightly as the suspension cycles and the motor mounts load .

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

thank god you gave the lesson, I thought I was going to have to. I did tons of axle setups years ago for my rock crawling buddies. they know how to spit out universals! I have this really handy degree wheel thingy that's magnetic, really makes life easy

Don · PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY

It's funny, I've had better luck shortening my own driveshaft and not balancing it than I did when I had a brand new one made

I whole heartedly concur with that statement. An old school pro welder who builds a lot of driveshafts told me if the tubing is square and you fit everything perfectly there is no reason it should be out of balance. He builds lot of them and doesn't have a balancer. Since then I have never had one balanced but will spend quite a bit of time with a carpenters square and a file. Also I scribe the tube lengthwise to make sure the ends are in phase. Last one I did is for a 41 hemi powered Willys for a friend. I cut it made sure it was absolutely square, tacked the end in place and let him finish welding it being sure he didn't weld more then an inch at a time and alternating from side to side. Have been in the car at over 100MPH. Smooth, no vibes. The old guy who gave me the heads up said "they are not out of balance, they are, in fact actually crooked. " I doubted it at the time but so far after several I have had to swallow my opinion and realize that in most cases he was in fact correct.
don

captainq · ST GEORGE, ONT

Update, played around with angles and had everything working good, No vibration when cruising, slight vibration at one speed but minor. Put a few miles on it, Went out to pass on the highway and when i kicked it into passing gear, bang, one cup from the front ujoint was missing, The shop that shortened the shaft installed it, Not sure if the clip wasn't seated properly but back on the road. Havent had much tome to test drive it againbut hopefully it was just a bad installation of the u joint.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

I would think they did not install the clip right , cup is normally still there after all the needles fall out. Hope you checked the rest. Thanks for the update.