Indicator/Brake Wiring Issue/bad switch??

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Indicator/Brake Wiring Issue/bad switch??

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

I checked the light first. I did find a problem with it actually. The plastic plate with a spring behind it. The plate was catching on some burrs in the metal housing that holds the bulb, so cleaned that up. But this light is garbage, the sping is not very strong to keep a good connection. I have two different brands of light, the other better. I had arranged ahead of time with Fender skirt king - Reg Perron to save me a pair of right side taillights for me to pickup at Barrie but he forgot so didn't have much left when I got there. If the dust cover on the back comes off a bit then its enough weight to make for a shaky connection with the bulb.

BUT I checked the voltage at the connector before the taillight and it's showing 2v before it gets to the light.

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

If the left side front indicator and the left side rear indicator & brake light are working properly, but the right front indicator and right rear indicator & brake light are not working properly, chances are it is the signal switch. I have to assume that it is the clamp-on aftermarket type switch. Can't tell you how many of these I have seen that don't work, right out of the box! If you can isolate the wires going to the front right and right rear, at the column, hook them up one at a time to a 12 volt source and see what you get at the bulb, that way you will know that the wiring, bulbs and sockets are ok.

If it is a modern style column, use the same technique to check the wiring, bulbs, and sockets.

-- Edited by Model A Guy on Saturday 5th of July 2014 04:44:36 PM

jarvis1 · COBBLE HILL, BC

I don't understand the 2V. Is that supposed to be 12V?
You didn't put LED bulbs in, did you?
LED's will not work with some flashers because of their low draw.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

No it's not a clamp on switch, it's a gm g-body steering column with column shift and tilt. I'm guessing a lot of the donor parts are 79 cutlass (assuming that's the motor that came with the front end) And yes what you said made me think it's the switch as well, however I really don't know much about electrical at all so didn't wanna assume too much.

When I apply the brake the brake wire on the right shows '2V'.

The front headlights that were on the truck have LED indicators. I hate LEDS. taillights I bought are not LED. The headlight indicators were wired into the rear indicator lights when I got the truck, everytime I hit the brakes both front indicators came on, that was switched to the front wires recently.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

I was told a bad ground or a short somewhere could cause all kinds of strange problems. When I first hooked the rear lights up, one of the license plate lights was bad out of the package, it cause all kinds of problems everywhere until I replaced it.

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Nickeleye wrote:
No it's not a clamp on switch, it's a gm g-body steering column with column shift and tilt. I'm guessing a lot of the donor parts are 79 cutlass (assuming that's the motor that came with the front end) And yes what you said made me think it's the switch as well, however I really don't know much about electrical at all so didn't wanna assume too much.

When I apply the brake the brake wire on the right shows '2V'.

The front headlights that were on the truck have LED indicators. I hate LEDS. taillights I bought are not LED. The headlight indicators were wired into the rear indicator lights when I got the truck, everytime I hit the brakes both front indicators came on, that was switched to the front wires recently.

Ok, now it is a whole different ball game! I would hate to make another guess without seeing the truck. If you were closer, or you felt like going for a drive, I would gladly try to help you out.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

lol is there any splices? I have a crazy mutlicoloured bird's nest under the dash, splices and connectors, twist and tape connections. It scares me to look at it, quite intimidating.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Model A Guy - Stroud's not too far away - I have a customer in Innisfil I should pay a visit too sometime soon anyways. If I'm still struggling I might take you up on that offer. Pretty sure you're not gonna like what you see under the dash though. lol

54vicky · OAKVILLE, ONT

the plug on the column that Fatchuk is talking about is about midway down the column the narrow black part of the plug is from the switch the white part is what goes out to the lights and horn.the colour you want to check is the dark green as that is the right signal wire it will be next to the white then yellow{right turn}it can be a beach to unplug there is a clip that is part of the smaller plug.I think you may find it easier to power that wire once you unplug it.usually the light socket will supply the ground once you power it then check voltage at light it should have 12 volts or whatever voltage you supply through plug.but as Fatchuk and Model A guy said a bad ground will cause a world of problems.make sure you use the dark green the light green is the horn.this will help to decide if it is the switch.if you do not have 12 volts at light with a good ground then you will have to start tracing that wire back to plug it will be a pain to trace back if whoever wired it taped the loom if you dont get 12 volts do not just give the loom a quick look I would untape the whole way from front to back.if at anytime someone probed the wire it will probably have green death.if it were me I would replace that wire from front to back as I have seen the wire hang on by one strand and looking perfect hard to spot.this is not to say switch is not bad.the right front will be the light or dark blue both are front signal been a long while so I dont remember you will know once you power them.having described that you may be able to spray the switch with WD40 pretty hard to do with steering wheel on.if you do spray it try to spray where the stalk goes into switch keep working switch as you spray.this will help remove any oxidation that may have built up on the contacts.messy but wipes up easy if you dont plan on painting {fisheye} from WD.try spray first easiest to do.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

ok thanks for the tips everyone. I know it's not a straight forward answer to my problem.

I forgot to mention- When I turn on the right signal, The right arrow light on the dash is dim and solid. When I put the hazard (4way) on the flasher works and the arrows on the dash light up and flash properly but the front and rear indicators don't turn on. I'm not sure if that dim solid arrow when I put the switch to the right is a helpful clue but thought I'd put it out there.

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Saturday 5th of July 2014 07:29:14 PM

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Saturday 5th of July 2014 07:29:34 PM

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Nickeleye wrote:
ok thanks for the tips everyone. I know it's not a straight forward answer to my problem.
I forgot to mention- When I turn on the right signal, The right arrow light on the dash is dim and solid. When I put the hazard (4way) on the flasher works and the arrows on the dash light up and flash properly but the front and rear indicators don't turn on. I'm not sure if that dim solid arrow when I put the switch to the right is a helpful clue but thought I'd put it out there.

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Saturday 5th of July 2014 07:29:14 PM

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Saturday 5th of July 2014 07:29:34 PM

When you put the 4 ways on, do you mean that none of the indicators turn on, or just the right side doesn't come on? If the dash indicators work properly when the 4 ways are on, then I would say that the switch is ok. I think the problem is in the fact that previously someone had wired the front indicators and rear indicators together, then someone else tried to somehow correct the problem. I believe that the right front and right rear are not connected to the switch, I can see one wire being corroded, but what are the chances of both right side signal wires being corroded. Better chance of bad connections when trying to rectify the original problem of the fronts being connected with the backs.

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

It might be a good idea to repair the twist and tape connections to eliminate that problem and a pretty good fire or short circuit hazard. Fires in " HOT" Rods is not a pretty sight. Saw one years ago in a 55 Chev and I almost cried.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

51 Styline wrote:
It might be a good idea to repair the twist and tape connections to eliminate that problem and a pretty good fire or short circuit hazard. Fires in " HOT" Rods is not a pretty sight. Saw one years ago in a 55 Chev and I almost cried.

That's something that's been in the back of my mind worrying me....

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Model A -
Sorry if my messages are getting confusing.

What happens at the actual lights is always consistant.
Left side front and rear work fine no matter what you activate.
Right side front indicator and rear indicator/brake do nothing no matter what. (taillight wire works)

What I was trying to add in the last message was that on the dash the arrows that light up work fine when you put the hazard on - They're bright and flash. But when you turn the indicator switch to the right - the right arrow on the dash is dim and doens't blink. I just thought that was odd.

54vicky · OAKVILLE, ONT

another thought are all the bulbs 1157 not the newer 2057 etc mixed.I know you said about your changing taillight.try a new 1157 bulb in front and rear as I have seen brand new bulbs that were no good now with offshore junk.I am still confused by the 2 volt reading.mind you when I have tested I only used test light if light was dim then I would check ground then wire.you are getting good help it will be dam I would never have thought when you solve it.

toomuchjunk · S/W ONTARIO

might want to put a battery disconnect on it if it is that bad!!!! or park it outside
TMJ

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

toomuchjunk wrote:
might want to put a battery disconnect on it if it is that bad!!!! or park it outside
TMJ

Good advice!

The arrows on the dash are connected to the front signals only. The right arrow is only coming on dim and not flashing probably because there is no connection from the column out to the front right bulb and the right rear bulb for brake and signals. The fact that the rear taillight works eliminates the poor ground problem, at least at the rear. If you look at the connector on the column, on the dash side you will probably see 2 light blue wires in the same spot, these are the front left signal and left front dash arrow. The 2 dark blue wires [together] are the right front signal and right front dash arrow. The yellow wire is the left rear signal/brake, the green wire is the right rear signal/brake wire. Try tracing the dark blue wire and the green wire to see where they go.

It is possible that the bulbs do not match the sockets, that is sort of unlikely since the left side works properly. 1157 bulbs have offset pins on the sides, I forget the number but some dual filament bulbs have parallel pins.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

I did swap bulbs just to make sure and no change. Thanks for the info , hopefully I'll get into the column very soon and see what I can find.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Just got home from up north and wanted to look through the boxes of spare parts that came with the truck... Look what I found..... I haven't done anything else yet but it does tell me the previous owner has tinkered with the switch at least. He's also the one who wired the front indicators into the rear wires. No update yet, just wanted to share that. lol

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Nick not sure how your column is set up but every one i have changed you need to remove the pins from the white plug end feed them through and re install. without the tool or being careless its easy to damage the lock that holds the pin in place when you couple the two together. what can happen is the pin only partially engages then just pushes back out of the connector. odd that it would only be one side but easy to check by looking down the end of the plug and feeling for loose wires in the connector.

attachment.php?attachmentid=775265&stc=1&d=1310993806

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Ok I'll do that thanks.

I actually can exactly duplicate the symptoms I'm gettign on the right by only partially engaging the lever to the left, so it's making me think more and more it's switch related issue.

But I'll check the connectors for any loose connections. the actual pins and connections don't look nasty or corroded though.

If wires look ok and nothings loose I'm gonna pickup a new switch tomorrow and try that, I need a puller don't I for the collar on the spline?

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

You will need a puller again look under your horn button . the older ones you used 2 bolts through the puller that bridged the column shaft and jacked against the shaft..... after you removed the nut of course. smile newer one might be slightly different?

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

No Horn button, here's what I got.

I'm prob just gonna make my own puller at work tomorrow I guess. I checked with the only guy on my street that I know that might have one and he has 2 holes not 3.

All the wires at the harness on both sides seem to be just fine didn't find anything loose.

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Do yourself a favour before you rush out and buy/install a new switch, test the old switch by taking the plug apart that connects the column. Use a continuity tester or a 12volt to test the operation of the switch.

If the arrows on the dash are working for both sides, the switch is working for the signals at least!

If you insist on changing the switch, once you get the steering wheel off, there is another ring that has to come off. There is a simple tool that makes life a whole lot easier to remove that ring and especially to re-install it. You can easily make the tool.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

ok thanks

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

If you don't understand the testing process, feel free to PM me and I will give you my phone number, then I can walk you through it easier than trying to type it out.
Hopefully we can sort it out over the phone.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

haha... just sent you a pm.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Newer then they let me play with smile this should help

No idea why it does that but right click the first sentence .

http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/steering.html

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

on sale a princess right now!
www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Pullers-And-Bearing/46-pc-Bolt-Puller-Kit/2923480.p

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

I could be wrong, that set will certainly take the steering wheel off, but I don't think it will help remove that ring I was talking about.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

sucp_0707_01_z%2btilt_steering_column%2bspecialty_tools.jpg

this one

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Thanks to Model A for explaining how to test the harness.. lol I guess it was that obvious I didn't actually understand how to test it.

Here's what I got....
Looks like it's the switch front right is showing resitance,

multimeter - 0.6 (probe to probe)

Left Rear - 0.6

Left Front - 0.6

Right Rear - 0.6

Right Front - different readings from 3.5-7.0 - but showed 6.5 most of the time.

I guess that front right being a bad connection is messing up the whole right side?

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Sunday 6th of July 2014 09:38:02 PM

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

slim wrote:

this one

The tool in the bottom left corner is definitely the one for removing/installing the ring. Thanks Slim!

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Nick a bad wire to the right front shouldnt take out your brake light with the signal centered Seeing you got the hang of what you're doing. check between white and green , white and yellow you should read 0.6 with the signal switch in the center. Hopefully there is a problem there too because it looks like you will be digging into that part anyway. Hate to see you get that fixed just to find more problems.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Ok great, thanks I'll do that tonight. I was curious why a bad connection in the front would take out the brake, but I also saw a bad license plate light take out half my lights as well so didn't think it was all that odd. But I'll do that check you just suggested tonight.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

I grabbed a turnsignal switch on the way home from work. plugged it in, and no change.

I checked the wires on the current switch for the brake wire like mentioned above, and it seems to be fine.

Here's my brake switch, how do I go about troubleshooting this switch to see if it's functioning properly?

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

All the brakelight switch does is it allows the current to go beyond it. Grab your probe light, and see if you have juice to switch, then push down on brake petal, and see if you have juice on both sides of switch.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Your brake switch is the white wire if it didn't work the left brake light would not work also trace your green wire right rear and your dark blue wire from the body side of the switch to the light and look for damage or bad connections. another thing to check is take your Ohm meter pull the 2 bulbs in question and disconnect the indicator bulb check from green to a good ground( body side of plug ) and dark blue to ground you should not get a reading. if you do that wire is bare and touching something.

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Checking for a reading from the body side to a ground of the green and blue wires should be easy, but tracing the wires to the lights is going to be quite a chore, gonna take some time for that.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

your only other option is to run two new wire's . but sooner or later you will have to confirm that they are wired correct. if the green wire goes to the emergency flasher or the heater its not ever going to turn on the brake light.

-- Edited by slim on Monday 7th of July 2014 09:52:59 PM

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

So I pulled the battery, pulled the rear right bulb and check for resistance. The turn/brake wire is showing resistance, tail wire is open. So that means I have a short in my green wire somewhere correct?

Also I disconnected the right taillight and ran a separate 12v wire from battery to check both wires on the taillight to make sure they light fixture was functioning correct and both filaments light up and the ground to that taillight was fine.

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Tuesday 8th of July 2014 01:39:22 PM

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

Seeking some professional help from some guys tomorrow. lol
Thanks to all you guys for trying to help me.

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Nickeleye wrote:
So I pulled the battery, pulled the rear right bulb and check for resistance. The turn/brake wire is showing resistance, tail wire is open. So that means I have a short in my green wire somewhere correct?

Also I disconnected the right taillight and ran a separate 12v wire from battery to check both wires on the taillight to make sure they light fixture was functioning correct and both filaments light up and the ground to that taillight was fine.

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Tuesday 8th of July 2014 01:39:22 PM

When you checked for resistance on the green wire, did you have it disconnected from the column as well? If you did, then it seems like you do have a short on the green wire somewhere.

Did you also check the dark blue wire going to front right [I didn't feel like reading through all your posts again for the answer] ?

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

no worries. And no actually I didn't unplug the turn signal switch, it was just in neutral position and battery disconnected. Checked the wires at the bulb contacts. Anyways I'm hopefully getting some help tomorrow, we'll see how it goes.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

With the turn signal in the center position I think you are correct if you had the turn signal switched to turn right you could be getting a reading from the indicator bulb. I suspect the problem is the rear wire though seeing turn and brake doesn't work .... two separate power feeds White and purple

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Nickeleye wrote:
Seeking some professional help from some guys tomorrow. lol
Thanks to all you guys for trying to help me.

Dam Nick you were closer to winning then the leafs have been in 40 years. Lmao

-- Edited by slim on Tuesday 8th of July 2014 07:42:26 PM

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

slim wrote:
Nickeleye wrote:
Seeking some professional help from some guys tomorrow. lol
Thanks to all you guys for trying to help me.
Dam Nick you were closer to winning then the leafs have been in 40 years. Lmao

-- Edited by slim on Tuesday 8th of July 2014 07:42:26 PM

I don't know Nick. If Slim is using the Leafs for a comparison you better get the Professional help. biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Nickeleye · COURTICE, ONT

haha.... poor leafs....

Well I said I was giving up but I couldn't.
I think I may have actually isolated the problem!!! (hoping there's only one problem. lol)

Here's a quick diagram of what I got (minus the trailer harness that's spliced in which very well could be the source of my issue)
So I found where the harness that runs to the rear hooks up with the fusebox.. was hard to see... anyways I finally spotted it, it was dirtier than a hobo. Cleaned it, didn't fix the problem.

Ran a 12v wire to each of the wires to see what got power, yellow got power, brown light up both taillights, green did nothing.

Checked for resistance, all the wires showed little to no resistance and the green wire showed as a broken connection.

Still going to see some guys to help tomorrow but it looks like I may ahve at least narrowed it down a bit.

Learned a LOT this week! lol

-- Edited by Nickeleye on Tuesday 8th of July 2014 08:14:15 PM

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

slim wrote:
Nick a bad wire to the right front shouldnt take out your brake light with the signal centered Seeing you got the hang of what you're doing. check between white and green , white and yellow you should read 0.6 with the signal switch in the center. Hopefully there is a problem there too because it looks like you will be digging into that part anyway. Hate to see you get that fixed just to find more problems.

In order to check the green wire to the right rear taillight, you would have to disconnect it from the column. Otherwise you would be reading through the left rear brake light which would show resistance through the filament to ground. The signal switch being in the center position allows the power from the brake switch to go out to both rear taillights at the same time until the signal switch is moved either left or right. Please see top diagram.