I am about to help my Dad swap a 1995 5.0L into a 1996 v6 Mustang. Before I undertake this HUGE task of changing over the engine and all of the related electronics etc. I was wondering if anyone knows how this would play out with the drive clean testing. The way I read the website is that it will be tested as a 1995 5.0L Mustang even though it is a 1996 V6 Mustang. I just want to get it clarified before doing the work instead of getting it done and then getting bad news that he can't plate it now. I am also going to have him go in to a testing facility and ask them but I always like to get other opinions.
Plus, I think they punch in the VIN which will come up as a V6 Not saying there isn't away around it, but check it out 1st with testing facility and or MOE !!! Yep could be a 'large" can of wigglers
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A 95 engine into a 96 car , engine will have to meet the spec for the newer car. If a 96 engine was put in a 95 car it would have to meet spec for the newer engine. They got you either way.
If the engine from the 95 (the 5.0L) was not available in a 96 Mustang it can be classified as a hot rod. This will have to have documentation to prove this.
It will get tested as a hot rod and have to meet 1980 emission specs during a 2 speed idle test.
OBD 2 testing doesn't start for light duty vehicles until 1998.
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I suggest you contact Rick Lalonde directly as he works for the Ministry of the Environment for Ontario, and more specifically the Compliance Division, at 416-314-4804.
He can answer your questions (or get the answers) regarding this swap.
According to Google, the 5.0 engine was available in the 1995 and the 1996 Mustang. As I understand it, your car would NOT qualify for 'hot rod' status being that a 5.0 V8 was available in the 1995 Mustang. I think, in the eyes of the MOE, you are simply installing a replacement engine. BUT (and it may be a really BIG but), if Petebil is correct, with the car being OBD1 and the engine being OBD2 ... well, I just don't know how they'd deal with that. I highly recommend you contact the MOE directly for the definitive answer.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
As if the waters couldn't get any murkier, it appears (based on Google searches) that the 1995 5.0 Mustang was OBD1 but the 1995 V6 Mustang was OBD2. So confusing.
-- Edited by Barchetta on Thursday 18th of June 2015 01:53:33 AM
Thanks for the replies. I am having my Dad go into a testing facility today to ask them if they would test such a setup or not. In 1996 Ford switched to the 4.6 litre engine in their GT cars and did not offer the 5.0 litre anymore so technically a 1995 5.0 litre in his 1996 Mustang is an engine that was not offered in that year and Model. That is why I thought that it could be classified as a hotrod. This whole emissions thing is such a pain in the ass.
I'd personally be more apt to take the word of a gov't official who works in the division handling this stuff over someone employed to operate a test facility, nothing like getting the correct info directly from the horses mouth (and once you get that info from them, ask for it in email form so you can print it out and keep it with you).
I was in contact with Rick Lalonde myself regarding an engine swap I intend to do (in my case both car and engine are carbed ... no OBD anything). Rick was very helpful. I emailed him several times for clarification as the answer I got from him at first was not only not what I expected to hear, it also didn't make sense to me due to other stuff I had read regarding the MOE and emission control issues ... I now know (and fully understand) exactly what is required for my specific scenario.
I believe you are correct though, if you are swapping a true 5.0 into a year of Mustang that only offered a 4.6 as its V8 option, then I expect it will be considered a hot rod by the MOE.
Not suggesting what you are contemplating can't or shouldn't be done but those Ford modular motors are extremely tough stock and work very well when modified ... wouldn't you be a lot of money, and headaches and power ahead if you sold off the stuff (your 1996 car and 1995 5.0) and just bought a 4.6 powered 1996 Mustang? Just saying, as these projects always cost more than and take longer than expected and I bet a 4.6 1996 Mustang could be bought pretty reasonably now, with them being almost 20 years old.
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-- Edited by Barchetta on Thursday 18th of June 2015 10:54:48 AM
In my opinion I don't see any problem with that swap..The guys doing the e-test would not likely have a clue that you made any swap as long as everything is neat and tidy ..that car gets a sniff test as it is not OBII compliant ..So as long as it passes the E-test emissions what difference would it make to them..The car has to be tested every two years ..and as long as it passes the emissions test for the vin they punch in the person doing the test would not even know what the hell engine is it nor would the emission tester machime as it is just looking HC/CO/ and knox// anyway so, I would just try to find the test levels for the V6 as compared to the V8.. as long as it passes I don't see any problem..If for some reason you have e-vap issues with the purge or vent valves not working correctly or some issues with getting them to work with the 5-ltr ECU..Thats where I might be concerned trying to get the system from the V6 ECM to talk to the 5-ltr e-vap system if you can get that to function correctly so it runs those self tests to vent the system ..I would not worry about the engine swap that would the least of my concerns .. This has been done many times I believe the main issue to overcome is the e-vap system..that's where all those fking tree huggers get you ...you can thank those money grubbing A$$hole Liberals for that ..
In my opinion I don't see any problem with that swap..The guys doing the e-test would not likely have a clue that you made any swap as long as everything is neat and tidy ..that car gets a sniff test as it is not OBII compliant ..So as long as it passes the E-test emissions what difference would it make to them..The car has to be tested every two years ..and as long as it passes the emissions test for the vin they punch in the person doing the test would not even know what the hell engine is it nor would the emission tester machime as it is just looking HC/CO/ and knox// anyway so, I would just try to find the test levels for the V6 as compared to the V8.. as long as it passes I don't see any problem..If for some reason you have e-vap issues with the purge or vent valves not working correctly or some issues with getting them to work with the 5-ltr ECU..Thats where I might be concerned trying to get the system from the V6 ECM to talk to the 5-ltr e-vap system if you can get that to function correctly so it runs those self tests to vent the system ..I would not worry about the engine swap that would the least of my concerns .. This has been done many times I believe the main issue to overcome is the e-vap system..that's where all those fking tree huggers get you ...you can thank those money grubbing A$$hole Liberals for that ..
The guy doing the e-test will be scratching his head when he tries to plug the machine into the ALDL port only to find out the wires go nowhere. If that car has an 85 engine (OBD1), then a 2-speed idle test must be performed.
There is no DLC on that car it's not OBll..It just gets & the gas cap and 2 speed sniffer..but it has to pass the emissions for a 96 ..Dlc OBDll was not in Canada till (& and even some 97 were not compatible with the DLC connection but all 98 & up get the DLC test..They are looking to make sure the monitors are all running..
The reason we are doing the swap is that the 1996 V6 that he bough looks brand new. It is mint underneath, inside, outside, under the hood, you could eat off of it. It is correct that there are GT's out there at a pretty reasonable price however I have not seen something as clean as his V6. So to me it is worth the work to swap over to a V8. The plan is to swap over everything from the 5.0L car. Engine, trans, ecu, all emissions equipment, drive shaft, rear end, etc. It is going to be a ton of work but the end result will be worth it. He has talked to a test facility and the MOE I believe and they told him that his car does meet the definition of a hotrod and they gave him the "hotrod package" to fill out and bring in. It meets that definition because the 5.0L was never offered in the 1996 Mustang. My Dad is old school and the 5.0L to him makes sense where as the 4.6 is some sort of new fancy over head cam thingy that he doesn't really know as well. Is main goal is something that will light up the back tires now and again and sound nice. It's pretty easy to accomplish that with a 5.0L IMO.
Hey I say go for it..I am old fker and you only live once..and we ain't takin any thing with us..you only get one life so spend it wisely and leave with no regrets..
Lol, hey I'm all for the OHV engines but you know how the old guys are, just kidding. I used to work for an old guy at a engine machine shop and he has forgotten more than I will ever know.
