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RICHMOND, ONT

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motor/cab interferance help
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So I go to put my cab on the frame today as I had some extra people around to help.  As you can see in the pictures the cab hits the dist. before the mount holes line up.  I still need to move the cab forward about 2-2 1/2".  Currently the motor mounts are welded in line and on top of the front cross member.  If I take it all apart I can move the motor forward about 4" max but that would mean new custom frame mounts.  If I cut out the firewall and transmission cover not sure what the next thing that will cause.  Not being a welder really does not help the cause either.  Any other ideas?  What would happen to the handling if I move the motor forward?  It would look a lot better in the engine compartment for sure moving it forward.  Would also mean scraping my new driveshaft.  Does the motor have to sit on top of the front cross member? IMG_3997.JPGIMG_3996.JPG



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S/W ONTARIO

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That question should start quite a debate!!!!!!!!

Look at all the room from engine to the rad.

If it was mine I would move the engine but that's just me or find a bigger engine.

The big thing is don't get discouraged.

Good luck

TMJ 



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CLINTON, ONT

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I would bet.... that a member would help, cut a small area and weld in a recessed box area....  

I had the problem with a Sunfire with a 355 V8  

I actually used a sled hammer and pounded the firewall back   I did a nice job     yes really   



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WOODLAWN, ONT

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Sorry you are in this predicament. If you do not want to cut off the frame mount it looks like the engine mount can be adapted with a plate to move the engine ahead 4"s. You will have to move the trany mount ahead an equal amount. Please post some pic's from lower side of the engine/ cross member to see what the clearance is. Yes you will have to replace the driveshaft but it is much better than cutting the firewall up.



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BUCKHORN, ONT

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i'd be inclined to forget about the crossmember and mount the engine with front and mid plates.



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What's going on with the engine mounts that bolt to the engine? Why am I seeing four bolts instead of the usual SBC three? Is there some kind of spacer thing in there now? (it looks to me like there is a spacer of some sort in there).

I thought you had the rack modified to clear the oil pan, did you also have to install half inch or whatever spacers between the engine mounts and the block, as well as the rack mods, to get the engine to fit?

If that's what I am looking at, can you make new spacers that are offset, moving the engine forward an 1-1 1/2 or so?

Something else to look out for though, is moving the engine/trans forward going to cause you issues with steering linkage?

I think I read that you got this project from a friend named Paul, can you contact Paul and ask if the engine mounts were installed where they are now, for a specific reason? Can you contact Flatout Engineering to determine where engine mounts should be mounted, when using their kit? If the Flatout kit was designed to work on your year of vehicle, they might be familiar with the issues you have come up against.

If the engine IS too far back, and the present engine mounts needed to be shimmed to deal with the rack placement, it might be time to just cut those engine mounts out and redo them correctly this time. As stated, I'd be asking this Paul person, why the engine mounts are where they are ...... was it a mistake or are they located there for a reason?

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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Easiest way......no cutting....no moving.....no redesigning.....

Get a small head distributor with a box.....like pertronics...about $250 usd from the states

try www.skipwhiteperformance.com ships to niagara falls us in about 2-3 days

it has solved MANY clearance issues for me....quick easy and cheap....if your not a welder

Just sayin

call me for specifics

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Easier still ..... a Summers Brothers front mount for the present dist. No firewall issues, no drive shaft issues, no trans crossmember issues ..... just happy happy happy biggrin

toss on some SB Ford valve covers and it will look like you kept it all Ford biggrin

 

summers brothers front drive.jpg



-- Edited by chips on Monday 7th of December 2015 10:34:43 AM

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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Cool....how much? and where?

Water pump clearance?????



-- Edited by Cat in the Hat on Monday 7th of December 2015 10:37:51 AM

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DUNDAS, ONT

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At 760 US it might be worth it and cool if it solves the problem but if you still have interference with the bell you are not much further ahead . The rear cross  member could be boxed easy enough to bring it forward what you need.. the front ?



-- Edited by slim on Monday 7th of December 2015 02:52:39 PM

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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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If you pull the engine out and install the mount in front of the frame mounts instead of between the 2 ears will everything clear? That is will the oil pan clear the rack? Then make up one new ear mount. I know this means a new drive shaft, but only other alternative is cutting a big hole in the firewall.

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S/W ONTARIO

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Lightspeed Mike wrote:

If you pull the engine out and install the mount in front of the frame mounts instead of between the 2 ears will everything clear? That is will the oil pan clear the rack? Then make up one new ear mount. I know this means a new drive shaft, but only other alternative is cutting a big hole in the firewall.


           Moving ahead the width of the insulator on the  mount is what I did to my '40 when I changed bodies. You could also gain another inch like Glenn said with a smaller distributor 



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Cat in the Hat wrote:

Cool....how much? and where?

Water pump clearance?????



-- Edited by Cat in the Hat on Monday 7th of December 2015 10:37:51 AM


 

 

Yeah, $750 US + + 

 

Not shown in the pics, but Summers Brothers sells them with waterpump spacers.  That means spacing out the crank pulley too, then dealing with alternator/PS pump line up issues as well.  Ok, so not exactly "easy easy easy" hmm  but it can be done.

 

I really just posted that up as a bit of a joke to be honest biggrin, although it is an option, it's not one I would ever choose no.

 

I guess the easiest way to handle these issues would be to just do what the previous owner did ...... sell it to someone else biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin (just kidding).



-- Edited by chips on Monday 7th of December 2015 01:25:59 PM

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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Be a cool way to F-up the ford boys with your chebby with the distributor in the front...lmao


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RICHMOND, ONT

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I will try tomorrow night to post a pic of the motor mount from a different angle. Moving the motor forward will solve a few problems. I measured the oil pan and that is why I know I can move the motor 4" max. It will centre the motor front to back a bit better as well.
chips, you are looking at a motor mount spacer that Mike from Lightspeed metal design made for me. The frame mounts were welded in to far apart so that solved that problem.
Paul assured me when I bought this that he worked with Flatout Engineering to set the frame mounts. At one time I did talk to Flatout but they have nothing to do with the motor mounts.
Anyway just a little frustrated right now. Looking like I will have to take this project apart and start again.

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Ok, it's looking like you're going to have to move the engine/trans and lengthen the drive shaft or alter the firewall.

You already have a spacer between the block and the tubular engine mount. You can make up a new, larger (not thicker .... longer) spacer that bolts to the block in the same spot (obviously) but allows the tubular spacer to mount 2-3" (or whatever you determine is best or needed) towards the back of the engine (basically instead of a 4" x 4" x 1/2" plate you will now have an 8" x 4" x 1/2 plate ... just picking number out of my head here). This will allow you to retain the existing engine mount frame tabs. This will move the engine forward without the need for welding .... how far will be determined by the size of the plate and the hole spacing.

Now the trans mount. With the engine relocated in its new position, the trans mount will obviously no longer meet up .... bridge that gap with another chunk of flat plate that you drill four holes into.  Two holes bolt to the trans mount on the tranny, the other two bolt to the existing trans cross member.

Your drive shaft obviously needs to be lengthened if this method is used.

This moves the engine and trans forward for firewall clearance and appearance. If, after moving the engine trans forward, you still have some slight firewall clearance issues, you can change the dist out for a small bodied one or heat the firewall a bit and smack some clearance in there with a hammer (not kidding).


The relocation method mentioned above allows you to move the engine and trans with no welding and the truck doesn't leave your garage. With your having raised the engine with the spacers you presently have, a trans spacer might be needed to restore correct pinion angle anyway.

Worth thinking about.

Or you can just say "screw it, this is going to bug me too much, I'm cutting everything out and redoing it", it's your call.  Either way, you're still into it for a drive shaft so how much more is it really going to cost to fix the "wrongs" and just do it correctly.



One other thing that's kinda bugging me ........ with the engine/trans installed poorly (too far back in the chassis and frame tabs too far apart) I can't help but wonder if the front and rear suspensions are in the correct spots.  It would really suck if you put this whole thing together, just to find out the back wheels are 6 inches forward of where they should be or the front wheels end up 3 inches back of where they should be.  If you haven't already, I'd be thinking my next move (after moving the engine forward using the spacer plates) would be to mock up the truck with the front fenders, box and rear fenders and some real wheels, similar in size to what you intend to use to make sure you are happy with where they are before you go any further (sure hope they're positioned correctly after your having the frame boxed).

 

Good luck with all this.



Any idea why this truck came up for sale?  Serious question.









-- Edited by chips on Tuesday 8th of December 2015 09:28:29 AM

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RICHMOND, ONT

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IMG_3998.JPGIMG_3999.JPGChips, thanks these are good ideas as well. I have a couple of pictures here but not sure they will show what you would like henry. It is real tight for space there for the camera to get a picture. Would be nice for someone way smarter then me to take a look at this as well, just so I know what is feasable.

Not sure but may have a problem making plates as I think (read not sure) I will run into my headers after that.  Looking like I will have to make up some new mounts but not sure how.

Chips I got this because the guy selling it was in the middle of a divorce.  The rear I think is right.  Had the box on with a fender and the wood wheels and it looked right.  Here I go again, not sure when to buy wheels. Would like to buy a new box and some rear fenders that are 3" wider then stock.  I like that look.  The box needs some love and I think by the time I have that all done it will be cheaper for me to buy a new one the way I would like.

 

Marten



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BUCKHORN, ONT

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wouldn't it be easier to use front and mid mounting plates like i suggested earlier ? get rid of the cross member entirely. works good on my stude. in these pictures you can see a bit of the mount plates.

012.JPG010.JPG



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S/W ONTARIO

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never too late to get the wheels and tires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I would go with Mikes idea on the mounts,,,,,,,,,,,,IMO

 

TMJ



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Not looking like an offset engine mount spacer is going to work, as you stated, your headers are in the way.

I'm in agreement that the easiest solution would be to just move the tubular mount to the other side of the forward frame tab, remove the rear tab, fabricate one new tab (each side), use a piece of flat plate to move the trans mount forward and be done with it.

However, easy doesn't make it right. If you have to remove two of the four tabs AND take the chassis somewhere to be welded, AND lengthen your drive shaft ..... NOW is the time to knock off ALL FOUR tabs, remove those spacer plates, flip the tubular engine mounts upside right, and place that engine in the correct location. Just moving it to the other side of the forward tabs may still not give you enough firewall clearance. Why risk it?

I vote you redo the engine placement entirely.  Anything else at this point is just a compromise ...... and in most compromises, you lose something somewhere.

 

Knock those tabs off, position the cab on the frame, then locate the engine properly (keeping in mind, firewall to dist clearance, fan to rad clearance, oil pan to rack clearance, oil pan to ground clearance, trans to floor clearance etc.  





-- Edited by chips on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 03:07:22 PM

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PORT ROWAN, ONT

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I would consider some type of front mounts like Studeshaker did. I had to go that way when I put a BBC in my 56 Cad last winter. Use the bolt holes on the front of the block. That's how all tri5 chevs were built anyway. That way you get the motor up front and save the firewall. You may be able to get a front mount kit from Speedway or Summit Racing. They have been around for years. (SBC mounts,that is )

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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image.jpgThis is the front mount i made for the INSTIGATOR. not competed 



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hotrod-steve wrote:

Use the bolt holes on the front of the block. That's how all tri5 chevs were built anyway. That way you get the motor up front and save the firewall.


 

I think you'll find that tri-5 Chevys ran engine mounts at the very front of the engine (as you suggest) but also ran another set of mounts off of the bell housing (rather than a trans mount at the far end of the transmission).  It is my understanding that it is not recommended to run early style front mounts (like tri-5's) with a later style trans mount that is very near the back end of the transmission.  Something about too much unsupported weight between the two mounts.  I'm not saying it can't be done or that it hasn't been done but you gotta wonder why GM didn't do it that way ........... 

 There are other arguments regarding the use of a flexible or solid trans mount when using front and rear engine plates too.  If this thing is to be a street driver, I'd take cues from the highly educated engineers/designers employed by the OEM and copy factory mounting points rather than mixing them from different era's. 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by chips on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 08:04:10 PM

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RICHMOND, ONT

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Thanks guys and I so value your opinions. I will look at all these ideas and come up with a game plan. Now maybe I should learn to weld. Just thinking out loud right now. lol

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PORT ROWAN, ONT

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chips wrote:
hotrod-steve wrote:

Use the bolt holes on the front of the block. That's how all tri5 chevs were built anyway. That way you get the motor up front and save the firewall.


 

I think you'll find that tri-5 Chevys ran engine mounts at the very front of the engine (as you suggest) but also ran another set of mounts off of the bell housing (rather than a trans mount at the far end of the transmission).  It is my understanding that it is not recommended to run early style front mounts (like tri-5's) with a later style trans mount that is very near the back end of the transmission.  Something about too much unsupported weight between the two mounts.  I'm not saying it can't be done or that it hasn't been done but you gotta wonder why GM didn't do it that way ........... 

 There are other arguments regarding the use of a flexible or solid trans mount when using front and rear engine plates too.  If this thing is to be a street driver, I'd take cues from the highly educated engineers/designers employed by the OEM and copy factory mounting points rather than mixing them from different era's. 

Just my opinion.

 

I have had the same concern using front- rear mounts but have never had a problem. Also,I use large vibration isolators from Spaenaur .Easy to install and works well. Marten -take a basic welding course-best thing I ever did to build hotrods! 

 

 



-- Edited by chips on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 08:04:10 PM


 



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