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Post Info TOPIC: frame support ideas sought


FOXBORO, ONT

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frame support ideas sought
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it is a stock 70 chevelle h/t car with some big power that i am asking about. i don't notice much stress with street tires on but with the slicks it is noticeable and i am not sure where or how to add some support to the frame. gusset the corners is probably a starter point  but is there some other places to think about. 

-never had to worry about this much back in the day as you would just drive till it fell apart or the door wouldn't close without lifting it up and slam. you could just go find another donor car and switch the drive line over. the donors today aren't 2-300.00 anymore sort of thing. 

 



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Solid body mounts and a 6-point cage.

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will look into the kit that is available that adds side braces ...sort of the kinda of reinfrocements the convertible used only thicker an better.direct weld in an then if u go chips route as well it aint gonna be flex .n just lifting the wheels...

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TORONTO, ONT

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A-body frames are pretty weak.

You can start with an elco or convertible frame as they are completely boxed. That is where I would start. If you use somemetal with some thickness like 1/8" plate, it makes a big difference, but you can also use 14 guage. You also should put in the rear suspension braces that tie the upper and lower control arm mounting points together. Edelbrock and others make them, and they were stock on some cars like 442's.

Solid body mounts help but will put more stress into the body. A roll cage is really the ultimate in stiffening.

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BUCKHORN, ONT

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yes, boxing the frame and control arms is a good start.



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FOXBORO, ONT

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studeshaker wrote:

yes, boxing the frame and control arms is a good start.


 i found these kits from ABC which seem pretty straight forward, http://www.abcperformance.net/frame%20boxing%20kit.html

frame kit.jpg

and i have this on it now from hotchkis, http://www.hotchkis.net/product/1968-1972-gm-a-body-adjustable-rear-suspension-package?mk=47&yr=1970&md=21448&sm=1087

hotchkis.jpg

there is also a set of bags inside the rear coils for the little extra stiffness when the slicks are put on

air bag.jpg

i guess i need more explanation from myself. lol

 

 

 

 



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BUCKHORN, ONT

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play around with air pressure in the bags rick. you'll want more on the right side than the left. it will help with squatting.



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WOODLAWN, ONT

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I have done some rear arm boxing for a couple of fellows, seems to help with stiffening the arms but we did not tie the frame mounts together. The Turbo Buick guys have a rear frame stiffener for their cars. As for a roll bar system if you want to insure it on the street my buddy found out no insurance co will insure the car, he had to cut one out of the Camaro he bought.

Try looking in here.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/brakes-suspensions-tires-wheels.54/



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FOXBORO, ONT

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shag766 wrote:

it is a stock 70 chevelle h/t car with some big power that i am asking about. i don't notice much stress with street tires on but with the slicks it is noticeable and i am not sure where or how to add some support to the frame. gusset the corners is probably a starter point  but is there some other places to think about. 

-never had to worry about this much back in the day as you would just drive till it fell apart or the door wouldn't close without lifting it up and slam. you could just go find another donor car and switch the drive line over. the donors today aren't 2-300.00 anymore sort of thing. 

 


 more info, like i said back in the day i didn't get into this sort of stuff as it was all about doing what you do with whatever tech in the day to pretty much run light to light, up water st and down george with 2 or 3 visits a week to the south service rd or curve lake for some arm drop stuff in the peterboro area. mostly big power, for the day, small block and 4 speed with a couple of big blocks that would get at it also, 68 hemi runner for one. none were ever built for the track which was cayuga as the closest.

today it is way more than twice the power of the small blocks and close to double of the rated power of the hemi with an automatic that i still have to shake my head over how well they work. i am not looking to go to the track and be competitive as then you take away the cruising fun of it. 2 or 3 times a year down at arm drop in picton with the slicks on is enough for me. with street tires it is there but not like the slicks. i guess i am looking for entry level stuff/ideas that is a help. anything i do is twice as much as yesterday sort of thing. i did think about solid mounts and a cage but figured if i was going to that end of it i may as well tub it and put ladder bar or link on it but not for 2 or 3 times a year. i learned that one at shannonville at the 1/8th mile. i couldn't catch cars with 1/2 the power but set up for the track but i wouldn't want to go for a cruise for the day in one of them. 

never thought about boxing an a-body gm frame, makes sense. i was thinking a bracket here-a bracket there and a couple of gusset's here and there. thanks guys and don't be shy.      rick

 

 



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FOXBORO, ONT

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studeshaker wrote:

play around with air pressure in the bags rick. you'll want more on the right side than the left. it will help with squatting.


 yea i play with that doug. it is about a 3 or 4 lb spread on the pressure. it don't squat much and is straight but there telling me i am still spinning a 1/4 of the track before it hooks. i know when it does hook it turns into a freight train. 2 or 3 times a car will get out 4-5 maybe 6 lengths and about 1/2 to 3/4 track i go by like a train. first time for that was with fastchevy from north bay. he jumped me by 4-5 and i went oh-oh. about 1/2 track i went by but it just boiled down to hp and enough track. i would never of caught him on an 1/8th mile track. that little deuce of his will get at it. you and him would be a fun race to watch i'm thinking.

a typical arm drop day. get up-go to the shop give it a once over and put on the slicks and adjust air pressure in them and the shocks. put it on the trailer and go to picton and unload. warm it up take 3 or 4 passes and put it back on the trailer and go home. next morning give it a once over, change the tires, let the air out of the bags down to about a couple of lbs to keep them inflated and go for a cruise somewhere.

it goes from this in line

IMG_0153.JPG

to this with the hammer down. lol-i just noticed the guy is still on his tip toes.

IMG_0159.JPG

i could let some air out of the tires to help but it is darn near close to lifting without no serious traction set up. i always figured if your lifting them you are putting power in the wrong direction. up instead of straight sort of thing. i don't take it too serious. i am just there for the grin factor, lol.



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ONTARIO

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RacerRick wrote:

A-body frames are pretty weak.

You can start with an elco or convertible frame as they are completely boxed. That is where I would start. If you use somemetal with some thickness like 1/8" plate, it makes a big difference, but you can also use 14 guage. You also should put in the rear suspension braces that tie the upper and lower control arm mounting points together. Edelbrock and others make them, and they were stock on some cars like 442's.

Solid body mounts help but will put more stress into the body. A roll cage is really the ultimate in stiffening.


 Some 60s Chevelle frames I am storing behind the barn. The bottom one is a convertible  and you can see how it is boxed compared to a sedan frame on top. Behind the axle they are both the same. You are talking $1,200 to $1,800 for a convertible frame so I for one would box the one you have if it is solid. Or you could use an El Camino frame but you would have to shorten it a couple of inches behind the axle.2016-04-18 2016-04-18 001 005.JPG2016-04-18 2016-04-18 001 006.JPG2016-04-18 2016-04-18 001 009.JPG



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BUCKHORN, ONT

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if i can get my chevelle on the lift rick i'll post some pics of its underside. it's fully boxed in the frame and control arms. very stiff chassis and the right rear sits a touch higher than the left. the car was built to launch hard but is a dream to drive on the street. if i can get finished up with the racecar i'll put the 67 up and take some photos. i notice your slicks appear to have maybe too much air pressure. have you tried running about 12 lbs ?



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WEST PERTH, ONT

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I know from the Valve guide thread, I'm supposed to MYOB, but..

I have some very little experience when I with Alston. They made frames, suspensions and such if you never heard of them.

Way back when somebody decided to drop killer engines into Unibody cars, things kinda changed. Lots of guys were literally trashing their cars because of the torque and twisting.

We certainly 'twisted' many bodies, and I think the Supernash has finally seen its last suspension (not quite yet until Carl gets involved and gets that damn Cooler etc).

Jus MYOB'ing so I don't get in trouble.





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TORONTO, ONT

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The four links in A-bodies have large bushings that will allow for the differences int he arc of motions of the upper and lower arms. You won't have binding unless you put solid bushings in everywhere. Usually you keep urethane bushings in the upper arms axle mounts, and they flex enough that you will never have problems.

If you want you car to hook, work on the front suspension also. Moroso Trick Springs, and lakewood adjustable shocks are always a good start, along with some lightweight front rolling stock. Once you get the rear suspension dialed in (get adjustable rear shocks - QA1's are probably the cheapest good ones) with lots of weight transfer from the front suspension, you will see a lot of body twist and flex. The reason your pics are not showing it now is that you are not hooking well. Get the frame stiffened up, and try to eliminate that before it messes up your car. I still have my first car in my shop with about a 15 degree twist in it because I was young and dumb.

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