Article for Discussion

Livetodrive · MARKHAM, ONT

Article for Discussion

Pete Moss · GTA

Not really enough info for me to go on ... for example: did she buy the truck thinking the cert was good/legal/legit or did she buy the truck uncert and she herself (or a family member) decided to buy a fake cert?

I'd also like to know what the issues were with the truck that would make it fail a legal cert and whether these issues contributed to the accident.

Had a friend (years back) who got a Volare wagon off his father. Took it in for a legal cert and the mechanic came back with a bunch of stupid stuff that was clearly just the mechanic looking for extra work/money. One item that I specifically recall was "passenger door window hard to wind up or down". I can't remember any of the other "issues". BTW, the "hard to wind down" window claim was total crap. At that point my bud sourced a fake cert and drove that car for years without issue. I should add, this was not a rotten pile of crap that should not have been on the road, it was a very well taken care of car.

Sometimes fake certs are just easier to deal with even if the car is fully capable of passing. Picture this: you buy a mint car off an old lady. Car hasn't been driven or licenced in years but it is damn near perfect. You get it home, give it a tune-up, check the brakes (all good), front end (all good), not rot/floor are perfect etc then decide that it's too much of a hassle to book a time with a mechanic and tow/trailer/tow truck it to the shop. I know some who've been there and done that.

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

I just wonder if the mechanic just did this one time or did they have info that it was a regular thing for him?

Years ago, before emissions tests etc, this was a pretty common practice if you knew someone.

Livetodrive · MARKHAM, ONT

Pete,

I'm the first to admit that I am one of those A hole Techs and I won't sign off on DIY welding repairs, wheel spacers, perforated rockers and the like. My initial knee jerk reaction was that the guy got his just deserts (he never looked at the truck). I did some digging and found out that the 21 year old operator was passing vehicles at a high rate of speed, on a two lane road and lost control when he pulled back in. He hit the girl head on. The main deficiency quoted was a steering box play of near 122mm, the spec is 55. My "holier than now" stance changed a bit when I hear it was a lifted truck, travelling well over the 80kmh limit. Its a horrible tragedy and I don't have enough facts to form an opinion but food for thought. If your friend with the Volare ended up in a lake and could not roll down the window to get out, would that present like this in the court system? By signing your cert am I responsible for how you operate the car.

Pete Moss · GTA

For some reason I assumed the girl died as a result of driving the fake certed vehicle not by being in a collision caused by someone else in another vehicle that had been fake certed.

As for the "window too hard to roll down", it wasn't .... no windows on that car were hard to roll up or down and I know that first-hand, this isn't an "I heard from someone" story. If buddy ran it into a lake, he could have easily gotten out of any window in the car. Wish I could remember all the other stuff it supposedly needed. This mechanic was just fishing for a moron who would sign off on anything the mechanic said it needed. In my buds situation it was easier to get an illegal cert over trying to find an honest mechanic.

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

Its a horrible tragedy and I don't have enough facts to form an opinion
Food for thought. =
By signing your cert am I responsible for how you operate the car. = NO

Questions: in relation to this info..
Did some digging and found out that the 21 year old operator was passing vehicles at a high rate of speed, on a two lane road and lost control when he pulled back in.

Question:is. What charge's were laid Against =The 21 year old .
question: The main deficiency quoted was a steering box play of near 122mm, the spec is 55. .= was there any others? or just the steering play.?Found by the reconstruction team.{accident investigation team}.
Question:in relation to Lifted truck were the sway bar and links in place?

Sound's like there was bias in this trial.

Regardless it is a horrible tragedy .One that could have been avoided through due diligence.

I'm sure an appeal will be filed.

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Monday 13th of November 2017 09:37:44 PM

Livetodrive · MARKHAM, ONT

I was not suggesting your friends car was or wasn't fit, just using it for a point. I actually thought I posted this second article for you and Pounder.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2017/06/07/driver-pleads-guilty-in-2012-fatality-that-killed-camp-kawartha-worker-abigail-macnaughton-criminal-negligence-trial-begins-for-vehicles-mechanic

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

William "Billy" Towns, the then-21-year old driver of the truck, pleaded guilty Monday to dangerous driving causing death and uttering a forged document and will be sentenced June 30.

Was justice served at sentencing ?

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2017/06/30/three-years-in-prison-for-driver-in-fatal-crash-near-peterborough-that-killed-abigail-macnaughton

Was not long enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pete Moss · GTA

The mechanic broke the law by writing a fake cert but I do not think he was responsible in any way for this accident. If the steering box was truly so worn the truck was virtually uncontrollable, either the new owner or the previous owner would have replaced it BEFORE the accident happened.

This accident was due to someone driving a lifted truck like it's a sports car ... not something that any mechanic has any control over (if they aren't the driver).

If the truck had had total loss of control due to the pitman arm dropping off the steering box, then THAT is something I could agree was the mechanics fault but that didn't happen here.

Pete Moss · GTA

Here's something interesting ... the below is the driver of the truck being quoted in one of those news articles.

"I'm deeply sorry for the pain I have caused, it does not weigh lightly on my mind or heart," he said, his voice quivering. The 25-year-old said he'd forever wear the scars of his exceptionally poor choices and that he'd give his life to spare Ms. MacNaughton's. "I will spend the rest of my life striving to right that wrong," he said, crying".

Yet earlier in the article it mentioned this: "Towns (the driver of the truck) received a three-year sentence, a 10-year driving prohibition and isn't allowed to contact MacNaughton's family or friends. He received the maximum suspension for his license because he was charged with a DUI following the crash that took Ms. MacNaughton's life".

I am not sure if I am reading this correctly but it sounds like he was charged with DUI at a later date, unrelated to this accident as there doesn't appear to be any mention of him being impaired at the time of the head-on collision that took the life of Ms. MacNaughton .... not exactly how I would expect someone who is trying to "spend the rest of my life striving to right that wrong" to act confuse

Edit: "The Lakefield man who killed a young woman in a head-on collision five years ago while driving a pickup truck with a falsified safety certificate was sentenced to three years in prison Friday. William (Billy) Towns pleaded guilty to dangerous driving causing death and uttering a forged document when his trial got underway on June 5" ... no mention of being impaired. Sorry, I know this isn't exactly on topic but I had to mention this. Seems this clown is a real A-wipe.

-- Edited by Pete Moss on Tuesday 14th of November 2017 07:34:27 AM

supernash · WEST PERTH, ONT

I'm not sure how to weigh in on this. Not enough info really.

When I was Licensed, I wouldn't let things slide. I've seen it all like the rest of you.

Rotten frames gooped up with tar to cover it, tie rods and center links moving a few feet etc etc.

These days I just take stuff to Uncles and he goes over it and tells me what's wrong. I fix and then take it back. I'd never risk someone getting hurt or worse, and put my or Uncles reputation/license in jeopardy.

Key words there are 'I take it back'.

Those dum-ass 4x4's the kids are into with lift kits etc just seem to me as stupidity.

Changing the geometry from factory steering etc, just has never seemed like a good idea.

Just my 2 cents

Livetodrive · MARKHAM, ONT

I don't like to Monday morning quarterback based on a newspapers take on the situation but it touches a nerve for me. I won't sign off on DIY 4 link set ups, back half jobs, replacement frame rails or boxed control arms because I can't say if the characteristics of the vehicle have changed. People don't get it. Will it handle the same, crumple the same or will the frame rails turn into spears that take out the occupants or pedestrians? I've seen people laugh at the way the factory welds are placed on the frame thinking they can improve on them. Truth is they are designed to crumple and minimize the damage to the occupants. The MTO officers can now arrange for a structural inspection to mitigate the liability. I think we have all seen this Dart that the owner thought was perfect.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2008740/watch-muscle-car-driver-loses-back-axle-on-alberta-road/

Pete Moss · GTA

Livetodrive wrote:

I won't sign off on DIY 4 link set ups, back half jobs, replacement frame rails or boxed control arms because I can't say if the characteristics of the vehicle have changed. People don't get it.

I get it. It's your licence and (based on what happened to the mechanic who signed the fake cert in the accident this thread originally mentioned) it's really is your neck on the line too. You have every right to refuse ANYTHING you feel is unsafe/not up to par.

Parallel ladder bars and parallel four links bind when the car leans going around a corner. Lot of people either don't believe it or don't think it will ever be an issue but when used on a street car that is street driven often, it can very well be a problem. I had a ladder bar fail on me somewhere south of Sarnia in a tubbed street car ... and it failed simply because that type of suspension is NOT designed for use on a street car. Sure there are lots of "well I've never had a problem with my ________ " but that doesn't fix the flaw in the design (that may or may not be obvious to the owner). Another example is a roll cage or roll bar ... can look super cool on the street, definitely beneficial on a true race car BUT, it can also be deadly on the street due to no helmet to cushion head contact and no 6-point harness to keep you securely in the seat.