new trailer regulations [Rumor?]

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

new trailer regulations [Rumor?]

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

Hey pete. Cant address the rumor..
However would like to state an draw attention to your comment of :my Yukon has "car plates" & I did this to avoid the hassle!!!!
Keep in mind that you are onto the correct way to stay out of their bull****.
Goes like this..Private vs Commercial .
Private is just that.Also remember private automobiles are considered house hold goods an are tax exempt.[yes there is case law to back such statement up will post later]
They [automobiles ]are part of your estate which they "CANNOT" Trespass upon.
Blue plates signify Royalty
Black plates signify Corps..Dead entities corporations.
Remember through they do things to claim they are keeping folks around you safe..
The reason [ house trailers still exempt] Is because they are a type of living quarters which can be used as a home in some cases.Which is part of your estate under house hold goods and they can not tax your estate.
The yellow sticker is a form of road tax.
The public has "Free" right of access to all roads /highways including tunnels an bridges.
So why are you paying for a "free" right of access?
lots more but i gotta run...

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

I'm going to "remodel" one of my travel trailers to become a hauler.

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

My dual axle trailer used to be a house trailer......There were no tags on the frame so I had it redone as homebuilt........Guess I am screwed if what Pete says is true.

My stuff 008 (Medium).jpg

Petebil · ONTARIO

poncho62 wrote:
My dual axle trailer used to be a house trailer......There were no tags on the frame so I had it redone as homebuilt........Guess I am screwed if what Pete says is true.

If it's a homebuilt your trailer won't have a GVWR so the only thing you need to do is make sure you are never over 4500 KG or 9900LBS (truck +trailer+load). Assuming your truck weighs 5600LBS with driver, and the trailer is 1200LBS, this would mean the heaviest load you can legally put on that trailer is 3100LBS.

TIME TRAVELLER · NIAGARA REGION, ONT

The current requirement for the annual inspection of commercial vehicles in Ontario requires the inspections (and thus the yellow stickers) on COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLES – as defined in the HTA – and SUV’s don’t meet that definition (see excerpts below). However, once a trailer like Poncho’s is hooked to a commercial vehicle (say, a pickup truck), the rules do apply, but only if the weights involved exceed 4.500 kg (9,920 lbs.). Those weights are the COMBINED weights of any of the three categories - the actual weight of the truck and trailer (and any loads), the registered gross weight of the truck (the weight you paid for on the ownership), and the manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (RGVW) on the ID plate on the truck and trailer. The number of axles is irrelevant. Those are the laws right now and they’ve been in place for a long time, not anything new. I haven’t heard anything about any changes to the HTA regulations on this issue so I’m guessing the rumour mill just got a tune up and somebody’s taking it out for a road test!

R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 611
SAFETY INSPECTIONS
HTTPS://WWW.ONTARIO.CA/LAWS/REGULATION/900611

1. In this Regulation,
“commercial vehicle” means a commercial motor vehicle* and any trailer* or trailer converter dolly drawn by the commercial motor vehicle, but does not include a bus, a school purposes vehicle or an accessible vehicle;

* From the Highway Traffic Act.
Interpretation, general
Definitions
1 (1) In this Act,

“commercial motor vehicle”, unless otherwise defined by regulation, means a motor vehicle having attached to it a truck or delivery body and includes an ambulance, a hearse, a casket wagon, a fire apparatus, a bus and a tractor used for hauling purposes on a highway;

“trailer” means a vehicle that is at any time drawn upon a highway by a motor vehicle, except an implement of husbandry, a mobile home, another motor vehicle or any device or apparatus not designed to transport persons or property, temporarily drawn, propelled or moved upon such highway, and except a side car attached to a motorcycle, and shall be considered a separate vehicle and not part of the motor vehicle by which it is drawn;

8. (1) A commercial vehicle is prescribed as a type or class of vehicle to which section 85 of the Act applies if it has a combined gross weight exceeding 4,500 kilograms. (9,920 lbs.)

Petebil · ONTARIO

TIME TRAVELLER wrote:
The current requirement for the annual inspection of commercial vehicles in Ontario requires the inspections (and thus the yellow stickers) on COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLES – as defined in the HTA – and SUV’s don’t meet that definition (see excerpts below). However, once a trailer like Poncho’s is hooked to a commercial vehicle (say, a pickup truck), the rules do apply, but only if the weights involved exceed 4.500 kg (9,920 lbs.). Those weights are the COMBINED weights of any of the three categories - the actual weight of the truck and trailer (and any loads), the registered gross weight of the truck (the weight you paid for on the ownership), and the manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (RGVW) on the ID plate on the truck and trailer. The number of axles is irrelevant. Those are the laws right now and they’ve been in place for a long time, not anything new. I haven’t heard anything about any changes to the HTA regulations on this issue so I’m guessing the rumour mill just got a tune up and somebody’s taking it out for a road test!

Question about what I've highlighted in your above statement;

Almost every pickup truck out there for personal use is registered for 3000KG (6600 LBS). An average 1/2 ton pickup truck with driver weighs around 5600 LBS, which leaves 1000 LBS for cargo (hence,1/2 ton).

Cargo includes the tongue weight of the trailer, but not the total weight of the trailer. Basically, the truck's 4 wheels cannot transmit more than 3000KG without increasing the weight on the ownership. Is this correct?

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Iwannagofast wrote:
I'm going to "remodel" one of my travel trailers to become a hauler.

I should have expanded on that a bit. Once the suspension and frame are sufficient the entire "box" - walls, roof, etc will be re-installed with the rear wall being a ramp. It will still "look" like a travel trailer, curtains on the windows, air conditioner and all.

TIME TRAVELLER · NIAGARA REGION, ONT

Peterbil, this gets a bit confusing because we’re talking about two different laws under the HTA. For the purpose of a paying for a particular “registered gross weight” (RGW - the weight on the ownership), Regulation 628 (“Vehicle Permits”) says a trailer that transmits 2,800 kilograms or less to the ground is NOT part of the gross weight of the combination of truck and trailer - see below. So, if you have a pickup registered for 3,000 kg and you’re towing a trailer that puts 2,800 kg or less to the ground, (excluding tongue weight), the truck is legal with only the 3,000 kg RGW. Now, if that same truck is NOT towing a trailer and is loaded beyond 3,000 kg, it’s technically overloaded and it’s in violation. Not that this is a hot item for most officers but it’s still a no-no. However, all of this is only for the purpose of the registration requirements for the truck and it has nothing to do with the requirements for the annual inspections and yellow stickers – that’s the second law I was talking about. For these stickers, the 4,500 kg rules still apply regardless of the RGW of the truck. In fact, a truck and trailer combo that isn’t even registered (no plates at all) or has switched plates (and thus no RGW) still requires the yellow stickers if the total of its actual scale weights or the Manufacturers Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (MGVWR) exceed 4,500 kg. Ain’t the law fun?

Iwannagofast, that might work as long as an officer doesn’t take a close look and sees hinges at the bottom of the rear “wall” or sees you loading a barn find into your “travel" trailer! Good luck.

www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900628

REGULATION 628 – VEHICLE PERMITS
INTERPRETATION
1. (1) In this Regulation,

“gross weight” means,

(b) in the case of a commercial motor vehicle, other than a bus, the combined weight of the motor vehicle and load or, where a commercial motor vehicle is drawing a trailer or trailers, the combined weight of the motor vehicle, trailer or trailers and load but, where a trailer transmits to the highway a total weight of 2,800 kilograms or less, that weight shall not be included in determining gross weight;

-- Edited by TIME TRAVELLER on Friday 1st of December 2017 11:14:07 AM

-- Edited by TIME TRAVELLER on Friday 1st of December 2017 11:14:34 AM

Petebil · ONTARIO

Thanks for that explanation, and thanks for explaining the 2800KG trailer exemption law.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

TIME TRAVELLER wrote:
Peterbil, this gets a bit confusing because we’re talking about two different laws under the HTA. For the purpose of a paying for a particular “registered gross weight” (RGW - the weight on the ownership), Regulation 628 (“Vehicle Permits”) says a trailer that transmits 2,800 kilograms or less to the ground is NOT part of the gross weight of the combination of truck and trailer - see below. So, if you have a pickup registered for 3,000 kg and you’re towing a trailer that puts 2,800 kg or less to the ground, (excluding tongue weight), the truck is legal with only the 3,000 kg RGW. Now, if that same truck is NOT towing a trailer and is loaded beyond 3,000 kg, it’s technically overloaded and it’s in violation. Not that this is a hot item for most officers but it’s still a no-no. However, all of this is only for the purpose of the registration requirements for the truck and it has nothing to do with the requirements for the annual inspections and yellow stickers – that’s the second law I was talking about. For these stickers, the 4,500 kg rules still apply regardless of the RGW of the truck. In fact, a truck and trailer combo that isn’t even registered (no plates at all) or has switched plates (and thus no RGW) still requires the yellow stickers if the total of its actual scale weights or the Manufacturers Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (MGVWR) exceed 4,500 kg. Ain’t the law fun?

Iwannagofast, that might work as long as an officer doesn’t take a close look and sees hinges at the bottom of the rear “wall” or sees you loading a barn find into your “travel" trailer! Good luck.

www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900628

REGULATION 628 – VEHICLE PERMITS
INTERPRETATION
1. (1) In this Regulation,

“gross weight” means,

(b) in the case of a commercial motor vehicle, other than a bus, the combined weight of the motor vehicle and load or, where a commercial motor vehicle is drawing a trailer or trailers, the combined weight of the motor vehicle, trailer or trailers and load but, where a trailer transmits to the highway a total weight of 2,800 kilograms or less, that weight shall not be included in determining gross weight;

-- Edited by TIME TRAVELLER on Friday 1st of December 2017 11:14:07 AM

-- Edited by TIME TRAVELLER on Friday 1st of December 2017 11:14:34 AM

I wouldn't cut corners when it comes to safety, it would probably be over-built if anything. I'm just tired of our Gov't and all their b*llsh!t.

TIME TRAVELLER · NIAGARA REGION, ONT

By the way, that 2,800 kg is 6,172 lbs - I usually convert metric when I do this but forgot.

RWW · PICTON, ONT

poncho62 wrote:
My dual axle trailer used to be a house trailer......There were no tags on the frame so I had it redone as homebuilt........Guess I am screwed if what Pete says is true.

Make sure you have the serial number on the trailer. As home builds have no serial number they use the file number that is on your ownership. I went to a Trophy Shop and had a plate made with the number and ownership info ($6.75) then pop riveted it on. I talked to the MTO inspector and that is what they want. I guess they are trying to match the ownerships to the trailers.

Pete Moss · GTA

Quote: "Make sure you have the serial number on the trailer. As home builds have no serial number they use the file number that is on your ownership. I went to a Trophy Shop and had a plate made with the number and ownership info ($6.75) then pop riveted it on. I talked to the MTO inspector and that is what they want. I guess they are trying to match the ownerships to the trailers".

I have a small homebuilt trailer but never bothered to stamp or affix a serial plate to. Been hauling it for years that way, never been a problem but that doesn't make it right. I'll be getting a small plate made as I'm positive the plate will be cheaper than the fine. Thanks for the info.

RWW · PICTON, ONT

The MTO didn't tell me to get the plate made. They want the file number on the trailer to identify it. My thinking was if a trailer mfg can rivet a tag on their trailers I should be able to as well. I don't think the number needs to be stamped on the trailer.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

If its home built stamping the number and your initials in a different location would resolve any dispute as to who owns it. Not likely to ever happen but for the 5 minutes it would take you protect yourself against theft or just someone saying thats my trailer.

Pete Moss · GTA

Either a plate or stamping into the frame makes sense. My trailer is obviously homemade (just by appearance) and I do have an ownership for it but there is nothing on the trailer that states the ownership I have goes with my trailer ... so doing one or the other (or both) would be wise. If I was ever hassled, the cop probably has the option to impound the trailer if he was feeling so inclined at that time which would mean a good buck or two on my part to retrieve it. I remember seeing an episode of one of those judge shows where some guy spotted "his" homebuilt trailer, that he had reported stolen a while earlier, at a gas station ... cornered the people towing it then called the cops. Unfortunately he had no proof of any sort (no stamping etc) that it really was his trailer. He had the ownership but no way of linking that ownership to the trailer in question. The cops did nothing. He then took the matter to court (tv court) and the judge said the same thing. Turns out there was a plate affixed to the trailer and it matched the "thief's" ownership but that is something the alleged thief could have easily riveted on after stealing it (take the plate of his rotten/rusted trailer and swap it onto his new acquisition). I'd say it would be best, to take both avenues and not only rivet a plate that can be easily found and seen but to also stamp into the frame, in an out-of-sight spot, something that will leave no doubt that it is yours if you have to prove ownership. A thief might think he covered all bases by just replacing the plate ... no realizing there were other identifying marks elsewhere.

It's time ... I'm going to do both.

Ziggy · TRENTON, ONT

About 10 years ago, I have a friend that was given an old camper trailer. Did not come with an ownership. Ed went to the MTO and THEY gave him a vin number too use. It is classified as a homemade trailer. We took a piece of stainless steel and stamped that vin number onto it.
He got pulled over once with it (MTO spot check on the 400 N during a long weekend). Officer asked him for the ownership and then asked to see the vin number. Ed opened up the camper door and on the left side of the door was where we screwed the plate to. Officer thanked him and said have a safe weekend.
If you look at your ownership, on the upper left side it should say BRAND NONE. Below that it should say FILE and then a 9 digit number. That 9 digit number is your vin number. Take the time to stamp that onto a piece of stainless or wield it somewhere on the frame. Like slim said, 5 minutes of work can save a whole of hassle.

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

Speaking of trailers....This one is the Cadillac ...
If anyone is interested in purchasing send a p/m
E-mail wire transfer will be needed to secure..
Thinking it will take between 6500 - 8500 to land it.
If such amount does not purchase such Wire transfer does not get cashed out!We all walk away.
www.impactauto.ca/Vehicles/VehicleDetails

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

Trailer has a buy it now price..$12'795
Remember there's fees on top.
www.impactauto.ca/Vehicles/VehicleDetails

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Sunday 17th of December 2017 11:31:49 AM

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

thanks for update my Boss bid 10g on it . He has bought a unit in Florida, but that big brute is nice

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

427CARL wrote:
thanks for update my Boss bid 10g on it . He has bought a unit in Florida, but that big brute is nice

Impact is not what it use to be they have become greedy .

The bid was an if bid an was actually 9100 which they should have took,If it does not sell for the buy it now they will only auction it again anyways.

Now also remember the fees they charge the buyer are +HST

Now img they also charge the seller+HST

Corporate hoars[remember there is case law that supports the fact that used Automobiles can never be taxed as long as they are not put to commercial use they remain part of your estate under house hold goods]

So much corporate fraud an extortion goes on these days.[Just think WyNN...We aint winning are we?]

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

I find that the 3rd time through, the price becomes more realistic.

Ground Pounder · Senior Member

www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do-i/set-fines/set-fines-i/schedule-43/

Smokin Joe · ONTARIO

In Feb. I bought a Wells Cargo trailer that had very little use. It was certified but on the way home had to pull the front wheels off as the linings came off and locked the drums up. Sitting to much will have to replace al four corners. Lucky it was night coming home in the dark the 2 1/2 Hr. But it was certified.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Certified doesn't mean it won't break, & it's not a warranty but I would get in touch with seller or garage that did the "cert." & maybe bend their ear as to $hitty job??