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Post Info TOPIC: Licensing & Insuring A Scratch Built Car


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Licensing & Insuring A Scratch Built Car
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Hi,

This is a long, heavy post but please bear with me.


I'm hoping someone here can help me understand and navigate the rules for licensing and insuring a full-on custom that's not based on a production car.

I know that you can build and, if the certifying mechanic deems it built safely and correctly, have a certified homebuilt car.

 


This gets a little murky with online searches but this link from approximately 2017 :

http://www.svao.org/kitcars.html

details a possible major issue with homebuilt vehicles being registered as the model year in which the vehicle was completed.

 

Therefore, if I build a car and finish it this year, it will be registered as a "2024 Homebuilt".

 

This next part is quoted from Canadian Rodder (   https://www.canadianrodder.com/features/fyi/registering.htm  ),

 

"Homemade Vehicle

Constructed without using manufactured main components (e.g. body and chassis / frame both made from scratch), and therefore has no V.I.N.
NOTE: This designation is primarily for homemade trailers, constructed by the owner.

Homemade vehicles are registered in Ontario as:

V.I.N.: assigned "HOM"
MAKE: HOME
MODEL: HOM
MODEL YEAR: Year the homemade vehicle was built and registered with the
ministry.

Kit cars are not homemade vehicles, for registration purposes"

 

One of the issues here is that if a vehicle is registered as a 2024 Homebuilt, it has to have an Electronic Stability Control system (see that link I posted above that states vehicles built after September 2011 must have ESC).  So that's a significant hurdle.

Secondly, the major problem I see with pretty much any Homebuilt vehicle regardless of the year it was built is getting insurance.  I know for a fact that no "regular, run-of-the-mill" insurance carrier will insure a Homebuilt vehicle.  For that matter, from what they've told me, regular insurance companies won't insure any vehicle that's been modified.

*****  Hagerty specifically told me they will not insure these types of custom homebuilt cars.  *****

Hagerty told me to call a broker to ask about Facitlity Insurance. 

The broker told me you have to basically apply to Facility insurance to see if they will insure the vehicle.  At that point, IF they insure the vehicle, you're good to go but Facility insurance is two to four times more expensive than regular car insurance.

So, to summarize: 

1.  We scratch built a car.

2.  If we can somehow dance around the ESC issue, got a safety from a mechanic.

3.  Registered it with the Ministry and now have only one possibility of insuring it (Facility).

If Facility insurace falls through, then what? 

 

Or, 

If we buy an old car (let's just say a '51 Ford F1 to pick an easy one), go to the Ministry, register the truck in our name and then build a complete, scratch-built custom using some Ford parts here and there (but our Homebuilt looks more like a mix of a 1950 Allard J2 and Starbird's Predicta than it does like a '51 Ford F1), can it still be licensed it as 1951 Ford F1?  


Will a specialty insurance company insure a full custom like this (basically because the ownership says, "1951 Ford" even though it doesn't look anything like the 'donor vehicle') ?

 

Are there any other options?   Any workarounds or tips anyone can give me?

 

Thanks for your time!

 

 



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CAMPBELLFORD, ONT

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I really have nothing to add to the legalities of a homebuilt cvar, always started with some sort of real
deal automobile myself, for that alone I commend you , secondly, I really need to see this car since
you've described the Starbird Predicta as one of its inspirations, you had me from that moment on...
I always liked the Predicta then one year while at the Leadsled Spectacular as the Canadian Colonel
Daryl had brought the car to the show,as I was admiring it,he said,have you ever been in a bubbletop
show car,get in? Been thinking about a future showrod ever since that day..

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Buying selling and trading garage toys and big kid stuff.

 



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About 20 years ago I was driving my Triumph down Route 66 to California.  I'm tooling westward somewhere in Oklahoma (there's nothing but farmland in Oklahoma) and on the other side of the road I see the back of a billboard.

I pass the billboard, stick my head out the window and turn to read it - it's a billboard for Starbird's Custom Car Museum!

I had no idea it was there!

I U-turn and start following the signs.  Eventually, I see the museum and outside, uncovered, with flat tires is Bill Cushenberry's long-lost Mystery Car!  (At least that's what it was called back then.)   It was more widely known as the "Silhouette II".  The car had been lost for nearly 40 years and here I was in the middle of Oklahoma with my hands on it! 

They told me it had just recently been found.

 

The inside of the museum was filled with lots of customs and most, if not all, of Starbird's creations.  That was a neat day and my only brush with Starbird - all because I stuck my head out the window and read the billboard that was on the other side of the road.



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MARKHAM, ONT

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How about pics of your car?

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COBBLE HILL, BC

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Registering it as a 2024 auto, it will have to meet 2024 safety standards.
Air bags for one.....

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ETOBICOKE, ONT

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Contact Nick from INVision Prototypes, he has built a couple of cars from scratch that I know of and are on the road.
Located in the Niagara Area

www.youtube.com/c/iNVisionPrototypes

www.invisionprototypes.com/

www.facebook.com/iNVisionPrototypes/



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350SBC .030 Over - 0 to 60 when ever it gets there.



MARKHAM, ONT

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There is a homemade category in Ontario.
It will be designated HOM in the serial number.

Simply go to the MTO office and ask.


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FOXBORO, ONT

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jarvis1 wrote:

Registering it as a 2024 auto, it will have to meet 2024 safety standards.
Air bags for one.....


 Like Chris i have been involved with builds with ownerships, not from scratch, but i have helped with a couple of bike builds from scratch and it is a long road to hoe. At the end of the build it was the insurance that pretty much killed it.  



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Thanks everyone for you replies. I'll contact Nick at iNVision and see if he'll be kind enough to point me in the right direction.

If / when I find out anything worthwhile I'll post back here so the next guy who wants to do what I'm doing will hopefully have a leg up.

Thanks guys!

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This post was from a year ago, but what I have found might help out someone.

Licensing and registration is a complete, and different animal than insurance. Prior to the province downloading the Service Ontario to private contractors. There were people who did know the rules and what was required to register a "homebuilt vehicle". "Homebuilt" isn't a thing any longer....if your building a vehicle from scratch it will be designated as a "kit car", or "kit vehicle". If your not buying the components from someone else, you are the manufacturer of the "kit" being used. Main components you are building, or supplying' will be the body and frame. Or, possibly just the body. While the rest of the components, such as wheels/tires, suspension, rad, engine, transmission, rearend etc. are going to be bought, traded for, leftovers from other builds or what have you. The thing that cannot be stressed enough is you will need RECEIPTS for all of it. You will be asked for them. You need to have a notary involved at some point. The information you get from Service Ontario will/should have the list of requirements your needed to fulfill. It's a slug to get through....but how bad do you want it? The personnel at the private contractor Service Ontario are not created equal. A lot of them are lost, if it's not in the computer, they don't know. (Not really their fault, if they have never been taught or trained.) Don't be surprised if you get a "we don't do that anymore". Or just a shrug of the shoulders and a "I don't know!!") You may have to hunt around a bit to find someone that knows their job. Kind of like the Canadian Tire parts counter...I have a 74 Chev Impala 350 4 barrel automatic...I need a fuel filter, there's a long and a short style...I need the long one with the check valve. The kid behind the counter goes...Aha? The computer wants to know the interior colour and do you have floor mats?? You need to find the people who know their job....in both of these cases. Yes, you can build your "KIT CAR", don't call it anything else, you will only throw them into a tizzy. Best of luck with that part of it.

Insurance...the big bugaboo and often a deal breaker.

Good news, yep there is...no kidding...read on.

I was at the Toronto Autorama Friday Mar 7th 2025 'so, this is current'.
There were 5 or 6 things I wanted to do, and people to see while I was there, not just look at cool cars. One of the foremost things, was talk to the various insurance people and the companies. I...like the original poster, want to build a car from the ground up, and it's going to be highly modified. Now, in the past this has been kryptonite to the insurance industry. And it still is to some. Just so you know the back story, I'm looking at a vintage style stock car, 33-34 Ford style coupe body, typical perimeter frame, slant six Chrysler, manual trans, big buns, nerf bars, and 'holy crap' a rollcage. Only this car will have the additional giblets to make it street legal. Now that list makes insurance cringe...but the last one just sends them over the edge. And Friday was no different. The first stop was at the Hagerty booth, only because it was the first one I came to. I asked the gentleman just how modified could I go, before it was not insurable by them. I got a drawn out well...wheels, tires, paint, interior, engine chrome etc. To me, this are changes, not modifications. He asked what I had in mind and when I told him, I got a flat no. He did ask if I was planning on a rollcage... I said yes...he said no! Hagerty wouldn't cover anything like that, guess it's just to wild for them. He was nice about it all, and did suggest I talk to Vintage Insurance, and Zehr Insurance. He pointed them out to me, they were across the hall. Before I left, he gave me a swag bag and a drink cozy. Nice enough guy...or he figured I was going to be sitting on the sideline watching the other car drive by, and I could use a drink cozy to keep by beer cold this summer. On to Vintage Insurance.
Now Vintage is a broker out of Lindsay Ontario that deals with the various underwriters, just like many of the other insurance brokers. An older gentleman and myself had a nice chat and he mentioned that there are only three main underwriters that the insurance brokers work with. Each having various policies and products they offer. When I mentioned what I had in mind, the rollcage issue came up right away. A full cage that is structurally part of the frame work is a definite a no. However... a single rollbar and couple of braces that are bolted in and are there mainly for looks, would be likely be ok. (Notice the 'likely') A little more promising, but not really what I'm looking for. And we carry on. Stopped at a couple of other booths, one I think was Orbit, can't recall the other but they were brokers. Neither couldn't or didn't want to get involved with a project like mine.

Zehr to the rescue!! Told you there was good news. Yes, finally, someone that speaks my language. When I mentioned what I was wanting to do, I got a "sure, sounds cool, we'd cover that. Not sure he was getting what I was doing, I pushed a bit more with the rollcage issue. Still not a problem. His reply was a bit surprising, the insurance company didn't want padding on the cage. He went on with, "I'm a car guy and I'm trying to get that changed so padding can be used, it only makes sense. Everything else is air bagged, padded, rounded edges, etc. why wouldn't you have the cage padded as well." Holy crap!! Common sense, where did that come from?? The only negative thing that came out of all this, was NO parachutes. They insure the pro stock type cars with a 1000 hp etc. but no chute, whether it's for looks or whatever. Since I'm looking at a circle track replica and don't plan on running off a cliff...I don't need a chute. Hey I'm in like Flynn! Since I'm in line for knee surgery, I have to wait awhile before I can get started, but I will be touching base with Zehr before starting any project. Do your due diligence before starting any project and know who will back you up.
That's what I found out, and that's I experienced. Hope it helps.

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ONTARIO

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Thanks for the info Sniper.

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COBBLE HILL, BC

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They may not want padding on the roll cage, so they can inspect the welds.
If and when you do get an inspection and pass, you can add padding, parachute
and go balls, if so desired.

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RICHMOND, ONT

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My truck is covered through Zehr. They needed an appraisal and I insured it for that value. Lady I delt with was great

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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I too deal with Zehr. 4 specialty vehicles and 4 daily drivers plus household. Couldn't ask for more friendly knowledgeable people to deal with.

Warren

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