emmissions on older cars

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

RE: emmissions on older cars

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

flatblack55delivery wrote:
Can't find the vin on the sub going to look again tomorrow.Just when you think your ok it all blows up again ,just too f-ing frustrating. Ed

swing by ed i have the gm manuals that show where the vin should be located

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

Well I'm back on the road after installing all the emissions stuff I think I need (egr, pcv, dual cats, charcoal can/sealed tank, closed element air filter with hose running from valve cover to filter) ... fingers crossed I have done enough to pacify the MOE. I will definitely post the outcome if/when I get singled out and inspected.

Happy motoring :)

Chris58 · WATERFORD, ONT

Our car club briefly joined the NAACC who is a lobby group on the behalf of car clubs in Canada. THEY should be on top of this crap. There is so much gray area on this topic its unfathomable that they can get away with these fines. Has anyone challenged this? A crate motor should have all of todays emissions stuff on it. How can they be exempt? Its such BS. They proved E-testing was unfair and changed the rules as they went. No offence to those lucky ones in Northern Ontario, but do they pollute less than those of us in central and south west Ontario? BS! Who lobbied for the Northerners? I want them on our team! BS BS BS! What's next?

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I will have to check with one of the locals when the cruise's start up end of mth.He got "nailed last fall in 28 Model A with late model SBC!!! I'll see if he fought it or just paid the fine & complied with Emm. equipment??? I still say this is Bull/$HIT!!!Just a $$$$GRAB!!! Still waiting for Clairifiacation from MPP on "layman's vocabulary on the issue

-- Edited by dualquadpete on Friday 4th of May 2012 05:12:40 PM

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

From what I've heard and read, late model LS series engines seem to be the target of choice, easy to spot and impossible to make it look like a regular SBC

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

dualquadpete wrote:
Still waiting for Clairifiacation from MPP on "layman's vocabulary on the issue

Yep, still waiting here also Pete. Typical goverment, we'll get around to it attitude. The clarification was supposed to be available in March. confuse Here it is May and nothing. Meanwhile, I doubt that they'll ease up on the fines.

wgnracer · SMITHVILLE, ONT

All i can say is wow!! Hey, Time Traveller, My 65 Plymouth has a 68' engine in it. engine has stock intake , Pcv type in valve cover & factory valve cover breather, stock air breather.. has after market headers, and duel exhaust. No other pollution crap on it.. what do you think? Wait and see if i get pulled over...

Rob...

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

68!!! you should be "good to GO" no emmissions in 68!!!!! other than PCV

70 chevelle · COBOURG, ONT

thx for selling me up the river steve its got frame rails in it they are just not all there.

70 chevelle · COBOURG, ONT

and yes ive been pulled over three time 2 times in my 86 chev truck and once in my 84 grand prix. first time in my truck i had a seized air pump they let me off and said its only because i was going to get it fixed right then and he gave me his card and extention to call and let him know it was fixed. 2nd time was in my gp they followed me into my work and ask if i iwned the car and what yr it was then they looked under the car and looked under the hood and got pissed cause it is all stock and they couldnt find anything. the 3rd time was in my truck again pulled me over 845 a.m. on my way to work and he had a big attitude asked for my licence ownership and insurance then asked if id ever been pulled over by them before so i told him to go look on his ****ing computer and then youll know. i had another siezed air pump told him i had a new one in the box i was putting it on tonight. he looked at me and said how come its not on there yet. well lose it snap i almost became the champ didnt want to be an ******* but he just flicked the ******* switch on and he got attitude right back he give me my paper work back and told me to that i better have it on there tonight or it was going to be a major fine. i told him to **** off and left.

70 chevelle · COBOURG, ONT

the third time i got pulled over the guy told me they were targeting the older trucks and cars because they are never stock anymore everyones doing them up

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

70 chevelle wrote:
thx for selling me up the river steve its got frame rails in it they are just not all there.

wasn't trying to sell ya up the river. it was a very good example that it was 2 completely different arms of the law.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Well, here's the latest "tactic" the MOE is using!!! One of our car club guys son, drove into McDonald's in Lindsay, in his 85 Monte Carlo, [mags, nice paint & killer engine]as he went to go in store a fellow said "nice car" & asked a couple of questions then asked if he could see the engine?? The son is so proud of car he pops the hood, the guy looks & says WOW then pulls out a badge & tells him he's got 1 week to put everything back "LEGAL" if not $1200 fine ,surrender the plates or have them taken, & if caught driving it again[without correction] the car goes too!!!! I have to say that "YES" the car is ILLEGAL with whats been done to it & is subject to being Fined but the way the MOE got him is "DIRTY POOL" At least the officer was good enough to give a time line, but if not met, the fine stands!! along with plate removal. We still can't figure out if he was "undercover" or off duty but he had the ticket book w/him!!!

motornut · OTTAWA, ONT

Hi from Ottawa
we do etesting here too,but drive 5 min north and they can be exempt
have been hearing about people getting pulled over around Ottawa and down to the 401/416
impounding...plates removed....big fines....
that is scaring people from ,going for a drive down 401

2inchestoolow · CLARINGTON, ONTARIO

dualquadpete wrote:
Well, here's the latest "tactic" the MOE is using!!! One of our car club guys son, drove into McDonald's in Lindsay, in his 85 Monte Carlo, [mags, nice paint & killer engine]as he went to go in store a fellow said "nice car" & asked a couple of questions then asked if he could see the engine?? The son is so proud of car he pops the hood, the guy looks & says WOW then pulls out a badge & tells him he's got 1 week to put everything back "LEGAL" if not $1200 fine ,surrender the plates or have them taken, & if caught driving it again[without correction] the car goes too!!!! I have to say that "YES" the car is ILLEGAL with whats been done to it & is subject to being Fined but the way the MOE got him is "DIRTY POOL" At least the officer was good enough to give a time line, but if not met, the fine stands!! along with plate removal. We still can't figure out if he was "undercover" or off duty but he had the ticket book w/him!!!

Sounds like entrapment to me...

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Had a talk with his dad today, Fine stands no matter what & it's $1300 & they have to go to court. No Cats, EGR was there but hose was off, A.I.R. pump missing, & all plumbing gone, & manifolds were the "old" style. Their trying to "round" up the pcs. they need to conform & hoping judge will reduce the fine when court date comes???

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

dualquadpete wrote:
Had a talk with his dad today, Fine stands no matter what & it's $1300 & they have to go to court. No Cats, EGR was there but hose was off, A.I.R. pump missing, & all plumbing gone, & manifolds were the "old" style. Their trying to "round" up the pcs. they need to conform & hoping judge will reduce the fine when court date comes???

The air pump requirement sounds a little odd to me ... I've owned/driven/scrapped a LOT of the 81-86 G-bodies (still own/drive two ... 81 Regal and 86 Cutlass ... both stone stock and no air pump) and have yet to see an air pump on one (from 81-86). I did scrap an 87 Monte SS ... it MAY have had a pump on it (along with the electronic Q-jet).

If the year of the car in question actually is an '85, I'm thinking he can fight and win the missing air pump charge (unless that car came from the States/California and had one originally).

Note: I just purchased some really small "cats" from Karbelt Pickering made by Magnaflow ... tiny little things. I really don't understand risking the fines when cats can be bought cheap and aren't really limiting the performance of a street car. I should also add ... I do not have anything to do with Magnaflow or Karbelt Pickering.

-- Edited by Rusty Nuts on Friday 25th of May 2012 08:11:19 AM

-- Edited by Rusty Nuts on Friday 25th of May 2012 08:15:27 AM

flatblack55delivery · PORT HOPE, ONT

There is so much misinformation an rumor going around tha that I can see only 2 ways to fight this mess .You can run the way you are being the I don't give a flying f-uck rebel and hope you don't get poped and if you do hope you can fight it in court and if you do hope you win or get a lessor fine and if you lose pay the fines and the costs of getting your car legal or stop driving your ride.Option number two try to be as legal as possible and hope you don't get poped if you do hopefully you have reduced the fines to a managable leval and you can continue to drive your car.This problem is not going away as long as there is money in it for the MOE if we make it less lucrative for them by making our rides as legal s possible maybe they will move on to the next cash cow.I can afford 2 cats at $80 ,I cannot afford $700 for not having them .I have my own business an I am constantly fighting the town on various bylaws and rule changes so I will fight if necessary,this one I can't afford to fight maybe someone with deep pockets can,bottom line they are not going to take away the fun of driving my car ,I don't want to give them the satisfaction of making me afraid to go out so I chose to make my car as legal as possible and enjoy my summer.Remember if I am out there crussin and enjoying my ride,I win. Ed

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Just read an article in this latest edition of "old autos" from P.A.V.E. on this topic dated Nov. 2011 & they were going to have a meeting with MOE about the street rods being pulled over & try & get the facts straight on whats required "re late model engines" & not the yr. of car!!! & were waiting, as we all are" for confirmation of the "ACT" They also see it as a TAX grab & by not making it "public" of the "so called" changes leaving everyone in the dark. Also said, the MOE says the owner must "prove" yr of engine!!!!!! How do you do that after having engine "decked" & engine stamping is "GONE" & all thats left is the "casting" # that has a 5 or 6 yr. spread ?????

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

Some more thoughts of mine on the '85 Monte Carlo being required to have an air pump ... this could actually be correct I'm now thinking. Those cars came with a 305 (or a 6 cyl) and no air pump (to my knowledge) but I am now thinking that since he had a "killer" engine in it, I would bet he has swapped out the 305 for a 350. If the 350 came out of a newer vehicle (and they checked the engine numbers) that had an air pump factory installed, he is probably required to have it installed on his car.

Again ... WAY too many assumptions going on here (by me). If the car itself originally was NOT equipped with an air pump and he installed a newer engine that had an air pump, one would assume he needs to install one ... BUT ... what if the engine he installed was older than the car and had a factory air pump? Because the rules (apparently state "whichever is newer" ... this would suggest that even though the (older than the car) replacement engine had an air pump, the car itself is the newer of the two and never had one so he would NOT be required to install one.

If these schmucks can write up these laws and have them passed, why is it they aren't able to clarify what the real requirements are and forward that info to the people that need to understand them?

As stated, I have equipped my heap with everything I "think" it needs ... I will certainly post all information I can get out of the MOE dude when I get pulled over. (had the car out to Perth this past weekend for a cottage run and was downtown Toronto last night in it in Yorkville for the Gumball 3000 so I figure it is just a matter of time before the MOE and my car cross paths).

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

Older or newer engine than the vehicle itself, if it had an air pump then by there assumption it needs one now. When at the cruise night last Friday a guy pulls in with a 56 Olds, running a 94 LT1, looked nice but all the emission equipment was stripped off, prime fodder for the MOE guys from what everyone here has been saying.

SPEEDWRITER · TORONTO, ONT

First, I am not forum literate. So if I do somthing out of the ordinary let me know what I'm doing wrong. Pictures are an unknown for me but I'll try to get one of my sons to show me how, be patient.

I was one of the people involved in the meeting trying to decide the best way to attack the MOE's increased enforcement. I have seen their proposed plain language paper but I understand it has been sent off to their legal beagles so how soon they will have a final version is anyones guess.

A number of us have been writing to our MPP's and the Minister. Dean Renwick from PAVE has done a great job explaining the problems in his emails.However as I write this I don't believe he has had an answer from the minister, however his email went May 27th so that is not a surprise.

We need your help. I have been trying to reach someone who has actually been ticketed and have not been able to find anyone. The MOE claim they are not specifically targeting car enthusiasts. If you have had a personal experience, been stopped, received a ticket or tickets please contact me. If we are to get the MPP's on our side we need real examples of what went down etc. My email is bmcj@sympatico.ca be sure to give me a phone number so I can resond.

A couple of points,

The current bill is Ontario Regulation 361/98, within it they have an explanation of what they think is a Hot Rod. With the legislature due to close shortly it is doubtful we can get any meaningful changes made this year.

In the MOE meeting one of the goverment folks said "crate motors are for off road use only" I went and checked and the General has a tag saying just that on the engine when you get it. We tryed not to get back to that bag of snakes during the rest of the meeting.

This is not simply a Drive Clean deal, the MOE have jurisdiction anywhere in the province so even if you are in North Bay should they come to town they can enforce the bill.

The most disturbing thing to me is the fact that they are so focused on the "original emission equipment" being installed on the engine. Current technology has improved our ability to have exhaust that meet the standards they are trying to enforce without all the obsolete parts.

There are cats out there that will handle up to 800 horsepower provide clean air and no HP loss. All that is needed is a pcv and the cat. Not cheap though.

Anyway, I hope that someone can get me the information I need encourage our politicians to take our side.

Grumpy · COLDSPRINGS, ONT

Met A Guy At The Port Hope Cruise Last Sat Think He Was From Newtonville Or There Abouts.
He Was Telling Flatblack And I He Got Pulled Over In Bowmanville Last Yr. In His 84 P/U.
I Guess He Told The Guy From MOE That He Was Fixing All His Emission And That If He Wanted To He Could Follow Him To Canadian Tire.The Guy Not Wanting To Fine Him Anyway With Everything He Could Find.Gary(That's The Guys Name) Fixed It All And Than Took The Tickets To Court Where The Fines Were Thrown Out.Lesson Here Guys Is If They Nail You TAKE THE TICKETS TO COURT It's The Only Way We're Going To Win This One.
PS I Told Gary He Should Join This Site But So Far No Show

-- Edited by Grumpy on Tuesday 29th of May 2012 07:34:52 PM

-- Edited by Grumpy on Tuesday 29th of May 2012 07:37:26 PM

Seeker1056 · DOURO, ONT

Ok ,so this has been an issue in California for 30 years or more.

In fact so much so that ALL emmissions equipment for just about any general production automoibile in North America can now be had as reproductions.

Search ebay, and the internet - you may be very surprised.

Now - onto the goodstuff - it says working parts n pieces and visual inspection.
Well we have had "working cats n egr's for years, the egr also had a plate under it so the working egr didnt affect the motor, and so long as there remains no way to test the functionability of the motor with that working but plated egr, theres no issue
Same for cats - its a visusal - with no functionability test - so we take used cats, peel the case in two, clean it out, and then weld the case halves around a 2 1/2" pipe. For those who dotn wish to do all that then splurge for 3" performance cats - thay are about $75 each.

Carbon filter cannisters - they have no affect on the engine at all, and hiding them in plain sight is no real issue either for those of us who dont wish to see them.

You guys just need to get used ot the idea, and then get creative.

I am installing an 2005 8.1l (496 ci) big block Chevy engine in my 72 Chevelle this winter - and come spring I do not expect any issues with the MTO, or MOE in any way because everything they "look" for will be on the car.

Now - my thoughts on the MOE police - I was stopped by two nice gentleman a couple years back in my 89 F150. They were the nicest most polite two gentlemen i have yet to meet as enforcement officers. I had a cracked Ypipe, and all I got was a warning, and a business card to call when the crack was fixed. I even shook thier hands when leaving. Why - Contrary to what some of you have said here - these guys gave me no grief at all over an engine swap - the truck was originally a diesel, and now had a gasser engine in it. All they cared about was having intact emmmisions stuff for the year. And now the truth of the storey - this was a gasser truck with my diesel plates on it - they didnt even check the VIN - they just went off the info related to the licence plates and took my storey about an gasser engine swap necessitated cuz i needed the diesel motor for my race truck. ;o)

As an enforcement officer myself - I can tell you that storey would have been much different if I was angry, or belligerent, or abusive or any of the other things I see peope l do when confronted by enforcement officers of any stripe.
They have a job to do, and like you they need to put groceries on the table so they tow the line too, and follow the party line.
These officers do not get out of bed in the morning with the thought of how many people they can piss off or fine any more than you go to work thinking like that.

It is just unfortunate that we as car guys are at odds with unwanted change, and that comes out when confronted.

In any event - the legislation is EXTREMELY easy to read and understand if you stop fighting with the perieved unfairness of it.

Read my first couple sentences - and deal with how to get around things like we do

Good luck and enjoy

Seeker1056 · DOURO, ONT

sorry for all of the typos

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

If the MOE thinks there is a chance the person they pulled over is running hollowed out catalytic's, all the MOE needs to do (and I have been told they actually can and will do this test if they are suspicious) is "shoot" the cat with one of those gun type heat sensor thingys (laser maybe) ... then "shoot" the exhaust in front of the cat ... if the cat is functioning correctly, it will be a LOT hotter than the rest of the exhaust. Simple roadside test.

With the universal cats being so small and so cheap (relative to a factory original replacement), I really do not see the point in risking the huge fines by not running functioning cats.

My way of thinking ... if your engine/car requires emission control equipment, why not just comply. As I stated earlier (in an earlier post), I very much doubt these laws are simply going to go away.

I also can't help but wonder if complaining to the MOE regarding the perception that old cars are being targeted could very possibly paint an actual target on our backs ... the old "If these old car owners were legal, they wouldn't be putting up such a fuss".

In all honesty, how much power is a street driven car losing by running a pair of 2 1/2" or 3" cats and a functioning EGR valve?

Seeker1056 · DOURO, ONT

none - the ecm is designed around running them, and doesnt function properly without them in place

TIME TRAVELLER · NIAGARA REGION, ONT

SPEEDWRITER wrote:
First, I am not forum literate. So if I do somthing out of the ordinary let me know what I'm doing wrong. Pictures are an unknown for me but I'll try to get one of my sons to show me how, be patient.

Welcome Bob. (Where did "Speedwriter" come from?). Isn't this fun?

Grumpy · COLDSPRINGS, ONT

I Should Add That We All Know Emission's Are Here To Stay But If We All Take The Fines To Court There Is A Small Chance We Can Keep Some Of Our $$ In Our Pockets.Just Saying

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

i m don t know much about mechanic but can someone tell me what is so different between a 350 block without heads and intake about the years .................whether it comes from a 68 .......74 or in the 80 s or 1990 s....................so all the emission stuff control is all in the heads and intake and cats and everything else ..............should the moe only be interested in the years of the heads and other things................doesn t the heads from a 68 block fit on a block from the 80 s

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

I don't think the differences in the blocks (or lack of differences) matters to the MOE, I think the only thing that matters to the MOE is what year the block is and what emission controls that year of engine (or vehicle the engine was removed from) came with.

Yes, you can make a mid eighties SBC look just like an early sixties SBC but what it looks like won't matter if/when the MOE checks the block numbers and determines that the engine came from a 1984 Monte Carlo and is therefore required to have emission control systems installed and operating. Grind off all the engine numbers (gee, that won't look suspicious) and it sounds like it will be on you to prove the engine was cast before emission controls ... good luck with that with all the numbers missing.

From what I understand, the MOE is not interested in the cylinder heads themselves, they are interested only in the year of the engine block.

edit: On a SBC engine, the numbers/letters on the passenger side cylinder head deck surface of the block itself, generally visible when the engine is completely assembled and installed in a vehicle (typically behind the alternator), will tell an MOE inspector exactly what year of vehicle the engine was installed in. Most head casting numbers are located under the valve cover requiring removal of valve cover in order to read the numbers ... not easy to do during a roadside check. I think the other issue with using head numbers is the head casting numbers will not tell a person exactly what year vehicle the head was installed in or whether the vehicle was a car or a truck.

-- Edited by Rusty Nuts on Wednesday 30th of May 2012 09:08:00 AM

SPEEDWRITER · TORONTO, ONT

Time Traveller, foryears I have written about the performance aftermarket for a number of trade books and I just took that as a name.

I had a call from a person who has some of the info we need, he had trouble with my email, I just checked it and it as written correctly hopefully he was the only one that had trouble.

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

so all this stupid law tells me.....is if i go buy a 2003 dodge van on a used car lot the seller is better be willing to give me the papers with the proof that none of the previous owner change the engine for a newer one and if they did he should be the one who calls the moe to get it all inspected and pay for any change that the van needs to upgrade to the new laws of the year of the replacement engine .....................really kind of stupid law

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

flatduck, I totally agree. I can see it now ... granny has her 1971 4-door Chevelle (bought it new). The engine is tired so she takes the car to her mechanic and he orders for her and installs a rebuilt engine, trading in her original long block as a core. Problem is granny now has an engine block from a 1986 Camaro in her car (while thinking they just rebuilt her original engine) and is also unaware that she is now legally required to install all the emission stuff the 86 engine originally came with ... how is that fair?

"Fair" would be to go with the year of the vehicle PERIOD ... but that's (apparently) not how the laws are set up.

I just drove my old car (late thirties GM coupe) into Toronto (and back) today ... and didn't see a single other old car out there on the road. So few people drive the old cars enough for the old cars to have any possible measurable adverse affect on the environment due to lack of emission controls (at least that's how I see it).

If your car came with emission control equipment, it should have the stuff on it ... the year of the engine shouldn't matter at all.

flatduck · SUDBURY, ONT

what does this stupid law does for the car hobby doesn t it mean if i sell one of my old cars ........i ll have to supply i certificate that says that the engine is legal ...... or worst if you want to sell you ll have to let the buyer know it s illegal ...............i don t think any salesman will sign anything and be responsible if you get stop and that smart moe decide to slap you with a ticket

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

SPEEDWRITER wrote:
I was one of the people involved in the meeting trying to decide the best way to attack the MOE's increased enforcement. I have seen their proposed plain language paper but I understand it has been sent off to their legal beagles so how soon they will have a final version is anyones guess.

The MOE claim they are not specifically targeting car enthusiasts.

The current bill is Ontario Regulation 361/98, within it they have an explanation of what they think is a Hot Rod.

The most disturbing thing to me is the fact that they are so focused on the "original emission equipment" being installed on the engine.

First off, Welcome Speedwriter.

It's obvious that the MOE officials are grasping at straws to find a solution to this problem. They just don't have the proper information nor stats on older vehicles to make an informed decision.

To look at an engine stamp pad and look in a book for the info verifies their lack of knowledge on the subject. Being a "Hot Rodder" has and always will include original engine manufacturers modifications. That stamp tells absolutely nothing about what's inside that particular engine.

They keep extending the initial period that new vehicles need to have their first e-test because of lower emmissions. British Columbia is scrubbing their Air Care on Older vehicles. Since the inception of trying to protect our air, we have made leaps and bounds.

Have they considered the fact, the amount of time our old cars are on the road per year. Has anyone done a study to see how a newer cars yearly emmission output compares to an older car, garage kept for 6 to 8 months a year and only driven occasionally.

Lastly, How come we can't have access on the web to their secret lists of what each vehicle or engine number needs to have to be legal. This is exactly why people are crying cash grab!!!

If the MOE is truly concerned about emmissions, they should provide as much info as possible, instead of keeping everything a secret and just handing out tickets at will.

-- Edited by OldGuy 71Acadian on Saturday 2nd of June 2012 11:31:58 AM

69SS454 · MILTON, ONT

Next they will want me to put my wiper motor back in and the wipers back on.

Catch me if you can!

I agree with OldGuy...even if he's wrong

Hi Joe

-- Edited by 69SS454 on Saturday 2nd of June 2012 01:54:21 PM

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Regardless, we're waaaaay over Governed.

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

Yes we are way over governed cry

The Old car, Hot Rod, classic car Hobby is a big boost to North American business

But still a small number, compared to the general population...

Why not collect the taxes and leave us alone

Rusty Nuts · ONTARIO

"Lastly, How come we can't have access on the web to their secret lists of what each vehicle or engine number needs to have to be legal." (quote taken from Old Guy 71Acadian)

That's it right there ...

If I buy just an engine (not an entire car for parts) for my project car, I might know what it was installed in originally (by running the number) but I won't know for sure what emissions equipement it came with. If I buy an entire USED vehicle for the engine, how do I know a previous owner didn't remove some or all of the emission equipment before I got it? This "list" the MOE has is key to people being able to comply yet we don't have access to it ... ain't that nice.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Whether my vehicle is compliant or not I really hate having suits looking over my shoulder. A guy can't even take a p*ss beside his shop without someone wearing binoculars trying to bust your chops. Jeeze.

-- Edited by Iwannagofast on Saturday 2nd of June 2012 10:03:13 PM

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

Iwannagofast wrote:
A guy can't even take a p*ss beside his shop to mark his territory.

Fixed yer quote for ya. evileye biggrin biggrin biggrin

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

69SS454 wrote:
I agree with OldGuy...cause he's old, wise and always right.

Hi Joe

Fixed yours too, ya young punk. evileye evileye evileye biggrin biggrin biggrin

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

OldGuy 71Acadian wrote:
Iwannagofast wrote:
A guy can't even take a p*ss beside his shop to mark his territory.
Fixed yer quote for ya.

Thanks Man.........'course it hasn't stopped me from marking the a**hole with the binocular's territory.

ajmopar · New Member

Well, I guess the '75 400 in my '48 pickup just became a '65 383. I am pretty sure the MOE guys wouldn't know where to look on a big block Mopar for serial numbers anyway, and if memory serves there's nothing to go by prior to '68 anyway.

What a rat's nest this thing is - we have somehow allowed a separate government agency to have the same power as a trained and sworn police force. How long until they carry guns to aid their enforcement of a set of rules that they interpret at will?

As for putting cats on a carbureted engine, anybody remember the 70's and 80's? Have your carb stick a float a few times or run it rich a bit and see how long the converters last. Blow a power valve on your Holley and kiss the converters good bye.

Gwillyville Kid · BRADFORD, ONT

My parents had a Shell Station on Hwy 4 In Lambeth, from 1971-1977 when all this emission stuff was introduced in Canada. I was started my apprenticeship there. I don't have the paper work from then. but, we need it now. There was a provision for NOT retro fitting vehicles that were NOT originally equipped with emission control devices. This was FEDERAL (read that Canadian) Regulation, not Provincial. We need to find that legislation, see if that area has been amended and follow upon that. As you know the tendency of Government is to Introduce new Legislation, rather than dig out older legislation, especially if it's back 40 years. That way they can have their names on the new legislation. Some of our cars might already be exempt.

By the way, we are still waiting for someone that has a "crate engine" to decode it and see what the stamped codes indicate as to what it was supposedly to be originally installed in. ESPECIALLY GMPP engines. Those are "replacement" engines.

DaveM · ONTARIO

ZZ454 crate engine.

Has no stamped numbers, letters, nothing on the front pad.

Block casting # 12550313. That id's it as a '91-'95 Gen5 454ci.

There is a tag epoxied to the block by the passenger side motor mount that has the GMPP part#, the engine serial #, and the build date of 07/15/06.

Engine was purchased in August '06.

Right in the GMPP catalogue: " Designed for pre 1976 street vehicles or any off-road vehicle" and, "some applications may not be emmission-legal; check state and local ordinaces."

Most GMPP crate engines are not sold as "replacement engines". Many of them where never available in GM vehicles. Therefore even if you wanted to comply, there is no specs to go by.

Jazz · THUNDER BAY, ONT

'The MOE are just trying to justify their jobs...with more provincial cutbacks we can see the emissions program go down the tubes as it costing the province big bucks. Too many civil servants sucking the life out of ontario taxpayers. Bad enough some years back the gov't started to make us pay for or plate renewal up here in the north and we only have one decrepit highway to travel as all the road tax dollars are spent in the banana belt

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Jazz wrote:
'The MOE are just trying to justify their jobs...with more provincial cutbacks we can see the emissions program go down the tubes as it costing the province big bucks. Too many civil servants sucking the life out of ontario taxpayers. Bad enough some years back the gov't started to make us pay for or plate renewal up here in the north and we only have one decrepit highway to travel as all the road tax dollars are spent in the banana belt

Jazz, you may "think" the $$ are spent down here but our roads are the "PITS" & all the money that Mc GOOFY collects from lic. re-newals, plates & driving test gas tax etc. all goes into general Revenue & is "PI$$ED" away on all the scandals, E-health, Ornge etc. Theres no money anywhere for roads & bridges. After just getting back from road trip to USA their roads are a dream compared to ours & they are working on them to keep them "up to date" & Rest Stops are clean, grass like a "golf course", lots of parking space & every 50 to 60 miles on Interstates & no stores selling 'crap" food & gas at OUTRAGOUS prices!!!