A few years ago I met a fellow at an Ancaster Swap meet. He said he had a letter from Ministry of Transportation regarding fenders on hot rods and tractors.
He claimed it stated fenders were NOT required due to some consideration of tractors operating on highways. If hot rods were forced to have fenders, tractors would be forced to run full fenders to operate on highways.
I did NOT get a chance to see letter, but would really like to read it and get a copy. Anybody hear of this, know anything about this or seen this letter?
If you are aware of what part of the legislation this refers to please reply. I prefer my T Bucket as a High Boy.
the Kid.
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In the words of Red Green "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together".
Section 66(3) of Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act (HTA) is quite clear on the subject of fenders – see below. The only exception is where the motor vehicle or trailer is unfinished and is going to a shop for completion. However, the success (or failure) of a rod owner getting away without fenders depends more on their attitude and the state of their karma on any given day than anything else! I know there are fenderless rods that have gone for years and many thousands of miles without problems, but that doesn’t mean they're legal, just that their owners are lucky and well behaved.
That letter from MTO sounds suspicious. I’m assuming that the term “tractor” in the letter refers to big rigs. They are required to have fenders or mudguards already, except when pulling a trailer where the trailer body provides the same level of protection from spray as a fender does. When the tractor is bobtailing (no trailer), fenders or mudguards are definitely required.
Mudguards
66 (3) Every motor vehicle and every trailer shall be equipped with mudguards or fenders or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle.
I don't know anything about this letter but I do understand that it is illegal for a rig/semi/18-wheeler to run without mudflaps anytime (rain/shine/dirt roads/pavement). Friend has a horse farm and just bought a rig to haul horses with, heard about the mud flap requirement directly from the trucking repair shop people. It is also my understanding that all trailers must have fenders (ALL trailers, not just the semi trailers).
I also remember a GTA based t-bucket owner (this goes back 20+ years ago) being ticketed for no fenders and being told he had to either run fenders or mudflaps ... he ended up making a set of removable mudflaps for the car (they weren't bothered by the lack of front brakes).
I'd be willing to bet that running without fenders on anything is not technically legal here in Ontario but also not something they generally bother people about unless you are roostertailing in the rain of course or causing trouble (burnouts etc). I drove through a safety blitz/spot check a couple of weeks ago on Hwy 9 between the 400 and 27 (Holland Marsh) ... my old car has fenders (and wipers, parking brake etc ... it is not a t-bucket) and they didn't pull me over but I'm not too sure I'd want to drive through one of those in a fenderless anything. My father in-law has a couple of Alice Chalmers tractors and brother in-law has one too ... they all have factory installed fenders on them.
Yrs. ago we got stopped for this in a 23 T-Bucket, beat it every time in court, as the act. says "to stop "splash from roadway" Judge asked officer if it was "raining" he'd say "NO" CASE DISSMISSED!!!!! HTA act hasn't changed it's wording from then,we also got "hit" for no frt. brakes, but act says "must have 2 separate brake systems to at least 2 wheels" we'd show the foot brake to rear wheels then pull on the Emm. brake, cop would get "pi$$ed' off that we were right then go looking for any "infraction" he could find!!! They also didn't like the "stock" wiper operation [hand driven crank] at top of W/shield BUT it was LEGAL!!!!!
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
"TRACTOR DOES MEAN BIG TRUCK,,I PULL TRAINS AND FREQUENTLY HAVE TO REMOVE MY TRACTORS REAR MUDFLAPS,,GOTTA MAKE SURE I HANG THEM BACK ON WHEN I AM NOT PULLLING A WAGON OR RISK FINES".
Not really understanding this quote stuff ... I think Time Traveller wrote this but then I just went back and took another look and it now appears that this quote may have come from "Jazz". If I am reading this correctly, it sounds like you remove your mudflaps when hauling a trailer and reinstall them when driving just the tractor. What's the reason behind removing them when hauling a trailer?
-- Edited by Pint and a Pound on Tuesday 25th of September 2012 06:15:29 PM
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If at first you don't succeed you do have options ... lower your standards or just plain quit are the two I usually choose from :)
I've been there and paid the fine - the sargeant was pissed that the cop had ticketed me but called the ministry and "Road spray" can be defined as dust. So rain or shine you're eligible for a fine. Hasn't stopped me though I think I've had as many open wheel cars as fendered cars.
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My wife wants me to see things from a woman's point of view, so now I spend a lot of time looking out the kitchen window
Section 66(3) of Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act (HTA) is quite clear on the subject of fenders – see below. The only exception is where the motor vehicle or trailer is unfinished and is going to a shop for completion. However, the success (or failure) of a rod owner getting away without fenders depends more on their attitude and the state of their karma on any given day than anything else! I know there are fenderless rods that have gone for years and many thousands of miles without problems, but that doesn’t mean they're legal, just that their owners are lucky and well behaved.
That letter from MTO sounds suspicious. I’m assuming that the term “tractor” in the letter refers to big rigs. They are required to have fenders or mudguards already, except when pulling a trailer where the trailer body provides the same level of protection from spray as a fender does. When the tractor is bobtailing (no trailer), fenders or mudguards are definitely required.
Mudguards
66 (3) Every motor vehicle and every trailer shall be equipped with mudguards or fenders or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle.
TRACTOR DOES MEAN BIG TRUCK,,I PULL TRAINS AND FREQUENTLY HAVE TO REMOVE MY TRACTORS REAR MUDFLAPS,,GOTTA MAKE SURE I HANG THEM BACK ON WHEN I AM NOT PULLLING A WAGON OR RISK FINES
-- Edited by TIME TRAVELLER on Wednesday 30th of May 2012 07:37:32 PM
Some "semi" trailers have the King Pin in a different spot & the trailer is too close to the tractor or the 5th wheel is too far forward on tractor & the 1st. corner your going to tear off the flaps on the "landing gear" [feet that go up & down to support the trailer when unhooked] when you get into the corner!!!! Hope this helps you understand????
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
My neighbour and I went to the same car show on the weekend,,him in his 34 fenderless roadster,me in my 41 K1. He was telling me it was a cold miserable ride to the event and at one point the high winds were blowing the rain sideways through his car along with the road spray..I agreed the weather was nasty,,,I had my wiper on as well as my cab heater. Fortunately for him he won a fleece jacket at the event,,,I suggested he could wrap it around his head as a melon warmer for the ride home ,,,you really need a flyers cap and goggles if you want to go fenderless IMO,,
-- Edited by Jazz on Wednesday 26th of September 2012 06:50:54 AM
Jazz, one trucker to another, see your still jamin gears, & I'm retired!! Don't miss it a bit,but do get the 'urge" when I see a nice long nose "Pete" on the hwy. Say to myself,"i'd like to drive that for 10mi. down the road, [just to keep in practise] then get out & walk away"
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
Easy solution when being pulled over for no fenders.....
Tell the officer you are on your way to a shop to have them installed to complete your car.....
Exception to HTA 66 (3)
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply to motor vehicles or trailers in an unfinished condition while proceeding to a works for completion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (4).
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"If you don't pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you"
yep, or move to Saskatewan where it states that the ARE NOT NEEDED when not raining.
Saskatchewan -T-18.1 - Traffic Safety Act - V-2.1 REG 10 VEHICLE EQUIPMENT, 1987 Fenders or mudflaps 52(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), the vehicle shall have, for each tire, a fender, mudflap or body overhang that: (a) reduces the rearward projection of gravel, mud, water and snow from the tire; (b) is located so that the lowest point of the fender, mudflap or body overhang is above the ground a distance that is not greater than two thirds of the horizontal distance from that point to the centre of the wheel; and (c) extends across the full width of the tire. (2) The requirements of subsection (1) apply to wheels on steering axles only when the wheels are in the straight ahead position. (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a modified vintage vehicle when the vehicle is being operated on a dry, paved surface.
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The trouble with quotes over the Internet, is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln
There is no doubt that Sask. has it's "ACT" together!! No "grey" areas just laid out plain & simple English!!! How could you NOT understand that reading??????
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
Easy solution when being pulled over for no fenders.....
Tell the officer you are on your way to a shop to have them installed to complete your car.....
Exception to HTA 66 (3)
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply to motor vehicles or trailers in an unfinished condition while proceeding to a works for completion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (4).
i think this would cover us all quite nicely then, are we truly ever finished building our rods? never!
yep, or move to Saskatewan where it states that the ARE NOT NEEDED when not raining.
Saskatchewan -T-18.1 - Traffic Safety Act - V-2.1 REG 10 VEHICLE EQUIPMENT, 1987 Fenders or mudflaps 52(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), the vehicle shall have, for each tire, a fender, mudflap or body overhang that: (a) reduces the rearward projection of gravel, mud, water and snow from the tire; (b) is located so that the lowest point of the fender, mudflap or body overhang is above the ground a distance that is not greater than two thirds of the horizontal distance from that point to the centre of the wheel; and (c) extends across the full width of the tire. (2) The requirements of subsection (1) apply to wheels on steering axles only when the wheels are in the straight ahead position. (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a modified vintage vehicle when the vehicle is being operated on a dry, paved surface.
actually moving to saskatchewan would enable us to get our hands on some genuine saskatchewan sealskin bindings!
I was at the Back Alley final show in Woodbridge yesterday and we had a couple guests show up by the name of Cam Wooley from CP24 and Sargent Dave Woodward from the OPP. They were there doing a live cast on safety and the 400HWY. When in pulled a couple of nice rat rods and parked right beside them. If any thing these two guests were having a great time talking to the different club members and just shooting the breeze in between live telecast. I guess they enjoy our hobby too. There was no mention of any potential infractions on any cars to my knowledge either by the OPP or other club members. I am sure some of our rides do not conform 100% to the letter of the law but from what I observed yesterday if you treat these guys with a little bit of respect it go's a long way. Just sayin
