Pulled this out of a 350+.060 we had bought for the sons car.Noticed one rocker arm not going "up and down" as much as the others.Pulled the lifter out and it looked like this 1st &2nd pic. I took the lifter to my SuperStock racer friend and he said "its a good thing it kept turning in the lifter bore." Went home and put the scope into the lifter bore and the cam lobe looked good,still had it's shape. New lifters and well Brad Penn lubed up,she ran really good,would spin 6500 rpm(3.73 gears) turbo 350.The 3rd&4th are the cam lobe. The new lifter wore it right down! 5th & 6th pic is replacement lifter.The last is the grind,a Crane circle track cam.Last time I saw this crappulance, LOL, was back in 1977,on the "Bench" doing the same job on a '73 Chevy crew cab. The hardening flame or electric coil missed this lobe!
-- Edited by NOVACLONE on Thursday 30th of August 2012 04:31:53 PM
-- Edited by NOVACLONE on Thursday 30th of August 2012 04:36:45 PM
-- Edited by NOVACLONE on Thursday 30th of August 2012 04:37:54 PM
-- Edited by NOVACLONE on Thursday 30th of August 2012 08:47:27 PM
-- Edited by NOVACLONE on Thursday 30th of August 2012 08:48:23 PM
I take this was a used motor?. How many miles or runs did it have on it. This has happened to many friends and myself. There is lots of info and ideas as to how this is being so prevalent now.
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gotta be young and dumb before you get old and wise
Yes,this was as used engine.Reminded me of 305 chevy cam failure seen back in the late 70's. Now the cars get Lucas or Comp Cams additive with every change
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Reality; A test of Mind and Spirit And BODY. (`-`)
Google "Bob is the Oil Guy" go to Oil 101. You will need a few minutes to read it. This guy runs a private lab that is hired by auto manufacturers, cam grinders, oil companies.and engine builders. Read the part about Chevy 305/350 cam failures. He tested many of those "soft" camshafts. All cams tested still passed the original "Rockwell Hardness Tests" even after the lobes were worn flat. He discusses the removal of zinc and phosphates from oil and the damage done.
Synthetic oil is NOT the problem, Multi grade oil is NOT the problem. Straight weight oil (#10 etc) still has high Z&P levels because it is for old non-emissions engines. "Used engines" are NOT the problem. Roller cams are NOT the ANSWER. Mineral/Dinosaur oil is NOT the answer. Mercruiser Marine REQUIRES you run Mercruiser Marine OIL in their engines, which are roller cam engines, if you want warranty on your Mercruiser engines. Small Block Chevys (305/350's) were the first engines to fail, in great numbers, from the reduced zinc and phosphates. Other makes began to fail as the zinc & phosphates continued to be reduced. Oil Additives that DO NOT state that it contains zinc & phosphates DO NOT. DO NOT ASSUME that your favourite additive has adequate protection. Ask! If can't get confirmation IN WRITING avoid that product.
Each cam manufacturer has a different perspective on how to prepare their camshaft for initial fire up and continuing lubrication. Ask your cam manufacturer what their products require. You can email every one.
Finding Oil with adequate zinc & phosphates is getting more and more difficult. Code SJ is the minimum requirement for flat tappet camshafts. It still requires zinc additive. Any RACING Oil that states "for off road or racing use only" should have adequate protection. That disclaimer is because MOST racers remove catalytic converters. Zinc will shorten the life of catalytic converters. There are producers of oil for flat tappet cams that have adequate levels of zinc and phosphates. Lubriplate claims their "105 motor assembly grease" has more than adequate protection for installation. Kleen-Flo TKO claims to have more than adequate protection. Lucas has a product for this problem. There are many more, GM EOS, Red Rocket etc.
It does NOT matter that your camshaft has not failed using "the same oil I have been using for 30 years". It has not failed YET! 30 years ago ALL oil had high levels of Zinc & Phosphates to prevent high contact point friction. Now the same oil has reduced Z&P levels to comply with government requirements to prevent premature catalytic converter failure. One more example of the government not concerned about the crap we must deal with while the politicians suck votes from the un-educated and from the "green people".
My 305 failed, I thought it was a "soft cam" engine. My 330 Olds failed and I wanted to know why. A friend's 429 failed a cam before they could back it out the door of the garage. It had been "Broken in" as per manufacturers instructions. The performance shop that built and installed that engine had no idea what happened. Cam manufacturer did replace cam and lifters. My buddy paid extra labour $$$.
cause of problem---WRONG OIL!
The oil produced for my 1998 Escort, when it was new, is NO LONGER available. The current SN or SO oils do not have adequate protection for my 1998 roller engine. By the way, If you simply send your engine for a rebuild and roller cam, you will still have to deal with reduced levels of Z&P in your $$$$ engine.
One last point. The "Friction Reducing" additives in the current oils are NOT Effective after 2500 miles/4000 kms. That makes a bad situation worse. What is the recommended oil change mileage for your engine? What do the manufacturers and government want? You to drive your car forever, or, you to purchase a new car every year and pay lot$a taxe$. That deal to get all your oil change money back when you reach a 300,000 miles, or whatever the mileage, is from an OIL COMPANY, NOT an auto manufacturer or government.
Them old 283/289/361 days are gone. You have been warned.
the Kid
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In the words of Red Green "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together".
Very Interesting I had the same problem ,lots of popping and one lifter not working the same as the rest.This was on a 77 Impalla 350 with under 50k miles.I thought that it was because it had sat for a long time .We changed the oil pump and filter and put in new oil before it was fired .It ran fine all season then just started popping.But after reading this it might explane a few problems .They are doing the same kind of propaganda with the new washing machines trying to sell special soaps to clean the washer when all you need to do is a full hot load every4 or 5 washes to clean out the system.I get a lot of servive calls because of cloged systems in the washers and there cold water washes. Ed
That cam is a common Crane Energizer series cam, they sell it in a kit with the cam and lifters......everyone can argue the oil factor all they want..... I worked for Performance Improvements, Karblet and a Race Engine shop then on to my own Biz, I bet i have sold 50 or 60 of that same cam ( back in 89-2000) and had probalbly 10 come back.....most of the time it was improper break in....however we did have a few that were broken in as per what crane recomended and still had issues( bad lifters)......the cams that failed after being run for a year or two usually ended up being a valve spring issue...the heros that owned the motors would pull the thing to 6500 ( even though the Crane says the cam peaks at 6200 when in reality if you put it on a dyno it actually makes peak power between 5200-5800rpm) they valves would float and once the spring loose some pressure chatter the lifters on the lobes......Also rule #1 if a lifter is wiped out never put a new set in....you can bet your ass that not matter what the cam lobe looks like it has been comprimised........and some people do not realize that all of that crap form the lifter has gone through the motor.....sure the filter is going to catch some of it, any time I have had this problem the motor comes out and pulled apart to double check.....As for the oil and this is out of my own experiance Kendall GT1 20w50 non-synthetic is what i use in any performance engine, form a mild little 355sbc to a 700 cube BBC, we found that after murdering a big inch engine with a 400+ shot of Nitrous ( in a Bottom 7 second car) the only oil that held up was the Kendall GT1, when we would pull the motor apart to freshin it or repair it the Kendall would actually cling to the engine components and not loose its viscosity where evey other oil was like water and would run off...just sayin....
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You dont like it?? Tough S$#t.... I didnt spend my money to make you happy....
interesting topic. i use rotella-t in everything. reason being when i drove truck many yrs ago r-t and ursala were the top brands to use. between business and personal i have approx 12 diesel engines running. lot of oil. i buy in bulk 500lt at a crack and service most of my trucks here at my shop. new trucks go to the dealer for awhile to service in case there are problems. they can't say its my fault doing them here. back to the oil, i have done some reading on it and a couple of the big forums i am on this is a common ?, what oil. with these older motors in todays world what i see is the diesel oil is less restricted, i hope. if i put 2000mi a year on any 1 car that would be a lot and i change the oil and filter every spring as they come out or if i go to the track its done the day after. yea i know it probably should be done in the fall as they go in but i have less enthusiasm then compared to when they come out. additives, there's a pile of them out there, it would be a personal choice. if any of them were truly replacing what they are taking out of the gas we wouldn't be able to buy them anyway. it's defeating the purpose.
the morrow of my story is, change your oil and filter a lot, filters being another personal choice and topic, make sure i use good fuel filters and don't be buying gas with a high ethanol content.
Think you will find that Shell has taken the Zinc out of the Rottella 15/40!! I used to use it in the 64 2+2 389!!! Now it's reg. oil 10w30 & Lucas Zinc additive, same for the 52 with SBC
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I can only please one person a day, Today is not your day!!Tomorrow doesn't look good either !!!!
5th & 6th pic is replacement lifter.The last is the grind,a Crane circle track cam.Last time I saw this crappulance, LOL, was back in 1977,on the "Bench" doing the same job on a '73 Chevy crew cab. The hardening flame or electric coil missed this lobe!
