I've been thinking about one of those cars in the "project" thread!! I called the gentleman & he is selling it for "unpaid storage" Hasn't heard from owner since 2002. When i transfered the ownership on the trailer yesterday, I asked the lady at Services Ontario [lic office] if this was a problem nowdays as I did it yrs ago with an affidavit!!  She said it's a can of worms now, Seller has to regisiter a "Lien" against the vehicle for unpaid storage, then send 3 notices by registered mail to last known addr. place adds. in local papers to him & the reg. owners last known addr. that vehicle will be "sold" for storage fees payment. Then he has to take all documentaion to office & get car into his name before it can be sold!!!& that involves an appraisel, & taxes paid on that + fees for transfer.  She said if you buy it with out the ownership it's up to you to trace down the owner then you have to do everything above & hope he doesn't claim the car as your "screwed" then!!as you can't put a lien on it because you weren't the person storing it.  It's covered in the storage & liens act of Ont. Anyone selling a vehicle with no ownership has to prove they have to right to sell it, if lost must get a new one, if not their vehicle must have all the notification letters sent out to owner as "above"& have it in their name.  She said "it;s best to just avoid these situations" & walk away nowdays" Can't just go to the Judge anymore!!!  Pete

As someone who was in the car business for 25+ years , I'd advise you to walk away from this one unless it is something unbelievably rare and worthwhile . The lady at the bureau seemed to give good advice but I would go to another bureau just to get a second opinion . With the disclosure laws that kicked in a couple of years ago , it may be a can of worms .

T

i would ask the guy who store the car if he has a copy of a written storage contract that says the car can be taken and sold for unpaid rent.if the guy the owner signed it .........he would have a hard time to claim the car unless he comes up with receipt that the rent was paid .........a legal contract paper i would say will protect you ....but getting it in your name may be another story ..........really i don t think the guy can sell it without problems other than for scrap or in parts...... since he s the one who wants to sell get him to supply you the buyers package

I guess in your situation where the car was acquired through unpaid storage fees and is still currently in the gov't computers, it is up to the person claiming ownership (the storage lot owner) to deal with all the paperwork before it is sold.

However, if the vehicle had been found in the bush for example, where it had been sitting for so many years that it is literally no longer "in the system", an afadavit is the way to go. You swear that you are the rightful and legal owner, the reason the car does not have an ownership (I also supplied a bill of sale from the hunt camp owner showing what I paid him for it), and the last area where you assume it was actually registered. I bought an old car out of the bush from the Bancroft area and that worked for me.

i think without a legal paper the guy can not sell the car the storage story could be a lie ........all he has to do if he want s it gone is call the cops and get a tow truck to yank it out

Pint and a Pound wrote:

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I guess in your situation where the car was acquired through unpaid storage fees and is still currently in the gov't computers, it is up to the person claiming ownership (the storage lot owner) to deal with all the paperwork before it is sold.

However, if the vehicle had been found in the bush for example, where it had been sitting for so many years that it is literally no longer "in the system", an afadavit is the way to go. You swear that you are the rightful and legal owner, the reason the car does not have an ownership (I also supplied a bill of sale from the hunt camp owner showing what I paid him for it), and the last area where you assume it was actually registered. I bought an old car out of the bush from the Bancroft area and that worked for me.

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 How long ago was this?? I know I did the same yrs ago 25 maybe on a 38 chevy I bought. But the lic office now says you have to show the 3 reg. letters or newspaper adds that you did make an effort to contact owner then it goes to JP to see if they will do it,could still say NO!!!!

"How long ago was this" ... that's a good question. I don't have the ownership handy to see when it was issued to me but it was probably no more than 10 years ago. I do remember having to get a '68 Karman Ghia appraised in order to transfer ownership (for a dune buggy project) and the Willys was before that. There (now that I think about it) is a very good chance the laws/regulations have changed since then.

I miss life when it was simpler

could buy this ownership and vin without the car

1967 & 1969 Pontiac Firebird Tags & Paperwork

That sale is for "Historical papers only" Collectors !...... any use other than "Collector" would be against the LAW!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhehehehehehehehehehehahahahahahahahahaahahhahahah roflmfao!

But....it sure would fit one of those brand new old style bodies being created without having to have current emissions......

just sayin..........

I bought a car a while back with no ownership. Had an accredited appraiser do a VIN verification certificate. Went into a service Ontario office and said all the right things, one of which was that the owner lost the ownership a long time ago. After about  30 minutes of talking and affitdavits ( done right in the SO office). A new ownership was created. The Vin Verification Certificate was $250.

My story with my large International Truck. Truck came from a Saskatchewan farm that was for-closed on. All valuable equiptment was floated back to ontario. Truck had no ownership and I had to call the Saskatchewan Motor Vehicle Department and get papers stating there where no liens (cost $35), but since truck was so old, it was not in their system anyways. Got an affidavit and paid taxes from bill of sale.

Baker wrote:

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Call the MTO and ask about a RIN

 

You will have to take a bunch of photos write up some story about how you found it or why there is no ownership and they will give to a new VIN number and owner ship for the car.

 

I looked into doing it with a 1953 Willys jeep (told them it was un my grandfathers barn and lost the owner ship)

 

its some what of a hassel because it is all snail mail. It was a year ago when I talked to them last

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 Doing this where there is an owner of the car floating around would amount to theft/fraud as soon as he calls the cops and they find the car registered to someone else.

-- Edited by 123pugsy on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 07:12:26 PM

Beachcat wrote:

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I bought a car a while back with no ownership. Had an accredited appraiser do a VIN verification certificate. Went into a service Ontario office and said all the right things, one of which was that the owner lost the ownership a long time ago. After about  30 minutes of talking and affitdavits ( done right in the SO office). A new ownership was created. The Vin Verification Certificate was $250.

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That $250 Vin certificate was not required 4 years ago when i registered my IHC only needed a scale ticket, bill of sale and $10 for an affadavit at that time.. That VIN fee is a big ripoff same as the YOM fee,,,some simple servant "inspects" your vin plate..after you show him WTF is.

Jazz wrote:

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Beachcat wrote:

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I bought a car a while back with no ownership. Had an accredited appraiser do a VIN verification certificate. Went into a service Ontario office and said all the right things, one of which was that the owner lost the ownership a long time ago. After about  30 minutes of talking and affitdavits ( done right in the SO office). A new ownership was created. The Vin Verification Certificate was $250.

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That $250 Vin certificate was not required 4 years ago when i registered my IHC only needed a scale ticket, bill of sale and $10 for an affadavit at that time.. That VIN fee is a big ripoff same as the YOM fee,,,some simple servant "inspects" your vin plate..after you show him WTF is.

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 The vin verification certificate was not issued by a civil servant. It was my independent appraiser who does all my cars. It was a small price to pay to make sure everything went well. I had no problem paying it because I had a purchaser waiting to pick up the car.

dualquadpete wrote:

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Roger, you must have known the owners name?? when you went in the office to supply then with that??? What happens if the original owner shows up a couple of yr.s down the road when "whoever" owns it, & claims it back!! not saying your in the wrong, many have done this, But I'd want my A$$ covered 6 ways to Sunday if I bought this Olds. & had it DONE & the owner shows up to say "thats my car,he had no right to sell it w/out doing this & that legally"!!!& heres the ownership with MY name on it!! Screwed!! The farmer that has this car, wasn't interested in doing anything other than "wants it out of his barn!!!!

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 I had the import documents from when it was imported into Canada with the owners name and address. But I did not show this to the SO office.

personnally i think the storage story is a lie.........sounds more to me like the farmer and the owner at one time were big friends and they must had a big argument and know just don t want to face each other or even talk ..........and the farmer only has to call the cops and say there s a vehicule on his propriety that is want s remove .......but if he does he ll end up facing the other and he doesn t want to see the owner at is place ......

I don't think he's shootin me a line!! Just lookin to get some of his unpaid storage back!!! Some of these YA Hoo's that leave a car in storage for yrs. & then show up wanting the car but don't want to pay for the storage, especially when it's a private deal!! That's why all these "Storage "TV shows are popping up.

i alway think that the folks with stuff in long term storage are usually in long term storage themself ie jail.

Welcome Super Bee......I would take a wild guest and say that the car got crushed as scrap metal......They can get away with that without ownership if they cut it to pieces before hand......but you never know.

I take it you never reported it stolen . problem is even if someone had it and was trying to get it registered the MTO and the police wont  disclose any of your information making it almost impossible   to track you down

-- Edited by slim on Sunday 16th of February 2014 02:49:20 PM

I'm sort of dealing with this issue right now although it pertains to a snowmobile I was given. I did not get an ownership and I did not get a bill of sale (there was no actual "sale" as the sled was given to me so no taxes owing). Due to a snowmobile being viewed as a "vehicle" and having a legitimate ownership, this scenario should be the same or very similar to an old car being purchased off a farm, where the ownership papers have been lost to history and the vehicle is no longer "in the system" due to its age and its having "fallen off the system" because of the many years that have passed since it was last registered.

Here's what happened with my situation.

I attended a Police precinct and asked them to "run" the VIN so I can do my "due diligence" in order to verify the vehicle has not been reported stolen before I proceed with attempting to obtain an ownership. On a side note ... not all Police branches are the same ... Durham Regional Police flat out (and NOT politely) refused my request, York Regional Police were extremely polite and more than happy to take the TWO MINUTES it took to "run" the VIN. The VIN came back as "not found", meaning it has not been reported stolen.

On to step two ... I attended a Service Ontario licence branch and explained my situation ... verified not stolen, no bill of sale due to it being given to me, no ownership papers. They were more than happy to explain what I need to do in order to get an ownership. They said I needed to write an affadavit, handed me a paper that explains exactly what an affadavit is for and what is required to be included in it, said I needed it to be notorized and that she herself, being a Municpal Clerk (I think was the term) can notorize it, since I don't have a bill of sale I need to explain exactly how I obtained it, where I got it from and who I got it from, and I also need to take the sled to a snowmobile dealership and, specifically on the dealership letterhead, have them list the year, make, model, colour, engine, VIN etc ... everything needed on an ownership. BTW, she ran the VIN and it was not in her system, obviously due to the length of time that had passed since it was last registered or that it may not

At that point I am to return to the Service Ontario office with the affadavit, and the dealership letterhead, she will notorize it and forward it to the Ministry. The Ministry will verify that everything they require (in the specific wording) is included in my affadavit and either accept it or refuse it. If accepted, I get an ownership. If I left something out of the affadavit, I write another one and try again.

I want to be clear ... you do not need a lawyer to create an affadavit, you do it yourself using the guidelines given on the paper Service Ontario supplied me.

Here's where it ended for me ... since the sled is ancient and I have no plans to run it anywhere but on private property and the fact that the dealership wants $50 to scribble a few notes on their letterhead, I am not going to pursue getting an ownership ... due to the age of the sled and its limited value, my getting an ownership is (in my opinion) pointless and a waste of my time and money (time spent creating an affadavit, time/fuel trailering it to and from a dealership so I can spend $50 getting the dealership letterhead, the cost of them printing out an ownership and possibly a charge for the act of having it notorized).

I will attempt to scan and post a copy of the Affadavit Requirements for Vehicle Registration paper.

Hopefully this info will help someone dealing with an old vehicle that is not stolen and no longer in the Service Ontario database.

There was a guy selling Ownerships and maybe Vins...at a swap meet....Does anyone have his contact info?.....for display purposes I believe he was selling them for

Knuckles

I ran into a problem on my winter beater that had never happened to me before. I had a proper ownership for the 02 Jimmie and bill of sale , mileage and all the stuff I usually forget . Of to the SO office and I get declined, reason . Bill of sale and ownership different names. The guy I bought it off never registered it into his name, so even though I had bill of sale where he bought it and when I bought it ,they wouldn't register it because the guy I bought it from hadn't paid taxes when he bought it. They said I needed to go find the last owners and have everybody pay up there taxes. Bad thing was there was over a year since all this started. Both previous owners had moved and I was unable to contact them ,as if they would have done anything anyway. Long and short was I had to wright a letter explaining the circumstances and get it noterised by the clerk. First time this happened to me over tax issues, fortunately it worked out after a lot of running around but I learned to look at the paperwork a little closer. Ed

I thought that there are rules for wrecking yards, that says they must account for all ownerships. Selling an ownership for reuse on another vehicle is illegal.....just sayin'