Drive Clean Modernization

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

Drive Clean fun

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

mike, lot of guys having to replace the co2 sensor. y/n-maybe

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

You said "all over Ont." ??? did they change the boundaries??? or was this just a slip??? I haven't heard of the change to all Ont. but seeing as this new test is all electronic I wouldn't be surprized to see it go that way. More gouging from the Prov. Fiberals.

Someone · BOWMANVILLE, ONT

I heard first hand that the test is also set up for California emissions standards too and that alot of vehicles are failing right now because of the cold weather. This setup needs to go away, the sooner the better!

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

they want a pic of the dash, vin and plate because the current way to fake an e test is to pull a car that will pass on the dyno and enter a the vin number of the car that wont pass.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

fatstax wrote:
they want a pic of the dash, vin and plate because the current way to fake an e test is to pull a car that will pass on the dyno and enter a the vin number of the car that wont pass.

smile ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what fatstax said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and at the most reputable shops too

Just had our 2000 Sunflower done. The odometer does not work,something in the instrument cluster is bad. I thought I was @#$%ed! They were "OnLine"live with the AIR COPS ,took a pic of the dash,Vin & rear plate. Entered an 01 for km's and and wait for it PASS smile No dyno-done in 15 min or less. $39.95

SKAR · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Just 2 speed idle?

This still worries me.

spinner43 · NEW DUNDEE, ONT

I just did our 2000 Focus. They took the pictures, plugged on the OBD2 port and idled the engine for 2 minutes. He told me that the only cars he had fail the new test had the check engine light on, all others passed.

workin class · FINCH, ONT

So if you need your car to get to work and it wont pass. Your off to the welfare office.Good news for the low income people out there.

-- Edited by workin class on Saturday 26th of January 2013 08:35:27 PM

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

Just changed out a knock sensor on a friends 5.3 Silverado today. He waited till yesterday(his birthday)to get tested and failed for MIL on. He then erased the codes and retested. As mentioned in a previous post, he still failed because the system needs to re-adjust certain peramiters. Long story short, he had to get a trip permit because there are no more conditional passes. Moral of the story, don't wait till the last miute to test, because you might be plenty pissed. No Pass=No Sticker Renewal. hmm confuse bleh

Canadian Poncho · PEI

The picture of the dash had to be done with the key on to prove the check engine light works. I work at a Chrysler dealer in service and we've seen more cars fail this month than in the last two years with the old system. Most fails are because the battery has been dead or disconnected and the monitors aren't "ready". You are only allowed one monitor to be "not ready". Pre OBDII cars get the 2 speed idle test. One used car lot owner said all he has been doing is driving cars with a scan tool attached trying to get the monitors ready. He had a great point: He's wasting all kinds of fuel and creating excess tailpipe emissions driving these cars around trying to get the monitors ready. It really is a stupid system.

workin class · FINCH, ONT

I do believe its a way of Liberal social engineering. Not sure what or why but I just dont trust the logic of forcing people to buy a newer car or go without. Especially in today's economic rough times for the young and low income workers. The well paid will be fine they just buy a new car but the classes are going to get wider. I know quite a few people still working for less than $20.00 an hour paying high rent high hydro high taxes and going backwards if there older cars get yanked that will be the last straw.

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Agree with ya Workin Class!

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

furious There will be the "Haves" evileye disbelief and the "Have NOT" cry

That has to change.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

NOVACLONE wrote:
There will be the "Haves" and the "Have NOT"

That has to change.

Yeah, but how ??

DaveM · ONTARIO

Implosion.

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

I think, that more than ever, we need to write our MPP's and the Drive Clean Minister, to express our views. One of the biggest complaints now, as in the past, is the lack of information given to the public. People are showing up for testing, thinking that conditionals are still available, only to find out, that they're **** outta luck and now can't get a renewal sticker. Seems as though, they like making rules behind closed doors and then pounce on the public to scam them out of their hard earned money. More and more, our goverment proves, that their main concern does not lie in trying to have clean air, but to rob the very citizens that pay their crazy wages. bleh confuse hmm

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

Sorry I never meant for this thread to be an exercise in annoying people or miss information. Just tried to give some people something fun to do for their drive clean test. There is still conditional passes available, you just need to meet the requirements. Of course the biggest problem with the whole situation is lack of information from the government. Most information is on the driveclean website.

Gwillyville Kid · BRADFORD, ONT

Yesterday's Toronto Star Wheels Section has a good article on "Drive Clean has outlived it's usefulness". I believe we all agree. In that Article it states that British Columbia has ended their Drive Clean program. When Ontario contacted B.C. & California regarding creating a Drive Clean Program both jurisdictions advised against such a program because Ontario would spend far more than they could imagine and not see nearly the results they expected. Both facts reported by Ontario Government.
The sticker on the rear of EVERY car going to be inspected needs to say "End Drive Clean, End the Wa$te. Find the "Wheels" and forward it to your MPP.

As has been discussed MANY times on this site "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Get busy!
I will buy 5 of those stickers when they are available.

the Kid

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Friend of mine took his 2004 Gm truck in for D/clean. service engine light came on on way to test. He stuck his Obd II scanner in & cancelled light in dealer parking lot!! guess what ,FAIL as the emm. test caught it that it had been "tampered with!!!

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

Drive Clean Modernization

Drive Clean plays an important role in safeguarding Ontario’s air quality by identifying excessively polluting cars and trucks with emissions problems and requiring them to be repaired. While today’s vehicles are cleaner through advances in emissions technology, all vehicles require regular maintenance to keep them operating properly.

Over the past decade, Drive Clean has tightened emissions standards and focused the program on the vehicles that are most likely to pollute. On January 1, 2013, Ontario introduced changes to the emissions test to make the Drive Clean program even better. The new test takes advantage of the computerized monitoring equipment in today’s technologically advanced vehicles.

The modernized Drive Clean program will provide significant benefits by:

Providing a faster, more accurate emissions test;
Identifying vehicles with emissions systems failures before they become gross polluters
Identifying emissions systems problems for more effective repairs;
Reducing more smog-causing pollutants from vehicle emissions; and
Minimizing fraud.

Computerized Emissions Testing Equipment

On-board diagnostic (OBD) testing is a computer-based emissions test that interacts with the manufacturer-installed computer that continuously monitors a vehicle’s emission components. When a vehicle’s OBD system detects an emissions related malfunction, a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is stored in the on-board computer. The presence of a DTC indicates there is something wrong with the vehicle’s emissions control system and it needs to be repaired. The Drive Clean test equipment connects to the OBD computer and retrieves diagnostic information as part of the vehicle emissions inspection.

On-board diagnostic computers became standard in Canadian light-duty vehicles in 1998. Drive Clean will continue to use a tailpipe test for light-duty vehicles from 1988 to 1997 model years to ensure that grossly polluting older vehicles are identified and repaired. Heavier light-duty SUVs or pickup trucks (3,856 – 4,500 kg) of model years 1988 to 2006 will also receive a tailpipe test as they are not equipped with OBD technology.

The test for heavy-duty vehicles has not changed, but an advisory OBD test has been introduced for newer vehicles built with this technology. This will provide owners with helpful information about the health of their vehicle.

Understanding Readiness

The OBD system has monitors that check the performance of various emissions-related components and systems while you drive. Some of the monitors will only check components or the system at the point when certain driving conditions are met. Usually, a combination of local and highway driving will turn on all monitors.

A monitor is considered “Ready” when it successfully completes a check. If a monitor has not or cannot complete its check it will report “Not Ready”. Monitors that have completed their checks typically stay “Ready” and do not become “Not Ready” on their own.

The new OBD test for Drive Clean will allow two monitors to be “Not Ready” if the vehicle model year is 1998 to 2000; and one monitor to be “Not Ready” if the vehicle model year is 2001 or newer. If more than the allowed monitors are “Not Ready”, the vehicle will not pass the OBD emissions test.

Reason for being “Not Ready”

A monitor being “Not Ready” does not necessarily mean that there is a problem with the vehicle’s emissions system. A monitor may not be “Ready” in the following situations:

If a vehicle has recently been serviced where the battery was required to be disconnected.
If a vehicle's battery has recently been replaced.
If the battery has been drained i.e., leaving the headlights on.
If, after repairs, the vehicle has not been driven under the conditions to run all monitors.

Addressing Readiness

If a vehicle cannot pass the test because it is “Not Ready”, it will need to be driven under various conditions (drive cycles), to allow the OBD computer to fully check the emissions systems. A few days of combined city and highway driving will normally allow the OBD monitors to run and become “Ready”.

Most vehicles with no emissions control system problems can become “Ready” within minutes of normal driving. Vehicles with emissions control system issues will take longer to become “Ready”. Talk to your Drive Clean facility staff about the best way to get your vehicle “Ready”.

Once “Ready”, there may be an emissions problem that will cause the vehicle to fail the Drive Clean emissions test. A vehicle with an emissions control system problem may be difficult or impossible to get “Ready” and could require repairs to get “Ready”.

Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL)

When an emissions problem is detected on an OBD equipped vehicle, an instrument panel warning light called a Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) turns on to alert the driver. The purpose of the MIL is to warn the driver of an emissions related problem that needs to be repaired. A vehicle with a MIL on has an emissions control system problem and will need to be repaired before it can successfully pass a Drive Clean retest.

On some vehicles, the MIL will appear as a yellow engine symbol, CHECK ENGINE or SERVICE ENGINE SOON alert. Most vehicles use the following symbols:

Engine Lights

During normal operation, the MIL will turn on for a few seconds when the engine is first started and turn off when the engine is running. If the MIL remains on, the OBD system has detected an emissions control system problem. The OBD system will automatically turn off the MIL if it no longer detects a problem.

atomsplitter · NEWCASTLE, ONT

So my CEL, that's been on for a year, finally went out after jump starting it at Hemi's place!
1) Does that mean the car fixed its self?
2) Does that mean it gave up on me fixing it?
3) Did the bulb burn out?
4) Suggestions?

DaveM, how much do I owe you for those magical electrons...

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Maybe it's because you used my 48 volt charger? LOL

SKAR · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

My cars cel is there but no longer used, doesnt come on with the key turned on. Photoshop a picture with it on and take a picture of that?

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

Atomsplitter wrote:
So my CEL, that's been on for a year, finally went out after jump starting it at Hemi's place!
1) Does that mean the car fixed its self?
2) Does that mean it gave up on me fixing it?
3) Did the bulb burn out?
4) Suggestions?

DaveM, how much do I owe you for those magical electrons...

Dead battery = erased computer memory. Don't worry, odds are the light will come back on.

DaveM · ONTARIO

Nope.. the mighty turbo ECOTEC knocked some sense into it. biggrin

Battery must have been dead enough to reset the PCM fault storage.

Did you ever have the code read?

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

Check engine light on or not, don't matter . Your dash still gets photographed. Still goes through the etest.

DaveM · ONTARIO

A non working check engine light will set a code. If the bulb is burned out, removed, or the wiring is cut/unplugged it will show up on the scan.

atomsplitter · NEWCASTLE, ONT

Yes I got the code read and it said"
"Time to buy another Buick"......it must be some kind of subliminal message!

SKAR · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

My car isn't obd2 (megasquirt), no dash cel.

Probably going to have to do a e test tune and make a test pipe with 2 new cats in it.

Will it pass, probably not.

OldGuy 71Acadian · ONTARIO

Pint and a Pound wrote:
Is that the truth? No more conditional passes?

Sorry Pint. hmm I was misinformed by my friend, who was too hot under the collar to think straight. Another guy who does etesting, told me that the repair limit for a conditional is still in effect and is capped at $450. Also, all new cars, up to 7 years old, do not require a test. The post by Carl has alot more info.

DaveM · ONTARIO

SKAR wrote:
My car isn't obd2 (megasquirt), no dash cel.

Probably going to have to do a e test tune and make a test pipe with 2 new cats in it.

Will it pass, probably not.

Your tunable with the Megasquirt, you should be able to get it to pass. Are you running a wideband O2?

I have a standalone wideband, Innovate LM1, If you want to do some test/tune on your A/F ratio. (Works on carbed cars too guy's).

No Megasquirt experience, but I have lots of Holley C950 tuning experience.

I got a 383 smallblock, with a 248/252dur .600lift cam to pass '88 Monte SS numbers with flying colors, with the Holley Commander 950 with full time wideband. I just kept pulling fuel and adding timing to get it to idle and 2500 cruise at 15.1:1 afr. It has metal core cats on it. Car run's 11.9's 113.

Not sure what the lack of a check engine light will mean to the new rules. OBD1 may not matter. No self diagnostics.

Got any unused outputs on your Megasquirt? Can fudge a key on check engine light pretty easy. I'll do that to the Monte this spring.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

Gwillyville Kid wrote:
Yesterday's Toronto Star Wheels Section has a good article on "Drive Clean has outlived it's usefulness". I believe we all agree. In that Article it states that British Columbia has ended their Drive Clean program. When Ontario contacted B.C. & California regarding creating a Drive Clean Program both jurisdictions advised against such a program because Ontario would spend far more than they could imagine and not see nearly the results they expected. Both facts reported by Ontario Government.
The sticker on the rear of EVERY car going to be inspected needs to say "End Drive Clean, End the Wa$te. Find the "Wheels" and forward it to your MPP.

As has been discussed MANY times on this site "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Get busy!
I will buy 5 of those stickers when they are available.

the Kid

smile I will buy 20 smile

SKAR · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Last time I tried nox was still too high.

No biggie anyways.

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

SKAR wrote:
Last time I tried nox was still too high.

No biggie anyways.

2 speed idle tests don't test for NOx. You only get them under load.

SKAR · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Interesting

I heard that all pre obd2 were being tested with the same limits?

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

SKAR wrote:
Interesting

I heard that all pre obd2 were being tested with the same limits?

I don't think so. I don't do 2 speed idle tests at my shop so I can't say how different they are than the old system. Hot rods are all tested to 1980 emission standards. 2 speed idle.

Gwillyville Kid · BRADFORD, ONT

There is a movement afoot to Scrap Drive Clean. here is the link.

http://www.scrapdriveclean.ca/take-action/

Click the PDF for your copy of the petition and start collecting signatures.

I am sure EVERYONE signed last year's petition, the one that was ready for presentation when McGuinty shut down the Government to avoid facing reality.

Let's get behind this. There is no maybe, this really affects us.

the Kid

-- Edited by poncho62 on Saturday 13th of April 2013 01:17:45 PM

Someone · BOWMANVILLE, ONT

Gwillyville Kid wrote:
There is a movement afoot to Scrap Drive Clean. here is the link.

http://www.scrapdriveclean.ca/take-action/

Click the PDF for your copy of the petition and start collecting signatures.

I am sure EVERYONE signed last year's petition, the one that was ready for presentation when McGuinty shut down the Government to avoid facing reality.

Let's get behind this. There is no maybe, this really affects us.

the Kid

This topic has been brought up on here, i just did a 'bump' on the original topic.

As for last years old car petition it is not dead because of what Dalton did, it is still alive and well. It has been worked on during the Governments shutdown and supposedly was just introduced a little while ago. I wanted to stop into John O'Tooles office yeasterday after work but there was a protest going on so i drove by. I will stop in one day next week to check up on it and see how it's going.

BARRIE, ONTARIO

you can drop your nox readings by putting 2 can of gas line anti freeze in the tank and cut your timing spec in half . ie calls for 10 deg pull it back to 5 deg an retest . It will drop the nox a lot ..77.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

77 that doesn't work anymore they don't "sniff' the t/pipe, all done by OBDII port under dash!! Doesn'r matter whats coming out the pipe as long as computor says it's working A OK

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Latest news is the Faggot Wynne mcDinky is in trouble and is dropping like A limp dick in the polls..Remember the ConservativeS are going to drop the Drive clean ..We need to keep the heat on and if they come knocking on your door make sure we hold their feet to fire and get them to state their position more vocaly on this position..My Mpp is a sitting Consrvative and has stated to me in writing they are going to cancel the drive clean if elected MY MPP HAS BEEN A HARD WORKER FOR MOST OF OUR CAUSES....Lets make sure they state that on their plan when we throw out the stinkin liberals ..lets try to remember just what they have done to us over the last several years..It's really time for a serious grass roots engagement to stand up and be counted, they need to know ..we are fed up with all the bull $hit, we are mad as hell and we are not gonna take it anymore ..a good part of our summer cruzing should include being politicaly active about the drive clean issue , and the MOE hassels, and being screwed over and over on taxes..remember you are going to be paying for the gas plant fiasco for the next 20 years on your hydro bill and then you will br taxed on the tax on that as well..remember the college of trades forced tax on us ..for nothing just another tax for McFukheads cronnies..The winds of change are blowing now is the time to keep lots of pressure up bumper stickers or decals should be on every rodders vehicle..and we should have pettions to be signed at every meet and we we really should try to have at least one big rod protest some time during the election...I am excited about us having this opportunity to have our say and make a difference..I would be willing to be a speaker at any rally or debate/confrontation with any political party..time to put our case out there.. IT'S TIME WE BECAME A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP..AND EXERCISED OUR POWER ..WE HAVE IT WE JUST NEED TO USE IT..TI'S TIME..........

LEST WE FORGOT.....FEEL FREE TO ADD YOURS THAT I MAY HAVE MISSED..

PLEASE READ, PASS ON AND REMEMBER NEXT ELECTION. THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT:
Here is what our Premier has done for Ontario in the past seven years. AND NOW HIS FAGGOT HAND PICKED REPLACEMENT IS GOING TO CARRY THE TORCH AND BELEIVES SHE IS INVINCEABLE BECAUSE WE ARE SO APATHECIC LETS STAND UP AND SHOW THEM WE HAVE ENOUGH............................Remember...he had a no tax increase election message/campaign.

Errors & Omissions Excepted
1. He has increased all the licensing fees from your car to your boat including fishing and hunting.

2. He introduced the health care premium (not called a tax) and some couples pay as much as $1,500.00 a year.

3. He has put an ECO tax on many containers such as paint cans and window washer fluid and most people still don't realize it until they see the bill - he kept that one real quiet.

4. He put a disposal tax on all electronics.

5. He put the disposal tax back on tires. THIS HAS JUST RECENTLY BEEN TRIPLED.......

6. And now he has passed the HST tax - the largest tax on the province ever and the only other tax in Ontario that ever came close to this in the past was the health care premium. He passed this bill even though 76% of the people in Ontario were against it. This HST will provide the Province with an additional THREE BILLION dollars a year.

7. Soon, July 15th, we will all have our S.M.A.R.T. Meters on which we will have to pay perpetual rent and will end up doing our laundry in the middle of the night. We are also going to pay big time for air conditioning from now on because when we need it the most it will be in the prime time of usage. THEY HAVE ALSO JUST ADDED ABOUT $4.00 A MONTH TO YOUR BILL TO READ AND MAINTAIN THESE !!!!!!

8. Let us not forget the E-health scandal with 1.2 billion dollars wasted and paid out to friends and relatives.
What was Mr. McGuinty’ s answer to this? Well, if the people of Ontario don't like it, they can show it in the next election. Nice attitude.But let's remember as that day approaches.
This after he fired the CEO and then gave her a severance package of $300,000 - not bad for only being on the job for seven months.

9. And what about the SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS windmill power plant contract that he awarded to KOREA ? One would think there was some place in Canada or North America that could have built these..

10. He also closed the emergency rooms in Port Colburne and Fort Erie because there is not enough money. There have been two deaths since then because by the time they got to St. Catharine's it was too late. But he then awards a hospital in Toronto three million dollars. Of course, that was in the riding where there just happens to be a by-election to replace George Smitherman!

11. He has taken the richest most prosperous province in Canada down to one of the 'Have-Nots'.And, over the past six & one half years, has increased the budget deficit from $5.6 Billion dollars to TWENTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS

12. And don't forget his nice little salary increase of $40,000.00 a year - millions of people in the province don't earn even half of that..

13. Have we forgotten all the MPP'S who also got a 14% increase? And now that they've had their increases he comes out with a new budget to freeze all provincial employees wages for two years. A bit late don't you think?

14. He increased the hydro tax by 10% in April of 2010.

15. He has increased the tax on liquor and wine by 10% in May of 2010.

16. He continues to permanently 'Blight' landscapes across the province with unsightly wind turbines.

17. But, Mr. McGuinty will retire with his nice comfortable pension and all his benefits paid.

18. No, or minimal, indexing for WSIB recipients.

19 NOW THEY ADDED THE COLLEGE OF TRADES TAX TO ALL TRADESMEN..DOUBLED OUR LICENSE FEES..and

20 NOW.. they have ADDED a 1 billion dollar debt to our hydro bill to be paid back over the next 20 years by us so my fukhead could save 2 liberal seats..is your A$$ sore yet..just wait..

21 Every one of big solar panels you see all over the country and all big ugly wind generators yep we are paying for all them too ..

I hope this gets passed around the province of Ontario and everybody remembers the way we got screwed by Mr. McGuinty and the Liberal party.

Remember - not one Liberal MPP had enough guts to vote against any of the above.

Wake up Ontario ...!

And all pensioners got no raise at all over the past 18 months! and you wont see anytine soon they just gave that away to the teachers and they are going to giving another pile to the lcbo banidts..time to privatize that business as well..

I will be sending a copy of my post to my MPP Randy Pettipiece for Perth wellington..

-- Edited by fatchuk on Thursday 25th of April 2013 08:48:48 AM

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Copy of a letter I sent to my MPP...start squeezing..

From: Chuck Armstrong [mailto:andmotpr@quadro.net]
Sent: April-25-13 10:55 AM
To: Randy Pettapiece MPP Perth Wellington (randy.pettapiececo@pc.ola.org)
Subject: Good news in the polls..lets keep the pressure on Dalton in a skirt..

I am 100% in support of a Conservative Governnment .. But we need Mr Hudac to do his part ..he needs to be a leader, look like a leader, Talk like a leader, put his platform out there and stick to it no waffling or looking like he is weak..He needs to be able to defend it so get it right…we need to go after the liberals with guns blazing..we need to know he going to cancel/drop that stupid drive clean and do some thing about the College of trades tax to my trade.. and back off on all this green **** with these solar panels and windmills it is going to bankrupt this province..we have no more tax money to give..it’s time to sell off the LCBO and privatize ..this is just a rope around our neck has to go..and time to get tough with firefighters,teachers,police and other public sector workers that are sucking us dry we need to have a look line by line at spending and get rid of the blood suckers that are sucking us down..it’s time be leaders..enough is enough ..I don’t have any more tax money to give ….we have been cut and bled to death for taxes in this province…enough is enough ..If you want my support I want to see some serious solid government who has the required balls to make the hard decisions to cut taxes and spending especially spending, spending, spending, spending, spending, spending, spending, spending, we need Mr Hudac get a firm platform and budget and to stand up and look like a leader with confidence, should be easy against ..this wimpy whiny lying McGwyne MqQuinty government…the future for a Conservative government is NOW-HERE we need to seize this moment in time people are fed up and tired of lying politicians and spend spend spend …so lets get-er-done…and for Gods sake enough with all the lying bull****..say what your gonna do and do it..we the people are bone tired of lying bull****ting government…So the ball is your yard..what are you going to do with it……????????

Thank-you

Chuck Armstrong

-- Edited by fatchuk on Thursday 25th of April 2013 11:53:00 AM

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Agree with you 100% but the real problem is with the NDP If they don't quit supporting the FIBERALS & the DYKE by trying to squeeze some consession's out of them then there will be NO ELECTION!!!! They are the ones that have to be addressed into calling the election, HOO DORK can't do it by himself [no enough seats] & I hope he will not BEND over & cave in if PC's get elected!! Every one of them makes promises then change their tune when the get in power!!!!I really don't think he's leader material!!! Pete

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

Anyone see the DYKE on the news at lunch time spouting off a 100Million in infastructure money to Rural & Northern Ontario for roads, bridges & water plants!! She [it] hesitated on when this would take place & just said "if all goes well in the next week" They know their on thin ice & trying to "buy" RURAL Ont. voters!! Then back out later with no money available!!!!

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

When the going gets tough, the BS really flies!!

v8deuce · OAKVILLE, ONT

Give 'em hell Chuck!!! Do you want a job? I'd vote for you!!!!

Randy

v8deuce · OAKVILLE, ONT

Give 'em hell Chuck!!! Do you want a job? I'd vote for you!!!!

Randy

Ragtop · BELLE RIVER, ONT

Chuk, I like the way you think! I couldn't believe the people of Ontario re-elected Mc Quity last election. I also the like the "special Interest group" idea. How can we possibly get all automotive enthusiasts involved in something like this? If you could count every sports car lover, Corvette people, Hot Rods, trucks, race car fans etc. we'd have a considerable number of votes! If anyone wants to take this on I'd volunteer whatever time I have available!

Ragtop · BELLE RIVER, ONT

OH! I just heard a rumour that their thinking about making every truck in Ontario a commercial vehicle the same as one tons, duallys, dump trucks and semi tractors. This means a safety check and an e test every year! Don't know if it's true but that would sure piss off a bunch of people.