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Post Info TOPIC: Dpf removal a no no


OAKVILLE, ONT

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Dpf removal a no no
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http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/01/epa-says-dont-touch-paticulate-filter.html

Those guys with the black smoke will be watched closly now that manufacurers of the perfomace chip got their hands slapped.

  Randy



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ONTARIO

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WOW !! Good info !!

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ANCASTER, ONT

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Good story Randy, cheers!

Could have horrible implications for the future :(

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VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

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I could never understand the 6" stack blowing coal on any main street in Ontatrio. I live in the north and we see guys all the time with their trucks in low gear pulling 2500 rpm or better with the turbos whining and the smoke bellowing. I ask myself why? But on the other hand I guess I am no different with loud pipes and flame throwers....lol

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ELORA, ONT

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Modfather wrote:

I could never understand the 6" stack blowing coal on any main street in Ontatrio. I live in the north and we see guys all the time with their trucks in low gear pulling 2500 rpm or better with the turbos whining and the smoke bellowing. I ask myself why? But on the other hand I guess I am no different with loud pipes and flame throwers....lol


I'm totally with you on this one. IMO, that's the most idiotic thing ever (not to mention putting stacks on a truck to begin with). I'm all for RESPONSIBLE automotive/motorsports interests. I took my son to the truck & tractor pulls once and he was disgusted with black huge black cloud that hung over the entire fairground and enveloping the bleachers. He wanted to leave early. In this day and age, we all know better to be doing such stupid s**t. Sometimes it takes kids to remind us. I'm proud of my kid 



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ELORA, ONT

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v8deuce wrote:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/01/epa-says-dont-touch-paticulate-filter.html

Those guys with the black smoke will be watched closly now that manufacurers of the perfomace chip got their hands slapped.

  Randy


And so they should...no need for such stupidity anyhow. Should be law that diesel trucks only be licenced to contractors and businesses that can prove they need trucks in this weight class for day to day operations. These are the gross polluters, not our daily drivers yet WE pay for it by having to Etest our clean burning vehicles 



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ELORA, ONT

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RacerRick wrote:

Diesels are cleaner than gas motors, except for the particulate carbon that comes out. If you are blowing coal, you are way over fueling and just wasting fuel. A good running diesel is pretty clean, and you might see a little soot when you really get on it.


Can you expand on this? I'm not understanding how anything with a visible particulate or pure carbon can be considered cleaner than a gas motor? Of course, were talking a "clean", emmisions passing gas engine here. Gas and diesel engines are not apples for apples of course, but lets try to level the comparason. Both emit carbon dioxide - One emits particulate. I dont see how on earth gas engines are worse?



-- Edited by Gearhead on Friday 1st of February 2013 04:51:22 PM

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CLINTON, ONT

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I'm developing 2 new gadgets  

One will direct all stereo volume directly to the brain of the driver (via wireless head piece)  lol     

and one that will direct the Stacks into the cab  

still working on the seal to sliding rear window!  lol 



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NORTH BAY, ONT

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SMOKE?????????????????

Has anyone here ever been up to the heavy truck pulls, (tractor trailers pulling full loads of lumber ) in Notre Dame Du nord Que?

Never been there, but i saw pics of it, Bunch of complete mindless bunch!!

You haven't seen smoke till you have seen that!!

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TORONTO, ONT

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Diesels are cleaner than gas motors, except for the particulate carbon that comes out. If you are blowing coal, you are way over fueling and just wasting fuel. A good running diesel is pretty clean, and you might see a little soot when you really get on it.

I would be driving a diesel if I could find a small one that would fit in my driveway. I might just get around to that 4bt swap into the Jeep pickup one of these days.

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BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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I'd guess that 90% of vehicles in Europe are Diesel & they seem to have the problem "licked" over there of pollution!! The trucking Ind.here is having problems with down time on new "rigs" with these new pollution controls that seem to be breaking down regulary & repair outlets can't fix them nor get the parts from manufacturer's & is costing them a fortune in "down time" Most are saying if they knew it was going to this bad for fuel milage & breakdowns they would have kept their "PRE Emm." older trucks & got the better fuel mi. & less headaches than with the "NEW GREENER POS" they have now!!!

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BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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All I know is that the european diesels are way ahead of us in North America, & run cleaner than our gas engines do !!!!

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ELORA, ONT

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dualquadpete wrote:

All I know is that the european diesels are way ahead of us in North America, & run cleaner than our gas engines do !!!!


So do their industrial emmisions 



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NORTH BAY, ONT

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Just heard this week during our cold snap, that the new school buses are having lots of problems in the cold weather. New kind of engine that is supposed to run cleaner, must be what DualQuad Pete is refering to.

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QUESNEL, BC

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sasquatch wrote:

SMOKE?????????????????

Has anyone here ever been up to the heavy truck pulls, (tractor trailers pulling full loads of lumber ) in Notre Dame Du nord Que?

Never been there, but i saw pics of it, Bunch of complete mindless bunch!!

You haven't seen smoke till you have seen that!!


o.k. so if these diesel truck owners went to a drag strip and seen all the white smoke from the racers cars wouldn,t they also say '' complete mindless bunch''... ?



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PORT HOPE, ONT

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We all have our insanity,burnouts for instance.Fun as hell and stupid at the same time. Ed

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NORTH BAY, ONT

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Agreed 30sx !!

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NEW DUNDEE, ONT

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That is right 30sx. We all have our releases. I have not been to Notre Dame du Nord myself but got a truck ready to go play,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veFnpDEJE2w The trucks you are seeing with all the smoke billowing out of them are the extreme, around 2500hp highly modified just for racing. As far as calling them "mindless", Sasquatch you are getting carried away. Everyone I know that has been there can't wait to go again for the whole town is shut down and is one big party. I have been working on trucks my whole life and the diesel engines that are in trucks now are far superior to the past models. The engines themselves are much more reliable, quieter, cleaner and efficient than we have ever seen. Dualquadpete has a point that some older engines gave better fuel mileage but only marginal. Best I have seen was 12.5 Canadian out of a '04 emissions C13 CAT but every 6 months it needed a new $2200 turbo. With the properly speced truck and a good driver you can easily maintain 9.5 to 10 mpg Canadian with the new engines. The biggest downfall is the after-treatment, DPF and SCR but we have to start being responsible some time and the government pushed the industry to be responsible now. These systems have been on the road for 5 years now and the problems have been ironed out mostly. Those complaining of going broke because their truck is always down and nobody can fix them should sell and drive a company truck. The day of the one truck owner/operator is becoming history.

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NORTH BAY, ONT

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Found a video of the truck rodeo.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7Hls486ms

The part that amazeses me is the driveline , like "U" joints etc.


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ONTARIO

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flatblack55delivery wrote:

Seems like everyone says that they are environmentally friendly untill it costs them any money(desposal fees),impacts there hobby(MOE), life style or comes to there backyard(Windmills).I hate the restrictions as well and have some NIMBY tendencys,but I also like to breath and want my grandkids to be healthy so what do you do.Just because the government wasts money on stupid programmes does that mean everyone should say"screw it I'll do what I like".There has to be a transition We all know our life style can't go on the way it is but we can't be forced to change overnight either,thats just not fair.It will take a far smarter mind than mine to figure this out,and we are fresh out of DaVinchies at this point.I guess the old saying is still true "just do one thing to help" if everyone did that it might be enough.Maybe there should be a points system like the big poluters have ,you know how they get points for this so they don't have to fix that.Maybe there should be a points system for us as well ,like airmiles only environment points .If we pay a disposal fee we get points ,If we dispose of a fridge properly we get points ,if we get caught without an EGR valve we loose points .It seems to work for the big guys ,why not us.


 If the money taken in went to the proper programs, I would not have an issue with it. The problem is that these fees (taxes) get wasted at an alarming rate. Another issue is that even if we here in North America were able to come up with zero polution, our environment would still be screwed because the rest of the world is not following suit. It's like telling me I can't piss in the shallow end, while 10 people are taking a dump in the deep end.



 



-- Edited by hemi43 on Saturday 2nd of February 2013 01:51:59 PM

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BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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Spinner43, I got that info from Truck News & the people complaining were huge trucking Magnets ie "Challenger, Bisson,Schiender" not your one truck "little guy" Also Co.drivers are becoming a thing of the past. Muir cartage just let go all their Co. drivers & going O/O to stay 'competetive' they say??? Truck news says that it seems to be the "latest" addition of the diesels that are really havin problems 2011 emm. complyant!! The 07 & up ones, they have got them working good now [EGR models]They are hoping to be able to "tap' into computer & get a signal that will be able to warn them of "impending" failure & not leave the truck at the side of the road being towed to a shop without all the necessary equip.& skilled mech. to diagnose the engine!!! Parts are still a problem. Pete

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INGERSOLL, ONT

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Removing DPF is one thing, the guys belching black smoke is another. At the track (pull, drag, whatever) is one thing but bellowing black smoke (know carcinogen) down the 401 is not required.
I know a few truck drivers (class eight) that have removed the dpf. They're reporting a 3-5% increase in fuel mileage. On a highway tractor, that is huge. To look at it you'd never know it was defeated and they still pass driveclean. Both the dpf and egr have been a pain. I've had good luck with mine (so far) but I have heard a lot of horror stories. When it applies to large trucks I'm torn on the issue. I like the idea of environmental responsibility but forcing decreased fuel mileage and increased downtime on an already struggling industry I am not a fan of.

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PORT HOPE, ONT

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Seems like everyone says that they are environmentally friendly untill it costs them any money(desposal fees),impacts there hobby(MOE), life style or comes to there backyard(Windmills).I hate the restrictions as well and have some NIMBY tendencys,but I also like to breath and want my grandkids to be healthy so what do you do.Just because the government wasts money on stupid programmes does that mean everyone should say"screw it I'll do what I like".There has to be a transition We all know our life style can't go on the way it is but we can't be forced to change overnight either,thats just not fair.It will take a far smarter mind than mine to figure this out,and we are fresh out of DaVinchies at this point.I guess the old saying is still true "just do one thing to help" if everyone did that it might be enough.Maybe there should be a points system like the big poluters have ,you know how they get points for this so they don't have to fix that.Maybe there should be a points system for us as well ,like airmiles only environment points .If we pay a disposal fee we get points ,If we dispose of a fridge properly we get points ,if we get caught without an EGR valve we loose points .It seems to work for the big guys ,why not us.

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PORT HOPE, ONT

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I can't go along with that, if what you are saying is, don't do anything till someone else does.Thats the way it is in China a whole bunch of people who don't give a rats ass,and now they all have to where masks.I would rather go down fighting than say" they don't care so why should I" .Because of people careing the rivers in the states no longer catch fire,and the newer cars are clean enough that there is talk of the drive clean programme being scrapped because it has acheved its goals.So every little thing we do matters.Its like quitting smoking ,you may not feel a whole lot better right away but at least your not making the problem any worse. Ed



-- Edited by flatblack55delivery on Saturday 2nd of February 2013 06:11:38 PM

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PEI

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It's too bad the new trucks lose about 350km of range with DPF. Regeneration takes a lot of fuel.


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NEW DUNDEE, ONT

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Hey dualquadpete, Muirs sold off their cross border freight last year and this may be a way to raise some capital by switching to O/Os. As far as the big companies having dependability problems with the new engines, it is the after treatment and the lack of talented staff to fix them on the road. It is nothing to pull into a dealer in Salt Lake and be on the waiting list for 3 days to hit the shop. I have been away from the highway fleet for a year now but still talk to the guys from the fleets you mentioned and others around Ontario. Those fleets say they are buying this year and sales are up for new trucks, they all have the new engines in them. California is slowly raising the model year of the commercial trucks allowed and slowly other states will too. flatblack55delivery is right, at what time do we become responsible? Why not start with the commercial vehicles since they are the biggest consumers and the cost is spread over a larger base. As far as tampering with the ECM programming to get by the after treatment the government mandated that the systems will default to derate if an emissions code comes up. We tried running water instead of DEF when testing for Cummins and the tank sensor senses viscosity as well. It didn't work.

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MARIONVILLE, ONT

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When catalytic converters were released in the 70's, everyone panicked and complained about how they strangled the engine. Modern converters now barely even take 1hp out of the equation. It'll be the same with the DPF filters. Give it time, they'll get better.

It's not the end of the world...but it could be.

 

Oh, I have to mention that it's 100% cake to recode the ECU for DPF removal, no CEL and no evidence of tampering.  Just have to work WITH the technology instead of complaining about it ;).



-- Edited by Broke4speed on Wednesday 6th of February 2013 01:47:04 PM

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TORONTO, ONT

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Here is a listing of what the particulate matter is out of a diesel. Diesels actually have a much cleaner burn than gasoline motors in general. However, a poorly maintained, or overfueled diesel gets dirty fast.

The particulates from a diesel are The types and quantities of nanoparticles can vary according to operating temperatures and pressures, presence of an open flame, fundamental fuel type and fuel mixture, and even atmospheric mixtures. As such, the resulting types of nanoparticles from different engine technologies and even different fuels are not necessarily comparable. In general, the usage of biodiesel and biodiesel blends results in decreased pollution.[citation needed] One study has shown that the volatile component of 95% of diesel nanoparticles is unburned lubricating oil.[10] Long term effects still need to be further clarified, as well as the effects on susceptible groups of people with cardiopulmonary diseases.

Diesel engines can produce black soot (or more specifically diesel particulate matter) from their exhaust. The black smoke consists of carbon compounds that were not combusted, because of local low temperatures where the fuel is not fully atomized. These local low temperatures occur at the cylinder walls, and at the outside of large droplets of fuel. At these areas where it is relatively cold, the mixture is rich (contrary to the overall mixture which is lean). The rich mixture has less air to burn and some of the fuel turns into a carbon deposit. Modern car engines use a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to capture carbon particles and then intermittently burn them using extra fuel injected directly into the filter. This prevents carbon buildup at the expense of wasting a small quantity of fuel.

The full load limit of a diesel engine in normal service is defined by the "black smoke limit", beyond which point the fuel cannot be completely combusted. As the "black smoke limit" is still considerably lean of stoichiometric, it is possible to obtain more power by exceeding it, but the resultant inefficient combustion means that the extra power comes at the price of reduced combustion efficiency, high fuel consumption and dense clouds of smoke. This is only done in specialized applications (such as tractor pulling competitions) where these disadvantages are of little concern.

When starting from cold, the engine's combustion efficiency is reduced because the cold engine block draws heat out of the cylinder in the compression stroke. The result is that fuel is not combusted fully, resulting in blue and white smoke and lower power outputs until the engine has warmed. This is especially the case with indirect injection engines, which are less thermally efficient. With electronic injection, the timing and length of the injection sequence can be altered to compensate for this. Older engines with mechanical injection can have mechanical and hydraulic governor control to alter the timing, and multi-phase electrically controlled glow plugs, that stay on for a period after start-up to ensure clean combustion—the plugs are automatically switched to a lower power to prevent their burning out.



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