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Post Info TOPIC: Tig welder


WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Tig welder
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Looking to buy a fairly new tig welder in the 200 amp range + or -.

Has to have AC and foot control, high freek and pulse would be nice. Something like a Lincolin Electric Tig Welding / Precision Tig 225 or similar.

 

Thanks



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ELORA, ONT

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Used 220v machines command a high price. Look into Everlast in Burlington if you want a loaded AC machine for a fraction of the cost - it's offshore but supposedly has Siemens guts in them;
The 250EX is likely going to be my next machine - New Millers are retardedly priced
http://www.everlastwelders.ca/tig-welders/powertig-250ex.php

I'd also look into what Thermal Arc has for AC TIG's - I heard they were coming out with an all new machine. 

 






-- Edited by poncho62 on Saturday 16th of February 2013 06:36:31 PM

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ONTARIO

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I will double check, but most welders that are hooked up to 575v are capable of running 220v by jumpers on the transformer.

Edit;

I searched for the user's manual for my machine, (Hobart Tigwave 250) and it will run on  200/230/460/575 volts depending on how the jumpers are set.

I did a search for a Miller Syncrowave and it was the same. I did a search for the Lincoln Precision Tig 225, and there are separate machines for high and low voltages.

The new Lincoln is an inverter machine which may be the reason, but I'm not sure. Maybe DaveM will post what voltages his machine will run on.



-- Edited by hemi43 on Saturday 16th of February 2013 06:45:41 PM

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ONTARIO

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Alot of the older hydro sucking industrial transformer machines are still single phase, and can be run on 220v if they have the tap provision on the transformer. Just because someone lists it as 575v, or it has a heavy duty 575v rated plug on it,  does not mean that it is only 575v or 3 phase. you have to look at the rated input voltage of the particular machine.  Your looking for 208/230/460/575V for voltage, and you will see 1/60 which is single phase, 60 cycle. As long as you see 230v, single phase, 60hz ,  should be good.

My Precision Tig is rated 208/220V, and is delivered with the 220v plug attatched. There is a seperate version of it for 460/575v.  The Precision Tig is not an inverter machine.

 

 



-- Edited by DaveM on Saturday 16th of February 2013 07:31:47 PM

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ONTARIO

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Any TIG welder in the 200 amp range will be 220volt !! Stick with Miller or Lincoln because they are the standard out there. You get what you pay for when it comes to welders !! Actually, that applies to anything !!
I have an older Hobart TigWave 250, and when it dies I will be buying a Lincoln Precision Tig 225. It's an excellent machine and I have had excellent luck with other Lincoln machines I've owned in the past.
This will be the last machine you will ever buy, so why not just buy a new one? I've seen used ones sell at Auction for about $1700, but it's used, and who knows how much it's been used and abused!

You may get lucky like DaveM and find one that's fairly new, but it will be a difficult find. IMO, keep away from no-name welders because It's nice to be able to go to your local welding supplier and buy consumables that are on the shelf.
If you plan on doing any aluminum other than thin sheets, the 225 amp is the lowest I would go. Even my machine rated at 250 has difficulty welding thicker aluminum without pre-heating.

My 5cents !! If I put my 2cents in it would rounded down to zero !!biggrinbiggrin



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ELORA, ONT

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hemi43 wrote:

Any TIG welder in the 200 amp range will be 220volt !! Stick with Miller or Lincoln because they are the standard out there. You get what you pay for when it comes to welders !! Actually, that applies to anything !!
I have an older Hobart TigWave 250, and when it dies I will be buying a Lincoln Precision Tig 225. It's an excellent machine and I have had excellent luck with other Lincoln machines I've owned in the past.
This will be the last machine you will ever buy, so why not just buy a new one? I've seen used ones sell at Auction for about $1700, but it's used, and who knows how much it's been used and abused!

You may get lucky like DaveM and find one that's fairly new, but it will be a difficult find. IMO, keep away from no-name welders because It's nice to be able to go to your local welding supplier and buy consumables that are on the shelf.
If you plan on doing any aluminum other than thin sheets, the 225 amp is the lowest I would go. Even my machine rated at 250 has difficulty welding thicker aluminum without pre-heating.

My 5cents !! If I put my 2cents in it would rounded down to zero !!biggrinbiggrin


 Hemi, I was refering to used 220v machines being scarce is because the majority of AC Tigs out there are 575v. The 220's are sought after and pricy. I would I look at new over used myself because as you mentioned they can be run hard. I missed out on a deal of a lifetime on a 220v 250a synchrowave C/w cooler for $1k out of a cwb testing facility. The thing was virtually new. Missed it by 1/2 hour...



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ELORA, ONT

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Yes almost all modern machines are now multi voltage. The majority of the used machines that i see that have 200+ amps and AC capabilities are the old, hydro sucking transformer machines. If buying new, voltage is no issue

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ELORA, ONT

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If you consider a new inverter machine, look into these. I'm hearing good things about them.

http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html

or look into Thermal Arc - another solid product priced better than Miller & Lincoln.

http://store.cyberweld.com/tharc186tigw.html?gclid=CJ_gkf3hvbUCFcZFMgodgRUAUQ#pdItemDataTabs

Again, nothing against Miller or Lincoln. I own both as well as a Thermal Arc unit. When buying for my company, its usually Miller. The only reason I bought what I have is because I found well priced used machines. If my only alternative was to buy new (for play) It would only be HTP, Thermal Arc or Everlast for the dollars and sense of it




-- Edited by Gearhead on Sunday 17th of February 2013 11:42:05 AM

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ONTARIO

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Not with aluminum !! The problem with welding aluminum is that it needs lots of heat (current) to form a molten puddle on the surface, especially if you're welding off of a corner. Aluminum soaks heat up like a sponge unlike steel. Pre heating will help greatly, but you will still be limited by the size of your machine.

example;

If you wanted to weld a 3"long  bead in the middle of a 12X12x2" piece of steel, you will have no problem !! You could actually pick up the piece of steel afterwards with your bare hands and it would still feel cold.

Take the same example as above, except the material is aluminum. As you're trying to form your puddle to start your bead, the aluminum will soak the heat faster than you can put it in. You could be there all day, and you will never form that puddle.

You have to be realistic about what you want to weld !! Will you ever have to weld a piece of aluminum thicker than 3/8 thick? Probably not !! The only time I get into thicker aluminum is when I fix a casting, but most the castings that hobbiests will ever have to weld are thin anyway. So no problem !!

If it was me, the 185 amp machine would be the absolute smallest machine I would want. The 225 is a better choice IMO.

Like I mentioned before, this will be the last TIG you will ever buy, so for the difference of let say $1000, It's really a no brainer.


If you give us an idea of what you plan on welding, then it will be easier for us to figure out what you need.

It's too bad you live so far away, because I could show you on my machine the limitations you would run into by buying too small of a unit.

Dan


 


 


 


 



 



-- Edited by hemi43 on Sunday 17th of February 2013 02:51:25 PM

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ONTARIO

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Gearhead wrote:

Yes almost all modern machines are now multi voltage. The majority of the used machines that i see that have 200+ amps and AC capabilities are the old, hydro sucking transformer machines. If buying new, voltage is no issue


 Hmmm !! Hydro sucking?  I don't think the newer machines are anymore efficient. Other than the resistance of the transformer windings in the older machines(which is minimal) I really don't see any difference as far as opperating costs.

IMO, the smaller size of the inverter machines is the only advantage of them . An older transformer machine will last much longer than the electronics loaded new ones.

It seems like the real heavy duty machines being sold today are still the transformer types, so that's gotta tell you something right there. Infact, welders are probably one of the few items that are almost 100% efficient. The energy you put in, is almost the same amount you get out.



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ELORA, ONT

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hemi43 wrote:
 

 Unless he has a set of torches !!biggrinbiggrin

Yes, but that is a royal PITA if you plan on doing any serious amount of welding. 

 My 250 amp machine has a 60 amp circuit feeding it, and on heavy aluminum I can trip the breaker without too much effort.

As I mentioned before, a 250A machine draws upwards of 75-100 amps of power. Some guys only have 100 amps of service to begin with. Welding while the wifey runst the drier or stove can trip the whole darn panel!


 



-- Edited by Gearhead on Sunday 17th of February 2013 06:46:30 PM

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ELORA, ONT

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Hydro sucking = Transformer type. I don't have a Miller book handy, but I think a 220v, 250Amp machine (transformer) will draw nearly 100amps balls to the wall vs about 35-40 amps for an inverter machine. The drawback is that an inverter machine might cost nearly double if you compare between lincoln or miller machines.
The company I mentioned earlier has inverter machines at a 1/3 the cost of a Miller. $4k for a Miller inverter is absurd in my books (For a hobby machine) and it has an extra 50 amps over it to boot

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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going to look at a lincoln precision tig 185 tomorrow.



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ELORA, ONT

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Beachcat wrote:

going to look at a lincoln precision tig 185 tomorrow.


 whats the thickest material you want to weld?

185 amps on alum might be light at the top end depending on what you are doing. Generally speaking, you will be limited to 3/16" thick.

1/8" thick materials will be no problem



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ONTARIO

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Gearhead wrote:
Beachcat wrote:

going to look at a lincoln precision tig 185 tomorrow.


 whats the thickest material you want to weld?

185 amps on alum might be light at the top end depending on what you are doing. Generally speaking, you will be limited to 3/16" thick.

1/8" thick materials will be no problem


 Unless he has a set of torches !!biggrinbiggrin I think a precision tig 185, for home use will be perfect IMO. It will do 99% of what he needs (I assume). Another issue to think about, is that if you get into the big machines you will need a pretty heavy feed line to it. My 250 amp machine has a 60 amp circuit feeding it, and on heavy aluminum I can trip the breaker without too much effort.



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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hemi43 wrote:
Generally speaking, you will be limited to 3/16" thick.

1/8" thick materials will be no problem


 Correct me if I'm wrong but you mean in a single pass right?  Could I not weld thicker with multiple passes? I'm not really getting the connection between thickness and amperage. Unless the thicker material is a bigger heat sink and therefore needs more amps to melt the pool .confuse And if that's the case, would pre-heating help?



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Thanks guys! I won't be welding anything thicker than 1/8" or at least rarely. I do have my mig also.  And I'm looking at used because I have too much other stuff to spend money on. If I can get a decent one at 1/2 the price of new and NO TAX!! I'm in. Maybe it's false economy but at least it's doable.



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ELORA, ONT

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Beachcat wrote:

Thanks guys! I won't be welding anything thicker than 1/8" or at least rarely. I do have my mig also.  And I'm looking at used because I have too much other stuff to spend money on. If I can get a decent one at 1/2 the price of new and NO TAX!! I'm in. Maybe it's false economy but at least it's doable.


 I forgot you had the spoolgun. In that case, you are all set - a 185amp machine is plenty.

A rule of thumb I like is having 25% more power than required in vehicles and equipment. No need puting something to the wall every time. I use a foot pedal and control and like a hot start for pre-heat and tacking. (floor the pedal and idle back when I run the bead)



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BARRIE, ONTARIO

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I have a Lincoln 185 and it's great BUT hemi43 is absolutely right, it's not big enough for welding thick aluminum. I tried to do some welding on aluminum cylinder heads and it was a struggle. By the time you got the area hot enough to weld the machine would get hot and kick out. A little bigger machine would have been nice.
It is a nice machine though and it's great for 99% of the welding I do.

One other thing I should add is I'm not the worlds best welder, especially tig welding aluminum but I recently got a 225 MIG welder with a spool gun and I'm finding it much easier to use for most of the aluminum welding I'm doing. It's also way quicker. I find that by making little circles when I weld I can get a pretty good looking result, not quite as nice as a tig weld but pretty good. Of course a "real" welder can make a beautiful looking tig weld but mine aren't very nice looking so it's not hard to make a better looking mig weld.

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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nothing like the stacked dime look!



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ONTARIO

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One thing I forgot to mention is try to get a machine with a pulse control option. My machine does not have it, and I wish it did. I think it's pretty well standard with new machines today, but 10-15 years ago it was an option.

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Yes I think the 185 has pulse.

 

Thanks for all your advice guys!



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ONTARIO

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thumbsup.gif  Nice machine. Get practicing.



-- Edited by DaveM on Monday 18th of February 2013 01:53:43 PM

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ONTARIO

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Tig welder
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Beachcat wrote:

Where is the best place to buy welding rods?


 Any welder supplier will have it. Praxair, Linde, air liquide etc..

Here's what you should have a bit of each  on hand IMHO !!smile

For steel and Chromoly tubing;

.062 ER-70-S2

.093 ER-70-S2

For welding 6061 Aluminum;

.062 5356

.093 5356

For welding cast or 3003;

.062 4043

.093 4043

For welding disimillar metals or stainless;

.062 308L

Again, this is just my recommendation !! Also you will need some tungsten. I use 2% thoriated (red) for 95% of my welding, but the purists will claim that only pure tungsten (green) should be used for aluminum. My favorite is 3/32 dia, but once in a while I will go down to 1/16.

If you want, I can show you how I converted a dremel tool to be used as a tungsten sharpener.

.



 


 



-- Edited by hemi43 on Monday 18th of February 2013 07:44:12 PM

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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RE: WTB Tig welder
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Well, I bought it!

 

Just getting my wife to wash the awesome cover it came with. 



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ELORA, ONT

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lets see a photo - how much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?

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ONTARIO

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Beachcat wrote:

Well, I bought it!

 

Just getting my wife to wash the awesome cover it came with. 


 Sweet !! If you have any questions, we'll be glad to help if we can. smilesmile



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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I paid $1000. I'm pretty happy with that figure. It looks in real good shape and I was given a demo of it in action. I will take a pic when I get it off the truck tomorrow. Too freekin cold today.



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Where is the best place to buy welding rods?



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ADMINISTRATOR

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Cool....I am moving this thread to the tech section....Lots of good info in it

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ELORA, ONT

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Beachcat wrote:

Where is the best place to buy welding rods?


 Your local welding supplier is best especially if you need to purchase by weight (small amounts) - if you dont have one and rely on shipping, try Acklands Grainger or one of the online suppliers like Weldmart, cyberweld etc...



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ELORA, ONT

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If you are just getting started on TIG, you will be contaminating a lot of tungs. Try sharpening the whole box of tungs which saves you lots of tips to the grinder. NEVER sharpen tungsten by holding it on an upward angle to the wheel. ALWAYS sharpen down. Tungsten is brittle like glass and can break while grinding - the last thing you want is a broken shard going through your fingers

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ELORA, ONT

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Beachcat wrote:

I have a bottle for my mig. I was thinking of rigging up a "Y" so I could feed either one. Was thinking of getting a helium bottle too,


 Are you using straight argon for your MIG? Dont use a mixed MIG gas for TIG. You are going  to go through a lot of argon with a TIG. I suggest going med to large cyl. Some independent welding gas suppliers have a "lease for life" program where you pay once and thats it. Its a straight exchange, so you dont have to wait for a refill/pressure test.

 

Awesome looking machine - I'd say it was a real deal at that price!



-- Edited by Gearhead on Tuesday 19th of February 2013 06:48:46 PM

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Gearhead wrote:

If you are just getting started on TIG, you will be contaminating a lot of tungs. Try sharpening the whole box of tungs which saves you lots of tips to the grinder. NEVER sharpen tungsten by holding it on an upward angle to the wheel. ALWAYS sharpen down. Tungsten is brittle like glass and can break while grinding - the last thing you want is a broken shard going through your fingers


 thanks. i've seen a couple of videos showing it being done pointed up and thought it looked dangerous.

 

here's a couple of pics of the unit.

 

 

welder.jpgwelder2.jpg



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ONTARIO

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Cool!! It's bigger than I thought !! (insert joke here)
I thought the 185 was an inverter machine, but this looks like a transformer type, which IMO is better. Good score !! Now you just have to figure out if you'll be renting or buying the bottle of argon.

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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I have a bottle for my mig. I was thinking of rigging up a "Y" so I could feed either one. Was thinking of getting a helium bottle too,



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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hemi43 wrote:
Beachcat wrote:

Where is the best place to buy welding rods?



If you want, I can show you how I converted a dremel tool to be used as a tungsten sharpener.

.



 


 

I would like to see that.



 



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ONTARIO

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Beachcat wrote:


 

I would like to see that.



 OK !! Give me a day or so to take some pics and figure out what part numbers I used.

With the Tig you kinda have to lease the larger bottles because the smaller ones that you can own will cost way too much in the long run. I ended up leasing the largest I could get, because the price per cubic foot of argon for it was about 1/3 of the little bottles.

BTW, what is the helium for ?? I've heard of heli-arc, but always thought that you needed an air tight cabinet for that type of welding. Interesting !!



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ELORA, ONT

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hemi43 wrote:
Beachcat wrote:


 

I would like to see that.



 OK !! Give me a day or so to take some pics and figure out what part numbers I used.

With the Tig you kinda have to lease the larger bottles because the smaller ones that you can own will cost way too much in the long run. I ended up leasing the largest I could get, because the price per cubic foot of argon for it was about 1/3 of the little bottles.

BTW, what is the helium for ?? I've heard of heli-arc, but always thought that you needed an air tight cabinet for that type of welding. Interesting !!


 Argon/Helium mix is also for MIG and TIG - hotter weld pool and penetration. It also has a wider HAZ which can be undesirable depending on your project



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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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I heard that an argon/helium mix is the cat's meow for tigging aluminum. So I thought I would try it.

 

Plus I want to breath some in and talk like a munchkin. ashamed



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TORONTO, ONT

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I am jealous of that lincoln. I have an old Airco scratch start tig. I understand its actually an Miller thunderbolt inside. Certainly looks like one on the outside.

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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This device came with my welder. I realize it takes the place of the foot pedal as a hand operation amperage control. Other than when just fusing without a rod, when would this device be helpful?

 

amptrol.jpg



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ONTARIO

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They are handy when your foot can't be used, like crawling upside down into car to weld the roll cage or something.

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WASAGA BEACH, ONT

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Of course! I can see why you get the big bucks. biggrin

 

Can't see myself ever using that. But who knows. Is it worth anything for trade? I would like to get a nice swivel head torch. My torch has seen better days.



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Beachcat wrote:

Of course! I can see why you get the big bucks. biggrin

 

Can't see myself ever using that. But who knows. Is it worth anything for trade? I would like to get a nice swivel head torch. My torch has seen better days.


 

Not sure who's getting the big bucks, but it sure ain't me  !!no 

Don't get rid of it !! One day you will need it. If you need a new torch, and you plan on doing aluminum, then invest in a water cooler and water cooled torch. Trust me, you won't regret the investment.



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ELORA, ONT

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Agreed with Dan, keep the finger remote!! Foot pedals are great when you are sitting, but try and use one while standing up and you will realize right away.

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