The MOE and ME

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

The MOE and ME

33 fuel · ORANGEVILLE. ONT

Go with the early block

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

Thats my plan for the Acadian;rebuild the '66 casting 194 block and then they can " blow air up each others A$$!" lol

69SS454 · MILTON, ONT

Keep sending the email until you get a response. They want you to give up so they can keep their secret.

Ragtop · BELLE RIVER, ONT

Just like the MOT. They always manage to come up with some BS reason to ticket you. Typical of the crap we get from this Liberal government and it's agencies.

Ratmotor · PARRY SOUND, ONT

My big block is out of a boat. They may have a hard time finding emission specs for that....

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

It was said here on another thread about the MOE that they peruse this site on a regular basis.
Are they trolling ,looking for potential violators so that they can punish them?
If that is the case it's almost foolish to talk about any thing we do to our vehicles.

atomsplitter · NEWCASTLE, ONT

Don't give in to BIG BROTHER just because he might be watching!

johnod · SOUTHERN ONTARIO

My guess is they'll just ticket you when they feel like, and let you try to prove engine age , build date etc, if you take it to court.

I doubt they are going to crawl into engine compartments looking for numbers on the back of the block.

They might get dirty.

Just MHO.

Torquewar · DORCHESTER, ONT

evileye The question of the day...arent there bigger fish to fry. I thought the reason for MOE was to look for gross polluters,trucks etc.
This is just plain bull and for the institution not even have a playbook just waters down the department.
I was getting exhaust fixed on my sons car this week and a guy ive known for a long time told me a story that happened to him couple months ago.
He was driving his very clean 83 Chevy pick-up when he saw a car activate its lightbar and do a very unsafe 180 through a busy intersection. He thought he would give the guy the safe route and pull off to the side. Well he was coming after him and pulled up behind him .
The guy asks him about the truck and to pop the hood. He does and says he works at a shop and the truck is dead stock. Guy does the proffesional 10sec look and says ,nice truck and goodbye.
So i guess this is to what extent they go to ,pulling a Stunt driving exercise to chase you down.
This by the way happened in East London,so these guys are not just in the GTA.
I know this topic has been beaten to death but i had to share this story,just rubbed me the wrong way.
Guess i will play the game and do some emmisions installs in the next couple weeks...rant over.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Iv allways been into bikes so this hole thing is notthing new . been playing this game since the early 80s. Also have been pulled into the safty lanes with the 57 in hamilton without any problems. Its like anything else some of these guys are snot nose punks and some of them know what the hell they are looking at . I was lucky enough to draw one who knew his stuf. His exact words to me were (I have no idea why they ( hamilton cops) pulled you in here. We talked cars for a few minites and I was off. I dint see anyone standing up for the Bikers and now they are just a waste of time for these guys to bother with, they ant gettin nothing they know the game to well. Tag your it ! cover your ass

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

i almost cant wait till the moe pull my rat truck in once its on the road, 51 buick engine in a 39 chev truck, no emmisions whatsoever. i cant wait to tell them how polluting my truck is, heck the crankcase gases vent thru a giant pipe that resembles another exhaust pipe, i know they hate that as its an easy source of fines for them. since everything is pretty much new on it they can even call in the mto too. should be an interesting encounter, ill be sure to video it all

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

fatstax be careful on what you wish for. It sounds like you are going to give them a hard time proving you are compliant. I am of the opinion treat them with respect if and when you EVER get pulled over. They can still make your life very difficult even though they may not find any infractions. Not only that we dont need to give them a bad taste towards our hobby. By pulling out a video camera and doing a photo shoot is probably not a good thing JMO though.

Canadian Poncho · PEI

The drive clean really needs to be dropped. I'm tired of customers yelling at me about a program I had nothing to do with. I had a customer last week who bought a car and was trying to get it licensed. He paid $35 for the initial test only to have the monitors not ready. He drove the car 200km and brought it back. He pays $17.50 for a retest. The monitors still weren't ready. Only now is he eligible for a two speed idle test where tailpipe emissions are measured. He paid another $35 for this test and it passed with flying colours. $87.50 for a test that should have only been $35....

-- Edited by Canadian Poncho on Monday 4th of March 2013 08:22:46 PM

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Thanks Chuck. I appreciate your encouraging words.

I agree: the Liberals have been completely irresponsible on this issue and many others. We'll do what we can to keep up the pressure.

Please continue to keep me informed on your experience with Drive Clean.

Randy

From: Chuck Amstrong [mailto:andmotpr@quadro.net]
Sent: February 21, 2013 5:57 PM
To: Pettapiece-co, Randy
Subject: Re: NR - Legislature back in session, Pettapiece speaks on Drive Clean

Thank you very much Mr Pettapiece ..I appreciate your work on this issue..I also run a motor vehicle repair shop and deal with this issue daily ..We have not had a vehicle fail for the last two years till this new OBDII test that is not pratical for the weather conditions we have here to be able to acuratley test using this method..It is a serious hardship to many of my customers who need their vehicles for work and to sustain the basics of life for emergencys and to have the government leave them stranded and unable to have their sticker issued for this is just insane ..It has caused many of my customers much stress and frustration for many law-abiding citizens who just want to comply with the law and be good citizens but the government of the day has been totaly irrisponsible in listening to what the taxpayer wants..They have much more concerned with saving there own ASS ..and saving seats, and running from their responsibility when they are called to account.. My hope would be that DALTON-IN-A-SKIRT will not survive long as he/she was not chosen by the taxpayers and we do not want the liberals in control of our purse any longer..Thank you very much on behalf of my customers for raising this isse..

Chuck Armstrong

5427 Line 10

RR#1 St.Marys

Ont

N4X 1C4

Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:10 PM
Subject: NR - Legislature back in session, Pettapiece speaks on Drive Clean

News Release
Randy Pettapiece, MPP|Perth-Wellington
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 21, 2013

Legislature back in session, Pettapiece speaks on Drive Clean

(Queen’s Park) – With the Ontario legislature finally back in session, Perth-Wellington MPP Randy Pettapiece wasted no time speaking up for local residents and businesses. In a February 21 statement in the legislature, Pettapiece blasted the government for its handling of the Drive Clean program.

The following is the text of his remarks:

“We in Perth-Wellington have what is lacking from this government: good common sense. We know a wasteful, ineffective, and aggravating government program when we see it. That’s exactly what we have in the Drive Clean program.

“Constituents are contacting me with their problems in trying to get their clean, late-model vehicles to pass the government’s revised emissions test. They also want to know why we have to get the test done, but our neighbouring counties do not. It doesn’t make any sense.

“Dealers have their own horror stories. Instead of measuring what matters – actual emissions from the tailpipe – the government demands they use a new, complicated computerized test. It’s prone to failure, even for perfectly good cars.

“To get some cars to pass the new test, technicians are advised to drive the car for 30 kilometers – at speeds of up to 65 miles per hour – all without stopping. Try that in small-town Ontario!

“The auditor general specifically warned the Liberals not to implement the new test until the technical problems were resolved. Typically, the government ignored the auditor’s advice. They also ignored his findings on value for money. Instead, they’re just making the problems worse, while picking even more from drivers’ pockets.

“I’ve met with dealerships and repair shops across Perth-Wellington. I’ve heard firsthand that the Drive Clean program is failing.

“It’s clear to us, Mr. Speaker, that this government is also failing the test – the test of common sense. I want to encourage my constituents to make their voices heard by signing the petition available at ScrapDriveClean.ca.”

Randy Pettapiece, MPP|519-272-0660|www.pettapiece.ca

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

Canadian Poncho wrote:
The drive clean really needs to be dropped. I'm tired of customers yelling at me about a program I had nothing to do with. I had a customer last week who bought a car and was trying to get it licensed. He paid $35 for the initial test only to have the monitors not ready. He drove the car 200km and brought it back. He pays $17.50 for a retest. The monitors still weren't ready. Only now is he eligible for a two speed idle test where tailpipe emissions are measured. He paid another $35 for this test and it passed with flying colours. $87.50 for a test that should have only been $35....

Can they just come in and pay the $87.50 and save the trip(s) ??? hmm

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

fatchuk wrote:
IF Driveclean is abolished, I am pretty sure the MOE will still be out there targeting cars, they will simply have a larger pool to choose from. The MOE and Driveclean (as far as I know) are two totally different things.
Thought!!!
if drive-clean is abolished..Who or where would be go for testing?? and what law would the MOE be enforcing if e-testing becomes redundant..

We can always hope..

As I understand it, the MOE's main focus is on equipment violations. Meaning emission control equipment that has been removed, is still present but not functioning (due to age or having been tampered with), or where a pre-emission era car is required to have emission control equipment due to the year of the engine. I am not saying they don't have the ability to "sniff" test a car but it seems the MOE is more interested in revenue generation through ticketing.

In the mid 80's, my 340 Duster was sent to a place on Falstaff rd (if I remember correctly) for a tailpipe sniff ... the cops were targeting cars that hung out at Weston and Finch (in Toronto) and were sending every "hot" car that showed up that night, for a sniff. This was WAY before Driveclean and the gov't had the equipment to sniff test back then.

One other thing, with the elimination of the dyno type sniff test and the implementation of a two-speed idle test, it sounds like it might actually be possible for the MOE to carry emission test equipment in their vehicles, if that is the case, they can test right on the side of the road.

The elimination of Driveclean (if it happens) simply means cars will not be required to submit for a sniff test every two years. All cars will still be required to be equipped with any and all emission controls the car or engine left the factory with. It is the MOE that enforces that requirement.

-- Edited by Pint and a Pound on Wednesday 6th of March 2013 12:49:23 PM

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

drive clean.png Hey guys we really need to keep sending this in and staying on this if we expect to make changes..Summer driving and the MOE will soon be rubbing thier hands in glee and tunning up their ticket books to.. Hunting season on Hot-Rodders opens in about a month..Copy and print this and sign a little note but keep it front and centre ..send it too your MPP... don't be whinning and sniveling about it later ..The time to take part in the fight is now ............

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

Couple of thoughts came to mind ...

IF Driveclean is abolished, I am pretty sure the MOE will still be out there targeting cars, they will simply have a larger pool to choose from. The MOE and Driveclean (as far as I know) are two totally different things.

My parents (both retired) have had both their cars sniffed every single year it was required and have not failed ever. All the money they spent on those stupid tests, plus the gas used and time spent going to and from those tests, has done absolutely nothing to help the environment.

It has been said that the MOE watches sites like this ... Hey, that's just great ... here's a thought (assuming you are monitoring this site too) ... Why not JOIN THIS SITE and answer the questions people have regarding the MOE enforcement campaign? Once again, I am asking the MOE, what does the MOE use as their source to determine what a vehicle is required to have as pertaining to emission controls? Eagerly awaiting an answer ...

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

IF Driveclean is abolished, I am pretty sure the MOE will still be out there targeting cars, they will simply have a larger pool to choose from. The MOE and Driveclean (as far as I know) are two totally different things.

Thought!!!

if drive-clean is abolished..Who or where would be go for testing?? and what law would the MOE be enforcing if e-testing becomes redundant..

We can always hope..

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

Redneck Rydes wrote:
Heres My problem.Want to get my 2004 Grand Am e tested.I took the plates of of it last November to put on the wifes winter car.She wants to drive the winter car all year,Great, So I thought I might as well get My e test done and then put my personel plates on it for the summer.Mint car not winter driven.So I put 30 days insurance on it for now, then I went down to licence office to get a 10 day temp plate and they said I have to have it e tested first, so how do I get it there,then have the test which it will fail because battery was unhooked for 5 months and a ABS light on,Then drive 30kms around the parking lot then wait 24 hrs to fail again,So I asked the guy if I put a set of current plates of of the winter car he said they can't test it because they have to take a picture of the plate to match the car being tested.I am so F%^cking pissed right now I dont' now what to do.Basically because of our government,I cant e test this car at all FOR SALE 2004 Grand Am 110,000kms never seen winter Best Offer..any ideas would be helpful,I have already had a couple of sugestions to have ...Well you now..

Temporary vehicle permits

A temporary vehicle permit allows you to drive for short-term purposes only. For example, you can use this permit to drive a vehicle to a:

licensing office
garage (e.g., to satisfy Safety Standards Certificate or Drive Clean requirements)

The above was taken directly from a gov't of Ontario website. Your car is in your name, would still be titled as a "fit" vehicle, but is not presently plated. I do understand that they have done away with the temp paper permit that used to be stuck to the windshield and are now using a small sticker that attaches to the licence plate itself ... that seems to be where you are running into trouble. I personally am thinking that you spoke to someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. As I understand it, some of the licence offices are actually franchises and are not being run directly by the gov't. I would suggest you contact the vehicle licencing branch of the Ontario gov't in order to get a real answer. That being said, I think the issue they are having is that you don't have any permanent plates assigned to that vehicle because you transfered the plates to your wifes car. Here is what I think you may have to do ... go to the licence bureau and either buy new plates or have them assign your custom plates to the car. With the car now assigned some actual plates, the driveclean people will now have something to take a picture of. Since the car is in your name and is a fit vehicle, you do not need a certification. Get the licence office to assign plates to the car but do not attempt to by a sticker for those plates ... when you buy the sticker is when you need the driveclean pass. With the car assigned UNSTICKERED plates, you should now be able to purchase a temp permit that allows you to drive the car and get the sniff done. As I mentioned earlier, you must have spoken to someone that read "car must be plated" but was too stupid to simply assign your plates to the car and not sell you a sticker.

Trust me, there IS a way to make this happen ... you just haven't spoken to the person with the correct answers yet.

I just reread my post and I am going to try to be a little clearer ... I think the only time you need a sniff test "pass" is when you are buying a sticker. They claim they won't sell you a temp permit because you car does not presently have any licence plates assigned to it. You should be able to assign your custom plates to your car without buying a validation sticker ... at that point, with the car now having assigned plates, you can buy a temp permit, deal with the ABS light, put some miles on the car to clear the history and go get it sniffed. Explain to the licence people (supervisor if needed) that since you are not stickering the plates at present, there is no reason why you should need a sniff pass at the moment ... you are simply assinging plates to the car.

Best of luck and please keep us posted.

-- Edited by Pint and a Pound on Monday 11th of March 2013 01:52:31 PM

Redneck Rydes · TRENTON, ONT & SOUTH CAROLINA

Heres My problem.Want to get my 2004 Grand Am e tested.I took the plates of of it last November to put on the wifes winter car.She wants to drive the winter car all year,Great, So I thought I might as well get My e test done and then put my personel plates on it for the summer.Mint car not winter driven.So I put 30 days insurance on it for now, then I went down to licence office to get a 10 day temp plate and they said I have to have it e tested first, so how do I get it there,then have the test which it will fail because battery was unhooked for 5 months and a ABS light on,Then drive 30kms around the parking lot then wait 24 hrs to fail again,So I asked the guy if I put a set of current plates of of the winter car he said they can't test it because they have to take a picture of the plate to match the car being tested.I am so F%^cking pissed right now I dont' now what to do.Basically because of our government,I cant e test this car at all FOR SALE 2004 Grand Am 110,000kms never seen winter Best Offer..any ideas would be helpful,I have already had a couple of sugestions to have ...Well you now..

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Redneck Rydes wrote:
Heres My problem.Want to get my 2004 Grand Am e tested.I took the plates of of it last November to put on the wifes winter car.She wants to drive the winter car all year,Great, So I thought I might as well get My e test done and then put my personel plates on it for the summer.Mint car not winter driven.So I put 30 days insurance on it for now, then I went down to licence office to get a 10 day temp plate and they said I have to have it e tested first, so how do I get it there,then have the test which it will fail because battery was unhooked for 5 months and a ABS light on,Then drive 30kms around the parking lot then wait 24 hrs to fail again,So I asked the guy if I put a set of current plates of of the winter car he said they can't test it because they have to take a picture of the plate to match the car being tested.I am so F%^cking pissed right now I dont' now what to do.Basically because of our government,I cant e test this car at all FOR SALE 2004 Grand Am 110,000kms never seen winter Best Offer..any ideas would be helpful,I have already had a couple of sugestions to have ...Well you now..

I know exactly what you should do !! Visit your local MPP's office and tell them how pissed you are and your vote hinges on whether they scrap this program or not !! If you don't make a complain, then that means you agree with how things are run .

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Redneck Rydes wrote:

Heres My problem.Want to get my 2004 Grand Am e tested.I took the plates of of it last November to put on the wifes winter car.She wants to drive the winter car all year,Great, So I thought I might as well get My e test done and then put my personel plates on it for the summer.Mint car not winter driven.So I put 30 days insurance on it for now, then I went down to licence office to get a 10 day temp plate and they said I have to have it e tested first, so how do I get it there,then have the test which it will fail because battery was unhooked for 5 months and a ABS light on,Then drive 30kms around the parking lot then wait 24 hrs to fail again,So I asked the guy if I put a set of current plates of of the winter car he said they can't test it because they have to take a picture of the plate to match the car being tested.I am so F%^cking pissed right now I dont' now what to do.Basically because of our government,I cant e test this car at all FOR SALE 2004 Grand Am 110,000kms never seen winter Best Offer..any ideas would be helpful,I have already had a couple of sugestions to have ...Well you now.

Couple things are unclear to me.. Who's name is the car in..When was the last e-test..is the car due for e-test even if your wife was replating it...or just putting her plates back on from using the winter beater.. and the thing about sticking another plate on if just for the trip to the e-test site..I would not tell him anything about the plate ..non of his business..he does e-test not ploice enforcement.. how the hell would he know if the plate belongs to the vechicle or whether you are going to transfer that plate to that vehicle as soon as he does the test..I know they take a picture but I don't beleive he can refuse the test becuase he thinks you you don't have the correct plate..non of his business nor is it his job to determine that.. leave that to the ploice..what if you just drove it to his lot remove your plates and as far as he is concerned you just towed it ..Is he going to refuse to do the e-test becuase it isin't plated .. That's just a crock of **** he's handing you..and the ABS lite on has nothing to do with the e-test..If you have ins coverage I would stick the plates on that you are going to transfer to that vehicle and just drive it for a couple days under normal cirumstances that thing should have all the monitors running in a very short order unless you have some other problem..but if you just drive for a dya or two and you do not have any check-money-lite on you should be good to go....if you do have a lite on ..give me the code and I will tell what you need to do correct it..I do this **** all day so I have some experience in problem solving emission systems..chill ..it's not all that complicated..don't let your blood presure get too high.. biggrin biggrin

v8deuce · OAKVILLE, ONT

Well here is another one I took your advise about getting a drive clean "pass" before these new stupid rules came out jan 1 (thanks guys) so I run the old car through in dec it's a 99 mercedes everything is cool just a tailpipe sniff, no problems so I'm thinking the 06 has never had a cel light on runs fine I will leave it till march WRONG what an idiot I was could have taken it in at the same time but no so I run it in today,had a 1:30 appontment run up and down 403 to make sure everything is good and hot then I'm in the waiting room and the tech runs it through but he's scratching his head.Read out says your car never passed but no explaination why so he calls d/c they have no idea either so he runs the next customers car through same thing so I was told to wait for a call to come back when drive clean gets it sorted out??????? Now question, this shop dont have a dyno anymore does the two speed idle need one?

Randy

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

Two speed idle test is done without the dyno

DaveM · ONTARIO

v8deuce wrote:
Now question, this shop dont have a dyno anymore does the two speed idle need one?

Randy
Nope. Idle and 2500rpm in neutral. The shop that I take my cars to to be tested now has it's emissions dyno bay stacked full of tires.

workin class · FINCH, ONT

I was at a auction 2 weeks ago at Bilisle Chevrolet in Ottawa they shut down after 60+ years. The dyno and all equipment sold for $300.00 they only had 1 BID. Every one started laughing and cursing when they announced the next item was the drive clean station.

Pint and a Pound · AJAX, ONT

workin class wrote:
I was at a auction 2 weeks ago at Bilisle Chevrolet in Ottawa they shut down after 60+ years. The dyno and all equipment sold for $300.00 they only had 1 BID. Every one started laughing and cursing when they announced the next item was the drive clean station.

I saw one available FREE on Kijiji a week or two ago, "take it apart and take it away and it's yours free" ... they were just wanting rid of it. The owner must have decided it wasn't even worth the trouble to take it apart and haul it in for scrap. I though those machines were BIG dollars when new, now some aren't even worth their weight at the scrap yard ... with any luck the gov't will be reimbursing the shop owners for their loss (yeah right ).