Is bigger better?....winch

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Is bigger better?....winch

jarvis1 · COBBLE HILL, BC

Read the fine print on a winch. A 4,000 lb. winch can not lift 4,000 lbs. I think it will have a little drawing of a 2 to 1 hitch, a 3 to 1, and a 4 to 1 hitch. Usually it is the 4 to 1 whip that gives the 4,000 lb. rating. You would need more than 100' of cable to move 4,000 lbs of dead weight 25 feet. Plus a bunch of pullys.
A 4,000 lb car has very little rolling resistance.

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

You are 100 percent right. You don't find that out untill you buy it and take it home and open the box to read the instruction inside. Just wish the retailers would have told me that it would pull my car up instead of trying to get me to buy a $$$ bigger unit.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I'm using a 2000lb. winch on my trailer & it works well & if need be, for a heavier car just use a "snatch block" & double the capicity of the winch!! But you need all the cable you got to "double up" I've never been able to get the cable to go back on the spool like it was "brand new" close but not as tight!!!!!

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Darkside wrote:
Just bought a new car trailer. Drove a total of 4 miles before I had an issue with the m.t.o. Anyways I needed a winch to pull my 4000lb buick project onto it. Every retailer told me I would need at least a 6500lb for $750 to pull it up onto the trailer. My thinking is if its advertized at 4000lbs it better pull 4000lbs almost up a damn tree. Canadian tire had a 4000lb for $179. Attached it to the trailer and it pulled the car on like nobodys buisness. Only complant is the cable is too long and it doesn't wind back up the way it came out of the box. Need to take about 10ft out of the lenght and it should be good. Hopes this helps those who are looking for some info on a winch size.

What problems did you have with MTO ??

wolfman1 · ST GEORGE, ONT

Had a small 3000# winch on my trailer for years and it struggled, even seemed scary some times
Finally broke down and bought an 8500# winch and it will drag just about any car on the trailer, flat tires, seized brake etc.
Money well spent because I always seem to be dragging stuff home

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Happy with one I have but I don't think it would haul something on with locked wheels....as for the mto I was using my safari van to bring it home and it started to sway on the road . Pulled over and seen tire was going flat. Put my mini pump on it and started to fill it. Car pulled up behind me and asked if I needed a hand. Told him I was good but thanked him anyways. Guy was looking at my trailer and since it was new I more than happy to tell him all about it and what I was going to use it for..Turned out he worked for the mto. Proceded to tell me if I use the safari to pull it I could pull my car or tractor with no issues. If I use my pickup I would need yellow stickers for truck and trailer because they have a combined load rating of over 4500kgs. I told him that my tractor, trailer and truck only weigh 9200 lbs and it was for private use. He said it doesn't matter because it is rated to carry more. Then he told me what some of the fines could be so I went and got my truck and trailer yellow stickered and now I have to get my ownership changed to 4499 kgs. I was going to get it higher but he said if I do I would have to fill out log books or checks?? Anyways I should be legal now..I hope. Guy wasn't a prick but I was sure suprised that I needed all the stickers. Last time I hauled a car up from the states was in 2001 and all I did was rent the trailer from hitchman and go. Guess things have changed since then.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Darkside wrote:
Happy with one I have but I don't think it would haul something on with locked wheels....as for the mto I was using my safari van to bring it home and it started to sway on the road . Pulled over and seen tire was going flat. Put my mini pump on it and started to fill it. Car pulled up behind me and asked if I needed a hand. Told him I was good but thanked him anyways. Guy was looking at my trailer and since it was new I more than happy to tell him all about it and what I was going to use it for..Turned out he worked for the mto. Proceded to tell me if I use the safari to pull it I could pull my car or tractor with no issues. If I use my pickup I would need yellow stickers for truck and trailer because they have a combined load rating of over 4500kgs. I told him that my tractor, trailer and truck only weigh 9200 lbs and it was for private use. He said it doesn't matter because it is rated to carry more. Then he told me what some of the fines could be so I went and got my truck and trailer yellow stickered and now I have to get my ownership changed to 4499 kgs. I was going to get it higher but he said if I do I would have to fill out log books or checks?? Anyways I should be legal now..I hope. Guy wasn't a prick but I was sure suprised that I needed all the stickers. Last time I hauled a car up from the states was in 2001 and all I did was rent the trailer from hitchman and go. Guess things have changed since then.

I'm surprized that he said you would be OK with your Safari van but not a pick-up !! something doesn't seem right about that comment because the RGVW of your Safari plus the RGVW of the car trailer would be way over the 4500 KG allowed.

Ratmotor · PARRY SOUND, ONT

I use a 8500 LB Super Winch and a snatch block for ease. I can pull a house down. Two of my friends were with the MTO and I followed their combined advice to up the GVW to 4499KG and to yellow sticker my 2500 Dodge and my trailer to be fully compliant. I use a chain and bear trap on every corner plus J hooks with the winch cable. They would have a hard time charging me.....

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Safari van is a blue plate vehical and does not have a RVGW sticker rating.

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Hmm..He never said anything about what I have to use to secure them. Bought 4 10,000 lbs straps...should hold and be legal.

Ratmotor · PARRY SOUND, ONT

I don't trust straps but do use them to secure loose doors,hoods or fenders.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Darkside wrote:
Safari van is a blue plate vehical and does not have a RVGW sticker rating.

All vehicles have an RVGW rating !! It's located on your driver's door. Anyway, we'll leave it that.

Jazz · THUNDER BAY, ONT

Your insurance premiums will also increase as will the cost of your license plates I believe. I used my 4runner for towing and no stickers required because its not a truck,,,really the good folks who write these rules don't consider it a truck..my receiver was rated for 7500lbs.,,so my gross was around 12,000 lbs.

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

Darkside wrote:
Hmm..He never said anything about what I have to use to secure them. Bought 4 10,000 lbs straps...should hold and be legal.

as long as there is a certification sticker they are legal.

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

I was visiting the Hamilton yesterday picking up a load of 10"pipe. I was on Upper James road old hwy 6 and White Church Road. The MTO were doing a blitz on trailers and pick up's I watched two sets of plates being pulled. I was in the area for a while as my load wasn't ready When I was leaving the area they were set up on the Garner Road just waiting on the next victim lol. So yes they are out there I just kept my fingers crossed and cruised on by. lol

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Modfather wrote:
I was visiting the Hamilton yesterday picking up a load of 10"pipe. I was on Upper James road old hwy 6 and White Church Road. The MTO were doing a blitz on trailers and pick up's I watched two sets of plates being pulled. I was in the area for a while as my load wasn't ready When I was leaving the area they were set up on the Garner Road just waiting on the next victim lol. So yes they are out there I just kept my fingers crossed and cruised on by. lol

As long as MTO does the job we pay them to do, I'm OK with that. Anyone towing a trailer that is unsafe deserves to have their plates pulled, and I have seen plenty of crappy trailers being pulled.

Unfortunatelly, like any other part of our Government, they have gotten too fat and have been given too much power and have too many laws to screw with the general public. Take this yellow sticker law !! IMO, there's no way that private individuals should have to get their personal vehicle and trailer(s) certified every year for something that is used a few times a year.

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

when i lived in halifax i had to get a safety on everything with a plate every year including my utility trailer. yep lights work give us $30. new wiper blades on my jeep every year too. the garage had to make there money somehow.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I can see Ontario following suit on annual Inspections like other prov. have!!! Especially after a MTO OPP blitz & plates removed from unsafe vehicles!! Happens every long wknd. & news covers all the CRAP being taken off the road!!! One of these days it will click in that they can "bend us over some more' & they [GOV.] will start collecting the tax on Insp. fees!!!! I have a letter from Minister of Transportation that I keep in G/box of suburban that states that if "tow vehicle has car plates [blue & white] then no yellow stickers are req. on trailer or tow vehicle"!!!!!

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Just checked my van for a rvgw rating. It was 5900LBS. Called the vineland scales and he said if its a blue plate for passengers im good.Neighbour has the same van but its a cargo with no back seats and he has black plates. Im thinking the same way Hemi is because the van still has the ability to pull the loads as does my pick up. Just to be safe Im going to only use the pick up to haul things. Bought some chains off the same neighbour today. They had 4500lbs tags on them but he took the tags off because of liability issues? Think the tags were a max weight rating. Anyways Ratmotor said he uses chains and bear traps on all 4 corners...whats a bear trap?

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

dualquadpete...what are the chances that I could get you to email me a copy of that blue plate letter?

Keeper · OSHAWA, ONT

Like this for instance

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-other-parts-accessories-10K-Super-Winch-with-TJ-mount-W0QQAdIdZ467143542

10k winch $400

-- Edited by poncho62 on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 07:33:09 PM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

This is taken from the MTO site, and I have highlighted some of the items that have been mentioned here;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. What vehicles need to be inspected under the National Standard?

Annual Inspection and Safety Standars Certificate (SSC):

Trucks, trailers and converter dollies alone or in combination with a total gross weight, registered gross weight or manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating exceeding 4,500 kilograms (kg),

"Truck" includes, but is not limited to truck tractors, straight trucks, pickup trucks, curb side/cube vans, trade vans/panel trucks, and passenger vans and two and four wheel drive sport utility vehicles while being used to transport cargo, other than personal effects, with one or more of the vehicle's rear seats removed. This applies regardless of how the vehicle is plated, e.g., car, truck or farm plated.

"Trailer" means a vehicle that is at any time drawn upon a highway by a motor vehicle, except an implement of husbandry, a mobile home, another motor vehicle or any device or apparatus not designed to transport persons or property, temporarily drawn, propelled or moved upon such highway, and except a side car attached to a motorcycle, and shall be considered a separate vehicle and not part of the motor vehicle by which it is drawn.

"Trailer converter dolly" means a device consisting of one or more axles, a fifth wheel lower-half and a tow bar.

Trailers include, but is not limited to boat, snowmobile, livestock, and general purpose utility trailers. "Trailer" does not include devices such as tar pots, portable welders, cement mixers, compressors, farm implements such as farm wagons, etc.

Annual Inspection, Semi-Annual Inspection and Safety Standars Certificate (SSC):

"Bus", any motor vehicle designed for the transportation of 10 or more passengers excluding the driver; e.g. passenger van, limousine, motor coach, school bus, etc. Buses with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating of 4,500 kg or less used exclusively for personal use are exempt from the annual and semi-annual inspections.

"Accessible Vehicle", any vehicle that has been modified for the purpose of transporting persons with disabilities whether or not the vehicle is also used for transporting persons without disabilities, excluding those used exclusively for personal use; e.g. this could include a, mini-van, passenger van or taxi that has been modified for accessibility.

"School Purposes Vehicles" any vehicle operating under contract with a school board or other authority in charge of a school being used for the transportation of six or more children or adults with a developmental disability; e.g. this could include any vehicle including school buses.

-- Edited by hemi43 on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 08:02:38 PM

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

Want to have a laugh? My old S10 required black plates because it was a truck ( with a pathetic 2000lb tow rating), yet my friends Avalanche doesn't require them and has a 12,000lbs tow rating.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

The whole system is F-ked and needs to be imploded !!

Ratmotor · PARRY SOUND, ONT

A "bear trap" is slang for a load binder....

Keeper · OSHAWA, ONT

Wait, so as long as your truck/car has blue plates, you do not need a yellow sticker?

How does that work with "vanity" plates, they are all blue....hmmmmmm

As for the winch. Get the biggest one you can afford. Keep an eye out on the 4x4 forums/classifieds. You can usually find someone upgrading from an 8000 to a 10/12 and pick them up on the cheap.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Keeper wrote:
Wait, so as long as your truck/car has blue plates, you do not need a yellow sticker?

How does that work with "vanity" plates, they are all blue....hmmmmmm

As for the winch. Get the biggest one you can afford. Keep an eye out on the 4x4 forums/classifieds. You can usually find someone upgrading from an 8000 to a 10/12 and pick them up on the cheap.

There's a lot of wrong information being posted here, but I've been keeping quiet about it because i always get myself in crap when I try to set the record straight.

All I'm gonna say is that it doesn't matter what colour plate you have, whether you drive a van or a pick-up or a car or what ever. The law states that if the combined weight of the vehicle's GRVW plus the trailer's GRVW is over 4500kg, then you need a yellow sticker !! The only exception to this rule is if your vehicle or trailer is an RV.

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

So what I gather from hemis post if I am using my mini van transporting my personal item..[tractor] and do not have any of the seats removed I don't need a yellow sticker? Am I reading that right?

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Darkside;
I've been searching the net for the past hour to give you better information, but I can't find anything other than what I've posted.
I've been digging into this "trailer" stuff for at least 3 years, and I still have questions that have not been answered even after a few trips to my local MTO office.
IMHO, you do need a yellow sticker (SSC) yearly whether you use your van or your pickup. You will also need one on the trailer. If you have any other trailers regardless of their RGVW, they will also need to have the sticker if they are pulled with a vehicle that is stickered. It's a crazy rule, but it's the law.
I truly believe that the information given to you by that MTO person is false. Even these guys don't know the laws they're enforcing. Please do some research on this and keep us informed. I want someone to prove me wrong because I hate this as much as you.
I'm not sure how heavy your trailer and tractor is, but something else you may want to look into is the weight rating of your license plates. If the trailer weighs more than 2800kg, then you will have to increase the weight limit . This weight is listed on your trucks ownership, and it's usually 3000 KG.
You'll find that you're digging into some real confusing information, but it's something you must know because ignorance of the law is not an excuse when you get pulled over on the side of the road.

Here's the info on how to determine your gross weight;

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/trailers.shtml

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Yeah this is all a bunch of crap...truck is 4700lbs with gas and me...tractor is 2700 lbs trailer is 2300lbs. Total 9700lbs.or 4399kgs. Got the pick up and trailer yellow stickered. Have 10,000 lbs straps and now have 4 4500lbs chains and Im going to get load binders. Van is not going to be used. I will up my ownership to 4499kgs . This has got to be enough to make me legal...thax for all the help.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I don't think you will have to up your ownership !! Your total loaded trailer is only 5000lbs (2272kg), and they don't add a trailer that weighs less than 6160lbs (2800kg) to the GVRW of your truck. I say yellow sticker on your truck and any other trailers you plan to pull with it, and you should be good to go.
The problem I have with the yellow sticker is that it's basically another tax, but it's an inconvenience to have to get it done every year. I agree it keeps (some) junk off of our roads, but that's what MTO should be targetting in their blitzes !!
Too bad your trailer is not a homebuilt !! Homebuilt trailers do not have an RGVW, therefore they use actual weight. That would put you at 9700 lbs, which is just below the legal limit and you would not have to get yellow stickers on anything. I know what I would be doing !!! Hint, Hint !!

JohnnyBgood · ST CATHARINES, ONT

Check with the scales and they said if trailer is home made they will use the axle weight ratings for the trailer. I have 2 so I would be 7000lbs. It is up to the owner to prove the weight ratings.If I under rate the axles I would be over my weight limit for the trailer with my tractor on it and get a fine...got ya coming and going.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Darkside wrote:
Check with the scales and they said if trailer is home made they will use the axle weight ratings for the trailer. I have 2 so I would be 7000lbs. It is up to the owner to prove the weight ratings.If I under rate the axles I would be over my weight limit for the trailer with my tractor on it and get a fine...got ya coming and going.

Here's where confusion kicks in!! Your MTO guys in St. Catherines say they will use the axle ratings to find out the RGVW of your home built trailer, but I asked the same question out here in Bowmanville and they say they will use actual weight of the trailer if no RGVW is available. It's all about interpretation. disbelief