My mothers 2003 saturn l200 keeps blowing the front ds wheel bearing(and its a PITA to fix). A couple of winters ago I was driving it in the winter and I was an ass and slid it into a curb. I replaced the wheel bearing and the bent rim and everything was alright for about a year, then went again. So I/my mother was doubting my work and brought it to a shop that we use with good results usually, they did the bearing and an alignment. They said everything was good. Its been roughly a year and its going again. Could the control arm be bent? Or possibly the hub where the bearing presses into? Any help would be appreciated as the bearings are not cheap and I'd like to fix the problem for good (outside of the fact its a saturn lol).
sounds like a possible deformation of the housing that holds the bearing, ive seen it before, would get a complete strut assembly from a wrecker and change the whole unit. if the alignment is ok theres no other reason the bearing would fail so often
Possibly bent hub. Never seen it though. My first question is, Where are you getting your bearings from. Get OE bearings. After market especially white box stuff is usually crap. OK guys flame me if you want for that statement but I have been doing this a long time and that what I see time and time again.
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could be bad bearings - not uncommon to only get a year from many of them. other thing to look for - it is front wheel drive correct?
the bearing spindle nut has a specific torque that a big bar and feels right wont get you to - and I say this because most mechanics do not have a torque wrench that will read up in the 180 ft lb range or more, that most of these bearings require
it is the torque on the spindle nut that gives the proper preload on the bearing
if it is a rear bearing, that is sealed, and has no drive axle/spindle nut - it is the bearing failing most likely - just poor manufacture
-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Wednesday 8th of May 2013 07:34:43 AM
I have been doing this for a long time also and most jobbers carry two lines of bearings. The one year ones and good ones ..We have been caught with them too..Either get CR or OE ..the good ones have a 3 year warranty and the cheappies have a one year ...So I would be more inclined to beleive you just got a cheap bearing or they hosed you and sold you the cheap one for the high price..I really doubt that you have any issue with your hub..I have this many times..with the Cheap off Shore bearings..
2 bearings failing around the same time? both being inferior units i doubt it. the defect in the spindle would be almost undectectable but even the most minor misalignment would shorten the life of the bearing, to the point of failing at a similiar interval.
A timken OE replacement bearing was used both times. I supplied the mechanic with the bearing as I get a great discount at an autoparts place. (father in-law works there) I was kind of leaning towards a scrap yard and replacing everything like fatstax said. Also poncho the uplander that I put over 300000kms on went through several bearings in its life. It was used as a CAA Light Service vehicle, so it was loaded with battries all the time.
I would put a spindle on it from a rotten or rear ended donor. No point in putting another bent one from a wreck(front damage) - make sure you see the car it comes from!
It's also extremely important to make sure you follow the torque specs exactly - those bearings are sensitive to over/under torquing.
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I absolutely agree with torqueing ..Thats just a given or should be..I still very much doubt it's anything to do with the hub..are you having a tire wear issue ? or a steering Issue ? Is the steering wheel straight? was the car aligned after the accident?? There are lots of poor ,cheap bearings ...get the life time bearings..there is lots of levels of quality .Can't say I have ever had to replace a hub for a worn bearing ..guess it could happen but it would be rare..two bearing in a year ...seen it many times..
Are "tats" a metric, or imperial measurement?? I checked my machinery's handbook but it's not in there !! Maybe it's an aerospace definition ??I even Googled "TatTatTas", but all it found was porn sites.
-- Edited by hemi43 on Wednesday 8th of May 2013 03:52:48 PM
I had 3 axle brgs all BAD from NAPA, can't remember the brand but were not the cheapies!! They found out from 3 other customers [all within a week] that they had a "BAD" batch & notified the wharehouse!!! They made good on the 2 sets but not the 1st one??? I was getting real "quick" at changing them!!
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the car was aligned after the accident and seemed to be fine. But it has devolped noises while turning left but still trails straight also the wheel is straight. The tire wears on the outside only, so something is obviously out of place, worn or bent.
i usually give the front nut 4 tats from the impact gun. if the units u installed were timkens i would most certainley say u have a deformed housing.
Problem with giving it "4 tats from the impact gun" is what if it only needs 2??? Over-torqueing does NOT do it any good. All you end up do is stretching the bolt or nut. Look at a lot of the wheel problems on the transports. Too many tire guys will crank them on tight and then torque them. That doesn't work. If your gun is good for 600 foot pounds of torque at max air pressure, you have overtightened them. Then when you use the torque wrench to check for a 550 Ft/lb measurement, it will say that it is good when in reality it is overtight. Another problem when use a gun to tighten, air pressure does have an effect on torque values.
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i usually give the front nut 4 tats from the impact gun. if the units u installed were timkens i would most certainley say u have a deformed housing.
Problem with giving it "4 tats from the impact gun" is what if it only needs 2??? Over-torqueing does NOT do it any good. All you end up do is stretching the bolt or nut. Look at a lot of the wheel problems on the transports. Too many tire guys will crank them on tight and then torque them. That doesn't work. If your gun is good for 600 foot pounds of torque at max air pressure, you have overtightened them. Then when you use the torque wrench to check for a 550 Ft/lb measurement, it will say that it is good when in reality it is overtight. Another problem when use a gun to tighten, air pressure does have an effect on torque values.
sorry zig i thought you would have caught me, front wheel drive bearing units are pre loaded so to speak, it doesnt matter how much you tighten the nut you wont crush the bearing, well unless you put like a 1000 ft pound impact gun on it and go to town, it would likely break the axle shaft or strip the nut. the axle shafts are also hardened so they dont tend to stretch either, ive installed more wheel bearings than i can count and i ve never had to torque them before. making sure they are tightened enough is important as well. wheel studs are a different matter though, 3 tats and a few small tatatats.
fastax - your statement couldn't be more wrong - the bearings are NOT pre loaded in any way shape or form - matter of fact - for example - if you could drive a car without the front drive axle installed , it would last a couple miles before exploding as there is nothing to hold the bearing halves together - that's been proven time and again in 4x4 hubs when someone broke a shaft I nthe field and removed it to get home and didn't make it
and yes - you most certainly can over tighten a bearing
there is no place for an impact gun in a shop for putting parts on, they are only for removing parts. Period
there is no such thing as a good mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench for everything these days and keep this in mind - if one of your customers lost a wheel cuz your brap brap brap with a gun overstretched the wheel studs - you would be goin to jail not just court, for criminal negligence - lots of case law for that one
I love impact guns and guys who think like that..just crank it down..never mind that the maunfacturer has a torque spec..Those guys make lots of work for us..Failing to torque Wheel bearings to manufactureres specs is the biggest cause of failure..over torquing wheel nuts warps rotors .I love it ..good for my bank account so please don't discourage those guys with impact guns..I got bills to pay
OK !! You guys are really messing with my head . I've been searching all afternoon trying to find out what "Tat Tat Tat" is, then Seeker comes in with "Brap Brap Brap " !! Piss on it, I'm using glue and tie wraps from now on....
I've been doing a bit more poking around and found that the sub frames on these cars are weak and also rotting out. Heres a pick of one from the same car. I have to take a good look at the frame tomorrow. Could have I possibly bent this??
fastax - your statement couldn't be more wrong - the bearings are NOT pre loaded in any way shape or form - matter of fact - for example - if you could drive a car without the front drive axle installed , it would last a couple miles before exploding as there is nothing to hold the bearing halves together - that's been proven time and again in 4x4 hubs when someone broke a shaft I nthe field and removed it to get home and didn't make it
and yes - you most certainly can over tighten a bearing
there is no place for an impact gun in a shop for putting parts on, they are only for removing parts. Period
there is no such thing as a good mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench for everything these days and keep this in mind - if one of your customers lost a wheel cuz your brap brap brap with a gun overstretched the wheel studs - you would be goin to jail not just court, for criminal negligence - lots of case law for that one
sorry but they are made to not be overtightened, yes they will come apart if theres no axle. take one apart and you will see what i mean. i am talking about FRONT WHEEL DRIVE BEARINGS, not all bearings, of course single bearings on vehicles can be overdone. i not talking about wheel studs either. read the posts a bit closer so you understand what is being discussed. as well i have impacted on more bearings and wheels than most people have likely seen and i have never ever had one single wheel or bearing fail after i installed it in over 26 years. show me a shop anywhere that doesnt impact parts on and ill show you my unicorn i keep in the backyard
I've been doing a bit more poking around and found that the sub frames on these cars are weak and also rotting out. Heres a pick of one from the same car. I have to take a good look at the frame tomorrow. Could have I possibly bent this??
not likely, the car wouldnt align if it was major, the shop wouldnt align it either. minor bent frame could be compensated with an alignment but most shops would see the damage im sure
I've been doing a bit more poking around and found that the sub frames on these cars are weak and also rotting out. Heres a pick of one from the same car. I have to take a good look at the frame tomorrow. Could have I possibly bent this??
While you are checking the sub frame. Don't forget to look up and see if there is any damage/severe rust up around where the struts mount. Could have a crack up there that was not noticable before but might be now. Check your springs. I have seen them where they have cracked up at the top. Something also, when you are checking out the front end, jack the front end up and put your stands under the sub frame. Sometime you can find problems when the weight has been relieved and left to hang.
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Brother changed one of these subframes out a couple weeks back in his bodyshop, I could not get over how rotten it actually was when the rest of the machine looked relatively good... Bitch of a job to swap out too!
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Alright its finally getting bad enough I don't want to drive it. I was thinking of unbolting the subframe and seeing if it'll shift over back to the drivers side. The camber on the wheel are as the whole frame shifted like this from the front // . Also either the wheel bearing or outer cv joint is completely shot. Heres a video of me shaking it.
I plan to try and get it back in reasonable shape this weekend as this unfortunately is my parts getter until I get a truck running. Thanks again for any advice.
from what I can see it looks like a really bad wheel bearing ..unless that subframe is rusted out I would not change it I would just do the wheel bearing..one thing you should be aware of considering it's a pain to change is there are different quality wheel bearings..I would be putting a good one in..still way cheaper than swapping that subframe unless you know for sure it has an issue and if your not wearing tires unusually I doubt that you have a subframe issue..My son-in-law has a Saturn and he puts front bearings in it about every two years ..put a fair amount of miles on too..just sayin
Thanks fatchuk, I just double checked the subframe and its definitely not rusted through. But the tires are wearing unusually they sit like this when I look from the front / / and the drivers side is the side that hit the curb.
Stii I would have an alignment shop take a look after the wheel bearing gets replace and they can tell if they can align or if it's damaged and needs replacing..you may have jarred it but not damaged it..Maybe it can be aligned.the wheel bearing is a seperate issue from the subframe..
