We have had difficulties logging on with the GuildClassicCars screen name which is why I have posted under "Justsaying".
My Name is Thomas Douglas and I am Head of Research and Special Projects at the Guild of Automotive Restorers. The previous post by "Justsaying" was written and approved for posting by the owner of the Guild David Grainger.
I was Head of the Bugatti project during it's last few years of it's build and would like to address the comment of the Bugatti's front fenders and the filler seen in the episode in which the fender fell from it's stand. At the time that the Bugatti's front fender fell off the stand it was in the preliminary bodywork stage. Before the incident happened Mr. Grainger and I had noticed that there was too much fill being applied to the Bugatti's fenders. The tech was in the process of trying to rectify this mistake when the accident happened. The real headline in the whole ordeal was that the magnesium cracked when it hit the ground in several spots which required nearly the entire fender to be stripped to facilitate welding the damaged metal. There in nowhere near the amount of filler depicted in the show on the finished product.
The Bugatti in not a "clone". It is in every sense of the word a recreation. What makes the Bugatti special is the fact that it sits on a very rare and complete original Type 57 Chassis. The engine, gearbox, rear axle and braking components are all original to chassis 57104. The front axle was the only thing that did not survive it's 79 year journey to the present but all the brake components and spindles that attached to the front axle did survive. The body was lost during a presumed accident where it was removed in the 50's. 57104 is the oldest surviving Type 57 Chassis on record and is extremely complete. The engine is worth almost $300,000.00 alone.
The coachwork on the Bugatti is faithfully and completely "recreated" using only period accurate materials and methods. An example of this would be the seats being made using horse hair wrapped in muslin and genuine Italian leather for the cover. Another would be the magnesium body which we painstakingly recreated in Elektron Magnesium. If we were building a "clone" or a "replica" we could have made the seats from foam and the body from fiberglass as well as used a number of other shortcuts on the car making it worth nothing and just another replica. I can tell you first hand that the Bugatti truly is a magnificent achievement and one that will forever be known as "The Canadian Aerolithe" so please take pride and enjoy the achievement and take David up on the offer to tour the facility and see the Bugatti for yourself.
As for the Rolls Royce the brake pads were brand new, never used and installed on the Rolls Royce shortly after we removed them from the donor. For people who have never had to do a brake job on a Rolls Royce, for a complete refurbishment of the braking system it costs more than $13,000.00 in parts alone. Shipping times range from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. We had new pads installed on the donor Rolls (shop project on hold) that we used to complete the customers car for him to drive and enjoy in the summer. When the new pads arrived a few weeks later we reinstalled them on the donor at company expense. I hope this has answered some of your questions and again, please take Mr. Grainger up on his offer to tour the facility and ask any and all questions you may have as we would be happy to answer them.
Sincerely,
Thomas Douglas,
Proudly Head of Research and Special Projects at the Guild of Automotive Restorers.
Thanks for posting Thomas . Never seen the show or the car your talking about but it s good to hear your side of the story.
(We have had difficulties logging on with the GuildClassicCars) looking at the user details Im surprized you can log on at all. Hope you stick around . Take what you need , add what you can .
Perhaps the reason that you are having trouble logging on is that the user name is Guild Classic Cars, with spaces between the names. If you have further trouble, let me know by PM and I will see what I can do
thanks
We have had difficulties logging on with the GuildClassicCars screen name which is why I have posted under "Justsaying".
My Name is Thomas Douglas and I am Head of Research and Special Projects at the Guild of Automotive Restorers. The previous post by "Justsaying" was written and approved for posting by the owner of the Guild David Grainger.
I was Head of the Bugatti project during it's last few years of it's build and would like to address the comment of the Bugatti's front fenders and the filler seen in the episode in which the fender fell from it's stand. At the time that the Bugatti's front fender fell off the stand it was in the preliminary bodywork stage. Before the incident happened Mr. Grainger and I had noticed that there was too much fill being applied to the Bugatti's fenders. The tech was in the process of trying to rectify this mistake when the accident happened. The real headline in the whole ordeal was that the magnesium cracked when it hit the ground in several spots which required nearly the entire fender to be stripped to facilitate welding the damaged metal. There in nowhere near the amount of filler depicted in the show on the finished product.
The Bugatti in not a "clone". It is in every sense of the word a recreation. What makes the Bugatti special is the fact that it sits on a very rare and complete original Type 57 Chassis. The engine, gearbox, rear axle and braking components are all original to chassis 57104. The front axle was the only thing that did not survive it's 79 year journey to the present but all the brake components and spindles that attached to the front axle did survive. The body was lost during a presumed accident where it was removed in the 50's. 57104 is the oldest surviving Type 57 Chassis on record and is extremely complete. The engine is worth almost $300,000.00 alone.
The coachwork on the Bugatti is faithfully and completely "recreated" using only period accurate materials and methods. An example of this would be the seats being made using horse hair wrapped in muslin and genuine Italian leather for the cover. Another would be the magnesium body which we painstakingly recreated in Elektron Magnesium. If we were building a "clone" or a "replica" we could have made the seats from foam and the body from fiberglass as well as used a number of other shortcuts on the car making it worth nothing and just another replica. I can tell you first hand that the Bugatti truly is a magnificent achievement and one that will forever be known as "The Canadian Aerolithe" so please take pride and enjoy the achievement and take David up on the offer to tour the facility and see the Bugatti for yourself.
As for the Rolls Royce the brake pads were brand new, never used and installed on the Rolls Royce shortly after we removed them from the donor. For people who have never had to do a brake job on a Rolls Royce, for a complete refurbishment of the braking system it costs more than $13,000.00 in parts alone. Shipping times range from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. We had new pads installed on the donor Rolls (shop project on hold) that we used to complete the customers car for him to drive and enjoy in the summer. When the new pads arrived a few weeks later we reinstalled them on the donor at company expense. I hope this has answered some of your questions and again, please take Mr. Grainger up on his offer to tour the facility and ask any and all questions you may have as we would be happy to answer them.
Sincerely,
Thomas Douglas,
Proudly Head of Research and Special Projects at the Guild of Automotive Restorers.
Well Thomas , interesting post, As for the filler in the fenders , you guys left the viewers with the inpression that your workers were doing the finishing touchs on the fenders , just what all the people who watched the show saw ,,,,
If the Buggati was a hemicuda or a yenko or boss 9 , and some 1 put a new body on it , most in collector world would call it a rebody , not good , but we do realise its 2 different worlds between the cars them selves . recreation would be a better word....
As for the brakes , it showed your guys out in the yard looking for brake pads , and bam you found some , that again lead us to believe that you used them instead of jumping on the phone and ordering new 1 s , do i believe you did that , not really , ive never once seen a show where employees sent into yard to get used brake pads...think your just doing some damage control out here .
And what is with the Vid cams inside your shop watching all your people work , really , you dont trust your staff or what,,you have them everywhere ??? Ill be willing to bet not 1 person out here works at a place who watch their staff like you guys do , is that really legal ??? ( let me guess your answe -- insur reasons )
You guys should be more carefull as to what your shop airs , if you have to come to a small ( but mighty ) forum like this to do the guilds damage control . hope doesnt make it it to the Hamb,,with 1000 s of members ,
As for your offer of a tour , no thanx ,
You guys seem to have a bad reputation before i started watching your show , from what others have heard and said ,, you guys ar in need of a face lift ..
and why is the head of research posting instead of an owner , its their shop , their reputation , they are the 1s, who should be doing the damage control , Again getting others to do work ( like emptying a console ) that owners are to high up there to do them selves .....I know if some thing gets messed up at our work places , my works not sending me to fix the situation with caterpiller ...
Your post was interesting as to history of Buggati , thanx for that.. as to the rest , we really only know what we saw on T V
I to have been coming here since the beginning...and there was very little drama and the fun poking was took in stride where EVERYBODY understood what was going on......whats missing when one or two come on saying that anybody who drag races 1/8 mile is nothing but a poser or wannabe...there was no fun poking in there..true,,it started out as a simple question...it then escalated to a deliberate attack knowing full well some would step in to defend it ...AND then to openly threaten and ridicule another member for posting on something......I saw no humour in that..And yes Harry can pull the plug on any thread he wants at any given time, but he is not here all the time,,,therefore he has mods...but it was he who came in and deleted a thread where the threats occurred only after HE was notified as was the above thread on the guild.....But , I guess you are right.. this is drama and I am adding to it..so I best stop and sit back and watch members quit posting till there are only a few certain ones left And Harry...its your site.. you need not explain why you did or do anything on here
-- Edited by fastchevy on Friday 4th of October 2013 08:54:43 PM
so i notice entire thread gone about the guild ,, mmmmmm also noticed new member called guild classic car joined and then thread gone mmmmmm
talked with harry - all i can say right now,, u figure it out
Poncho is running this site for fun, he doesn't need the drama or the headaches,
-- Edited by 2inchestoolow on Friday 4th of October 2013 07:39:28 PM
So why is there so much of it on here...IT WAS a good site till the BS,,the bashing and the threats started flowing and nothing has or was being done about it......Are the mods not the ones supposed to be helping Harry out to make this a good place to come to
I have never thought it was a bad place to come to, I see a lot of people having fun throwing comments back and forth...and a few who seem to miss the levity for whatever reason. There is very little "BS" compared to a few sites I have frequented in the past and I've been coming to this site from the beginning
I don't know who the mods are, but if Harry decides he wants to pull the plug on a thread that went side ways due to a new dynamic (or two) then so be it, he could close the doors completely if he felt like it.
I ask you this, why add to the drama if you want it to end?
Perhaps I need to explain why I deleted that thread.....I was not pressured into it in any way or anything like that.
A couple of you know that I moderate on one of the larger hot rod forums. A few years ago, there was a sort of similar to this thread that led to a lawsuit between the TV people and the owner of the forum. It cost the forum owner a lot of money to defend his position. I do not wish or can afford something like that to happen to me, so I decided to pull that thread. That is really all there is to it
I get the feeling that I have been a bit lax when it comes to laying out rules....I have never been a "rules" person.....I have always figured that when someone says something, people will take it for what its worth and decide for themselves if the person makes sense or is a jerk.
Just remember, what you post on the internet is there for the whole world to see......sometimes its better just to think it instead of saying it
Harry, I assumed that was why you chose to remove that thread, valid move.
Fastchevy, I don't come on here to fight or argue. I understand your point and it is valid. I just personally never take anything I read on these forums personally or to heart...it's like hanging out in a garage with a bunch of guys, the comments and insults start flying...but most always in good fun or to get another guy going....sometimes things go to far and maybe that has happened on this forum a time or two but in the end...it's all just entertainment. I think the forum has grown not died and I'll say it again, there is a lot less BS and drama on this forum then most of the others I have belong too. Part of what I like about this place is the fact that most members seem to have a good sense of humour and keep things lively.
This is the only hot rod site I go to most of the sites I go to are political in nature.This is the calmest site of them all,you want to read a fight and name calling try politics.The so called battles that go on here are more like a family squabble over a thanksgiving dinner.I don't really take any of it seriousely,except the hotrod stuff,and maybe the sports,well and maybe the politics,and then there price of cars,kijiji,tools,MOE-----------------!!. Ed
My German Shepard Dog likes squirrels....send them over here!!
And is the free tour offer still on the table??? I was telling the kids about it and they were interested. What's there address again...I was going to check in the thread but it is gone...like a freight train....gone like yesterday!!!!
Oh yeah....If I don't like a thread or am not interested in it....I don't look at it! To each there own. There are some great build threads to follow and some great show info and pictures. I've met some great guys from here this year and look forward to meeting more. Keep up the great work Poncho.
-- Edited by slab on Saturday 5th of October 2013 10:00:37 AM
__________________
slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
When ever anyone is contemplating any sort of service for which they will be paying they are ALWAYS advised to make inquiries about the potential supplier/server. One of the warnings about supplier/server "Satisfied customers" is that you do not know if what that person is telling you is "real customer satisfaction" or has a "Satisfied Customer" been hired to give a flowery response.
We all know of, or have heard of people that have deep pockets and do not appear to care how much something costs as long as they get the results they want, or at least are able to maintain "Peace of Mind". Like a wealthy person that will pay exce$$ive for an oil change or other work so that they do not have to get dirty.
There was a story on TV, in the last couple of years, of a young man that had inherited his Father's or Grandfather's 1930's Truck and wanted to restore it. He had also inherited about $60,000. The story on TV showed him talking about this and taking his truck to the "Restoration Shop"..
The rest of the story is the $60,000 is gone, the truck was given back to him in pieces. He had to load the pieces onto the truck himself, in the rain. I am sure someone could find the young man and talk to him.
The program was produced in Canada.
If you are NOT considering paying someone to restore or perform work/repairs on anything for you this story will mean nothing to you.
If you ARE considering having a shop do restoration, or other, work for you, the Ontario Government's Ministry of Consumers Services advice would be well read BEFORE initiating ANY work or service.
BEFORE anyone commissions ANY shop or service to perform ANY work or service to a Motor Vehicle READ AND BECOME FAMILIAR WITH the Ontario Motor Vehicle Repair Act. The Act has been around since 1990. Most people have still not read it. ESPECIALLY the part regarding "ESTIMATES".
My quip below, from the World Famous RED GREEN is most appropriate regarding this subject.
Think outside the box! LINES (read) LINES
the Kid
__________________
In the words of Red Green "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together".
There was a story on TV, in the last couple of years, of a young man that had inherited his Father's or Grandfather's 1930's Truck and wanted to restore it. He had also inherited about $60,000. The story on TV showed him talking about this and taking his truck to the "Restoration Shop".. The rest of the story is the $60,000 is gone, the truck was given back to him in pieces. He had to load the pieces onto the truck himself, in the rain. I am sure someone could find the young man and talk to him. The program was produced in Canada.
on one of the restoration garage episodes (i watched them on the internet) there is an 18 year old named james langdon who (as the story is told in the episode) bought a 1927 chevrolet pick up with money from an inheritance (they mention that both his dad and his grandfather have passed away) and dropped it off at 'restoration garage'. i can find no more information about this person on the internet or any mention of their issues with any restoration shop so i do not know if this is the same person you are talking about who has spent all his inheritance and still dont have a finished truck but it sure sounds like this is the same person you refer to. i obviously have no idea where you got the 'rest of the story' but i assume you are somewhat close to this situation due to your knowledge of what went down (to the point of him loading it in the rain without help from the shop). wouldnt it be a great thing if you and the rest of the back alley cruisers got together and helped this kid? (seeing you are in bradford and assuming james is local to you and the back alley cruisers).
Now that my friends would be a worthy show to watch.^^^^ Local Hotrodders help out local kid finish his project in rememberence of his GrandDad. Just say'n
__________________
slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
Is it just me. The part about the rain was the best laugh Iv had all day.There are a thousand James Langsdon's in Hamilton and not one of them has eaten in 4 days. Really if you find the dude and his story holds water Id pitch in but from where I sit it stinks like a prime time tv script
There was a story on TV, in the last couple of years, of a young man that had inherited his Father's or Grandfather's 1930's Truck and wanted to restore it. He had also inherited about $60,000. The story on TV showed him talking about this and taking his truck to the "Restoration Shop".. The rest of the story is the $60,000 is gone, the truck was given back to him in pieces. He had to load the pieces onto the truck himself, in the rain. I am sure someone could find the young man and talk to him. The program was produced in Canada.
on one of the restoration garage episodes (i watched them on the internet) there is an 18 year old named james langdon who (as the story is told in the episode) bought a 1927 chevrolet pick up with money from an inheritance (they mention that both his dad and his grandfather have passed away) and dropped it off at 'restoration garage'. i can find no more information about this person on the internet or any mention of their issues with any restoration shop so i do not know if this is the same person you are talking about who has spent all his inheritance and still dont have a finished truck but it sure sounds like this is the same person you refer to. i obviously have no idea where you got the 'rest of the story' but i assume you are somewhat close to this situation due to your knowledge of what went down (to the point of him loading it in the rain without help from the shop). wouldnt it be a great thing if you and the rest of the back alley cruisers got together and helped this kid? (seeing you are in bradford and assuming james is local to you and the back alley cruisers).
Now that my friends would be a worthy show to watch.^^^^ Local Hotrodders help out local kid finish his project in rememberence of his GrandDad. Just say'n
I did watch that show , if memory serves me right , think kid was left money after some 1 passed away ,, kid bought 27 ish farm truck , they had it all apart when kid and his mom came to see it ,, think i remember they found some really old paperwork in the truck . episode ended with paul guy took kid for a ride in a 50 ish chopped merc....last id seen or heard of the truck and the kid , never heard a money figure .
I watched the episode with the young guy too, He was like 17 and just starting out with a dream for his grandfather. Perhaps the company the started the work should finish it gratis. It might save a little face for the company and it would make good T.V for the producers. As far as B.A.C doing the work for the young guy well you never know who is in the audience. It was righteous of Grumps to step up, I am sure he could also round up a team from down his way. Hey another novel idea for a T.V. Show fellow rooders helping other rodders Hmmmm That has never been done before and I bet you could even get decent sponsors. Hosted by non other than grumps
Count me in if you are planning to get a group together to help the kid out ...
I'm sure there is plenty of combined talent on this board to make one HELL of a contribution to whatever work is remaining on his truck over the period of a weekend ...
You never know ... we may see his happy face with a beautifully restored truck on a future episode ...
LMFAO
-- Edited by DavidP on Monday 7th of October 2013 04:24:42 PM
-- Edited by DavidP on Monday 7th of October 2013 06:18:43 PM
We must all be getting Old Grumps. We are still old school up here too. We always try to help other club members no matter what skill sets we have. There is always someone with the right answer or skills.
We must all be getting Old Grumps. We are still old school up here too. We always try to help other club members no matter what skill sets we have. There is always someone with the right answer or skills.
"Old school" or just plain doing the "right thing", helping out a fellow brother is how it should always be if you can.......nice to see on here those fine traits and true hot rod customs being honoured....... good on ya all for keeping the faith when there's those that have to put a price on any type of effort.
First let me apologize for saying the truck was a 1930's Ford. It might not have been. The person that recounted this affair to me was an employee of the restoration shop when I was told the sad tale. The recounted story was Ford, but, It could have been a Chev. I do NOT know the young man's name because a) it was not recounted to me, and b) I have never watched an episode.
I know a number of people that have worked there over the years and I feel the story, as told to me, is believable.
Someone mentioned episodes can be watched on You Tube. make your own decision.
I am willing to pitch in with others to help.
Let's find that young man and where he or the truck is and let's git'er done!
the Kid
__________________
In the words of Red Green "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together".
During the 1990's I saw a letter in Street Rodder magazine from an Ontario Father, who had some health issues, he had begun building a 1946 Hudson Pickup Street Rod. He was building it with/for his teenage son that was being treated for cancer. He felt he had been overcharged, and the shops that had worked on the truck had under-performed. He was well passed the quoted/estimated cost and had a pile of parts.
I met with the man and promised to get back to him.
I contacted JB Street Rods in Caledon East. John contacted the Caledon Cruisers Car Club and we completed the truck.
Completion was timely and the truck was featured at Perfomance World Car Show. Father and son were guests of the show and the truck showed well. The father was overcome with emotion, they had the truck, completed and running and he still had his son to enjoy the truck. Over the ensuing years the father passed away and I heard the son died in an dirt bike accident. The older son, who had pitched in everywhere he could wound up with the truck and, last I heard he was in the Windsor area. The family had been in the Aylmer area.
Maybe you saw the truck at Performance World, The Hudson truck was Lavender, with a red dragon across the tailgate. Tilt front end, tilt pickup box. Big Block Chev. TH400, and a electronic digital read out console (console done by the father).
I took a photo of all the people that pitched in, with the Hudson, wrote a few words and sent it to Street Rodder magazine, who published it.
I love to quote TV stars. so, from the kids' TV show Handy Manny "Okay, tools. Let's get busy!"
Maybe if you are not familiar with that quote catch an episode of Handy Manny, you will feel better.
I'm in!
the Kid
__________________
In the words of Red Green "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together".
" body from fiberglass as well as used a number of other shortcuts on the car making it worth nothing and just another replica." JUST SAYIN
So I was reading over the explanation on the Bugatti and pulled the above from one of the paragraphs. I am happy to say my car, cars must be worth something as they are tin. I now feel for the fellow rodders that are running glass bodies and all of the hard work and monies invested. Yikes I never knew this
-- Edited by Modfather on Tuesday 8th of October 2013 07:17:57 AM
-- Edited by Modfather on Tuesday 8th of October 2013 07:24:53 AM
-- Edited by Modfather on Tuesday 8th of October 2013 10:35:35 AM
So, what they are saying basically is that all those glass bodied willys coupes guys are asking 40/60 thousand for are not worth it, or even close to it...i'm truly shocked.......yet, if one who has limited skills were to approach a prestigious shop and ask to have a glass bodied car ordered and built for them, it would cost them dearly for something, in the shops opinion, that's worth nothing because its a replica....Bible in one hand...gun in the other
Yup foot in the mouth syndrome. lol This was not my quote it was theirs. Some pretty nice glass body rides out there. Another kick in the pants for them.
Yeah I gotta call bullsh*t on this one too. Maybe I spent to much time in the musclecar field BUT try and tell a Cuda buyer that it's really a numbers matching car because we used the engine, k-member and rear axle plus the brakes on the body we re-created because it went missing. Did it have a body tag when it left? It isn't a replica or a glass model so it's still worth 300k cause it took so much time and then in the same breath the reach becomes that a glass hot rod isn't worth anything because it isn't "real" ??
If I build James Deans "lil Bastard around a bolt that was left over from the crash does that make it the real thing too? In my world the body shell, frame, engine, transmission and rear-end is the LEAST amount of parts that need to be present to say it's the original restored vehicle. Anything else is a shell game wrapped in a nice package to make someone feel better.
Clone vs. Recreation? Again, I have a cursed bolt from 'Lil Bastard guess I can recreate it.
Putting all the management/marketing crap aside......
The car is an awesome piece of craftsmanship, the boys at the shop obviously put their heart and soul into it and should be proud.
Regarding the show and it's ability to project what happens there, editing can make lots of things stand out good or bad but for me it was seeing ownership ask the camera "It was only one part left out of thousands but I wonder what else they forgot"......."they"?? that wasn't and editing trick. In my experience that one word tells me everything I need to know. Next time try "WE" it really is a great easy way to maintain a team atmosphere.
Not pointing out or finding fault with what they did. It is what they said about glass bodied cars and their opinion of them.
I agree. I think the Bugatti is ugly as crap to be honest BUT I totally appreciate the lineage and more importantly that the shop delivered what the customer expected. Skill and talent for sure. For me it is the choice of median and comments made about it.
That would be like me saying
"they didn't reproduce it in glass so they took the easy route. They should have gone through the trouble of making a buck, then a multi piece mold, work out how to assembly it and maintain the design/fit & finish, seams, etc. Geez ANYONE can just copy it they way the did in the 30's. Hasn't our skills had almost 100yrs to develop"?!
Hmmm that would have made me sound like an ass wouldn't it?
To discount fiberglass as impactful and a positive contribution to the hobby is crazy. If this was true then guys like Barris, Wescott and Coddington to name just a few don't count? Like their style or not you can't deny the impact on the industry and the contribution to keep it interesting and moving along.
I'm not losing any sleep over it(what the OP stated) let me tell you, I'm assuming it wasn't meant at all how it came across. Just enjoying the discussion.
My true feeling is we shouldn't as a hobby/group be bad mouthing each other and certainly not even care about what median of construction is being used if it helps further the hobby/industry along.
I hope for continued and greater success for everyone involved in the industry.
