Just looking to see what everyones opinion/suggestion would be for decent welder for projects around the garage. It's been years since I did any welding (arc welding) and I'm contemplating buying one. It will be used to do projects around the garage and eventually, with practice, mock up a vehicle frame.
So here's the questions ... Am I best to go with a MIG welder or an arc welder? What is the best value for the money? I don't want to break the bank. My garage is wired for 240v.
I have a few welders, but my favorite is my old Miller Migmatic 185- it's a 220 V that i bought in the mid 80s. I've gone through many large spools of wire with it, trouble free- just upgrading the torch cable assembly to a heavy duty Hobart unit.
I used to switch to the smaller.023 wire for thin stuff like body metal, but have since set up another 110 V MIG dedicated to body metal.
-- Edited by Fordy Acres Car Farm on Sunday 20th of October 2013 08:40:47 AM
__________________
"If I could get back all the money I've ever spent on cars...I'd spend it ALL on cars !!!
I have a Miller 185/220 and a tombstone welder that was probably 40 years old when I bought it 30 years ago. The cables are switched from hole to hole to raise or lower the amperage. The miller is great for most stuff but when you really have to dig the ol' tombstone is just great!
Hey Glen how's the therma arc working out for you. I was looking at a triple...mig /tig/plasma
Like the others, I prefer my MIG over my arc welder. I bought the Forney Cougar Cub 130 arc welder new in the mid 70's. It has the copper windings and will lay down a clean neat bead. Depending on the rod and settings, it will give a good deep root weld, nice stitch and/or fillets. It handles hardfacing with no problems and can produce the nicest looking cap weld with good ol' 7014. I won't part with it because it has it's place and can do things the MIG won't without a lot of hassle.
MY MIG is a Canox Migmatic 200 industrial (Miller made it and Canox sold them under their name and colors) with a 20 ft Bernard stinger and 35 thou copper coat wire using a C25 gas. Bought this one in 1986 as it came off a 6 week lease. It was brand new, and the deal was if the company got the contract they would buy it, if not it would be returned. They had 4 people wanting it, I happened to be at the front of the line and snapped it up as soon as it available. In 1986 it was $2600. new. I picked it up for $1800. and that included a 1 year contract for the gas. Been grinning ever since. Canox is long gone, but all the other welding suppliers rent/lease as well, check it out, you might find a good used one to your liking and save a few bucks to boot.
MIG will spot weld, rosette, stitch, lay a bead and do it with excellent results without the slag and clean up required by an arc welder. This seems to be one of the most desirable traits the MIG has and is why everybody likes them so much. Splatter is generally a minor issue with a MIG, and if needed, the spray cans of tip spray can be used on the work surface to keep the splatter from sticking. A quick swipe and wipe with a rag and area is clean and splatter free. The fact that you can spot weld light gauge panels with minimum warp is a big hit with the auto hobby group. It's been said it's because the MIG produces a cold weld. Nope not correct at all. So before the diehards get their big girl panties in a bunch....think about this. The spot weld operation is done fast, the heat affected zone (HAZ) is small, the heat has to be hot and concentrated in order to produce this function. A "cold" weld example would be oxy/acetylene. The required time for the area to heat up to the molten state is so long that the HAZ area is huge and causes extensive warping as it cools. You can go to small with a MIG welder, get something that will meet or even better exceed what you think your going to tackle. Like anything else, more ability costs more money, you'll have to sort that one out with what you can spend. That's my opinion on the topic...be it good or bad Best of luck.
My Miller is a Cannox as well, but I was thinking nobody would know what it was, and since it was made by Miller I went with it. Still runs like a top like a good 35 year old welder should!!
__________________
"If I could get back all the money I've ever spent on cars...I'd spend it ALL on cars !!!
arc is fine if you are building a ........... nah, there aint nothin (ive come across) my mig cant do (hobart betamig 200). i gave my arc away when i bought my mig and ive never missed it.
What would be a good brand to go with , and what should I stay away from. I really don't want to spend $1000 on a welder that I will use only a few times.
Just picked up a millermatic 211 24 gage to 3/8 plate range and it all most makes welding enjoyable. was a toss up between this one and the therma ark 3 in 1 .The miller was on sale for what you would pay for a used machine.. If your a really good welder you could get away with one of the smaller units but Iv tryed a few and they just piss me off. no mater what brand you get I dont think Id go below 180 amp with gas they tend to be a lot more forgiving then the small ones
Agree with slim, Best weldor i see around and have used is my son's 180 amp Lincoln with argon, great little weldor, very reliable, and i see them on sale at times for around $599.00 or less possibly.
180 amp is good for most unless you are going to be welding heavy plate.
Sorry forgot, if you have limited funds like most of us, the old standby 225 amp Lincoln stick welders are still a good unit, and you can find them cheap used, they sold thousands of them for years. They're just everywere.
What would be a good brand to go with , and what should I stay away from. I really don't want to spend $1000 on a welder that I will use only a few times.
Thanks for all the help and info.
Well, mostly it would depend on what you are welding. So many that are disappointed in equipment they buy, weren't being realistic about their needs or simply didn't match their needs with the equipment's capability. Do your homework and be honest about short term projects and possible bigger projects you might take on in the future.
Miller seems to be the consensus from many of the posters above, but Eastwood often has some decent machines at killer sale prices. For limited use it might be worth looking into one of these which will almost certainly be half the cost of a Miller or Lincoln, Hobart Etc... For frames and anything structural I would definitely step up to the 220V MIG, but seriously, if you are truly only going to use it a few times, would it not be cheaper and safer to just pay a pro or experienced amateur/hobbiest to do it for you?
__________________
"If I could get back all the money I've ever spent on cars...I'd spend it ALL on cars !!!
i have a sparkler 220 arc made by cannox for the serious stuff and a millermatic 130 (basically the biggest 110 that they sold) that i use for everything else. best little small machine that i've ever come across.
__________________
There are 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Spend the grand or more It will last you the rest of your life and if you need to sell you will recoup most of your cost.You are fairly young compared to most of us . so listen up and don't do the same stupid things we did the only good thing about cheap tools are they are cheap. Look on kijij and 9 out of 10 of the welders on there are from the great big tire or similar units that will cause you nothing but grief and the cheap ass that bought it wants to share the pain. If you buy the cheap one remember to unplug it before you piss on it as I said don't do the stupid things we did
Miller bought Hobart a few years back basically the same machine less the auto options. voltage setting are not infinite, no auto feed adjustment for wire , Dick never said what model it was but 220 starts at 140 amp. A little more fiddling but the price is right
MIG is the poorest weld you can do, its not a pressure weld or even structural, depending on what you are doing i mostley arc anything i need to be strong and MIG sheet metal. tig is even better but time consuming and not cheap.
MIG is the poorest weld you can do, its not a pressure weld or even structural, tig is even better but time consuming and not cheap.
going off memory here but i dont believe the NHRA allows (or has for many many years) arc welded cars/chassis. mig/tig yes.
my hatred (yup, pretty strong word but its true) for arc welding stems from the need to chip and brush the flux off and the fact that the rod starts off a foot long (or whatever it is), makes getting into tight spots kinda hard. i wasnt kidding when i said i gave away my arc welder back in the eighties and i have honestly never missed it.
made trailers, tube chassis, roll cages etc and never had a failure.
arc welding is an art i guess some cannot master, im a pressure welder so i roll a bit different, i seriousley doubt the nhra would allow mig welded cages, unless they want to kill off drivers, some high amp migs can do good welds but for most consumer rigs, they no good.
There is no such thing as approved welder, its approved process. So no stitch welding roll bars.
Arc welding is generally for outside welding, most inside production welding on carbon steel is mig, some tig. Nascar cars are all mild steel and mig'd.
There is a lot of flux core mig for outside structural as well.
All I can say is try to get a mig that has enough power for what you want to weld. A 110 mig is rated around 1/8" gas and close to 5/16" flux core. I welded a car trailer with a 110 mig using flux core, was a canadiantire Lincoln.
For me I'm looking for a dual voltage mig so its portable.
welding must be approved MIG wire feed or TIG heliarc process
They are talking about the process not the machine. preheat , post heat ,filler , flood gas ,fit and more that is needed to insure a good structural weld. I'm sure they limit the chrome molly to tig because of the filler wire and the metals reaction to the heat. But I'm No professional welder just another hack.
There is no such thing as approved welder, its approved process. So no stitch welding roll bars.
Arc welding is generally for outside welding, most inside production welding on carbon steel is mig, some tig. Nascar cars are all mild steel and mig'd.
There is a lot of flux core mig for outside structural as well.
All I can say is try to get a mig that has enough power for what you want to weld. A 110 mig is rated around 1/8" gas and close to 5/16" flux core. I welded a car trailer with a 110 mig using flux core, was a canadiantire Lincoln.
For me I'm looking for a dual voltage mig so its portable.
Hobart 210 or miller 211 both come with MVP multi voltage plug . power cord screws into a 110 or 220 plug adapter that plugs into the wall . Takes about a minute to change . I would think others are offering it to.
not much to say other than buy your own smaller gas tank if you don't see a lot of usage. about 2-3 yrs after i bought mine they started charging tank rental fees. i just bought my own smaller tank and might have exchanged it twice, maybe, in a years time. its a miller 2 plus something. haven't used the arc since.
I've got both a Miller stick, and a Milermatic 200 mig. Grew up welding with a stick, and use it 99% of the time, cuz I can't get used to that big dam tip on the mig. It's always right where you want to see. Been told to tip one way etc. but just grab the stick. Not sayin it's better, just sayin that it works good for me.
-- Edited by parklane on Monday 21st of October 2013 10:02:02 PM
__________________
If brains were wire, some couldn't short circuit a firefly.
I still fire my ESAB smash weld 180 with a 10 foot Bernard wand almost daily. Bought it from my brothers body shop 23 years ago just before I was married . It was 8-9 years old then.. Paid $2800 for it new and I gave $900 for it when I took it over. I was more than happy with buying it as I had also put the most time in on it when it was his as well???Built car trailers both open and closed, many ramp trucks ,tow trucks and hundreds of restoration projects in that time.. Going to be sticking a lot more together with it still ahead... My other welder is an oxy-acetylene set , nice small Victor set for hammer welding chopped tops etc..
__________________
Buying selling and trading garage toys and big kid stuff.
My welder, mentioned earlier, is a Hobart Model 175
It has five amperage settings from 30 to 175 amps and has infinite wire speed control.
It is a good welder.
And Mr. Fastax, I have no idea what you think you are talking about.
I welded for a living for many years at Timberjack in Woodstock and had all four tickets.
The mig welder that you used must have been a very poor one.
With my welder, I could butt weld 3/8 plate and have a bead that was as good as a stick welder.
I never had the welds I did with it x-rayed, but I bet they would have passed.
I believe you are living in the past, the racing sanctioning bodies know what they are talking about when they write specifications and rules.
actually i do know what im talking about so listen up, i doubt northernratrodder wants to go out and spend the coin to get a mig machine that can do the quality of an arc welder, there is no comparison. i would never do anything with a mig that i would count on to be strong as an arc weld. now i am very pleased with the mig machine i recently bought as it is great for body metal, but thats all i would ever use it for. arc is no where near as easy as mig and that is why people tend to dislike arc welding. arc is also more economical then a mig but once again it depends on what you are doing. welding frames with a mig? no way hosay!
wow, cant say i ever expected to hear that comment from anyone, ever, anywhere ....... did i mention ever?
heyyyyyy, wait a minute .......... is it april first already?
hahhhaahahaaaaa, got say, you did have me going (i know when someones pulling my leg ..... hey, woah, NOT that one ...... good god your hands are cold)
I guess fatstax thinks that the automated wire welders that all the equipment manufacturers like Caterpillar, John Deere etc. all have the wrong equipment and should go back to stick welders.
From these wire welders the mig was derived.
Let's get serious, Fatstax, I am really wondering what you actually know or perhaps you are smoking or drinking a little too much.
Keep an eye on kijiji. This is a good time of year for folks "Cleaning out the shop"
Any brand name 220v MIG (175+) will do almost anything you would throw at it. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart and ESAB. Big names you will see pop up on kijiji. The more toys you can get with the purchase the better, spool gun for alum, tank, carts etc.
There are a few times that the bigger MIG's pop up, Miller 250, Lincoln 255 and ESAB 250 they can be had for a song if you are quick. Seems this time of year unfortunately shops are closing their doors and the equipment goes up for sale.
__________________
Tbucket build pics:Build Tbucket build pics continued: Build And even more: Build
The MIG process is quite a strong weld and much more repeatable and user friendly than ARC too. I worked in a factory for over 20 years that manufactures truck wheels, it's the only thing they do. From 16" eight lug right up to 24" X 13.25" cement truck and military wheels. Big rigs, fire trucks, 53' container trailers and heavy duty military trucks with thicker steel wheels all rolling on MIG welded stuff! Afraid of the strength of MIG welding? Best to stay off the 401 - the rolling death traps have got to number in the 100,000s and possibly millions!!!
Of course, the key to ANY welding process is setting up the equipment. In our factory, the lab would analyze a cross section of our welds for approval before a production run could proceed. Often we'd have to change the angle of the torch head, speed or slow the wire feed or adjust the amperage to get a perfect 'nugget' (penetration).
__________________
"If I could get back all the money I've ever spent on cars...I'd spend it ALL on cars !!!
Keep an eye on kijiji. This is a good time of year for folks "Cleaning out the shop"
Any brand name 220v MIG (175+) will do almost anything you would throw at it. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart and ESAB. Big names you will see pop up on kijiji. The more toys you can get with the purchase the better, spool gun for alum, tank, carts etc.
There are a few times that the bigger MIG's pop up, Miller 250, Lincoln 255 and ESAB 250 they can be had for a song if you are quick. Seems this time of year unfortunately shops are closing their doors and the equipment goes up for sale.
I thought my post trying to sell my welder was a real good buy for someone, it is a good welder with self darkening helmet and a heavy duty extension cord with 220 volt plugs, along with the cart for the welder.
I can not offer a tank, most tanks are rented but you can buy one quite reasonable if you only use the welder occasionally.
Good luck on kijiji, I think mine is more honest and reliable.
some of you should get out the reading glasses, i know that there are rather large and quite expensive mig machines that can weld pretty much anything, but people like us dont have endless money to buy such massive equipment, im stating that with what most people use for welding most 220 volt mig machines in my opinion cant weld as good as a similiar amp arc, sure one can go out and spend 5000 dollars on a mig machine that will weld as good or better than an arc, but for a fraction of that cost i can weld it better with stick plus no wire feed to break, shielding gas tank to go empty or weak duty cylcle to reach, all i worry about is running out of welding rods
I'm willing to bet when Miller and Lincoln list what thickness the mig can weld it has passed strict testing at that thickness.
A 110 volt mig is rated 1/8" when using gas but they can be up to 5/16 using flux core wire which is just like stick welding. 220 volt low end with 200 amp is 3/8 gas. Might as well have one machine that can do clean welds on thin sheet metal and turn it up for clean welds on frames. If you like stick might as well have a tig and stick weld with it. I burn the odd rod at work when I'm bored, the HF tig you don't even need to scratch start.
I think you are a bit out of line on price. I'm looking at an invoice 23 sept/13 now this is overkill for your average home user. 24 gage to 3/8 plate in one pass solid or flux core 110 220 plug change in less then a minute, gas bottle 11 lb wire reel, all new ,all miller 1426.40 + HST more then most hobby user will ever need portable even with the gas cylinder one guy could lift this . Fool Prof instructions that produces nice welds that someone with little skill could use. A far cry from 5 grand
Best of luck.
the only good thing about cheap tools are they are cheap. Look on kijij and 9 out of 10 of the welders on there are from the great big tire or similar units that will cause you nothing but grief and the cheap ass that bought it wants to share the pain. 