1938 Dodge D8 4d sedan project

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

1938 Dodge D8 4d sedan project

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

May - October, 2013

First few weeks I just removed the wheels and started to disassemble the interior to see in what kind of shape the car really was.

And a bit more rust than I expected. But the frame seemed to be really solid which was a big bonus. Only 3 dead mice were found. The interior smelled quite bad.

More work with the interior disassemble and also trying to remove the doors. Rust goes all the way to the door hinges and window pillars so work is getting quite slow.

The sheet metal work is starting. First one is the rear passenger side fender. The inner fender is really rusty and the real fender is welded to the body and the whole side is warped a bit. So I cut it open.

Should have replaced more sheet metal but maybe next time. I bought a cheap flux mig welder and it works but end result is not pretty. Well, not sure if welding rusty sheet metal produces a nice weld anyhow. Won't be a show car and will be better than it was a while ago.

Some areas are quite tricky since both sides are pretty much gone and no pictures found what it should look like. I just did what I thought it should have been.

My metal working tools are quite basic.

Bought my first new parts, the body bushings and new hardware. Better replace those now when it's still easy. Got also a new wiring set and decided to convert to 12V system.

Had to put some color on the new pieces since they started to have some surface rust. Used just some self etching primer for now. Looks much better already.

Decided to remove the front piece as well, it was easiest to remove the whole thing as a package, quite heavy. The radiator alone is like 50 lbs.

Found from Ancaster second swap I went a set of Plymouth -37 tail light buckets and they are really close to original so I will use those. Got also some vacuum wiper motors but not sure yet if I replace with electric ones since I decided to move to 12V system anayways.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

November - December, 2013

Not much was done Nov - Dec. I had to make some room to garage for my second car so welding is on hold until the weather gets to plus figures.

Started to tear down the steering system and the front suspension, and the front brakes. Nice change to all the rusty sheet metal and welding/grinding work. What a interesting piece of design the whole front suspensions and steering.

Brake drums were stucked but then read the service manual a bit more and found out the major brake shoe setting, after that got them out.

First real problem, one of the bolts broke when removing the front axle. That bolt attaches the sway eliminator bracket to the front axle. The bolt broke so that not sure I can weld anything to that, or should I drill it and try bolt extractor screws or what. On hold now.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

January, 2014

New year and more energy.

I had read some horror stories about removing the rear brake drums and the hubs. I was thinking about buing the OTC 7394 hub puller, but then went to the parts store and they loaned me a hub puller, not really heavy duty but what the heck, I can try it.

It was so easy, 20 min and both sides were out, I didn't need a hammer or even an extension to my short breaker bar. Lucky huh!

I removed the drive shaft and started to tear down the rear brakes. Everything was well lubed from the rear end oil so was quite easy to remove the brake parts. I really need to replace all rear end seals.

Started to think about new springs front and back, all the leafs are tired and some critical ones are broken. In the front the issue is that the springs are quite different to each other. One side is shorter and the other has more leafs. Got some reference measurements from a guy in US. Interesting spring shackle system, never seen before. Waiting for some info from a Canadian reseller for Eaton Detroit Springs if they know the original specs. Hoping to get the car a bit lower.

That was the last one for a while, I promise

Ziggy · TRENTON, ONT

Looks like your off to a good start! Them springs must weigh a far bit too!

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Ziggy!

Yes, once I get the rear springs out I'm quite happy. Everything is pretty heavy, rusty but real steel...

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

January, 2014 (cont.)

Managed to remove the rear end and the rear leaf springs from the car during the weekend. Sounds simple but it really was a lot of work because everything was so rusty and stuck.

Most of the problems I had were with the rear spring shackles which were stuck pretty solid in the frame brackets. After few days of heat treatment with my small propane torch and some WD-40 rust penetrate I finally got them moving with a sledge hammer, and got them finally out as well.

And pretty happy that I didn't cause any more damage to the frame brackets which can be saved. Only the leaf spring plates are usable from the rear suspension parts removed, everything else is pretty much gone. Well, perhaps also the shock mounts can be used unless I find the new/better ones.

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Great bunch of pics Hannu, thanks for posting the update.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks for your comments Sasquatch.

I was just so happy to finally "complete" the disassembly, well some engine/transmission mounts are left and the engine itself is a different story but all the suspension/steering/brakes are on the floor now, and the body and frame are detached as well.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Love the pics Hannu.
Keep em coming.....and have fun.

Janice

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Janice, much appreciated.

slab · BRANT COUNTY, ONT

nice work!

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks slab

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Good build with lots of pictures !! Keep em coming.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Hemi43, will do

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

January, 2014 (cont.)

A bit cold in the garage so not much has been done.

However, I did manage to tear down the sway eliminator assembly.

Any ideas how to remove that broken bolt?? I tried to weld a nut to that but doesn't stick good enough with my welder.

Here is a picture with the bench seats back in the car.

Not sure what to do with the colors inside the car, most likely dark gray and at least not this original brown.

Removed the seat rails and emptied the bottom section.

Well, never seen a king pin setup before so I had to take a closer look...

Is there any company / anyone in Mississauga who could install the new king pins and hone / ream the new bushings?

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Did you get the broken bolt out?

They can be an interesting challenge at times. I'd try heating the housing, not red hot,,just good and warm, then keep soaking it in penetrating oil, (Not WD-40, that is a waste of effort,) and get a left hand drill bit, be sure to have the drill started dead center of the bolt, then go up in size, (say from 1/4 to 1/2 then to a size close to the OD of the bolt.
Take your'e time, do not rush this, (you don't want a broken off drill bit in the broken off bolt!)
Often the left hand drill bit will begin backing the bolt out as the torque biting into the bolt as it cuts, along with creating a bit more heat from drilling will break the rust around the threads.
Don't know if this is a through bolt or is it bottomed out in a blind hole?
If it is a through bolt, usually you can just drill it right through, and get very close to the OD of the bolt threads, then often the remaining thread slivers can be picked out by a sharp pick, and patience. Then re-tap the hole cleaning up the threads.
Patience is the key in these extractions.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Thanks for the posts, yes looks pretty cold in your shop, This is the coldest winter I can remember for about 25 years..but not long now and the sun will shinning it's Vitamin "C" all over us...You might consider checking out a couple vans to get some decent comfortable modern seats that will fit right into that car and be way much more comfy..I am sure any machine shop can install ,ream and fit those pins.. with that abour press you have you could them yourself and just get them reamed if they need to be..

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

On another note readind rays post..best penatrating oil I ever used is good old Coke-a-cola..soak that sucker in coke for a couple day and you be able to turn that sucker with an easy out..and mabe a little heat with-out damaging the threads..

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks guys for the ideas!

The bolt is still there. I normally use WD-40 rust penetrate and for everything else it's been working quite nicely, and much better than the normal WD-40. I can try Coke as well, I have also used CLR for some bolts but seems to help only if some small surface rust.

I have a small propane torch and been warming that piece (and myself) now for few weeks. I tried to drill a hole to the bolt but my drill bits only scratch the surface, I got some new cobalt drill bits yesterday so let's see if I get something going. It's a blind hole so a bit more tricky. It has also a UNF fine thread and would like to save that.

I usually have patience but let's see what happens with this one.

About the king pins, I may try to change those myself and was looking for a hand reamer in the ebay the other day. Actually the king pins were quite good even now, just a bit of extra movement. The bearing was bad in both sides but that comes in a new king pin replacement kit. Just thinking is it a must to change the bushings if the new king pin can be reamed to the old bushing fine?

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Oh, and about the seats. I was thinking about the modern seats but not sure yet. It would be cheaper to buy good condition leather seats (front and back) from a newer car than replace the upholstery on the current bench seats. The current beach seat cushions and frames are in good shape now, and would only need new seat covers. And, I kind of like the original look, but let's see.

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Hey Hannu

Where in Mississauga are you located? I am at cawthra and lakeshore ,I can give you a hand with those king pins

also have oxy and acyl if you want to heat up your broken bolt will send you a pm

hemi43 · ONTARIO

dodge38 wrote:
Just thinking is it a must to change the bushings if the new king pin can be reamed to the old bushing fine?

It's not the pin that gets honed, its the bushings. You wont find the proper diameter reamer, because more than likely the ID of the bushing will be an odd size. I reamed a set of bushing for one of the members here using an adjustable reamer, but it was a PITA because the reamer was too short. Honing seems to be the best procedure.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Joe, that sounds great, thanks for the help offer !!

I'm only like 5 min from you, at Cawthra and Bloor St corner.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Dan, yes that's what I tried to say also but wrote then something else... thanks for the clarification.

I think this should be the correct reamer for my case:
www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Plymouth-Mopar-1934-1956-King-Pin-51-64-Reamer-/290606091377

And, I have also read that honing would be better and longer lasting method.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Cool looking reamer. It's obviously made for that purpose so it's gotta work. IMO I would still get it honed by a machine shop. By the time you get that reamer to your door, it will have cost you more than what the machine shop would charge, and more than likely you'll never use that reamer again.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

I agree... however, might need the reamer for a Dodge 38 truck and/or a coupe later in the futur, but only if I finish this car first (says my wife)...

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Hey Hannu

check this ad number on kijiji 554427173

or type in 1938 dodge and look for front end joe mac

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

why are dodges so bass ackwards? I put a set of pins and bushings in the rat truck and they pressed in and fit the pins perfect I think any pin kit you would buy today would be pre fit, no machining needed

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Joe, great meeting you today, and big thanks again for your help! I still can't believe you managed to remove the bolts and saved the thread as well!

That Kijiji add I have seen before but have ignored that for some reason. Thanks for reminding about it. Need to ask for the price and if the springs are any good.

Fatstax, you may be right and it could be easy like that. I'll get the new king pins and bushings and we'll check with Joe if any reaming is needed.

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Nice to meet you as well Hannu, only to glad to be able to help out and get you moving

forward on your project again. The front end would be a hard sell I think ,also 3 hour drive to fetch it.

talk again soon joe mac

Bruce Rossiter · TORONTO, ONT

dodge38 wrote:
Dan, yes that's what I tried to say also but wrote then something else... thanks for the clarification.

I think this should be the correct reamer for my case:
www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Plymouth-Mopar-1934-1956-King-Pin-51-64-Reamer-/290606091377

And, I have also read that honing would be better and longer lasting method.

If you're not in too much of a rush, I could probably hone the bushings in 2 or 3 weeks from now.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Bruce, I'm not is a hurry, I still need to order the new King pins.

I'll PM you if it looks like the bushings need honing, thanks for the offer!

Dave Scott · ANCASTER, ONT

I just bought and fitted a new kingpin set myself. Got the kit from speedway, very reasonable price, and I have a US address in Niagara, so postage is cheap too. I looked for a reaming tool in Canadian tire, but no luck there. A friend did it on his big machine at a reasonable rate, and is much better as you really want both ends honed at the same time to make sure the kingpin sits straight.

Good luck with the broken bolt. Can't advise on anything more than has been said, it's my least favourite problem to solve, lol.

-- Edited by Dave Scott on Monday 27th of January 2014 01:24:31 PM

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Dave, no problems with the bolts anymore, Joe removed the bolt pieces from the front axle and sway eliminator yesterday!

The king pins I'll order from Andy Bernbaum, Dodge size not available from all the shops but the price is not that bad. If the fit is not good then I decide if we use an adjustable reamer, I buy an Dodge size reamer, or honing.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

It's been a while since the last update, too cold in my garage... but I'm really fortunate to be able use Joe's garage for some of the work, been mainly cleaning and painting some of the suspension pieces.

I bought a "new" front axle and springs from the Kijiji ad Joe mentioned earlier. I got half decent set of leaf springs and a disk brake setup.

That actually partly solved my king pin problems. Seems like Canadian Dodge models use needle bearings instead of the bushings in the upper spindle hole for the kingpin, and the bearing ID is 51/61" which no-one makes anymore. In the new front end I bought there is home-made bushings which are in good condition so I'll use those and the new kingpins I got.

Also finally I spent a little bit time with the engine. Removed the manifolds and the valve covers. Looks a bit dirty inside the engine so need to take it apart and clean it at least. Good thing is that the engine turns easily.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Looks great . cant believe i have missed this thread until now. as far as the king pin bushings go any precision ground shafting or chrome shafting normally comes 1/2 a thou under size so the reamer would be on size. Just checked my NOS ford 32-34 king pin set and the pin measures .8117 left and right so a 13/16 ream would finish it with .0004 wall clearance. checked my 57 chev king pin set and the pin measures .8655 so the proper 22 mm ream will finish it with.0003 wall clearance. I can't see Dodge being any different.... The pressed in bushing should be fine as long as you can get grease to the pin .What did the new axle come off ? nice score if its the same track width R&P would make steering a lot easier.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Slim!

The new axle came from a Dodge 38 coupe so it's the same axle even. But I wasn't planning to use the R&P piece yet, I want to feel the original steering first, perhaps later

But I'll use the disk brake setup and the modified spindles, they had the bronze bushings with the grease grooves/holes already so that's fine and the new kingpins have proper clearance so I'm fine now.

I have yet to identify what the disks/spindles/calibers are from, 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern is all I know now.

Also managed to combine all the leafs I have now for a decent set of front springs.

derekgcarr · LINDSAY, ONT

excellent work
nice to see another 4 door project
kinda helps motivate me a little more

thanks for the updates

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks Derek! Yeah, I'm happy that I'm not the only one building a 4 door car smile

I took the disk brakes apart and seems like they are from a late B/E body Mopar like 1974 Dodge Charger. Both the disks and the calipers seem to be okay, just need to replace the pads and seals etc.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

I think this is what you have

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Your Price:	$29.95
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Reman Friction Choice Caliper
Part Number: 18-4063
Manufacturer: CARDONE / A-1 CARDONE

Vehicle: 1975 PLYMOUTH ROADRUNNER V8-318ci 5.2L 2 BBL Vin G

otes: Front ; Right ; Installation Hardware Incld ; w/Metal Piston ; w/Pin;Type Caliper ; 1 Per Veh; Years:1975-1978

-- Edited by slim on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 09:53:22 AM

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Modle	Engine	Type	Year
CHRYSLER	CORDOBA	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	76-75
DODGE	CHARGER	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	78-73
DODGE	CORONET	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	76-73
DODGE	MONACO	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	78-77
PLYMOUTH	FURY	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	78-74
PLYMOUTH	FURY I	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	1974
PLYMOUTH	FURY II	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	1974
PLYMOUTH	FURY III	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	1974
PLYMOUTH	ROADRUNNER	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	75-73
PLYMOUTH	SATELLITE	All	Disc Brake Caliper - FRONT LEFT	1974

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Yes, that's the one, thanks Slim!

Joe already told me that you would know this

derekgcarr · LINDSAY, ONT

any updates on this one Fella ?

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks for asking Derek... Not too much progress, but some

I got the front leafs finally ready and painted, also painted the front brake parts. Started with the rear leafs and found 6 leafs broken, need to add few "new" ones. Bought the new u bolts and center bolts and also some spring clamps. Also cut open the frame on the driver side and a bit more rust than I thought but not too bad job to fix No pics yet, will add later.

Went to Ancaster swap a week ago and bought the gasket set so could tear down the engine some day.

123pugsy · MARKHAM, ONT

Looking good Hannu.

Keep the updates coming.

derekgcarr · LINDSAY, ONT

nice work bud keep at it

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks guys!

Few pics here.

Quite happy with the front springs now, need to bend the u-bolts still for these, got the u-bolts and new shackles for the rear already.

This is the front frame rust spot in the drivers side. Didn't remove the engine yet so I needed to add some support under it.

Painted the brake calipers and disks a bit, they look a bit rough still but I think the disks will be fine after some sanding.

I got the rear springs sorted out as well today, Joe's warehouse had some spare leafs so have I have full set now. Cleaned them already so just waiting for some paint later this weekend I hope.

-- Edited by dodge38 on Thursday 10th of April 2014 11:58:03 PM

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

Dug out the old rear fenders yesterday and took some pics. I hope they're in better shape then what you have, they need some straightening and a couple small patches.

The driver's side is the worst, but the pictures make it look worst than it is.

Front edge, rolled in,

Dent in the top of fender,

Rear lwr portion, kinked, also hole by filler.

Looking at driver's side, down the fender, (it looks worst than it is),

Now the passenger side,

A small rusted section was cut out, at the rear corner,

Front lwr corner, also rolled in,

Over all, they are quite workable,

By the way, Jari is just pulling your leg, when he says, to be prepared to junk them, after the meet. We did a really nice job, saving my pick up's, right fender, with the spare tire cavity last year.

dodge38 · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Thanks for the pics Gilles!

Those definately have more original material than mine especially where connected to body. I think I could use those.

I'll send you a PM.