While getting coil/plugs changed at garage they informed me .....they broke a plug

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

While getting coil/plugs changed at garage they informed me .....they broke a plug

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

What truck type , year , motor Newer ford 2pc break all the time

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

True enough Slim
2000 dodge Ram with 5.9 magnum.

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

We have two different tools for taking out each plug on Fords (We do mostly Diesels anyway)

Dodge are so powerfull you only need 7 cylinders anyway Warm weather is coming

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

theres a kit you buy after you dig out the plug, it taps out the aluminum head and inserts a new thread. ive done a few fords as the plugs break a lot but not a dodge as of yet. getting the old plug out, well ive used an easy out and did a lot of praying, I like the spiral easy outs as opposed to the hammer in style. buy good ones though, the can tire ones don't last.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

if it broke below the hex and the insulator came out in one peace , spray it with acetone and transmission fluid let it sit and use an easy out in the hole . don't force it may have to heat and soak a few times. best case depending on how it broke and what parts came out.

BARRIE, ONTARIO

did it break off in the head . we used to take the small gas welding tip , heat it up till a bit red , then drive in a square edge easy out , let it cool right down an spin it out ,
of course if the insulator is still in side there that could be a different story
I,ve started the engine , then use a small sharp chisel and care fully chisel out the insulator ,the compression will blow the chunks out of the hole . safety glasses cause when that puppy comes out its gonna come out fast , ha ha ..77.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Ya.....sad part of it Is, The truck was sold. the guy was coming tomorrow to get it!
Didn't have time, or a warm shop to do it at my place. I'm pretty sure I could have done this all by myself. without paying someone to brake it for me.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

porcelain and everything else is out. Just thread now stuck. Truck wont start now!

Guess I now have my weekend planned for me.

-- Edited by janies dirty 37 on Friday 14th of February 2014 12:18:05 AM

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Why wont it start Its only missing a plug.

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

slim wrote:
Why wont it start Its only missing a plug.

I was wondering the same thing Slim. It's not recomended to drive it with a cylinder missing for fear of fouling/damaging the catalytic converter or an O2 sensor, but you should be able to run it long enough to heat the block without doing any real damage IMO.

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

janies dirty 37 wrote:
Ya.....sad part of it Is, The truck was sold. the guy was coming tomorrow to get it!
Didn't have time, or a warm shop to do it at my place. I'm pretty sure I could have done this all by myself. without paying someone to brake it for me.

sad but true. good luck

flatblack55delivery · PORT HOPE, ONT

We went thru this on The Boys car last year.Patience is the only way .Soak it and make sure nothing falls into the cylinder.Wonder what is up with plugs now a days rusting and brakeing all the time. Ed

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

I think its because they are never taken out....They are supposed to last 160,000km these days

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Exactly, left in there way too long, no wonder they sieze!

hemi43 · ONTARIO

poncho62 wrote:
I think its because they are never taken out....They are supposed to last 160,000km these days

The problem is the small diameter and those damn tapered seats. Very rarely will the old style 13/16 plugs with the gaskets let you down.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

We run into that fairly often..One would expect that "car people" of all the people would know not to leave the plugs in for years and then blame the mechanic for breaking them hmm

I was expecting it to be the Ford POS 5.4 engine.. disbelief Usually on that engine I quote about 8 hrs to replace the plugs with customers that have not had them replaced or inspected with in the last 8 or so months. They require special tooling, trickery, prayer and patience. On the Dodge 5.9 or the 5.2 I have not had a big issue other than with customers who do not do proper maintenance. I can usually pull the wheel and inner fender to access the plug I have been able to insert a bolt into the hex portion of the plug left in the threads and get in with my mig to get it tacked and then turn the remaining part of the plug out..Slow and steady wins the race on this operation but it has allways worked for me..and before I would crank the engine I use air to blow the cyl debris out and then I duck-tape a piece of clear plastic tubing to my shop vac to make certain I have gotten any debris left in the cyl removed..But it's is not the mechanics fault, it's the owners fault for never changing the damn things..and the manufacturers for misleading unknowledgable owners into a false sense that you never have to replace the plugs, they need to come out at least once a year ..It's allways easier to blame the mechanic when the customer doesn't take responsibilty for maintaining his POS...being a mechanic does not mean we are magicians although in many cases we are expected to be it does how-ever require patience and a knowledge in the proper words and position you hold your mouth when using those words....In the last few years we do not see as many problems with that with the Iridium plugs..

Sniper · WATFORD, ONT

The taper style extractor and even the left hand threaded type have a tendency to expand the broken piece and make it tighter. The plumbing trade has an extractor that works a bit differently. They are used for broken pipe ends and fittings where the piece has broken off flush or below the surface. They also expand, but only at two points making the broken piece go oval and breaking loose much quicker. The tool is lightly tapped in place with a hammer, as it's turned an eccentric collar wedges the tool in place and bites onto the inside of the threaded portion that's being removed. Know any plumbers in the area that might have one to help out?

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

I agree 100% chuck. Big problems down the road if you don't. But thanks for the bare bum power spanking hmm lol

The "car guy" my daughter bought the truck off of should have changed them for sure.

After she bought it, we were going over the truck, (It has 200000kms on it) I noticed that they were ancient. The guy probably never changed them!!

So I showed her how they should look when she helped me change the plugs on my 14 yr old Ford 5.4 with almost 400000kms on it and you can bet your azz I didn't get that far with it and not maintain/or change plugs in it

My shop is not heated and I specifically sent it to the shop with the explanation that the plugs were old/well used.

Had the soak and heat probability conversation with mechanic.

He did call me and tell me he was having a hard time with one, and he didn't want to brake it. I told him to wait and I'll be over in 5 min. When I got there, he told me sorry, most of the plug is out. No soak or heat applied

As I said.....I could have yanked on them and screwed it up here in my unheated shop. Just sucks that I'm going to have to do it now anyway.

My daughter doesn't even have her G2 until the end of March and hasn't been driving it. We knew plugs needed to be changed.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

I do sniper, I'll give him a shout tonight.
Thanks much.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Every thing you need to know about broken plugs.

http://aftermarket.federalmogul.com/en-US/Technical/Documents/Spark%20Plug%20Twist%20Off.pdf

Chuck Ill have to disagree on this one. If he was warned up front. he could of turned the job down . Going at it like Jethro Bo Dean Its surprising he only broke one. If there was some sign that he took the necessary precaution's Id cut him some slack, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Its not like he wasn't warned and wasn't doing it for free . If he doesn't take pride in what he doe's maybe he should find another job.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Thanks for link Slim and good info from the rest of you.

mechanic not a bad guy. I'm sure didn't do it on purpose. But clearly he knew why it was there........If I didn't tell him......all he had to do was look to see the shape they were in and know what it was gonna take to do it right

Just made a mistake. I'm over it. Just needing to get er fixed myself now. And its damn cold out here

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Made the same mistake with a two pc drive shaft one winter . after 4 go's and blaming the shaft I ended up doing it myself. Funny that a drive shaft thats no good is still in the truck 100,000 k later

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

dang, i missed it. "But thanks for the bare bum power spankinghmm lol." snooze you loose. lol

-- Edited by shag766 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 05:52:23 AM

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

sasquatch wrote:
Exactly, left in there way too long, no wonder they sieze!

Agree 100%. Ran into this problem long ago when H E I came out. Fleet cars especially plugs were left in way too long.Patience my dear you will succeed. smile

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Like you say on this one Slim...

Chuck Ill have to disagree on this one. If he was warned up front. he could of turned the job down . Going at it like Jethro Bo Dean Its surprising he only broke one. If there was some sign that he took the necessary precaution's Id cut him some slack, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Its not like he wasn't warned and wasn't doing it for free . If he doesn't take pride in what he doe's maybe he should find another job.

Yes I have to disagree with you on this one Slim..I been cranking wrenches for 40 years and you were not there, nor was I so to blame the tech for going at it like a bull is a moot point..Those plugs turn to paper if they are left in there for 200,000ks..I have tried many times to take em out easy and still brkoe one or two.."murphy" I would never blame the tech for trying and heat and soak is fine in theory but no cigar in many cases..And being warned ??? what the hell is that supposed to mean do you think that plug that is rusted and siexed is going be afraid and come out any easier because the tech was warned..LoL biggrin ... and whether or not he was working for his wage or fro free will not scare that siezed ,rusted plug ..I have no idea why you put him down for not taking pride in his work because a rusted 10 year old plug would not come out and it broke..your way off on this one Slim..Every time I get one of these and it's more than just frozen plugs, mostly you can blame it on poor owner maintenace or no maintance from a cheap owner ..(Not blaming Janice either) but it sure as heck was not a technician problem just becuase he gave it best shot ..I am siding with the mechanic and you should know better than to make such a blatant dumb statement..

If he doesn't take pride in what he doe's maybe he should find another job...That's really dumb..I thought you were smarter than that plugs should be pulled and inspected at the very least once a year. Some people "seniors" only put 10,000ks on in a year still needs the plugs pulled just to make sure they do not get siezed pretty cheap maintenance..I never understand why people will pay upwards of $15 grand for a vehicle and then just trun the key and never do any maintenace and any trouble they have it's ALWAYS THE MECHNICS FAULT.. I been doing this so long and get pissed when the mechanic gets blamed..agreed there are a bad apples in every trade.. cry I think I am damn good mechanic but I have broken a few plugs in my time and stripped afew bolts, and sure done some other stupid things I am a human mechanic prone to failure from time to time but I do try to do my best and I bet most mechanics do as well..there way more bad politicians than mechanics and thankfully a lot less of them..Anyway I think your dead wrong on this one Slim.. smile

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

On my way to drag truck home and into garage. I'll get it out.

Wasn't looking for a debate on who's fault it was. Your right Chuck. Were all human. It happened! Chalk it up to another learning experience.

Just looking for any pointers on getting it fixed. I appreciate the good info/tips givin so its all good.

Here is a funny saying I recently heard ........

I'm not a complete idiot......some of my parts are missing biggrin

Now out to freeze my azz off. wink

-- Edited by janies dirty 37 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 12:06:07 PM

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

debates are learning experinces ..

with input and respect we can get this repaired..Janice first ..TAKE YOUR TIME ..you do not have much left in the hole so do not mess up the plug threads if you can avoid it.. I am still wondering why it won't start ? it should start with a plug missing...I don't recomend running it but it should start..which side is it on and which plug is it and did he get all the others out O.K. I recomend getting nice and comfy, pull the inner fender liner, so you can get up close and personal actually a digital pic would be helpfull to see what you got in there..for me the best luck I have is getting a bolt that fits snugly not to tight into the portion of the plug still in the threads..If you have access to a mig welder just a little tack is usually enough to turn it out ..but these things need to have a plan "B" "C" and "D' some times mostly patience and it will come out...My wife is bugging me to take her out for some stuff..but I will check back when I get in and between all the brother on here we get you throught it.. biggrin

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

He only started to remove one so he didn't change any others.

Here is pic of the plug that he removed. (also a pic beside the one I have now removed.) You can see whats missing/left inside.

Got it home and started soaking and I have another out and changed. I'll go back to remove/change the rest and the "broke" one after its had plenty of time to soak.

Which is fine.....as I when I went to get the truck, I see I now also have to replace or glue the tail light bezel back together that is now magically broke. But at least he threw the broken piece in the bed of the truck, and left the truck doors unlocked, and the key in the ignition.

-- Edited by janies dirty 37 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 03:05:32 PM

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

Janice...Dont know if you have an acetylene torch or not, but if you heat what left in there, even with a propane torch and dab some wax around there, it may penetrate it enough to get an easy out and take it out

hemi43 · ONTARIO

That was a good place for that plug to break. At least it didn't break flush !! There should be enough meat left to weld a nut on, and the heat from welding may help loosen the threads. Good luck !!

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

How about Tom across the road? (To weld a nut on it?)

(I'm thinking it won't start because it has been sitting for?)

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

The real problem was that they were champion spark plugs, Their only good for lawn mowers. biggrin This should start a rant going.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Pretty sad looking set of plugs..Easy to see why they broke, actually they did not break they are rusted completely through..be real carefull with the rest ,Poncho's suggestion of wax is worth a shot. I have done that with some success, although plugs are an animal of their own..Another thing I have had good luck with is Coke ..not Diet just reg coke..soak them in coke with a spray bottle, one thing may get one and then that might not work on the next one..Like Dan said about the bolt idea..I have had the best luck with tacking a bolt in with my mig..and they just turn out.. I have found they are not so much siezed as the plug is just rotten and rusted away and when you try to turn it out it just tears away between the hex and the threaded portion..and I have never found heat to be my friend with plugs that are that rusted..nothing is for sure ..except death, taxes, and the freakin cold this year..That part that is still in the head is pretty strong and will have some meat to it yet..they always break just exactly where yours did.. I have seen it a hundred times..and always from the owner never changing the plugs.....I have yet to have one that I couldn't get out..Run it down to me to-morrow and I will get them out for you.. wink There are certain words that I use some-times that help..I usually go out behind the barn and do a little war dance then open my yap and let a blue streak out.. then go back and try again and sometimes that has worked ..but not often does helt when I pick up that hot bolt or whack my finger with a big fat hammer..My best advice from lots of experience is to get a comfortable position to work in and patience is your best friend..unfortunately those are not the things my customer wants to hear as he just sees get comfy and patience as he is getting ripped off in his mind..I could work faster and remove the head and send out to machine shop and if he gets a bit snarky I just push it out the door and hang the key in my office till he pays me for my time

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Thanks for the offer Chuck... but with plugs that bad, I wouldn't want to drive it very far.I can't imagine the towing fee's to get it to your place. lol

I agree with the use of certain words.....and have invented a few more that really help wink .

Now that its here, I can take all the time I need to remove it. Gonna weld a bolt on whats left of the plug tomorrow and I do have lots of pepsi on stand by as well.(no coke in this house)lol

Shop is warmed up and truck is plugged in, any heat will help I think. If not the truck......then at least me.

Gonna keep spraying them every couple hours and try again tomorrow.

Stand by for swearin....oh I mean more questions smile

I've decided not to glue the tail light bezel back together. the machanic has an identical truck to this one so when I go over on Monday to pay the bill, I'll just exchange the broken one off of this one for the good one on his. But I will throw the broken piece in the bed of his truck. Im not a complete dillhole. biggrin

-- Edited by janies dirty 37 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 06:56:58 PM

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

sasquatch wrote:
How about Tom across the road? (To weld a nut on it?)

(I'm thinking it won't start because it has been sitting for?)

We were moving it around regularly to plow snow ect so it wasn't driven a lot, but was running on a regular bases. Once the plugs are changed I think it will run fine again.

Tom will be over givin his 5cents worth or if I need any tools/help I'm sure, but he hibernates as soon as the weather gets cold. I don't blame him. lol

54vicky · OAKVILLE, ONT

found when tackling the same problem.if you get comfortable as fatchuk stated and be PATIENT.what I found was soaking as you are I have used wax also.if when they start to move I just turn 1/2 turn out then turn back in.then back out a full turn turn back in.keep doing this turning further out each time.you will less likely to gall the threads.better to take the time you will know when they free up by the amount of pressure it takes to turn them.I have used all the good advice you are getting.using most I have had a couple over the years I thought I heated it and turned out without following my own advice.after a couple of turns stopped turning.to late tried tightening back in .galled the ****e out of it ,them if a head I would usually have one to replace and add the one screwed up in scrap.I sure saved time NOT being impatient.you can do it just take your time. good luck

toomuchjunk · S/W ONTARIO

Sniper wrote:
The taper style extractor and even the left hand threaded type have a tendency to expand the broken piece and make it tighter. The plumbing trade has an extractor that works a bit differently. They are used for broken pipe ends and fittings where the piece has broken off flush or below the surface. They also expand, but only at two points making the broken piece go oval and breaking loose much quicker. The tool is lightly tapped in place with a hammer, as it's turned an eccentric collar wedges the tool in place and bites onto the inside of the threaded portion that's being removed. Know any plumbers in the area that might have one to help out?

I have a set of these. I can measure them Sunday if you want.

If you think they would help I could send them to you by Canada Post.

TMJ

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Very kind tmj

I'll let ya know how I make out. smile

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

poncho62 wrote:
Janice...Dont know if you have an acetylene torch or not, but if you heat what left in there, even with a propane torch and dab some wax around there, it may penetrate it enough to get an easy out and take it out

can't remember what it was but it was seized real bad. i tried everything in my bag of tricks to no avail so i took it to an old machine shop near me. the old lad in the old shop looks it over and put it in a vice and put some heat to it slowly and then rubbed a bar of something on it a couple of times. not much longer and the piece just about fell off. the bar was wax. never seen or heard of that trick before.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Just one more little step but important..If your friend comes to use the mig-welder..Disconnect your battery ..or you could fry your computer or damage it and cause yourself more trouble..just a heads up...seems ironic here your going out to remove some frozen plugs..and I just put a load of laundry in the machine, now I am going to do my vacuming, make the bed and do the dishes while my Valentine confuse biggrin sits around in her PJs and I'm making supper.. hmm .. I am not sure if this is a good deal or not I am pretty sure I could get them plugs out..Not sure how supper will turn out disbelief .. rots-a-ruck

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

lmao
I removed the battery last night so were good there.
Heading back out to start heating.

No irony here really. Just doin what ya gotta do Chuck.

My poor hubby is renovating a bathroom he has to get finished so myself and the kids are doing laundry and cleaning house in between soaks. It sure takes a good team to get everything done and between the 4 livin in this house......we'll get it done. Might put the dogs to work here as well.

As they say....It takes a village!
Or as we say in "the River" It takes a village to raise the village idiot.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

broke one is out!

Now on to change the rest!

No hibernating neighbours were woken for this mission. lol

-- Edited by janies dirty 37 on Sunday 16th of February 2014 12:59:37 PM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Good job !!

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

That is great!!! good feeling when yah win one eh!!!!! biggrin now just careful and easy does it with the rest..bet you change your plugs more often than the previous owner of that truck..and thank you for sharing that so others who think they can leave plugs in for years get to learn from your experience..Car engines are so well controlled in to-days vehicles with onboard computers, o2 sensors, and several other onboard monitoring systems and Platinum plugs that they run pretty good for so long many people think they are maintenance free and they are pretty close, but it still is an internal combustion engine that needs love and attention

Good for you...

54vicky · OAKVILLE, ONT

good for you congrats

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

fatchuk wrote:
That is great!!! good feeling when yah win one eh!!!!! now just careful and easy does it with the rest..bet you change your plugs more often than the previous owner of that truck..and thank you for sharing that so others who think they can leave plugs in for years get to learn from your experience..Car engines are so well controlled in to-days vehicles with onboard computers, o2 sensors, and several other onboard monitoring systems and Platinum plugs that they run pretty good for so long many people think they are maintenance free and they are pretty close, but it still is an internal combustion engine that needs love and attention
Good for you...

Thanks for the "spare" bumz Chuck. I worked mine off today.....so I might borrow one of these. lmao

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Good news . now update us when you get it running.

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

Update? Are they all out and replaced? Is the truck running yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.

janies dirty 37 · SOUTH RIVER, ONT

Sorry..I thought I did...Yes. all replaced and running like a top. smile

Didn't have any problems changing the rest. Just soaked and talked nice to them.

Its all good.