Fenderless Rod ...legal in Ont ?

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

RE: Fenderless Rod ...legal in Ont ?

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

"THE HOT ROD GOD"

youre joking right? some guy who can throw a car together is a GOD? haha im the supreme being then hahahaha!

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

i dont believe Ed is envious or jelouse in the least, thats not his personality and i have known him for a long time. i think his point is would that car pass a legit safety? theres so many opinions on what is safe and the opinion of the mechanic signing his name to it is the one who ultimatley is responsible, so i would imagine knowing your mechanic personally and being buddies may influence the outcome, as one who is a mechanic doing safetys on here, he wouldnt pas a car with no fenders, his opinion but the rules state fenders are not really neccessary. my mechanic was a bit hesitant to pass my rat without front fenders but he must have read into it and came to the conclusion it was ok. building a rat rod shouldnt be a money spending contest either, having shiney new stuff is nice but thats not the true spirit of a rat rod

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

34 guy said..

Glen's build has such

a great following and admiration of Glen's talents

And even if he is not perfect nor a chip-foose.. or counting cars, or any of those gold-chainer car guys or wannabe's or just talkers and know it alls ..he has the gonads to put his stuff out there for those of us that appreciate him, his build, his friendship.. he is willing and unafraid to expose his work for all to sit back and criticize and pick apart..He is not building to suit you or anyone else other than himself..It's up to us to learn and share constructively or just be jerks and pick every little thing apart..I doubt he worry's about the criticism ..MOST of us appreciate what he shows for others to learn different ideas, styles,configurations, he is not afraid of some constructive critique ..Glen is a great guy to have on this board..and I would bet that a lot of guys have learned something..

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

I don't see any difference between your hot rod build or Glens hot rod build

or my own for that matter, Did you take your car to an unknown garage for the

safety or someone you knew. I took mine to someone I knew but I can tell you right now

he wouldn't jeprodize his license if he thought it to be unsafe.

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

fatstax wrote:
"THE HOT ROD GOD"
youre joking right? some guy who can throw a car together is a GOD? haha im the supreme being then hahahaha!

Have you ever driven this 'THING" any further than aroung a parking lot? How about down the 401 for a couple hours to the ELTA meet or Syracuse.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

heck no it stays in the garage all the time.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

34guy wrote:
I don't see any difference between your hot rod build or Glens hot rod build
or my own for that matter, Did you take your car to an unknown garage for the
safety or someone you knew. I took mine to someone I knew but I can tell you right now
he wouldn't jeprodize his license if he thought it to be unsafe.

well i of course took it to a person i know, but hes not my buddy and hes likely far pickier then most mechanics i can say that much. as i stated before he would not certify it if i had not welded up the frame to his liking, so i had no choice but to stick weld it at least

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

oldkoot wrote:
fatstax wrote:
"THE HOT ROD GOD"
youre joking right? some guy who can throw a car together is a GOD? haha im the supreme being then hahahaha!
Have you ever driven this 'THING" any further than aroung a parking lot? How about down the 401 for a couple hours to the ELTA meet or Syracuse.

Can not go to the ELTA events.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

Fordy Acres Car Farm wrote:
oldkoot wrote:
fatstax wrote:
"THE HOT ROD GOD"
youre joking right? some guy who can throw a car together is a GOD? haha im the supreme being then hahahaha!
Have you ever driven this 'THING" any further than aroung a parking lot? How about down the 401 for a couple hours to the ELTA meet or Syracuse.
Can not go to the ELTA events.

im a goof remember?

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

Ontario - Highway Traffic Act R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8
Mudguards
(3) EVERY MOTOR VEHICLE and every trailer SHALL BE EQUIPPED WITH mudguards or FENDERS or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (3).

In answer to the the original question, and basing my answer on the Ontario Highway Traffic Act itself, the bottom line is fenderless vehicles are NOT legal in Ontario.

I personally wouldn't want to drive a fenderless, hoodless, bumperless, hornless, Rainex for wipers, no defroster hot rod through one of those safety blitz's where the cops, the moe,the mto, CityTv, and Cam Whooley are in attendance. It would be pretty hard to explain why the trucker missing a mudflap got a ticket but the dude, guilty of the same infraction, driving the Hot Rod didn't.

Driving without fenders (in dry weather) is probably viewed along the same lines as driving 110 (ten over) on the 401. Yes, driving 10 over is ticketable, and it is against the law, but it's probably viewed as a "not really a big deal, no ones getting hurt, not worth my time" type thing.

I can't imagine what argument one could use if they took one of these tickets to court (other than the bit about being on the way somewhere for repairs). As required equipment IS required equipment.

-- Edited by DB Cooper on Thursday 20th of March 2014 05:45:53 PM

DaveM · ONTARIO

Hey!!! People are looking for you!!!

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

DaveM wrote:
Hey!!! People are looking for you!!!

Still? Here I've been thinking the statute of limitations would have run out by now cry

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body

What if it ain't raining....I can't recall ever this being an issue unless you really just want to make it an issue for the sake of posting..But I have saftied a few with out fenders and never had an issue getting to sleep..to me there many other things on a saftey and on a homebuilt street-rod...rat-rod that I would be more concerned about than, fenders or bumpers..

flatblack55delivery · PORT HOPE, ONT

Unfoutnatly the posts that I was refering to are gone so that makes my post look rediculous. I have learned a lot from The Cats thred and hope to learn more as his build continues to progress. The statement I made was because of what I concidered to be a mean spirited comments from Glen and his friends .Normally I wouldn't have said anything because the person being made fun of can handle himself just fine and usually is right in there stirring the pot anyway and enjoying it.What pissed me off was cracks about ins and values of a persons vehicle, then some friends also joined in to add there valued opinions.Some of these posts were removed so maybe you should ask them why. I figured that I would give a little back but quickly found out there are some you just can't say anything negitive about. If you didn't see all the posts maybe you shouldn't comment on half the story. As for being a minnion,I guess so because,I won't see my friend ridiculed,jelous ,only of Glens skills and knowlage not of his car,as for being a Goof ,I'll live with that.Hope this ends all of this drama it has gotten pretty silly. Ed

Molten · CAMBOURNE, ONT

Good post Ed. I am with ya. Never read the posts either, but must have been doozies to get deleted.

Bob T · BRANTFORD, ONT

Db Cooper Don't just pick out parts you like .Read the whole section you posted , it pertains to water on the roadway. That is the key. With all the concerns about fenders,emissions,registrations and smuggling I don't know how some of you are able to get your 'Hot Rods' out of the garage and drive them.

flatblack55delivery · PORT HOPE, ONT

Over the last year I think we hav discovered the regulations seem to vary from area to area. Some of us live in areas that are more highly enforced than others. An example would be Northumberland county where I live. We have the OPP and there blitzes.There is a MTO office and all of there officers.We also have a very vigilant MOE suburban containing a couple of highly motovated fellows who just love 80sto90s pickup trucks.Add to that seperate town police services from Port Hope and Cobourg who are generally cool but each has one officer who if he gets you look out. Then there are the safet blitzes a couple of times a year where they all join up to make our roads safe in conjunction with the tax department.On those days I don't even take the family car out. These guys even bust the tow trucks calledto haul away the vehicles that have had there plates taken. So yes some days its a challange around here. But that is all part of being a hotrodder isn't it. Ed

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

Bob T wrote:
Db Cooper Don't just pick out parts you like .Read the whole section you posted , it pertains to water on the roadway. That is the key. With all the concerns about fenders,emissions,registrations and smuggling I don't know how some of you are able to get your 'Hot Rods' out of the garage and drive them.

I did read it all and I do believe I understand your point of view. I just don't agree with the "if there isn't water on the road I am not legally required to have fenders". The Highway Traffic Act does not state fenders are required ONLY when the road is wet, it states they are required to prevent spray in the event of a wet road.

This is like saying you don't need headlights if you never drive at night. You may not NEED headlights due to never driving at night but functioning headlights are legally required as far as certification of a vehicle and if a cop did a roadside safety check, I'd be willing to bet nonfunctioning headlights would result in a ticket. This can apply to a functioning horn, wipers etc. Sure you don't use your horn or wiper or defroster (all legally required) all the time but they are required to be there for when you do need them.

I have nothing against fenderless cars, one of my favourites is a slightly chopped Model A 5 window on 32 rails, I'm just reading the regulations differently than you are.

I just read an earlier post where you mention you know three ontario cops who own fenderless rods with one being a member on this site. It would be great if you could contact the member cop and ask him to post his take on this issue, if he hasn't already commented. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say on this.

Bob T · BRANTFORD, ONT

DB I understand your position but it has been addressed in court and it was determined that this section of the act pertains to wet roads. I'll p.m. you the name of police officer and you can ask him.

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

Bob T wrote:
DB I understand your position but it has been addressed in court and it was determined that this section of the act pertains to wet roads. I'll p.m. you the name of police officer and you can ask him.

I only suggested you contact the person you know (cop and member) so we, as a group could view their input on this issue. I don't know this person, who they are or what they do so I will not be contacting them. My car has fenders, this issue isn't one I worry about, it interests me but does not worry me, I was just posting my interpretation of the law as I understand it.

Cheers

edit: pm deleted

-- Edited by DB Cooper on Thursday 20th of March 2014 09:02:49 PM

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

This is another subject that has been beat to death.
According to the MTO manual for safety inspections if it has fenders from the factory it must have fenders for safety. Bumpers same rule.
I have never seen a car that didn't have fenders from the factory. Some rear bumper exceptions on trucks.
Unless YOUR car has been built from scratch please don't argue that point.
The real questions then becomes "Do I feel secure enough to drive my vehicle without fenders?" You could be ticketed, fined, have rocks or water thrown from your tires or someones else's. The choice really is yours. Can you get away with it? Lots of people including myself have so far.
If you get ticketed and take it to court and win, you still have lost a bunch of time and or money.

As for cops being on this site, Well unless they are posting as police officer they are just another rodder and I wouldn't point them out.

If you still don't like my answer phone the MTO and the OPP because they are the ones writing and enforcing the laws.

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Things sure can get out of hand and going sideway's quick here

I have deleted my threads as I do not believe everything to be true I said about Ed

no reason to be jealous or envious , were all here for the common goal

to build and drive hot rods and help each other when we can.

MANCAVER · info@mancavestuff.ca

I have some prowler fenders for sale if any of you renegade rodders want to come clean wink

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

what did you do with all that money DB?

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

Lightspeed Mike wrote:

As for cops being on this site, Well unless they are posting as police officer they are just another rodder and I wouldn't point them out.

If you still don't like my answer phone the MTO and the OPP because they are the ones writing and enforcing the laws.

My bad, I just assumed a member and fellow car guy who is employed as a provincial police officer would WANT to add his professional expertise to legal matters that affect fellow hot rodders and forum members. I just assumed that an open discussion on this forum with an actual OPP officer and fellow car enthusiast would be better than "press one for ___, press two for ____, press three for ____, press four for other functions, I'm sorry, due to a large volume of calls we are presently experiencing your call will be placed in sequence (que elevator music), I'm sorry, regular working hours has ended for today, please try your call again tomorrow, thank you for calling the Ontario Provincial Police".

31 Blackrat · WATERDOWN, ONT

34guy wrote:
Was pulled over 2 summers ago but not ticketed. Was read the riot act and was told I must have fenders
and also a hood on the vehicle. When asked why ,I was told that if you blow a rad hose or overheat the water /anti freeze
would be dangerous to other driver and pedestrian's or anything else that can break under the hood.
I got caught in the rain out in London ,tried to wait it out and couldn't what a white knuckle ride home to mississauga
in the dark, only one wiper to boot. I have dent's in the backs of my mirrors where stones have been picked up by the
front tires and thrown hitting the mirrors.
All my rods from now on will be full fendered.

I like my fenders for all the obvious reasons but the hood thing is bullszt

31 Blackrat · WATERDOWN, ONT

fatchuk wrote:
34 guy said..
Glen's build has such
a great following and admiration of Glen's talents

And even if he is not perfect nor a chip-foose.. or counting cars, or any of those gold-chainer car guys or wannabe's or just talkers and know it alls ..he has the gonads to put his stuff out there for those of us that appreciate him, his build, his friendship.. he is willing and unafraid to expose his work for all to sit back and criticize and pick apart..He is not building to suit you or anyone else other than himself..It's up to us to learn and share constructively or just be jerks and pick every little thing apart..I doubt he worry's about the criticism ..MOST of us appreciate what he shows for others to learn different ideas, styles,configurations, he is not afraid of some constructive critique ..Glen is a great guy to have on this board..and I would bet that a lot of guys have learned something..

Agreed and well said chuck

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Yeah it's always bull**** till something happens and you find yourself in court being sued

I remember guy's in the sixties running no hood and being made to put them back on.

Although I still run with no hood I guess I am willing to cross that bridge if I get to it.

over the years I have had a few cars burst a rad hose

And a 68 cuda break a fan blade thru the shroud and thru the hood although it jammed in the hood

and my 64 ford f100 break a fan blade and went thru the lower tank still have the rad although repaired

So can I see their point .Yes I can

31 Blackrat · WATERDOWN, ONT

wow that was fun...

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

31 Blackrat wrote:

I like my fenders for all the obvious reasons but the hood thing is bullszt

I remember a guy in a blown Camaro (with a 6/71 style blower sticking up through the hood) being told (by a cop) that he had to build a guard of some sort to cover the blower belt (the blower drive also stuck through the hood) in the event that it broke and came off. Something about "if that belt ever came off, someone could get hurt". Not sure if that would stand up in court but I could definitely see how a lawyer (or cop) could argue that a hood prevents injury to nearby persons or vehicles if a blade where to come off a fan, if a belt where to fly off an engine or if debris (like gravel) is deflected off a spinning fan.

I do remember seeing a slit in a steel hood on a drag car where a fan blade (of an engine driven fan) ripped right through the hood at a high rpm. I'm not sure I'd have believed it if I didn't see it for myself.

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

It happened to my Dad about 20 years ago in his '78 Chevy pickup. Just driving on Trafalgar in London - not at high RPM. BAM! About a 6" rip just to the right of centre and even caught a little piece of the hood brace. He never did find the missing blade either! No telling how far it went. Also note, this was a stock steel fan - I've heard of lots of those cheap offshore aluminum flex fans coming apart at high RPM too. It can happen, but if it can go through a sturdy truck hood anyway, Is any hood really going to stop anything like this?

34guy · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

certainly will slow it down, and if it did hit someone , would you be more liable

with or without the hood?

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

reminds me of the time i lost 2 fan blades on my 55 gmc on the i5 outside seattle. i was motoring down the highway when i heard/felt 2 clunks. figured maybe pothole or something like that and kept on trucking. one blade went thru the rad and the other bounced and cut a nice slit thru the oil pan. lets say i seized her solid and coasted off the highway, thank god for standards. seems the previous owner (old farmer) had broken 2 blades at one time and brazed them back on. i never noticed till we pulled the motor and took note of the brazing on what was left.

Playin Hookie · HUNTSVILLE, ONT

When I was about 18 I dropped a 454 into my 70 Impala Ragtop, I was short one water-pump pulley/fan bolt and added it to the "finish that later" list. Within 20 miles I was jumping on the QEW and I heard a big bang followed by white smoke, shut her down and coasted to the shoulder. Found the fan with pulley and water pump shaft all attached jammed up against the frame rail, a big circle ripped out of the rad and a nice fan blade slice through the hood. Learned a quick lesson in balance that day.

So yeah I bet that would have made some distance if the hood didn't stop it. Hoods are important but so is not taking short-cuts.

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

I had a rather near miss about 20 years ago, a friend of mine had a vibration from the engine in his chev truck, he was revving the engine to show me it and we heard this bang kind of, I felt something fly past my ear then my ear got warm, well the fan had lost a blade so it was making the engine shake, then it lost another, went through the fan shroud and cut the tip of my ear, the heat was the blood running down my ear. seems the rivets of the fan were corroded. lucky me

Ragtop · BELLE RIVER, ONT

Bob, I got a ticket back in the late 80s with my deuce roadster and went to see the traffic sergeant. He was ready to rip it up until he called the ministry. They say dust is considered "Roadspray" so I paid the fine and that was it. I've had fenderless cars before that one and a few since and never got a ticket other than that one. The T coupe in my shop right now doesn't have fenders and I'm not worrying about it. I know I'll mention the Oddball case if I ever do get stopped. Thanks

Bob T · BRANTFORD, ONT

Mike ..The Ministry;s opinion isn't necessarily the law. Being retired I have the time and money to see it through court. . But I do that with all charges. I usually represent myself. Enough said.

-- Edited by Bob T on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 11:51:06 PM

Keeper · OSHAWA, ONT

I have been driving my fenderless t-bucket for a couple of years now. Never got anything but a thumbs up from any Police either here or in the USA.

I always wondered why they required fenders, until I got stuck in a storm coming back from Shake one night. It was like following a speed boat, 40 ft rooster tails and all. I got a good laugh out of it, but I am sure the folks behind me were not to happy.

As for the rocks, yeah them damn things hurt when they come off the front tires on the 401. YEEEOUCH

I debated fenders (and I still do) the the bucket, but figured the next one can have them.

As someone posted earlier, its all about your attitude. If you are a dick, well expect to be treated as such. Smile and nod, yes Sir, no Sir, two bags full and off you go.

-- Edited by Keeper on Thursday 27th of March 2014 07:28:39 AM