Understanding Hot Rod Emissions Requirements..(trying to)

NuckingFuts · MISSISSAUGA, ONT

Understanding Hot Rod Emissions Requirements..(trying to)

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

Dylan I know you are new here and welcome. Search the treads on this site there are many posts you will become educated or very very confused biggrin

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

They have further complicated this stupid mess with changing the test to only read the engine faults . but i see no one has updated there information . maybe some of the guys doing this for a living know how this applies if its not OBD2 compliant then It should only require a 2 speed Idle test ?

BAJ · BRANTFORD, ONT

I only use pre emission engines in my hot rods to stay away from this bs.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

It is not confusing at all in any way..It is very clear and simple..go the Ministry site and read it ..they have clear regulations and special instructions for Hot-rods..We have been through this subject a 100 times ..there are pages and pages of this subject..It is and has been hashed over and over..the ministry has very, very clear explanations, about how and what the rules are for e-mission requirements for modified hot-rods..People constantly misread, misunderstand, misinterpret, or are unable to comprehend what they are saying but it is not rocket science..depending on the engine ,the build, or when the vehicle, was modified, rodded or how it is registered, if you have one or have just bought something you are unsure of then get the engine numbers and check the engine specs and dates for the engine in your vehicle and see if has the emission equipment on it that you are or will be required to have should you be stopped and requested to have your vechicle/ride/rod e-tested..If you are just buying one make it a point to find all the build information you can and when the vehicle was modified and registered try to get receipts to prove that..as it very important to 1999 as to the emission status..again I say go to the site and read about hot-rods..you will find every thing you need to know...

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

I'm with BAJ on this - same with my next daily driver, if they don't get rid of the Drive Clean program, I'll be using a pre 1987. Avoidance is the way to beat the 'Big Bro'.

wuga · PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

Any modified car with an engine pre-emission controls, probably 1968, must meet 1980 test results even if the engine has no emission pieces. The simple answer for 1980 test results seems to be Hydrocarbons 600PPM and Carbon Monoxide 5%/vol. This is pretty easy to meet. I don't know if this applies to unmodified vehicles.

Warren

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

I'm with Fordy and BAJ on this my winter beater after this spring will be a 78 jeep with 78 emissions (pcv,evap,egr,electric airpump and a cat) on a 69 small block.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

Sacotu wrote:
I'm with Fordy and BAJ on this my winter beater after this spring will be a 78 jeep with 78 emissions (pcv,evap,egr,electric airpump and a cat) on a 69 small block.

As well,'87 and OLDER for me.

Modfather · VICTORIA HARBOUR, ONT

X 3

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

If you really want to get stopped and test the rules, just register your hot rod with historical plates!

BAJ · BRANTFORD, ONT

wuga wrote:
Any modified car with an engine pre-emission controls, probably 1968, must meet 1980 test results even if the engine has no emission pieces. The simple answer for 1980 test results seems to be Hydrocarbons 600PPM and Carbon Monoxide 5%/vol. This is pretty easy to meet. I don't know if this applies to unmodified vehicles.

Warren

Soooo....If I put a 1963 327 in my 55 Chevy(which came originally with a 6 cyl), I have technically hot rodded it and therefore must meet 1980 emissions??????? Doesn't make sense to me.

Sacotu · COBOURG, ONT

i thought it was what ever is newer. my 55 has a 70 350 in it (with pcv)

DaveM · ONTARIO

Don't confuse the "1980" Drive Clean requirements under their definition of a "hot rod", with what the MOE requires you to have. The MOE has their own test requirements should you get sent in for inspection. Nothing to do with the Drive Clean program or regulations.

A 1955 vehicle with a 1963 engine does not need to meet 1980 tailpipe emissions.

wuga · PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

www.ene.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@ene/@resources/documents/resource/stdprod_080001.pdf

If you go to page 5 of this document, it states pre 1980 cars, not 1980-1960 or any such thing, must meet 1980 emission standards. I don't know how this works on a 1923 stock model T but in theory it could also be held accountable.

Warren

-- Edited by wuga on Thursday 20th of March 2014 07:43:15 PM

Bob T · BRANTFORD, ONT

I'm taking the PCV off my 1964 327 so as not to violate the intent of the law. I also bought a 1966 283 to replace a crate 350 if it becomes a issue . I hope the Crane cam ,750 holly on the 327 wake it up like a hot rod should. The dual quads on the other might be a bit to much. Gee I hope I meet all the emission standards.

BAJ · BRANTFORD, ONT

wuga wrote:
www.ene.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@ene/@resources/documents/resource/stdprod_080001.pdf

If you go to page 5 of this document, it states pre 1980 cars, not 1980-1960 or any such thing, must meet 1980 emission standards. I don't know how this works on a 1923 stock model T but in theory it could also be held accountable.

Warren

-- Edited by wuga on Thursday 20th of March 2014 07:43:15 PM

Ok, I see on page 5 where it states 1980 or earlier. I guess all cars that are older, hot rodded or not will not pass. Still does not make sense to me. I wonder how this would be enforced?

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

shag766 wrote:
ok, somebody opened the worm can again, so, here goes.
lets here the decisions. inquiring minds need/want to know.
-
1950 f1 truck- 1988-9 5lt/ho efi
1969 coronet 318ci- now 426 hemi/late 68 build date
1970 chevelle 350ci- now complete 572 dart engine/new
1967 galaxie 428ci- now 428/original
-
pending
-
1940 pontiac coupe flat 6- pending mid 60's 327 build

there are guys on here that do the current tests on a regular basis so lets say i show up at your machine tomorrow. whats up?
-
lets try to keep this off the off topic forum. might be a good idea for a future thread starter. when this runs its course i will make my own decisions. aka- no body is held responsible. lol
-
"HAVE AT ER" and remember Its all fun till someone loses an eye" information is knowledge

p.s. i would have an appointment of course for the test.

wuga · PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

According to MTO chart, truck must meet 89 standards and all others 80 standards. There does seem to be some contention about crate engines but I'm pretty sure if you got pulled in, you'd have to meet the lowest standards.

Warren

shag766 · FOXBORO, ONT

wuga wrote:
According to MTO chart, truck must meet 89 standards and all others 80 standards. There does seem to be some contention about crate engines but I'm pretty sure if you got pulled in, you'd have to meet the lowest standards.

Warren

thanks

Redneck Rydes · TRENTON, ONT & SOUTH CAROLINA

This is why I am having My auction and moving to South Carolina, the government has taken all the fun out of dur hobby/way of life.In S.C. NO EMISSION test you can put any engine in any car and not have to worry if you are breaking the law. I hate the feeling of driving one of My toys and wondering when I am going to get pulled in by the MTO Gestapo ****ers,just saying.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

Shag asked..

inquiring minds need/want to know.
-
1950 f1 truck- 1988-9 5lt/ho efi
1969 coronet 318ci- now 426 hemi/late 68 build date
1970 chevelle 350ci- now complete 572 dart engine/new
1967 galaxie 428ci- now 428/original
-
pending
-
1940 pontiac coupe flat 6- pending mid 60's 327 build

there are guys on here that do the current tests on a regular basis so lets say i show up at your machine tomorrow. whats up?

You would get a two speed idle test with a sniffer up your pipe, on a piece of paper with the readings..then you could post on the drivers sider rear 1/4 window for inquiring minds and MOE officers..None of those vehicles would be in the system..

hemi43 · ONTARIO

shag766 wrote:
shag766 wrote:
ok, somebody opened the worm can again, so, here goes.
lets here the decisions. inquiring minds need/want to know.
-
1950 f1 truck- 1988-9 5lt/ho efi ---MUST MEET 1989 EMISSIONS OF ENGINE

1969 coronet 318ci- now 426 hemi/late 68 build date--MUST MEET 1969 EMISSIONS BECAUSE THAT ENGINE WAS AVAILABLE ON THAT CAR

1970 chevelle 350ci- now complete 572 dart engine/new--GRAY AREA, SOME OFFICERS SAY FOR OFF-ROAD ONLY, OTHERS NO EMISSION NEEDED

1967 galaxie 428ci- now 428/original---MUST MEET 1967 EMISSIONS BECAUSE THAT CAR WAS AVAILABLE WITH THAT ENGINE

-
1940 pontiac coupe flat 6- pending mid 60's 327 build--MUST MEET 1980 EMISSION STANDARDS BECAUSE THAT CAR IS NOW A HOTROD

-- Edited by hemi43 on Friday 21st of March 2014 08:50:14 AM

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

hemi43 wrote:

1940 pontiac coupe flat 6- pending mid 60's 327 build--MUST MEET 1980 EMISSION STANDARDS BECAUSE THAT CAR IS NOW A HOTROD

I'm not sure I agree with this last one. The MOE aren't doing roadside emission tests at present so this car should only need to pass a visual test so the engine needs to have whatever emission equipment the engine had on it when it was new. They may get touchy feely with your components in an attempt to determine whether the parts that are present have been disabled (plate under egr, ball bearing in vac line type thing), but they aren't going to send you for an actual tailpipe sniff unless the car is an obvious gross polluter. That may all change if they do become equipped with portable test units though.

This is how I picture it happening. The moe pulls you over just for a random check (you car isn't smoking like crazy or stinking up the neighbourhood), they check the engine numbers (number compute to a 1965 327 out of an Impala), look in their emissions book for what the engine had on it, you either have whatever emission equipment that engine came with (which may be nothing due to its age) or you are missing some parts and get a warning or a ticket, they send you on your way.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Agreed, but the MOE officer has the right to send you in for an e-test at his discretion, and the way the law is written, your car must then pass 1980 specs. This has been debated on the past, and I would love to see documentation confirming this.

-- Edited by hemi43 on Friday 21st of March 2014 02:17:35 PM

Redneck Rydes · TRENTON, ONT & SOUTH CAROLINA

Like I said before.If the P.C.s get voted in we won't have to have this conversation,vote out that pussy licker and we get our hot rods back to the way we used to build,put a engine your hot rod and enjoy it,right now all we are worried about is can we get away with something,what a way to live in our hobby,get out and ****ing vote!

Bob T · BRANTFORD, ONT

If the P.C.s get in there will be bigger problems than emissions.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Redneck Rydes wrote:
Like I said before.If the P.C.s get voted in we won't have to have this conversation,vote out that pussy licker and we get our hot rods back to the way we used to build,put a engine your hot rod and enjoy it,right now all we are worried about is can we get away with something,what a way to live in our hobby,get out and ****ing vote!

Even if the PCs don't get in, the Drive Clean program will disappear soon just like it did out west because it doesn't work anymore. This will not change the MOE's policy to have our cars emission compliant, so we will still be in the same boat. cry

DB Cooper · ONTARIO

hemi43 wrote:

Even if the PCs don't get in, the Drive Clean program will disappear soon just like it did out west because it doesn't work anymore. This will not change the MOE's policy to have our cars emission compliant, so we will still be in the same boat.

I totally agree with this comment. The MOE isn't driveclean. The MOE is just targeting pre 1987 cars and trucks because driveclean already deals with the 1987 and newer cars. Remove driveclean and the government might decide that they need a lot more MOE cars out there dealing with the emission issues.

Mr Bowtie · New Member

Just dump a couple of gallons Methol Hydrate into the fuel tank when it is near. empty, you shoud pass, no problem.

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

Mr Bowtie wrote:
Just dump a couple of gallons Methol Hydrate into the fuel tank when it is near. empty, you shoud pass, no problem.

Eaaaakkk! That could hurt all kinds of components in the fuel system. Carburetors and fuel pumps even electric pumps are not compatible with Alcohol.