pretty sweet, but i still long for the days when you could walk into a dealer and buy a strip down car with your choice of drivetrain.

Paul.The Challenger is now more HP than the Corvette. I like Vettes. Don't get me wrong but I haven't seen a ZL1 make a 10.85 pass bone stock. The copo is a trailer queen because you cant drive it on the street.

As far at the future holds....Im thinking they will retain a respectable amount of value to some degree but these cars, the Hellcat, the ZL1, the Z06 are for the rich anyway. The average blue collar guy can't afford this stuff with wife and kids...But I am really liking that the big 3 are in the direction lately with HP/Torque #s. Its a step in the right direction for the car hobby world. Rich or not...It sure beats the 80s and 90s with what people thought of the be all end all 400hp Viper or the ZR1 back in the day. When Iroc's.Mustangs barely saw 300hp.

If the big 3 continue like this it adds much excitement to the car world, the economy for jobs, aftermarket parts, racing etc. It excites me. Mopar, Ford or GM. I like these numbers, I will never own one but love to see others have one.

"The average blue collar guy can't afford this stuff with wife and kids...But I am really liking that the big 3 are in the direction lately with HP/Torque #s. Its a step in the right direction for the car hobby world."
-i am thinking they are building these cars for the empty nesters. there is a pile of them out there and another pile to come. the majority have built up a fair bit of equity and capital for their retirement and probably got a bit of inheritance to boot as our parents came through at a time of prosperity also. my brother is setting up to retire from 30 plus yrs as a union plumber and went out and bought a newer big power mustang. surprised the crap out of me with that one. he says 2 or 3 of his buddies have done the same thing with cars. now he is bugging me to be at the next arm drop. lol i know the hemi wouldn't beat it so it will have to be the chevelle with the 572 in it.
-when you think about it there are a lot of guys who dabbled in the muscle cars of the day but life got in the way as in marriage, kids, mortgage, etc-etc. most came through with respectable jobs and nice pension plans and now they are having some grinns.
-
-just my thinking; rick

Ben, Jacob and I went to test and tune 2 Friday nights ago in Cayuga. Both the ZL1 Camaro and the Zo6 Corvette were there and appeared pretty stock. The ZL1 Camaro ran consistant High 12's (12.8) can't remember the mile/hr. and the Z06 was running consistant high 11's(11.8). Great to see them run.

Last night a Benmar cruise night a grey haired guy came rumbling in to the show in a new Mustang of the faster looking type....wish I could remember what it was exactly. I believe it had Cobras on it! And while we are at it....at test and tune V6 mustangs were running mid to high 14's and Civics low 15's. While that might not seem all that fast....Remember that in the late 80's the 5.0 Mustangs were only 14.9 to 15.3 cars(stock). I went away thinking ... If I want to build something fast ... it will have to crack the 13 second mark to make sure no little Honda or V6 car sneaks up and kicks your butt. LOL

slab wrote:

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..no one was really saying I better store this away cause it will probably be worth something someday. 

 

Can you imagine what a $5,000. car purchase back in the 60' s would bring today?  Sure would beat any RRSP's that I have.  Hind site sure is 20/20.

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my first brand new car was a 'cuda, no way could i afford a corvette. now i have a 76 corvette but no way could i afford a 'cuda !!! hahahaha.

DJD wrote:

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I think the ultimate limiting factor for the newer stuff is going to be the nonexistant electronic parts for them in years to come

even more so with the current new stuff than even my fwd turbo dodge stuff

 

if you don't know where to get those kind of parts your pretty much screwed

 

older cars , hell any kind of carb can be swaped on in place of the original

-- Edited by DJD on Sunday 13th of July 2014 10:55:50 PM

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 Tuners are already replacing factory electronics I don't see it as a problem   . finding some type of fuel to run it on maybe the bigger challenge. been reading of late Gm is going in the opposite direction with the new Z28 dropping HP  to 505 and lightning the entire car and putting some pressure on the old boys of the road circuits. Sure never thought a muscle car would be compared to the likes of porsche and nissan for handling. My guess is you will see an AWD  version on the track soon.  

Really i don't think there is a need to worry about finding someone That can come up with a program. That is fairly mainstream today. what I see disappearing in a world of remove and replace is the ability to rebuild anything. It was common  for any mechanic to know how to strip and rebuild an engine  when i was growing up . now i dont think its even considered. just yank it and drop a new one in. Maybe we are both right     

We'll see exactly what the Dodge runs when it is released.

700hp in a 4000lb car isnt going to perform like a 650hp car that weighs 3000 lbs.(weights not actual)  I'm not swayed by advertised power numbers and hype.  The quickest pass by a bone stock 638hp ZR-1 Vette on stock tires is reportedly  in the mid 10's@133mph.

These cars are made of unobtainium for most of working folk.

Yes race cars are trailer queens, I guess, I'm used to that term being used for a car that has the ability to be driven, but the owner decides to relegate it to the trailer.  Not a car that cannot be driven on the streets.

These cars are made of unobtainium for most of working folk.

slim wrote:

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DJD wrote:

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I think the ultimate limiting factor for the newer stuff is going to be the nonexistant electronic parts for them in years to come

even more so with the current new stuff than even my fwd turbo dodge stuff

 

if you don't know where to get those kind of parts your pretty much screwed

 

older cars , hell any kind of carb can be swaped on in place of the original

-- Edited by DJD on Sunday 13th of July 2014 10:55:50 PM

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 Tuners are already replacing factory electronics I don't see it as a problem   . finding some type of fuel to run it on maybe the bigger challenge. been reading of late Gm is going in the opposite direction with the new Z28 dropping HP  to 505 and lightning the entire car and putting some pressure on the old boys of the road circuits. Sure never thought a muscle car would be compared to the likes of porsche and nissan for handling. My guess is you will see an AWD  version on the track soon.  

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Yes, the 2014 Z/28 is the last GM car to use the 505hp 427 GEN 4 engine along with some body lightening and Vette carbon brakes.  While the 505hp Z/28 in the new "Zedder" is down on substantially on power comparted to the 580hp ZL1 Camaro, it is supposed to handle quite well and the Z/28 is 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1. Some of teh weight loss comes from lighter whheels and thinner rear window glass. The Z/28 is capable of 1.05g's in the corners and 1.5g when hard on the binders. The 505 hp is a gEN 4 SBC meaning that it uses conventional MPFI and is not direct injected like teh GEN 5 engines, it also is oiled by a 10.5 quart dry sump oiling system.  Thats a lot of oil, and since synthetics are the factory fill, the oil alone will cost around $115, plus filter.

I do find it amazing that these Chevrolet cars such as the C6 ZR-1, ZO6 and C7 Stingray and upcomming 2015 ZO6 Vette are competing with and beating many exotics that cost 2-4 times the sticker price.  A good measure of a cars overall performance is by comparing track times such as the Nurburghring lap times.  Acceleration, braking, cornering all come into play.

A stock 2012 ZR-1 638hp Corvette wearing DOT optional competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) ran a 7:19:62. a 2012 ZO6 505hp COrvette ran a 7:22:68.

Perspective: 

Enzo Ferrari runs a 7:25:70  approx $700,000 sometimes trade for over a million$$

Pagani Zonda 7:24:44  approx 600hp $1,525,000

Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.6  806hp/679lb/ft approx $600,000

Corvette ZR1 7:19:62 638hp/604lb/ft torque  $125,000

Corvette ZO6 7:22:68 505hp/470lb/ft torque $75,000

 

Pretty damn impressive performance bumbers, even more impressive when you start figuring performance per dollar.

An AWD Z/28 would certainly be interesting!

-- Edited by Hog on Wednesday 16th of July 2014 09:16:57 AM

I think I will just go and take my 63 Max Wedge for a drive. It always restores a smile to my face everytime I have driven it in the last 24 years. Funny thing is to it drives as well as most modern cars. Had a PT Turbo. Was pretty good. Had the very first V10 RAM ---001. It went today after 20 years. In fact just about 2 hours ago. It was fun for a big truck and ran 15.86 at 86 MPH a few times. What would really be cool would be a 5.7 hemi small 2wd jeep, dropped front axle and all. However I agree about the weight and the excessive electronics. A Hemi Cuda back in the day though was no flyweight either with a weight around 4200 in some cases. Even my old 72 440 charger weighed in at 3950 without me in it. They say they want efficiency and keep adding weight. ???????????????? They talk about crumble zones. I call that bad bumber design. We are driving now slower then we did most of our lives and now a mere touch of a crash and the car folds up like a pop can. Used to be you could have a pretty could smack and might have to reset the bumper bolts to get it sitting straight again. Now you have to absorb it all in the wallet. Of course we have an option us car folks. We can just buy and old one, restore and enjoy. Some old winterbeater for the winter months and life is good. Somehow I have passed the point where a new one interests me. My nephews both have new Challengers , one a 6 speed and one an auto. Chrysler MISSED!!!!!!!! the boat with the new Charger when they brought it out as if it had been a two door they would be all around like flies on a watermelon. I was already to jump in back then when I discovered to my horror no 2 dr cars. I wrote the then Pres of Chrysler in his native tongue and asked him how many 4 dr Mustangs or 4 dr Corvettes did he think would sell. Not long after they sent him back to the fatherland. However they never righted that wrong. Hope he is working in a garbage dump or something. People that stupid should not be allowed out in public.
The Hellcat would be fun but I think the cost is more then I would want to bear. We lived in the best of times, many of us. How fortunate we were and we didn't even know it at the time.
don

-- Edited by Don on Wednesday 16th of July 2014 02:17:44 PM

-- Edited by Don on Wednesday 16th of July 2014 02:22:08 PM

-- Edited by Don on Wednesday 16th of July 2014 02:22:43 PM

That is how the factories did it back in the day, you could order the top engine option in the lightest body.
Example a 409/425 hp in a Biscayne or a 427 Hi Riser in a Ford 300 2 door coupe, or even better, in a Fairlane, called them Thunderbolts.

hotrod-steve wrote:

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My son works for Chrysler in the Bramalea plant and was telling me about the Hell Cat. He said that they also put a Hell cat engine in a Charger and a 300. Now that would be a sleeper!

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 This only give's me hope, that the super charger, and the plug and play, will become available as a bolt on item. There's not much hood clearance as it is on my "300", but I can't see there being much more on the Challenger, and that's not a big bulge on the hood.

 

My stock trans. would need some beefing up.

slim wrote:

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Really i don't think there is a need to worry about finding someone That can come up with a program. That is fairly mainstream today. what I see disappearing in a world of remove and replace is the ability to rebuild anything. It was common  for any mechanic to know how to strip and rebuild an engine  when i was growing up . now i dont think its even considered. just yank it and drop a new one in. Maybe we are both right     

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 X2 on the programing.

700 + hp .. hellcat - comeing soon to a junk yard near you .... less front end parts

yeah , you know what I mean

Love the new Hellcat     lots of folks in the U.S.  with that kinda coin for new toys      Hot Rods are Hot Rods   no matter what form