I would like to get some Input on an idea that I've been tossing around.
When it comes to hot rod builds, the part that scares most people is body work and paint.
I have thought about offering an auto body training course at my shop in Oshawa, and would like to see if there is any ideas or opinions related to this.
The course would involve hands on work doing a complete project from start to finish on a single body panel.
Here is the basic outline.......
-paint stripping
-bare metal prep
-epoxy primer application
-rust repair by cut and weld new metal patch/ grinding smooth.
-dent repair
-high build/poly application
-block sanding
-final prep and masking
-paint application
-colour sanding and polishing
thank you for your input,
Ryan
-- Edited by FYN RYD Customs on Thursday 27th of November 2014 11:06:46 PM
to me thats a heck of an idea. it might take a bit till you get some people out there with some finished cars that can be attributed to taking your course and it should snowball from there.
When I was at Fanshawe College I ran a group of courses related to body work. We had Metal Working, Paint, Pinstripping, Flame layout, and finish restoration. All run on a part time basis. The colleges in Ontario (most of them) have courses running just like the above. Give your local college a call to find out if they have some courses or would they like to start one.
Thanks for the input, i think the most fair way of pricing would be on an hourly basis with a minimum amount of hours to begin.
If someone has some previous experience with metal repair and would like to move right into the body and paint portion of the training, that would change the amount of time they will be taking to learn.
Times could definitely be somewhat flexible as I am at the shop for extended hours and can be accommodating to your needs.
All tools and materials would be supplied by me, a personal respirator will have to be purchased as it will be used by only one person. (Approx $40)
This is still just an idea but would like as much input on what people would like to learn and that will help me develop a proper training course.
Thank you again.
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If you can't afford to do it right the first time, how can you afford to do it twice?
I did this as a 6 week course on wednesday nights at Centennial college many years ago. A friend of mine is doing it right now with them, and if you take the second painting course, you can paint your own car in their really nice downdraft booth. Maximum of 15 students to a class and you get a nice certificate when you are done. The courses are $330 ea after taxes.
This is your competition.
I would focus on the extremely low class sizes (only a couple of people or one on one), customized lesson plan depending on their skill level, and make sure they have some booklet or something to take home with them explaining all the tools, safety equipment they need, and basic theory. You don't want to have to be wasting your time explaining to the person the basics, and the equipment they are required to bring to work in a safe manner.
The safety thing is a real CYA move basically. Safety boots, eye protection, dust mask, and respirator at a minimum. Unless you are doing it under the table with only friends - contact your insurance and get the skinny from them on if they will even insure you doing it!
I am not involved in the autobody industry but I thought I heard that Canada (and parts or all of the States) was (or is going to be) restricted to water borne auto paints and this type of water based paint needs specialized equipment (air blowers or something like that) and without that equipment, cars wouldn't be able to be painted at home like in the old days. Something along the lines of "the air must move across the surface, you can't just roll it out into the sun to cure it" type thing.
I am not involved in the autobody industry but I thought I heard that Canada (and parts or all of the States) was (or is going to be) restricted to water borne auto paints and this type of water based paint needs specialized equipment (air blowers or something like that) and without that equipment, cars wouldn't be able to be painted at home like in the old days. Something along the lines of "the air must move across the surface, you can't just roll it out into the sun to cure it" type thing.
Am I totally off base on this?
I'm not an expert but I have sprayed waterbourne in my home shop. Yes I have a "home style" booth with a bigger than your average exhaust fan but no other fancy equipment. As strange as it might sound..I used house fans to move the air to help it dry. If you are not a production shop, dry times are not as critical as one would think. Mind you , I am talking in comparison to the average joes backyard paint job with solvent base. Spray it in the morning and clear it in the late afternoon...no problem. The biggest problem is the price of the stuff IMO. I realize I may have over simplified it but it is do-able in a backyard shop situation the same as solvent base is.
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slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
I understand the primer is still solvent based and I also understand the clear is solvent based, I just had no idea how or even if a home garage painter would deal with the water borne stuff. Interesting to hear that the water based stuff can be shot at home.
interesting given that some shops around here are going to the newest out, solvent based paints, and ditching the waterborne
I remember reading something (quite a while ago) about a paint that was solvent based but the amount of solvent in it was so low, it met the requirements set out by the air quality/pollution branch of the gov't, and was therefore, legal to use even though it isn't a true waterborne paint.
Never heard any more about it ... well, till now it seems. I'm guessing people used to spraying solvent based stuff would be more comfortable with this above mentioned product than the water based stuff.
Thread is drifting off topic but .... I will say that my Dupont supplier isn't going to carry their waterbase anymore. Folks say it may be the end of Dupont in the bodyshop field??? Dupont switched everyone over to waterbased and then (after struggling with it I heard), came out with a low VOC solvent base and wants everyone to switch to it. Some say too little too late for Dupont. Haven't heard much about the other companies products. All rumours maybe??
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slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
Please don't read any attitude into this but I think it is very on topic (as seen through my eyes ... although I admit, my opinion and the opinion of the original poster might vary, my apologies if that is the case).
Here's why ... the first thought that crossed my mind when I read the original post was "I personally can't see too many people being interested in this course if they aren't able to actually spray their project themselves due to the issues that waterborne paints have" (or issues I thought they had). I have heard that many paint shops had issues of one type or another (heard this from a body shop paint supplier) when they were first required to use the stuff. If this new "low VOC solvent" paint sprays and drys like the regular "old" solvent based stuff, and is available over the counter somewhere, I think more "shade tree" guys might be interested in an auto body training course. I'm actually quite happy to hear that there might be (or already is) a legal alternative to water based auto paint as I have had a small amount of experience with the regular auto paint (sprayed a hood and a trunk with prime and single stage, at home) but have had (up to this point), zero interest in spraying water based due to the rumours, whether true or not regarding the correct application of water based paint.
My second thought was this ... Fyn Ryd is in Oshawa. So is Durham College/UOIT ... if DC/UOIT offers a course in body prep/painting, has DC/UOIT already cornered the market in courses of this nature?
I would like to get some Input on an idea that I've been tossing around.
When it comes to hot rod builds, the part that scares most people is body work and paint.
I have thought about offering an auto body training course at my shop in Oshawa, and would like to see if there is any ideas or opinions related to this.
The course would involve hands on work doing a complete project from start to finish on a single body panel.
Here is the basic outline.......
-paint stripping
-bare metal prep
-epoxy primer application
-rust repair by cut and weld new metal patch/ grinding smooth.
-dent repair
-high build/poly application
-block sanding
-final prep and masking
-paint application
-colour sanding and polishing
thank you for your input,
Ryan
-- Edited by FYN RYD Customs on Thursday 27th of November 2014 11:06:46 PM
I would kill to learn this stuff.
Oshawa is a bit of a ways away during the week, but on weekends I'd be all over this.
A good friend of mine who had a shop in AB used to do this for car clubs, he managed to get some sponsorship from his vendors, so it was like a an event. he'd do a little welding clinic one week and something the next...
slash at alberta02.com I'm not on this forum much, but if you do end up doing something like this please email with a cost and times etc. I'd be all over it.
just a thought to anyone who does wish to paint at home - you can still buy solvent based base paints just about anywhere as you are not a body shop and you are not doing volume painting.
I know this because I just finished painting my truck with solvent based paints, and it was the supplier who told me all about the environmental laws, and who can use what types of paints and for what
The supply shops just can not sell regular solvent based paints to the body shops at the moment, by law, as nothing else but water based meets the VOC rules
Having said that - the newest solvent paints do meet the VOC and I am hearing many will go to it as soon as they can switch over
-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 4th of December 2014 03:12:26 PM
just a thought to anyone who does wish to paint at home - you can still buy solvent based base paints just about anywhere as you are not a body shop and you are not doing volume painting.
I know this because I just finished painting my truck with solvent based paints, and it was the supplier who told me all about the environmental laws, and who can use what types of paints and for what
The supply shops just can not sell regular solvent based paints to the body shops at the moment, by law, as nothing else but water based meets the VOC rules
Having said that - the newest solvent paints do meet the VOC and I am hearing many will go to it as soon as they can switch over
-- Edited by Seeker1056 on Thursday 4th of December 2014 03:12:26 PM
I would have to get clarification on what types of solvent base you are referring to. Dupont for example : there for a lack of a better word "secondary line" called Nason is solvent based and never stopped being solvent based. But it is only recondmended for "completes". Their best line(s) Chromabase etc were completely discontinued in Canada and not available to anyone. This is the paint line you needed for their warranty programs and for the best colour matches. Basically the top of the line products(base wise) were discontinued in Canada from all suppliers and manufactures Napa was not allowed to even stock it and had to send back all old stock. I know it was gone because I was back in their mixing room.
But... I hope I'm wrong because I have some left over chroma base but am pretty much out of BASEMKAKER. LOL
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slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
I would like to get some Input on an idea that I've been tossing around.
When it comes to hot rod builds, the part that scares most people is body work and paint.
I have thought about offering an auto body training course at my shop in Oshawa, and would like to see if there is any ideas or opinions related to this.
The course would involve hands on work doing a complete project from start to finish on a single body panel.
Here is the basic outline.......
-paint stripping
-bare metal prep
-epoxy primer application
-rust repair by cut and weld new metal patch/ grinding smooth.
-dent repair
-high build/poly application
-block sanding
-final prep and masking
-paint application
-colour sanding and polishing
thank you for your input,
Ryan
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Would it not be cool to get some High School students involved ???
My son is in his second year apprenticeship in auto body and is still mainly in charge of sweeping floors and taking out garbage. He has begged for more knowledge and training but the shop is to busy to properly train. He does allot of dismantling but after the main painter left hes back to cleaning the cars. Thats how the industry works little real training but he can clean (detail) well. They say you have to start at the bottom but hes getting disheartened and is thinking about leaving the business as hes frustrated with the lack of hands on training.
-- Edited by workin class on Saturday 6th of December 2014 05:58:06 PM
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///// Join THE LOSERS c.c. of Ontario Ask me how/////
slab - we have a Napa dealer here who would tell you very much otherwise - he stocks three different brands besides Nason - and he is the one who told me I can get anything I want in single stage or solvent base, because I don't do production. He can not sell solvent based anything to shops except for touch ups
Most us are doing completes that have nothing to do with the original application - so some of your points about match don't matter to us
The Napa dealer here is now carrying Matrix which is supposed to be good and is good for colour match. It is solvent based so I guess that could be one. I would be curious what the other paints might be. Could you get more info?? While colour match might not matter...the best paints that were discontinued were also just that..The best paints. Highest quality which again might not matter to the back yard guy but if I'm doing a resto I would want the best.
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slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop
My son is in his second year apprenticeship in auto body and is still mainly in charge of sweeping floors and taking out garbage. He has begged for more knowledge and training but the shop is to busy to properly train. He does allot of dismantling but after the main painter left hes back to cleaning the cars. Thats how the industry works little real training but he can clean (detail) well. They say you have to start at the bottom but hes getting disheartened and is thinking about leaving the business as hes frustrated with the lack of hands on training.
-- Edited by workin class on Saturday 6th of December 2014 05:58:06 PM
This is all over the place.
A friend of my daughter who spent a few years in school to become a mechanic, started at the bottom in a Toyota dealership and the farthest he got was changing oil.
Got fed up and is now into computers. Same thing, too busy to train on other stuff.
I'm also a second year apprentice for truck and coach. fortunately tho I get lots of time working on the vehicles but the story most the guys get from shop managers is that they started out sweeping floors and so will you. But then they leave them sweeping floors or they give them a job like doing wheel seals and it's all they do for the next 2 years. it's more so the bigger company shops that do this I worked for a big company for 6 months realized that all I was doing was tires and got out of there and went to a smaller shop and what a difference
And if anyone is planning on doing some sort of auto body coarses down by guelph/Wellington area let me know cuzz I'm really intrested in doing it
There are currently quite a few low voc solvent basecoats. There has always been solvent here in ontario since the new laws came out. Basf has come out with a top of the line solvent, Dupont which is now Axalta has a top end solvent. These 2 are new in the last year or so.
Matrix, Prospray and the lower lines like transtar and nason have all been around. They just have a reducer that does not use the chemicals they test for. Alot of the low voc solvent basecoats flash way too fast. Colour match with the cheap paint is hit or miss and some colours just are not possible when they claim less tints in their system. You can mix it but its not even close.
You cannot get any of the old solvent basecoats here from a local supplier, does not matter who you are its not legal here in Ontario.
If your starting as an apprentice in the collision industry and you don't get any hands on you need to go to another shop.
... although I admit, my opinion and the opinion of the original poster might vary, my apologies if that is the case).