1939 Chevy 2 dr sedan...Camaro Clip

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

1939 Chevy 2 dr sedan...Camaro Clip

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

56 " track width on the 39 - 60 on the 57

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

do you know what the Camaro track width is?
thanks

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

Ok just looked up Camaro...its 61.5....quite a bit wider :( ...will this cause me allot of issues?
Steve

Lightspeed Mike · BELLEVILLE, ONT

Don't do it. The track is to wide and usually the spring rate is to much. Better off going with a Mustang 2 type front end. All kinds of different ones on the market.

Of course this is my opinion, others will vary. I have a 38 Chev and it won't be getting a camaro clip. I find the camaro clips are too wide and bulky to allow the front end to sit down where I like to see them sit.

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

knuckles wrote:
Ok just looked up Camaro...its 61.5....quite a bit wider :( ...will this cause me allot of issues?
Steve

It would work if you are using 38" mud tires..... not to good for street car. Not a big fan of clips and you are going to be hard pressed to find anything worth using thats that narrow. If you have your hart set on Ifs then take a look at Paul Hortons welder series - cross members. local guy with years of experience ....http://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/ws14540/

henrys57wagon · WOODLAWN, ONT

Have you looked into the S10 front clip? They use them in HenryJ's which have a track width of about 54.5. Merry Christmas.

Glen440 · AJAX, ONT

I don't know how well anything with a front mounted steering box will work in the 39. There is not much room ahead of the wheels. Mustang 2 would fit well.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

I also have done and prefer the chevy clip..I personaly hate the mustang steering ..I like the feel of the chevy ride and steering.. I would be looking for a pre 72 Nova or another of that body style..has rear steer box.. and can be narrowed if needed...I have done that to my 36 Chev. and I am also using a 68 Nova clip in my 48 Ford coupe.. either one works...I just prefer the feel and the ride of the Camaro clip..but not the front steering box ..they will not work and fit like crap..I believe all the midsize 68 to 72 Gms are rear steer box's they are getting harder to find..But if I done another one I would probably be looking to clip it to G.M. front clip..mustang steering sucks in my view..

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I used a NOVA frt. sub frame when I did my 38 Chevy yrs. ago. Laid the sub frame under the stock frame rails after cutting it off, lots of cross measuring before & after, fit well, no tire clearance problems even with Mags wheels!!! As said "too each his own"!!!!

toomuchjunk · S/W ONTARIO

I sort of agree with Chuk. The feel of a GM clip is probably a little nicer then the MII.
But I think the MII fits better than the GM. You can get it to sit better with the tire closer to the high spot of the fender with the MII.
I think if I was going to do it again I would investigate the bolt in system
.www.chassisengineeringinc.com/bolt-on-pinto-ifs-kit-1937-1939-chevy/
It's a little more money but you can have it in,,on wheels in a day.
The old saying have your wheels and tires first. Mock it up with them and that should tell you which system to use.
Think about it long and hard before you CUT your frame in HALF.
Just my opinion
TMJ

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

I have seen rear steer nova used on 30's chevy's and it seems to fit ok.

The S10 would work, but is front steer. The ones i measured out ended up being right around 55 inches track width. They are just narrowed metric GM chassis, so I would look there also as the S10 might be too narrow.

pint and a pound · GTA

Rear steer Camaro/Nova subframe would be the way to go. If you find that track width to be a bit much, you can either narrow the entire subframe or purchase a set of the aftermarket narrowed arms made for those subframes.

Might be a bit hard to find one of those rear steer subframes in good shape now though.

There is a chance that a (more easily sourced) front steer subframe could be converted to rack and pinion too I guess.

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

slim wrote:
knuckles wrote:
Ok just looked up Camaro...its 61.5....quite a bit wider :( ...will this cause me allot of issues?
Steve
It would work if you are using 38" mud tires..... not to good for street car. Not a big fan of clips and you are going to be hard pressed to find anything worth using thats that narrow. If you have your hart set on Ifs then take a look at Paul Hortons welder series - cross members. local guy with years of experience ....http://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/ws14540/

Thanks Everyone!...I like that you guys are so Knowledgeable about these sorts of things....I skipped on the deal for the Camaro clip......I will look for the Nova clip as it seems the most cost effective way to go....But I do really like the welderseries above....man that price is great...may be the way I go...

So I just tore into this project ....sigh, have to do the WHOLE floor new...ah well I love working on junk lol

pint and a pound · GTA

I don't think you've mentioned but I am guessing the Camaro subframe you were looking at is a front steer unit. Those subframes are wider than the earlier, rear steer ones as I recall. If I remember right, the later Camaro (front steer) width is 61.5, the early Camaro/Nova (with rear steer) is 60 and your car is 59 (but don't quote me on those numbers). The early 68-74 Nova subframe (rear steer) is basically identical to the early 67-69 Camaro subframe so don't limit your search to just a Nova subframe if that is the route you decide to take. Also keep in mind that the vast majority of early Camaro/Nova crossmembers had drums up front ... add more to the cost of the frame swap if you decide to convert to disc.

The Mustang II crossmember kit, bought as an already notched-to-fit-your-car will not fit your car if your car came with the early GM independant suspension ... if you have the solid axle in there, you're good to go. You can however, use a Mustang II kit if your car has the independant, but you will first have to replace the front frame rails with tubing then use a "universal" Mustang II crossmember kit that you notch to fit your application.

Keep in mind that the "pre-notched-to-fit" Mustang II crossmembers allow you to retain your original rails which also keeps the front body mount(s) and bumper mounts in their original location (and all the engineering is done for you as far as placement of the Mustang II crossmember. If you end up "subframing" with a Camaro or Nova front end, or "stubbing" with some rectangular tubing, it is up to you install the subframe or stubs so it is "true" (side to side, up and down) to the rest of the original frame AND located correctly front to rear so your wheels don't end up too far back or too far forward once the sheet metal is reinstalled.

Before you get in too deep, I'd suggest you crunch the numbers to determine what each method will cost, start to finish, and also take into account what you are capable of doing youself and what will need to be farmed out. Sure, the Mustang II crossmember on it's own is cheap (and all the engineering has been done which is HUGE), but Mustang II (or Pinto/Bobcat) parts cars aren't exactly plentiful if you don't already have the control arms, spindles, big disc kit,rack etc. As mentioned, cost it ALL out before you start so you have a much better idea what exactly you are getting into.

Best of luck.

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

Well guys thanks for all your advise...I bought a 69 Nova clip...in really great condition and with all new parts...it has drums, but for now that's fine...will upgrade once car is complete
I am glad I asked the questions...cost is a big factor as I am building more of a rat rod than a restored car so I am good with it
Cheers!

pint and a pound · GTA

That clip will be just fine being that it is rear steer (and in great condition). No rad/fender clearance issues with the front box and it will be very easy to connect up your steering column.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with running drums at all four corners either.

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

Just check to see if it is a six cylinder or V8 center link. They are different.

V8's have a dip in them for oil pan clearance, while 6 cylinder center links are straight. Use a 6 cylinder center link on a V8 with the short rubber original style mounts and it will rub the oil pan. I found this out on my 67' Camaro which uses the same subframe.

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

Yikes..I have no idea if it was a six cylinder yet...I pick it up Friday....

Does anyone have any pictures of a nova clip welded to a 37-39 chev frame?.....I have been googling it and there is very few photos....

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

if this is the clip looks like the centre link dips where the pan would be

$_20.JPG

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

In that pic, you can see the dip in the centerlink, making it a V8 centerlink.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

I don't see that as an issue to get a centre link for the V8..parts for these are plentiful..and I run drum brakes on my 48 Ford with the Nova clip..I had disc's on my 36 ..but my car is just a cruiser and not a race car so I find the drums work just fine for my old man sunday driving.. biggrin

pint and a pound · GTA

knuckles wrote:
Does anyone have any pictures of a nova clip welded to a 37-39 chev frame?.....I have been googling it and there is very few photos....

What you see in this pic is a later Camaro clip (front steer) installed in a mid-late fifties pickup. The basics of this install (overlapping the two frames) is how I saw a 1938 Olds done, except the Olds people used an early, rear steer clip like you are getting.

This is the same basic set up that dualquadpete speaks of in his earlier post.

Here is his quote: "I used a NOVA frt. sub frame when I did my 38 Chevy yrs. ago. Laid the sub frame under the stock frame rails after cutting it off, lots of cross measuring before & after, fit well, no tire clearance problems even with Mags wheels!!! As said "too each his own"!!!!

Here is a link to the site I got this pic from. Even though you car isn't a truck, you might find some useful tips on what to look for and what to look out for.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=409086

427CARL · CLINTON, ONT

GM cars

wheelbase front track rear trac

122.0, 58.31,59.25 - 1937 Buick Special
126.0, 58.31,59.25 - 1937 Buick Century
124.0, 58.0, 59.0 - All 1950 to 1954 GM 4 door cars
N/A,,, 59.1, 58.8 -- 1968-'74 Buick Apollo
112.0 coupe; 116.0 sedan,wagon; 61.5, 60.7 -- 1973-'77 Buick Regal
111.0, 59.1, 59.7 -- 1975 Buick Skylark
N/A,,, 59.0, 58.8 -- 1978-'86 Buick Century
115, 56.69, 58.75 -- 1949-'54 Chevy & Canadian Pontiac
115.0, 58.5, 60.0 -- 1955-'57 Chevy
108.1, 58.7, 60.5 -- 1967-'69 Chevy Camaro (other source shows 108.1/59.0/58.9)
108.1, 60.4, 61.0 -- 1970 Chevy Camaro
108.1, 58.9, 59.5 -- 1970-'73 Chevy Camaro Z-28
N/A,,, 61.3, 60.5 -- 1976-'80 Chevy Camaro Z-28, Pontiac Trans Am
101.1, 60.7, N/A, -- 1993-'02 Chevy Camaro
101.0, 60.7, 60.6 -- 1986 Chevy Camaro IROC Z
101.1, 60.7, 60.7 -- 1998 Chevy Camaro
112.3, 63.7, 64.1 -- 1999 Chevy Camaro LS, LT
112.3, 63.7, 63.7 -- 1999 Chevy Camaro SS
119.0, 62.5, 62.4 -- 1965-'70 Chevy Caprice
121.5, N/A,,, N/A -- 1971-'76 Chevy Caprice coupe/sedan
125.0, N/A,, 64.5 -- 1971-'76 Chevy Caprice station wagon
116.0, N/A,,, N/A -- 1977-'90 Chevy Caprice
115.9, 61.8, 60.7 -- 1991-'96 Chevy Caprice
112.0 coupe; 116.0 sedan,wagon, 61.5, 60.7 -- 1973-'77 Chevy Malibu, Laguna
102.0, 57.0, 59.0 -- 1954-'62 Chevy Corvette
N/A,,, 58.7, 59.5 -- 1968-'82 Chevy Corvette
N/A,,, 59.6, 60.4 -- 1984-'95 Chevy Corvette
108.0, 58.5, 58.8 -- 1978-'88 Chevy Monte Carlo, Malibu, El Camino (117.1 wheelbase), Olds Cutlass, Pontiac Grand Prix
111.0, 59.8, 59.6 -- 1968-'74 Chevy Nova
97.0, 54.7,, 53.6 -- 1971-'77 Chevy Vega, 1973-'77 Pontiac Astre, 1975-'80 Chevy Monza, Buick Skyhawk, Olds Starfire, 1976-'80 Pontiac Sunbird
112.0 coupe; 116.0 sedan,wagon, 61.5, 60.7 -- 1973-'77 Oldsmobile Cutlass, 442
112.0 coupe; 116.0 sedan,wagon, 61.5, 60.7 -- 1973-'77 Pontiac Grand Prix, LeMans
N/A,,, 58.9, 59.0 -- 1978-'86 Pontiac Grand Prix
115.0, N/A,,, N/A -- 1966 Pontiac GTO
N/A,,, 59.9, 59.6 -- 1968-'74 Pontiac GTO
112.25, 57.5, 59.0 -- 1939-'40 Chevy w/knee action shocks
112.25, 56.375, 59 -- 1939 Chevy w/I-beam front end

116.0, 57.6, 60.0 -- 1941-'48 Chevy

[edit]

-- Edited by 427CARL on Thursday 4th of December 2014 07:54:12 PM

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wheelbase, front track, rear track

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Wheelbase,_track_width,_and_differential_measurements

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

slim wrote:
if this is the clip looks like the centre link dips where the pan would be

Yes this IS the clip I just bought, he said he had a V8 in it so I guess could to go...was $400 but has allot of brand new everything on it...ball joints all new brakes, and all other components new.....

One thing I see others posted is they stated they laid the nova clip under the frame rails of a 38...however the nova clip is wider than the chevy frame so they cannot line up...hmmm, I have scoured the Internet but could not find a photo of a clipped 37-39 chev frame to get some ideas....

-- Edited by knuckles on Friday 5th of December 2014 11:06:53 PM

-- Edited by knuckles on Friday 5th of December 2014 11:07:52 PM

knuckles · WATERLOO, ONT

dualquadpete wrote:
I used a NOVA frt. sub frame when I did my 38 Chevy yrs. ago. Laid the sub frame under the stock frame rails after cutting it off, lots of cross measuring before & after, fit well, no tire clearance problems even with Mags wheels!!! As said "too each his own"!!!!

Any photos of the frame clipped? :)