,, first thing I would do is delete that post.... then I'd get an independent insurance agent to go to bat .. they know what to say..

 

I have had them attempt to deny 3 claims,,  they were not able to wiggle out of them.. an independent can tell you real facts, and get things done.. don't convince yourself with any excuses.... call one ...

someone like http://www.mooresappraisalservice.ca/ may be able to educate you on what they can do.. or refer you to an independant,, or what ever...

 

see dispute article .. http://www.mooresappraisalservice.ca/services.html

 

 

-- Edited by meester_jamie on Saturday 7th of February 2015 09:39:32 AM

This story sounds exactly like one I read a long time ago, on this site. If I remember, it was someone's daughters car and wiring started to smoke and melt. Far as I can recall, they had the exact same response ... "no fire? no claim". I think it was a Toyota and definitely not a collector car.

I'd be willing to bet that this is a general insurance policy, regardless of who insures you.

I'll try to search out that other post but it boiled down to this .... smoke and melted wires is not accepted under a "fire" clause.

 

Found it ..... http://www.ontariorodders.activeboard.com/t52287020/insurance/

 

 

 

-- Edited by pint and a pound on Saturday 7th of February 2015 09:56:09 AM

Lant Insurance Brokers offer specialized insurance for custom collector and antique vehicles in Ontario, British Columbia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, The Maritimes, Quebec and Alberta.

The Silver Wheel Plan and Custom Wheel Plan are their two main policies.

Lant Insurance is located in Stouffville, Ontario and the company was founded in 1978.

They originally had offices in Toronto but moved to Stouffville in 2002.

The company has 18 employees according to their website.

Lant is a subsidiary of Aviva Canada and their policies are underwritten by the Elite Insurance Company.

I had a car out for the first time spring 2013 and was hit in the back end. She destroyed the tail light housing badly, dented my back fender, small dent in the apron and bumper bars bent but lucky no main body damage. They could not find a replacement fender so Lant ok to fix the folded and ripped fender. The shop in Whitby did the metal work and were not allowed to paint it until the appraiser seen the metal work first. I had the car home for 4 weeks when I got a call from Lant insurance checking to see if everything was ok with the job and I was satisfied with the work as they had not payed the over $7,000. repair bill yet. I told them I found a chip in the porcelain on the medallion. About month later I got a call that they had a medallion for it. I cannot complain about Lant or Fawcett's service and work. It was outstanding as you could not fill a beer cap with the amount of plastic they used and the time frame to do it.

Smokin Joe wrote:

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I had a car out for the first time spring 2013 and was hit in the back end. She destroyed the tail light housing badly, dented my back fender, small dent in the apron and bumper bars bent but lucky no main body damage. They could not find a replacement fender so Lant ok to fix the folded and ripped fender. The shop in Whitby did the metal work and were not allowed to paint it until the appraiser seen the metal work first. I had the car home for 4 weeks when I got a call from Lant insurance checking to see if everything was ok with the job and I was satisfied with the work as they had not payed the over $7,000. repair bill yet. I told them I found a chip in the porcelain on the medallion. About month later I got a call that they had a medallion for it. I cannot complain about Lant or Fawcett's service and work. It was outstanding as you could not fill a beer cap with the amount of plastic they used and the time frame to do it.

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         Good reports    

         all the more reason, to ask Them,     why thy "blew off"  Petes little smoke and melting into the compartment 

So far it's the alternator, regulator, wiring harness & Possible battery!!! that's more than one component & could be more damage when they get further into it!!! It seems accident damage is a whole different thing!!! When it comes to electrical "smoke show" they won't cover it unless the car burns up & then it's looking "IFFY"

Smokin Joe wrote:

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I could be wrong and do not quote me on this but seeing there is no fire and just one component went. They may see it the same as your radio or transmission going.

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 my thoughts too

2drpost wrote:

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Smokin Joe wrote:

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I could be wrong and do not quote me on this but seeing there is no fire and just one component went. They may see it the same as your radio or transmission going.

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 my thoughts too

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Harness is fried back to where it goes into cabin, possibly further, as garage stopped there until insurance Co. returned their calls, never got a call back!!! 

Petebil wrote:

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What year is the Avanti? You did update the wiring, right? Any car older than 25 years old should have all it's wires replaced.

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        omg    your are correct     thats leaves a few thousand old cars in trouble     Mine is 49 years old

When Hagerty merged with Lant insurance, Tony Lant retired and his daughter took over the office. Tony was and is a car guy and would never treat his customers the way they do now. Hagerty is an American company with an army of lawyers just to fight the litigation issues. I was with Tony since he first started up but after he retired I switched to RSA through Zehrs in New Hamburg, car guys and Canadian.

-- Edited by oldkoot on Sunday 8th of February 2015 10:07:02 PM

dualquadpete wrote:

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I suggested going to after market wiring when garage couldn't locate a wire harness [before the claim was denied] They don't want to do it, said it will "de-value' the car by a great deal & being only 1 of a 127 built that yr.!!!!!!

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 What's the car worth now with fried wiring?

I had a wire fire....well, more of a bright glowing smoke show, in one of my '64 Galaxie 500s back in the '80s. I was at a gas station and tried to start it up after refilling. Apparently the ignition cylinder fell apart internally and shorted against the housing. I was in a panic to get the battery unhooked not so much to save the car or wiring, but more so because it was right at the pumps of a gas station!!!!

I towed it home with a rope (and a helper of course), pulled the dash apart, unwound all of the wire bundles from the battery to the ignition. Finding the shorted wire was easy, as it was the one with no insulation left on it! There were several other adjacent wires with compromised insulation so I replaced them too! After putting in abrand spanking new ignition switch and replacing all burnt wires, I capped off the project with a few pieces of fusable link to deter any further episodes. I drove the car for over 25 years after that off and on and still have it, although it has been parked for a few years now, I'd still trust it to drive daily - weather permitting

I'm reading above that if your wiring is 25 years old it needs to be replaced and I think that's a bit much. ....but it should be noted that cars built before fusable link should be retrofitted on all of the power leads from the battery/alternater with either fusable link or a modern power distribution fuseblock. Wiring in later cars built with fusable link have that failsafe to give you a little peace of mind and should be fine as long as there isn't obvious damage or deterioration on your original harness or insulation. I have no issues with spot repairs on invidual circuits either as long as they are done correctly - such as the starter/ignition wiring on GM products that tend to get "cooked" by the headers. You shouldn't have to rewire your whole car for a few brittle wires, but by the same token, if the rest of it has seen better days too, I'm not dead set against the awesome kits that are available these days.

-- Edited by Fordy Acres Car Farm on Monday 9th of February 2015 11:35:03 AM

dualquadpete wrote:

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I suggested going to after market wiring when garage couldn't locate a wire harness [before the claim was denied] They don't want to do it, said it will "de-value' the car by a great deal & being only 1 of a 127 built that yr.!!!!!!

---

 

What is the cost difference between an aftermarket harness that you install at home (since insurance won't pay for repairs), and having the shop "restore" the present harness? 

 

Using that same point of view of the shop, but from a different angle, regularly DRIVING a car that is 1 of 127 built that year will devalue it too.  Is this thing a "museum piece" to you or are you more interested in putting some miles on it and getting some real enjoyment out of it?  Along those same lines ... how original is the car now?  Has it already lost enough of it's "originality" that a wiring harness wouldn't really matter?

How old is the car now?  What is it's true collector value at this point?  Will this car ever really command BIG $$$ if it is totally original, in the future?  Some cars will, some cars won't.  

 

If the car, to you, is just a source of enjoyment and not an investment that you hope will triple in value every year you own it, I'd say fix it whichever way YOU want to and let the next owner worry about absolute originality.  Keep the original fuse block and wiring harness (melted wires included) in a box, so it can be given to the next owner as a pattern IF they feel it's needed.

 

 

 

 

If nothing else....a battery disconnect switch.

Had the same thing happen 20 years ago.....but lost the whole car! (67 mustang)

(yes Steve i have owned a F F F F ord before)

From that time forward I have not owned or built a car (classic, muscle, rod....ect)

That I have not installed one in....cheap...inconspicuous and does not alter original wiring.....

And....the last 7 cars I have built...I use aftermarket wiring harnesses....100%..stupid proof

again...cheap easy and gets rid of 50 year old wiring with new proper guage wiring

Just saying

I do the same Cat, aftermarket wiring harness (Keep It Clean) and I always install a battery disconnect within arms reach of the drivers seat!

Talked to Aviva today, still refuse to cover it, 3rd. party adjusters word Goes!!!! Aviva has no adjusters & sublet this out to other Companies!!! Also said that the policy I have thru Lant / Haggarty, which is their "standard policy" does not cover electrical "mal-functions" nor resulting damage & Lant's should have explained this & it's not written anywhere that I can see in coverage Just says Fire etc. BUT they where willing to "upgrade' to a coverage that "might" cover it & a higher premium!!!!! SO check with your insurance coverage, what you think is good May not be, & even if it does BURN if it's electrical cause your S O L with Aviva!!! Just cancelled my house & " Burban" insurance with my Broker in Oshawa, & told them "ANYBODY but AVIVA" Talking to other Classic Car brokers & they have "NEVER" heard of this, & 3 have said 'where there's smoke there's fire & none deal with AVIVA!!!!! Also said they are getting more inquires from Lant. customers since Haggarty's came to take over & service has gone for a $hit. Wonder if a house fire from an electrical problem would be S O L TOO?????

You can't see or read it because they make it up as they go. I spent 3 months dealing with these a$$ hats over a stolen truck with the proper replacement ridder .Oh and there was only one other truck in Ontario that they could replace it with.Good thing it was only my work truck not that anyone needs to work.

Small claims court!

$75 to file

Worth it to serve them and have them squirm

Show in court where this bs about electrical is

They miight settle out of court

Pm me with your number i will explane how

To file for small claims court. Easy peasy

Let them fight that !

Cheaper for them to settle than fight it

For $75 and a few hours of your time

To me ...... Id do it. Just for the satisfaction

i am with chris on this one. when my policies came due last year with aviva/lant i inquired about needing current appraisals and they informed me that i was good to go, not needed. i found it odd as when the cars were first appraised some years ago, 4-5, the policy stated i would need new ones at the 5yr mark. 2 of the 4 insured cars are valued over 50 grand each. i just sent the cheque and drove on. not this year though after hearing all the stories of late. as i get them out they will be appraised and i will be shopping for a carrier with stated coverages. i am guessing it all boils down to the old saying of, you get what you pay for. i am going to take the historic plates off also as they are to restrictive for how i want to use my cars. if i want to jump in and just go for a drive and not have to be thinking about what show i am headed for or what test drive i am on, its horse crap. if you were just on a drive somewhere and there was a mishap of sorts it would probably give the insurance company an out as your plates didn't cover just a good cruise in the country somewhere.
-
we get what we pay for.

I too was told " No appraisal required " . I can just imagine asking them to fork over 5 figures for a '51 Chev with no documentation , if it burned or was stolen . -- Yeah Right !!! I STILL have a current appraisal and am now insured with a CANADIAN company ( local office ) who also holds my general home insurance , and the agreeded value does not decay between renewals -- The price was within the price of a burger . If I have a concern , I talk directly to my rep -- Hope this helps -- LATER -- DON / FLEET 51

I have been hearing some rumors about Hagerty and the agreed value insurance policies.
Apparently, you can set your own value for insurance purposes.
What I'm hearing is, if there's a claim, they will ask for proof of the vehicles value. If you can't prove its worth, then they say it was over insured and threaten insurance fraud.
I think that getting a yearly appraisal is well worth the cost. Once the initial appraisal is done, the subsequent appraisals are easy to write provided there are not a lot of upgrades or changes and are usually a lot cheaper to reproduce.
Appraisals, protect your investment!!!

My 2 cents

What can also happen is if you under insure your car and it is damaged. Rater than fix it they can pay you for the car as a wright off and take the car then resell at a profit. Yes this has happened in the past with insurance companies.

dualquadpete wrote:

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Slim, so if I read this "right" with no lic. appraisal Haggarty's claim of not needing this for their 19A coverage, will come back to "bite' you in the A$$

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Never seen a policy from Haggartys but it would have to state on it some were  ridder 19A to be covered . here are a few of the following posts. 

Auto Appraiser PORT DOVER, ONT Status: Offline Posts: 11 Date: Jul 10, 2013

Permalink Reply Quote   Printer Friendly I have found that Crosslands is the best.... Number 1 they don't lie!!! Number 2 they are Canadian.Number 3 they are the cheapest.Number 4 they don't gouge your pocket with hidden cost. Yes they require appraisals. They only way to receive the full value on your claim is if your car is appraised. It is the only way to get a OPCF 19a. Which guarantees you get the price on the appraisal.   Hagerty is trying to get out of paying by making sure you don't have a witness on the value of your car.  __________________ "The Ladies always love a HOT ROD!!! Golden Horseshoe Classic & Rod Classic & Rod Auto Appraisers Facebook Page

 

Auto Appraiser PORT DOVER, ONT Status: Offline Posts: 11 Date: Jul 10, 2013

Permalink Reply Quote   Printer Friendly OPCF 19 "Actual Cash Value": O.P.C.F. #19 Actual Cash Value. Limiting the Amount Paid for Loss or Damage Coverage. This form limits the amount payable to the actual cash value or the amount stated on the form, whichever is less. ACTUAL CASH VALUE is the market trend and depreciation value combined limiting the amount paid by the insurance company. OPCF 19A "Agreed Value": O.P.C.F. #19A Agreed Value of Automobiles. This form provides coverage for an automobile on a stated value basis. Professional appraisals are required to substantiate the value as per rules of FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION OF ONTARIO. You are not eligible for a 19A in Ontario without a licensed appraisal. I even have confirmation from Brad May of the Financial Services Commission of Ontario. That if Hagerty is issuing OPCF19a's without Appraisals the will be charged under the Commissions law... So please E-Mail me your agreement where it says you are covered under and OPCF 19a. bryan@classicandrod.com  __________________ "The Ladies always love a HOT ROD!!! Golden Horseshoe Classic & Rod Classic & Rod Auto Appraisers Facebook Page

pete, can you take digital photo and email it to them ? i sometimes do that with documents.