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Post Info TOPIC: Four link suspension


BRIGHTON, ONT

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Four link suspension
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Ok guys, just wondering what s the best /easiest style f four link suspension to put in ?  Where can I get these parts, hopefully local? Is there anything that I need to know?



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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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Welder series from Paul Horton.

Warren

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BRIGHTON, ONT

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That's funny , Warren I was just reading the online catalog from them. Lots of cool stuff. Are four links hard to figure out, when you have never done one?


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CLINTON, ONT

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GTA

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It would be easier to answer if you included what vehicle you intend to install one in and what that vehicle will be used for.



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BRIGHTON, ONT

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I'm helping a buddy put it in his hot rod . He has a 32 ford cab that he is fabricating and not quite sure if it is going on a built frame or an s10 frame. Will be just a driver not a racer. So I was thinking just a parallel 4 link would be ok. Am I wrong to think this?

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S/W ONTARIO

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then you will have to run a panhard bar unless you go with a triangulated system.

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NORFOLK COUNTY, ONT

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Or a diagonal track locator or a wishbone set-up

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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What body style? What drive train? Full fender, hiboy or channelled? What suspension is he running? Coils? Transverse? Why not run radius rods, they are so much cleaner on a rod? Look at Speedway, they have all kinds of rear four bar or radius rod setups.

Warren

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BRADFORD, ONT

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You can cut the leaf springs behind the rear axle and install Coilovers. A panhard rod is a good choice. If you want to change to ladder bars or wishbones measure from leaf mounting bolts to axle for correct length, or, prepare for new mounts for front end of ladder bars/wishbones. The spring swap meets start shortly.
That clipped leaf spring & coilover setup is popular with Fox Mustangs for better hook up.

Lindblad has coilovers starting at $120 U.S. each. Lahr's Speed & Custom also starting at $179.95 U.S. per pair.

the Kid

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BRIGHTON, ONT

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Thanks guys, I will have to get together with my friend and get some answers.

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Gwillyville Kid wrote:

You can cut the leaf springs behind the rear axle and install Coilovers. A panhard rod is a good choice. If you want to change to ladder bars or wishbones measure from leaf mounting bolts to axle for correct length, or, prepare for new mounts for front end of ladder bars/wishbones. The spring swap meets start shortly.
That clipped leaf spring & coilover setup is popular with Fox Mustangs for better hook up.

Lindblad has coilovers starting at $120 U.S. each. Lahr's Speed & Custom also starting at $179.95 U.S. per pair.

the Kid


   

 

Could you please include a much more detailed explanation of this 'popular' suspension modification please.  I am completely confused by what has been written above.  Including a link to a site that shows what you are talking about would be great.  The way I'm reading it, it almost sounds like you are saying "just chop off parallel leafs behind the axle, add a panhard bar and coil-overs and you're good to go".  You also mention this is a popular modification on Fox body Mustangs ... I have never in my life seen a Fox body Mustang with parallel leaf rear suspension (factory or otherwise).  BTW, I do understand "quarter elliptic" leaf suspension, and what (I think) you are describing is definitely not a correctly set up quarter elliptic suspension.  Obviously I am completely misreading what you have written, so a more detailed explanation (or link) would really be appreciated. 



-- Edited by pint and a pound on Monday 23rd of March 2015 01:11:24 PM

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Mr Samis wrote:

I'm helping a buddy put it in his hot rod . He has a 32 ford cab that he is fabricating and not quite sure if it is going on a built frame or an s10 frame. Will be just a driver not a racer. So I was thinking just a parallel 4 link would be ok. Am I wrong to think this?


 

"32 Cab" suggests a pick-up truck cab.  If he runs an S10 frame (which is admittedly, not a popular choice of chassis for a '32 Ford), I'd just stick with the S10 parallel leaf suspension it already has.  Not sure how good a job '32 fenders will do of hiding the front suspension from view (if that's his intention), or how "acceptable to the masses" an S10 suspension will look without fenders, on a '32 Ford though .... IF that even matters to the builder/owner (which it really shouldn't, although it will definitely be reflected in the resale value, if and when the time comes to sell it).

 









-- Edited by pint and a pound on Monday 23rd of March 2015 01:14:26 PM

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BRADFORD, ONT

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You understand that setup correctly. The Fox Mustang guys add a traction bar like the Cal Tracs and achieving better traction. I read about this modification in a Drag Racing Publication. The writer had attended a Fast Fords event and noticed this mod on several of the winning 10.5" cars.
In the case of the '32 body on pickup frame, this work would avoid the rear of the S-10 frame sticking out further than the body. The leaf springs could be changed to ladder bars, or similar, the coilovers would provide the necessary suspension. I have never owned a Fox Mustang, you might be correct about the factory spring setup. This what I read. I have seen this mod on hot rods. It makes sense.

the Kid

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GTA

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I have never heard of Fox Mustang guys removing the factory link suspension and replacing them with half leaf springs while "springing" the car with either the factory coil springs or coil-over shocks.

Suspending a vehicle with either coil springs and shocks or coil-over shocks (and a pan hard bar) while using partial leaf springs in place of ladder bars or a four link, or wishbones, or a "truck arm" suspension does not make any sense to me either. Can it be done? Sure, it "can" be done. Does it make any sense? Definitely not to me.

I can honestly say I have never seen this done on any car ... ever ... rod, racer, anything.

A quarter elliptic spring set up will work as long as there are separate, extra links that prevent axle rotation, but that is definitely not what you are describing.

Not the end of the world here .... just two differing opinions  biggrinbiggrin

 

Cheers



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S/W ONTARIO

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under a small car/truck like a 32 I would want to make it as clean and simple as possible.
There are as many '32's out there now as there was in 32 or 33.
Just guessing but I think a good percentage of them have a 4 link be it triangulated or not.
Don't reinvent the wheel.
Take a look under a S10 and then look under a 32 with link type suspension.
Just my opinion


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TORONTO, ONT

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A parallel four bar system is the easiest to install. Just buy the brackets and make the bars. For the street run a panhard or watts link. Wishbones are nosy and diagonal links break too easily compared to the panhard or watts.

You can also do a triangulated 4 link but you have to make sure the arc of movement for all the links is the same or you will have binding. Or you can do what the factories do and use large soft bushings that deflect to allow the different arcs of motion.

A quarter eliptical spring setup with coil overs is just a bad idea. Don't do it. Too many places that flex. Replace the quarter eliptic springs with ladder bars if you are going to do that. I don't really like ladder bars on the street, but they work.

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MILTON, ONTARIO

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I would do a triangulated four link (all bars adjustable) and make the yoke of the triangulated link free to move in and out of a receiver yoke. Keep the yoke lubricated.



-- Edited by Dick Kirkpatrick on Wednesday 25th of March 2015 04:57:27 PM

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DORCHESTER, ONT

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Maybe this would help to clear things up a bit: FOX BODIED MUSTANGS ARE FROM 1979 TO 1993 and had a factory 4 link set up and wouldn't use the Cal Tracs system or leaf springs.

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GTA

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Fordy Acres Car Farm wrote:

Maybe this would help to clear things up a bit: FOX BODIED MUSTANGS ARE FROM 1979 TO 1993 and had a factory 4 link set up and wouldn't use the Cal Tracs system or leaf springs.


 

 

That is exactly why the other posters comment was so confusing and why I asked for a link to any article showing this "popular" modification.  



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TORONTO, ONT

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Dick Kirkpatrick wrote:

I would do a triangulated four link (all bars adjustable) and make the yoke of the triangulated link free to move in and out of a receiver yoke. Keep the yoke lubricated.



-- Edited by Dick Kirkpatrick on Wednesday 25th of March 2015 04:57:27 PM


This will not work.  You would have no control over pinion angle.

The triangulation of the triangulated links would basically put them into a bind if you use standard rod ends or bushings.  You would need to use spherical rod ends, and you would be relying on the rod ends ability to pivot to able to move the upper bars.  Now you have two different problems - side loading the spherical rod ends (they don't last long doing that) and the fact that the upper bars can change in length, giving you zero control of the pinion angle.

The only way to make this work is the fix the rear of the bar to the axle so that the axle cannot rotate.   Now you basically have a ladder bar with a poorly designed wishbone.

 

I have installed ladder bars in a few fox mustangs, both were tubbed track cars so they just had a diagonal locator.  Used coil overs and Chris Alston bars.  

 

 



-- Edited by RacerRick on Monday 6th of April 2015 04:42:56 PM

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KINGSTON, ONT

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Only if you wish, try calling myself "Candy's Hot Rod Supply"...

Just a thought... Thx....

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LONDON, ONT

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Daimler sp dart 250s had a half sprung with shocks & centre point a frame same as d type race jag,s, was that good they cleaned up at le man for years. depends what way u set it up

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MILTON, ONTARIO

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Racer Rick:
Try telling a few hundred drag racers and builder FJ Smith that that setup won't work.
My 55 chev drag car used that exact setup and to change the pinion angle you adjust the length of the upper and lower (adjustable) bars.

I should make myself clearer on this. The triangular bar is an axle locater. The rest of the setup is a normal adjustable 4 link.



-- Edited by Dick Kirkpatrick on Friday 10th of April 2015 10:59:33 AM

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Dick Kirkpatrick wrote:

I would do a triangulated four link (all bars adjustable) and make the yoke of the triangulated link free to move in and out of a receiver yoke. Keep the yoke lubricated.  

I should make myself clearer on this. The triangular bar is an axle locater. The rest of the setup is a normal adjustable 4 link.

 

 

A true "triangulated" four link does not need any kind of "axle locator" bar (above and beyond the two upper and two lower links) due to it's design as the angled bars prevent the rear from moving side-to-side (many GM vehicles used this very suspension).

It sounds to me like you (D. Kirkpatrick) are describing a drag specific four link suspension (where all four bars are parallel with the center line of the chassis) that is also equipped with a wishbone locator to prevent the rear end from moving side-to-side.

 

Yellow frame/suspension shows a triangulated "street" four link .... bare metal frame shows a typical "drag car" all-four-bars-parallel-to-the-center-line-of-the-chassis, fully adjustable four link suspension PLUS a "wishbone locator" where the "wishbone is attached to the top of the rear end housing at one point, and attaches to the horizontal cross member, above the drive shaft loop at two points.  I have also included a pic of a wishbone locator on its own ... you can see where one tube fits inside a slightly larger tube (this is the slip joint) where the two "bones" meet to form the "wishbone", allowing forwards-backwards movement or the rear end during suspension travel (due to the rear end travelling in a slight arc), while eliminating side-to-side movement. 

 

 

 

 

 drag fourlink.jpg      real wishbone.jpg

 

triangulated four link.jpg      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 






-- Edited by pint and a pound on Friday 10th of April 2015 05:06:31 PM

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BRIGHTON, ONT

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I really like the yellow style! Simple and to the point !

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MILTON, ONTARIO

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Pint and a pound: Exactly what I was referring to except the 4 bars are not parallel.

Thank you, good pictures.

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GTA

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Dick Kirkpatrick wrote:

Pint and a pound: Exactly what I was referring to except the 4 bars are not parallel.

Thank you, good pictures.


 

 

Just curious .... not parallel when looking down on them from above, or not parallel when viewing them from the side?  

 

With all of the adjustment available with a race four link, and the ability (or need) to change the location of the "instant center", I agree that bars are not parallel when viewed from the side (like in the pic below), but I've never seen a drag specific four link suspension where the bars weren't parallel to the center line of the chassis. 

 

drag car.jpg

 

 



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GTA

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Here is a pic I have copy/pasted directly from FJ Smiths site. The item pictured is a Grand Am Rear Sub-assembly.

This assembly uses a four link suspension, with a wishbone locator (you can see the wishbone in the pic). You can't see the actual four link bars as they are mostly hidden by the frame rails. However, all four of the bars run parallel to the center line of the chassis, neither the upper or the lower bars are installed at an angle (when viewed from the top) like a GM inspired "triangulated" four bar (refer back to the yellow frame in my earlier post).

fj smith.JPG

Here is the text taken from FJ's site in regards to this photo:

Custom designed rear sub-assembly kits include:   

  • rear frame section sub-assembly of 2" x 3" x .083" tubing with full crossmember    
     •rear frame rails    
     •full width dropped crossmember with brackets and tubing    
    Smith Performance Specialties 4-link rear suspension complete with:    
     •laser cut º” brackets    
     •seamless links are 1º" x 095" chrome moly "Pro Stock" style links with left and right hand adjustments 
     •precision fit teflon lined rod ends    
     •wishbone track locator    
     •all hardware, plated Grade 8 or precision AN with nylock nuts
  • •specify equal or unequal length 4-link


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MILTON, ONTARIO

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I know they are parallel if you are speaking front to back.
I am not referring to that when I say they are not parallel, I am referring to the side view.
That is how you change the pinion angle and the instant centre of the car.
That is also one of the reasons that there are 4 or 5 attachment points at the rear axle and at the crossmember.
Too bad there is not a sideview in Fred's illustrations.

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TORONTO, ONT

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Ok, I understand now Dick Kirkpatrick. You are describing a parallel four link with a wishbone track locator. They are usually setup with the bottom bars parallel to the ground, and generally the upper bars are used to adjust your instant center. That is standard drag race stuff and I have had a couple of cars setup like that.

How the industry describes these suspensions is like this:

A parallel four link means that the axle locators are parallel to the frame rails. All four links of this design need some sort of device to control side to side movement - like a diagonal bar, watts link, panhard, or wishbone.

A triangulated four link, means that one pair of bars (usually the uppers) is canted in or out (usually in) to control side to side movement without the need for another link.

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MILTON, ONTARIO

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We understand each other Rick, and as far as each individual race car is concerned, the lower bars are usually installed so the front of the bar is SLIGHTLY lower than the back. (pointing down just a bit)
That is how my 55 chev was set up and that thing would hook like mad.

I think we have beat this to death so I will bow out.



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TORONTO, ONT

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I always put the lower bar in the middle adjustment hole, then weld the bracket on so the bar is parallel to the ground, and the upper bar on a downward angle so the imaginary lines if you extended the bars would meet (your instant center) about three feet in front of the front bumper. This usually is a good safe place to start and gives lots of adjustability while maintaining the lower bar in its strongest plane. The location of the instant center is the important part really, not the angle of the bars.

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