The Bucket List

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

The Bucket List

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

will the 283 you have be able to safely go to a 4 inch bore ?

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

studeshaker wrote:
will the 283 you have be able to safely go to a 4 inch bore ?

Back in the day there was an abundance of 301 / 283s running in the Niagara area. There was1 56 Chevvy in St. Catharines that was especially nasty. You just knew when he fired it up it was a real runner, it sounded fast just idling, and it ran even faster. I ran him once at the Quarries and all I can say is ,, nice taillights.

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

i had buddies that ran 301's in circle track cars. if memory serves, the earlier 283's would take a 4 inch bore but not the later ones.

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

studeshaker wrote:
i had buddies that ran 301's in circle track cars. if memory serves, the earlier 283's would take a 4 inch bore but not the later ones.

You could be right there. If I can remember the 301 in the 56 Chevvy I ran was a 1962 engine. He said it was a "scrap" engine he got out of the St. Kitts plant. Funny how well that scrap engine ran.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

studeshaker wrote:
will the 283 you have be able to safely go to a 4 inch bore ?

Yes.

I looked up the block numbers, its a newer one.

I think it was pre- 54 or 55 that couldn't be bored out.

There is an extensive article on Wikipedia for SBC.

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

the 283 was produced from 57-67. the 58-62 blocks can be bored to 4 inch. the 63-67 are a thinner wall block and will not take more than .060 overbore.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

I was under the impression it was only the 58 and under blocks that started as 265"s that couldn't be bored.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Thnx for the info on that.
I will look up that casting number again.
The bore and piston job is on the nice-to have later as I go list.
I am putting together a list of need to have first.
Headers are on the top of the list right now because I need to get them mocked up so I can mount/mock up the steering box and column.

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Intrepid wrote:
I was under the impression it was only the 58 and under blocks that started as 265"s that couldn't be bored.

My 1st engine was a 1956 Chev 265. It was bored 1/8 to 283 cu in , Duntov Cam, and 4 barrel 57 ford AFB Carb . It ran real well and had no overheating problems.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Well according to this chart.. Hope its right.
www.jimsperformance.com/blocks.html
my 3849852 Block is the first one listed is a 58-62 ..hope I am good.
Bad news is, the powepack heads that are on it are going to cost 6-700 to have the hardened valve seats and get finished.
Do you guys know what heads were on those 301-302 motors in the trans am series?
Probably bowtie's eh ?
I just think it would be cool to have a period correct Trans-Am series motor.

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

the period correct 67 -69 chevy 302 used a 327 block and 283 crank.

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

Seems to me that the 67/68 had large journal crank, and 69 had small-------or the other way around

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

parklane wrote:
Seems to me that the 67/68 had large journal crank, and 69 had small-------or the other way around

yup, other way around, they went to large journal in mid 68.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

True,
It won't be period correct.
And maybe I shouldn't bore it too much without having the 4 bolt main, larger journal's, better rods ..etc..
But I am getting the heads done, or getting some camel humps.
Definitely getting the Duntov 30-30 cam and solid lifters.
The sprint style headers are immanent, I am either making a long drive west to pick up a deal or ordering a set of raw steels from summit.
I might have a deal on a fuel cell out of a boat next weekend if its the right dimensions, I need 30"X12"X9" 15 gallon to fit in the back nice.
I almost have the electrical drawings done, with a battery and breaker panel in the back and will be ordering that stuff shortly.
I added provisions in the breaker panel for push button start, front break locker, and fuel cut off. (I might post them for the community).

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Anybody know a good spot close to Peterborough to get a set of ford axles filled in and re-drilled to chevy?

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

Use your power pack heads and don't worry about hardend exhaust seats. Your light bucket and sprint car headers will never heat up the exhaust valve and seat to cause a problem. The small valves and ports in the heads will make a torquey street motor. 80-85 305 heads are better, have hard exhaust seats, and small chambers - look for castings ending in the numbers 601 and 416 for old school perimeter style valve covers.

If you want to make a traditional 301 screamer however...

Back in the day, the 301's generally used double hump heads, heavily milled to bring down the chamber size and flattops, or big popup pistons. The flattop is much better for flame travel and if you get a set angle milled to roll the valves over, it will increase flow by getting the valves more optimally located. The 4" bore will allow 2.02/1.60 valves without a problem and helps unshroud them.

Don't worry about a 4 bolt block, but if you are going to spin it above 6500 rpm, get it balanced. If you are going to go above 7000rpm I would get a set of inexpensive rods like the SCAT's. Cheap insurance. Get a real cam in it - forget the old Duntov solid. Modern hydralics will make more power with no maintenance, and modern solids will seriously outpower it.

I would go for 10:1 compression (flattops, a shim head gasket, and about a 55cc chamber will get you 10:1) , a good hydralic cam (maybe something like the Comp Cams XE268), a set of good flowing heads, and if you setup the valve train correctly you will be able to spin it to 7000rpm and probably never have to touch it.

Barchetta · TORONTO, ONT

My suggestion regarding the engine.

Toss in any old (good running) SBC (after giving it a timing chain and some gaskets), get the bucket up and running, build the engine you really want AFTER you've got the bucket on the road.

I recommend doing the same with the rear end, trans etc ...... get the car running and driving, spend the money on the gear ratio you want, trans mods/rebuild etc. If you take the time and money to make every part 'perfect', chances are the build will take a LONG time, during which you could quite easily lose interest/motivation.

Just something to think about.

As for the need to drill your axles, since you only have the rear rims at the moment anyways (meaning you still need to find matching front rims) I'd be inclined to sell the two wheels you have and go find a full set of wheels that you can use without having to drill the axles.

-- Edited by Barchetta on Thursday 2nd of July 2015 09:30:29 PM

51 Styline · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

There are several small block Chevvy motors listed here in the " Parts" section that could be built up at a reasonable cost and wouldn,t need all the emission crap.

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

I have a couple of pairs of cragars in 14x6 that would work for the front end. One pair is pretty good, and the other pair is only ok. I also have some 15x10 and 15x8 reverse cragars that are pretty good. All are unilug so the bolt pattern doesn't matter.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

I agree Barchetta,
I really want to focus on getting the rolling chassis into a running vehicle.
So for the short term future I am just going to take the heads off, timing chain cover off, and clean everything.
So first things first.
Ordering headers this week.
This will allow me to mock up the steering box relocation and get the column located, that will allow me to get the dash mocked up and start on the electrical.

RacerRick I like that idea too for the 301 build for the future.

I have some 15X10 Cragars (Westerns) that are unilug but they don't seem to fit.
I really want to go 15X6 on the front so I can easily find matching tires.
I have been doing some looking and eventually want 15X12 on the back.
The only tires I can find that match 15X12 and 15X6 are Mickey's and Hoosier's, no one seems to be making sizes in the 14's that match the bigger tires for the back.
Trend seems to be towards larger rims like 17's - 20's

Honestly what I want are just some steels I can put a small chrome cap in the center.
So to be on the cheap and get rolling I would probably be better off just finding some 15X12 ford steels for the back and some 15X6 chev steels for the front.
That way I can buy the rubber and upgrade the rims later.

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

Most aftermarket steel rims have both bolt patterns. I believe the 15x12's are about $140 each.

What is your 8" rear out of? If its a car it would be 4.5" x 5. but if it was some oddball our of a truck, it might be 5.5" x 5. What is the width of the rear from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface?

Take the oil pan off your motor also, because all the chunks of the stuff and chemicals used for cleaning will settle into the pan. If you are that far into it, check the timing chain and replace it if needed. Cheap insurace since a new timing chain is only about $20.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Its 4.5 X 5, bolt pattern, I have one of those plastic gauge things I use for Barrie flee market.
Its about 59" from surface to surface mounting point.
The oil pan use to be chrome, now its a rusty POS, obviously a cheap one, not much of the other chrome rusted like that did.
And the heads haven't had valve covers on them for a long time so the critters have taken all the stuffing out of the seat and made homes in the heads and intake.
So its a tear down and clean up.
Will check on the timing chain.
I thought about switching it over to gears but my uncle says they whine so much it would drive you nuts on a trip.

RacerRick · TORONTO, ONT

If it was mice in the valve covers, their urine will make stuff rust like you wouldn't believe. Stuff it like acid. They also make it nice and humid in the motor so there is lots of condensation, not to mention the mouse turds everywhere. I would buy a full gasket kit and tear the motor down to the short block to check for nests and damage. If the motor will turn over, you probably don't have to pull the heads, but if it is stuck - pull them.

I would swap the 8" ford rear out for an 8.8" out of an explorer if you want to change the rear. Its also 4.5" bolt pattern, comes both drum or disk, limited slips are common, most are good gear ratios - 3.27 to 4.10 depending on the model, its approx the same width, and they are dirt cheap.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

I think I figured out the Uni Lug issue.
I need longer studs, the proper offset washers, and the proper flat surface lug nuts to make them work.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Had the drive shaft made up at Goodwin Metal Products ..fits like a glove.
Before I bolt it home I was thinking of that 8" rear end and decoded the data tag, turns out to be 2 79 gear out of a 70-73 Comet or a 71-74 maverick.
Is there a cheap way to add the limited slip ?
Guessing the cheapest way would be to find one at the swap meet and switch out the guts ?

Chris Stapley · CAMPBELLFORD, ONT

I would start with Bruce Custom Fabrications out on Chemo g Road in Peterborough,if they dont do this service,they will have someone locally who will!

Intrepid wrote:
Anybody know a good spot close to Peterborough to get a set of ford axles filled in and re-drilled to chevy?

studeshaker · BUCKHORN, ONT

x2

toomuchjunk · S/W ONTARIO

Chris Stapley wrote:
I would start with Bruce Custom Fabrications out on Chemo g Road in Peterborough,if they dont do this service,they will have someone locally who will!
Intrepid wrote:
Anybody know a good spot close to Peterborough to get a set of ford axles filled in and re-drilled to chevy?

I don't want to derail the original post but I think the guy from Bruce Custom grew up in London.

I think it was around 1970 in the east end. He had a real wild looking bright yellow '64-'65 Chevelle gasser

TMJ

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Thanks for the info guys.
Hey guys.. I if I did swap it out for an 8.8 would my new drive shaft still be ok ?
I should have checked the damn data tag first, gota have a limited slip on a rod like this an open diff makes no sense.

Chris Stapley · CAMPBELLFORD, ONT

Actually,light car like that may benefit from open diff,very hard to steer a light one otherwise!

henrys57wagon · WOODLAWN, ONT

If your just driving it around then I would not install a posi, and all the work to build and install another diff. My 57 wagon with a BBlock is an open diff. I do have a rebuilt posi carrier for it but for now I'm happy as it is.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

All true, and I Can wait for the engine rebuild (not the tear down of the heads, clean up and gaskets) but I have to tear down the rear end now, its 45 ish years old and I bet its never had the fluid changed.
So gasket set minimum, bearings, re-drill for chev bolt pattern while its apart, why not do it now when its apart rather than tear it all down and do it later.
Options seem slimmer now that I got the drive shaft fit.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Headers on .. seats mocked up .. working on the steering box placement and column.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

So my reverse Saginaw steering box won't work in the location I want to put it.
It was intended for the floor column.
Is it a standard Saginaw box I should be looking for or is there a better one ?

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

On another note .. I figured out where the bucket came from.
A place called Norglass, Fiberglass Products, Stony Creek Ontario, Tom Atherton.
Anybody remember and or have info about this company?
Google brings nothing.
It seems like a quality product.

Ninop69 · THORNHILL, ONT

It's hard to make out in the photos but it looks like you have enough room in the frame and under the headers to put a F1 box there. Make sure you mount it in line with your hairpins/radius rods to keep steering geometry in check.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Ok I think the box I have will work, I just need to reverse it.
I think it is a standard saganaw box.
Any tips on reversing these things?
I read CCR in California had a bearing and seal kit, is there anything closer?

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Ok well sounds easy enough, and I quote from hotrodders.com "easier than passing a Congressional wage increase" lol
I'll post some before and after pics.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Ok back to work .. truck needed some attention and the picked the money tree clean.
Back onto the steering box.
The Saginaw stamping threw me off, its an old corvair box. 64 I think because its the cast aluminum type.
Will not come apart so far.
The bolt heads busted off trying to get the cover off.
Funny thing is I heard the pitman arm was the hardest thing to get off and it came off easy.
Been soaking this thing down with WD for weeks hoping I wouldn't break anything.
Going to look for one already reversed this upcoming Lindsay meet.
If not, to the machine shop and see if they can deal with it.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Prelim electrical design, still need to add the Nitro Arm, Nitro Purge circuit along with more detail for the stereo and USB charge.
www.jeffw.ca/Bucket/Electrical/Electrical.zip

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Not trying to be critical, but I think you are making it far too complicated.
I counted at least 10 relays, it's a T bucket, not a Rolls-Royce. You could probably
eliminate half of those relays. Nice drawings though!

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

You are right, I could, if I was tight on space I could probably reduce the breakers and relays down to half that.
But it's not complicated for me, its what I do every day, and I had room in the box for the extra ones.
I just posted it really as information, maybe help some one that's trying to design a circuit for their rod.

Thanks on the "Nice drawings though!"

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

After I repaint the block I want to replace all the frost plugs with aluminum ones.
Is there a trick to getting the old ones out and popping in the new ones??

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Chips,
The circuit is just provisional at this time, incase I ever do one of those Run What Ya Brung deals at a track.
I don't think I would even put on a dummy tank just due to the heat score it would cause.
My days of road racing are long behind me.
Hell I probably won't even burn the tires out due to the cost of the damn things. (well maybe once just to get a feel for the car..lol)

On the frost plugs..
I thought aluminum ones were common now, maybe that's just the smaller ones.
Good thought on removing them first.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Thanks,
Good info there.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Well a friend of mine offered me an 8.8 rear end with track lock from his ford exploder that he is scrapping.
I am wondering if I should replace the 8", cut those big coil brackets off and replace with some nice modern coil overs.
It would help with the rear box design.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Didn't find a the reversed steering box I was looking for in Lindsay, so it was either get the thing apart to reverse it or bust it trying.
Held the torch on it for a while and hit it twice .. snapped a screwdriver, it bounced out of the vice, hit the floor, and I thought it was done.
I picked it up and the cover had popped, the inside is mint, after cleaning old grease for an hour.
And the housing isn't that bad that a small file and some elbow grease with some sand paper can't clean up.
So I am not spending a bunch of money at Flaming River or other, and not on ebay tonight.
I will be however using that money to order a steering column from summit.
Amazing how corrosion between dissimilar metal is so strong.

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Guts

Case

Intrepid · PETERBOROUGH, ONT

Most of you guys are pro's and have already gone through all this but I thought I would post this stuff up for guys like myself that have never rebuilt a steering box.