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VIENNA, ONT

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Flex-A-Lite Elecric Fan Install ,..????
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  Has anyone had any experience with installing a ( Pusher )  Flex-A-Lite electric fan on their radiator, ?? They come with a set of 4 plastic bolts, and fast nuts. I have a problem with the idea of feeding a small philips screw driver through the core of a brand new aluminum radiator, ( as the installation Instructions recommends ). There was one person who submitted a post in the "Reviews" that I read on this type fan,..he was running the fan down, because once he had the nylon screws through the core of the rad, the rad started leaking, and he stated that it was due to the nylon screws chafing his radiator core that caused the problem. The Fan that I am installing is the Flex-Lite 119,.. 16" Lo-Boy, rated at 2500 cfm. Just wondering if anyone in the Forum here has had any negative issues themselves in regards to this installation,.?? Thank You.



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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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Never use those push through the radiator type install nylon fasteners. They cause more grief then their worth.
Pusher fans only are about 1/2 as efficient as puller fans. Use one of them if you can.


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VIENNA, ONT

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Lightspeed Mike wrote:

Never use those push through the radiator type install nylon fasteners. They cause more grief then their worth.
Pusher fans only are about 1/2 as efficient as puller fans. Use one of them if you can.


 No room for a puller Fan Lightspeed,...I have a 16" metal OEM ( Ford 289 )  fan on the engine now,..works great out on the highway,..no issues whatsoever,....as soon as I get into town / city speeds for 15 minutes the temp guage climbs real quick,..and drastically at idle. No room for a shroud either. I have room on the front of the Rad only. Thank You for your input on the nylon bolts / nuts,..exactly the info. I was looking for.

Wayne



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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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No shroud? That's your problem. I would try to figure something out there. Fans with out shrouds don't do much.


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DUNDAS, ONT

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In order for it to work without a shroud the fan needs to be dead centre of the rad and be within 1/2 inch from it hitting. you know its positioned right when you have a hard time getting the belt past. if you can't achieve this remove the metal blade( its useless anyway )cut the water pump  shaft back and install a electric puller.



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BRADFORD, ONT

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Have you considered trying a upgraded metal fan blade in your application ?

I went through a similar problem last summer when I installed AC in my car ... checking out all the different options ... wink

Instead of the plastic electric fan, probably made in China ... or worse ... I thought I would try an upgraded metal fan ... smile

It seems to of worked in my case ... it directly bolted on, no clearance issues at all ... and GREATLY increased the airflow ... smile

So far ... working GREAT ... and I know it will last forever ... as opposed to the electric add on ...

The difference is very noticeable !!!!

 http://www.amazon.com/Allstar-Performance-ALL30103-6-Blade-Steel/dp/B003BZZ1QO/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1457097661&sr=1-3&keywords=Allstar++Steel+Fan++6+Blade



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NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

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Heres a thought on your heating problem. It could be an air circulation, or restriction problem. If your ok on the highway your getting lots of air forced through the engine compartment but if your overheating in town and at low speeds theres less air flow. If your engine compartment is closed in with tight fitting inner fenders and hood theres no way for the engine heat to escape. I had a similar problem with my car and had to make some ways for the heat to escape faster at low speed. I also put a pusher fan in front of the rad just in case but so far haven't had to use it.

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51 Styline wrote:

Heres a thought on your heating problem. It could be an air circulation, or restriction problem. If your ok on the highway your getting lots of air forced through the engine compartment but if your overheating in town and at low speeds theres less air flow. If your engine compartment is closed in with tight fitting inner fenders and hood theres no way for the engine heat to escape. I had a similar problem with my car and had to make some ways for the heat to escape faster at low speed. I also put a pusher fan in front of the rad just in case but so far haven't had to use it.


 

 

Punch that hood full of louvers to allow the hot air to escape.

Or, as someone else mentioned, toss the mechanical and install a puller electric with a thermostatic trigger.



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KINCARDINE, ONT

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i did exactly what slim said above,took off the metal fan and cut the water pump shaft back a bit,i am running a 455 buick in a 64 skylark wagon,i made a shroud up for it from sheet metal,seems to work well,had to offset the fan a little bit due to low clearance in front of w/p..

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St THOMAS, ONT

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Ya, Wayne. Puller is the way to go. Try a 5 or 6 blade fan on the 289 before doing anything else, and see if that fixes the problem. If not, build a shroud.

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LONDON, ONT

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Cheyenne. What motor is the ford running?



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St THOMAS, ONT

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Wayne................a 289 or 302

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VIENNA, ONT

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Rochie wrote:

Cheyenne. What motor is the ford running?


 Hi Rochie,...You probably know the gentleman ( licensed mech. ) from london, who put this '54 together,..John Wood,..did his apprenticeship at Hillman in London in 1955.

  The car has a ( very fresh ) 1968 Mustang 289 and C-4 tranny,..both with less than 4000 Miles on them. John also installed a brand new " Superior Radiator ",.. ( Charlie Thurman rad, Mt.Clemens Mich. I believ that you recommended Charlie to me when I had the Model A rad built, " Good Stuff " can't beat his rads ) a year ago this past October,..and the only time he had actually checked the rad out for service is when he delivered the car to Vienna from london when my wife bought it from him. He stated at that time that it was working well,..and I have no reason not to believe him,..as the only time I seen the temp guage needle really climb into the red flag zone was during a cruise night in Tillsonburg,..when waiting in a long lineup at a Timmies,..and it started to tap the 200 deg. notch on the temp guage. It never boiled over,..or even started to steam for that matter,..but it was hot.  

 

LOL,..Rochie, I might add,..John painted the Engine Block / Valve Covers / and old style, Oil Bath Breather up to resemble the old " Y " block engine that the car came with,..and he also rounded up the Y Block decals for the valve covers and breather somewhere . He brought it over from Stateside with the Y block still in it,..the car is originally out of kentucky.



 



-- Edited by cheyenne on Sunday 6th of March 2016 01:39:59 AM

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VIENNA, ONT

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parklane wrote:

Ya, Wayne. Puller is the way to go. Try a 5 or 6 blade fan on the 289 before doing anything else, and see if that fixes the problem. If not, build a shroud.


Hi John,....No room whatsoever for a shroud,..but the 5 / 6 blade fan sounds like a winner idea. Thank You !!

 

You wouldn't have any ( 15 " ) OEM 1952 to '56 Ford center caps ( Hub Caps ) around that you want to sell would you,..?? Or know anyone who may have a set ,..??

 

Wayne



-- Edited by cheyenne on Sunday 6th of March 2016 01:26:29 AM

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LONDON, ONT

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There's always room for a shroud, even if it's a flat plate with a hole cut out the same size as the fan blades. What that does for the cooling system is force all the air flow through the centre hole instead of by passing the fan. You can see the amount of rad that's NOT covered by the fan. I didn't think I could put in a shroud on the 57 but I did and it made one hell of a difference. No more slow speed creep.

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Newer rad, fresh engine (which one would assume was boiled out during the rebuild so the cooling jacket is sludge/crud free) you really shouldn't be having any issues if everything is set up correctly.

I'd definitely go with a larger diameter/more blades mechanical fan and also fab up a shroud.

You should read up on fabricating a shroud as there are some basics that should be followed.

Good luck.

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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Superior Radiator in Mt Clemens MI built my last rad for me and they made an aluminum shroud about 1" thick with a 3200 CFM large diameter fan covering the bulk of the rad face. The fan has a thermostat set at 180 degrees and have never had a cooling issue. The shroud encased the entire face of the rad so air was being drawn over the entire rad.

Warren

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S/W ONTARIO

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Just my opinion but I would guess there is something wrong with the system. I have a '68 Ford with the same motor even the same year engine.

I have no should and only a 4 blade original fan on it. It never overheats.

I do have a pusher on the front but I never turn it on unless I'm in traffic and I have the air conditioner on.

Like Wayne says there is always room for a shroud.

Is the water pump OK Is it the right pump for it.What about the fan. Is it sucking??

I'm not a big Ford guy but is there a possibility it has a pump  on it designed to turn the other direction? Serpentine turn different direction then V belt. 

A buddy of mine hit a deer in the US with a Roadmaster wagon with a LT engine.

The shop there repaired the car. New rad,water pump and so on. Turns out the fan was for an older V belt so the water-pump was turning backwards. 

At low speed it wouldn't cool because it was turning backwards. At highway speed there was enough air movement to cool it.

Just a thought

TMJ



-- Edited by toomuchjunk on Sunday 6th of March 2016 04:52:56 PM

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Any chance one of the head gaskets wasn't put on correctly?

I know that some (or all) of the small Fords require the head gasket to be put on a certain way, and it is very easy to get it wrong. One goes on like you think it would but the other needs to be flipped over not spun.

It wouldn't be the first time someone got it wrong.



My understanding is that installing one gasket incorrectly will result in cooling issues .... 



-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 12:50:46 PM

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VIENNA, ONT

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chips wrote:

Any chance one of the head gaskets wasn't put on correctly?

I know that some (or all) of the small Fords require the head gasket to be put on a certain way, and it is very easy to get it wrong. One goes on like you think it would but the other needs to be flipped over not spun.

It wouldn't be the first time someone got it wrong.



-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 12:29:31 PM


 I'm thinking that if it was a head gasket, the engine would overheat at highway speeds also,..and not just lower speeds would it not..??

The engine was rebuilt at a very reputable engine shop here in my area, so I'm not too concerned about the heat problem coming from the engine itself.  



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chips wrote:

Any chance one of the head gaskets wasn't put on correctly?

I know that some (or all) of the small Fords require the head gasket to be put on a certain way, and it is very easy to get it wrong. One goes on like you think it would but the other needs to be flipped over not spun.

It wouldn't be the first time someone got it wrong.

 


cheyenne wrote:

 I'm thinking that if it was a head gasket, the engine would overheat at highway speeds also,..and not just lower speeds would it not..??

The engine was rebuilt at a very reputable engine shop here in my area, so I'm not too concerned about the heat problem coming from the engine itself.  


 

Just tossing it out there.  I really don't know when a flipped head gasket would show up in engine temps (meaning highway speeds/traffic/idle/all the time), but I do understand that an incorrectly installed head gasket (specifically on a small Ford) will cause cooling issues of some sort.  Maybe someone with some experience will chime in if this could possibly be the issue.

I've had reputable shops fail on me three different times now (a rad modification, welding on a tube chassis, and a head gasket install on a Kawasaki ... they added O-rings that were not needed that ended up preventing oil from reaching the valve train), so I now know never to assume that something was done correctly just because the shop has a good reputation.

 

I've had great luck with electric puller fans without any mechanical fan.  Think about it, in traffic the mechanical fan is spinning somewhat slowly due to the low rpm's of the engine whereas an electric fan (when on) is pulling as fast and as hard as it can, regardless of the fact that the engine is idling.  End result .... the potential for more air to be pulled through the rad (at idle) with an electric fan than (again, at idle) you'd get with a mechanical. 

 

Also, just because you're dealing with a reputable shop doesn't mean the owner, literally the guy who earned that reputation, is now the one doing the actual work (although in my rad case and my head gasket case, it actually was the owner of the shop doing the work).


All that being said, I ran a stock replacement rad (three core sourced from Canadian Tire), with a factory shroud and an aftermarket flex fan on a much hotter than stock 350 and never had any issue with cooling, EVER (although the car did have a cowl induction scoop that allowed a TON of hot air to escape the engine compartment).  I remember hearing someone who had issues with a 350 in one of the old Toyota 4WD p-ups, they had issues until they had the hood louvered.












-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 05:02:57 PM

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VIENNA, ONT

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chips wrote:
chips wrote:

Any chance one of the head gaskets wasn't put on correctly?

I know that some (or all) of the small Fords require the head gasket to be put on a certain way, and it is very easy to get it wrong. One goes on like you think it would but the other needs to be flipped over not spun.

It wouldn't be the first time someone got it wrong.

 


cheyenne wrote:

 I'm thinking that if it was a head gasket, the engine would overheat at highway speeds also,..and not just lower speeds would it not..??

The engine was rebuilt at a very reputable engine shop here in my area, so I'm not too concerned about the heat problem coming from the engine itself.  


 

Just tossing it out there.  I don't know when a flipped head gasket would show up in engine temps (meaning highway speeds/traffic/idle/all the time), but I do understand that an incorrectly installed head gasket (specifically on a small Ford) will cause cooling issues of some sort.  Maybe someone with some experience will chime in if this could possibly be the issue.

I've had reputable shops fail on me three different times now (a rad modification, welding on a tube chassis, and a head gasket install on a Kawasaki ... they added O-rings that were not needed that ended up preventing oil from reaching the valve train), so I now know never to assume that something was done correctly just because the shop has a good reputation.

 

 

 I most certainly understand your statement " I never assume anything " Chips,..been there,..dealing with aircraft engine shops. I appreciate your input and the heads up on the head gasket, believe me, and Thank You.

The evening that the heating incident took place my first concern too was possibly a head gasket,..I did check the oil on the dipstick at that time,.. and as soon as I got home I dropped the oil to be safe,..and it came out clear with no signs of water. The strange thing about it,..that was the only single time that it happened, we drove the car quite a bit after that and no sign of it over heating. I just want to add a backup up cooling unit just in case it does happen again. I'm just trying to make a good dependable vehicle out of the car, without having a cooling issue constantly in the back of my mind.

I had the Flex-A-Lite 16" electric fan already bought when I started this thread,..and got it mounted on the front of the rad last night. Flex-A-Lite claims that this fan will deliver a true 2500 cfm,..and I have a tendency to believe them. When I finally got the fan mounted,..l re-attached the battery cables,..left the hood up,..got inside the car and turned the key to the ON position,..and flipped the fan's toggle switch,..it came on immediately, and as i got out of the driver side door, and closed it,..I could actually feel the air from the fan hitting me standing beside the car door, that tells me that it is doing it's job,...but I am also going to order up a 5 or 6 blade steel fan tomorrow,( as some of the Forum members here suggested ) and install that also. Probably won't be able to tell too much until the weather really gets warm,..but for sure I will be keeping a close eye on the oil for water contamination. Thank You again. 

Wayne

 



-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 04:41:28 PM


 



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Just a little more info on the head gasket problem. If the SB Ford head gasket is installed wrong, it ends up blocking a passage to the one head (if I recall correctly). So, if you have a one-side-installed-incorrectly head gasket issue like I was suggesting, you won't find any trace of coolant in oil or oil in coolant.

If this issue only happened once, are you sure the temp gauge is working fine?

Any chance the present system is actually so efficient that it doesn't even reach the point of the thermostat opening unless your are in traffic? Meaning that when you are at highway speed the car isn't even able to reach the temp required to open the thermostat ..... yet once in traffic, due to reduced air flow, the temp climbs (and this is what got your nervous) until it reaches the thermostat opening temp, then drops with the opening of the thermostat. I know this sounds impossible as the car hypothetically HAS to heat up until the thermostat temp is reached but I drilled an 1/8" hole in a thermostat in order to eliminate the possibility of an air pocket and I ran into that exact scenario. The car simply would not reach operating temp when there was sufficient air flow through the rad.

If you've got a 195 thermostat and a slightly off temp gauge, it could hit 200 (on the gauge) before the thermostat opens.  That aside, 200 isn't an unreasonable temp (depending on the thermostat being used).

 



-- Edited by chips on Sunday 6th of March 2016 06:00:21 PM

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St THOMAS, ONT

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Wayne..............did you wire a relay into your fan circuit?? That way you are not pulling the high amperage through the whole circuit, but only from the relay to the fan motor.



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VIENNA, ONT

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parklane wrote:

Wayne..............did you wire a relay into your fan circuit?? That way you are not pulling the high amperage through the whole circuit, but only from the relay to the fan motor.


 Hi John,...yes,..the gent that we got the '54 from had a B&M transmission Oil cooler Rad,..and a SPAL Fan hid away in behind the grill. I had to take that out and install a new Derale Dual Pass Heat Sinc Tranny Cooler,.over on the passenger side behind the grill. John already had the wiring,..including the Relay and inline fuse there for the tranny cooler he had installed,..just had to wire into that,..the toggle switch and all was ready to go before I even tarted on the swap out,..works great !!

Wayne 



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