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OAKVILLE, ONT

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pointless ignition
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looking for anyone that has installed a hall effect trigger on a stock distributor.NOT an MSD type just looking to eliminate the points through a hall effect trigger without other changes.I am not looking for theoretical ideas just someone who has done it.thanks P.S. it is for my stock 239 engine it is 6 volt positive ground having said that it should not have any effect on it.



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DJD


SCARBOROUGH, ONT

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why "hall effect" rather than a standard style magnetic pick up?

I ask as hall effect can limit your ignition / engine controller options as not everything will read or accept the hall effect signal

my 2.2 dodge turbo motors have two hall effect pickups
thirty years with them I've found a few things that require an additional alternate pick up system be added leaving the hall effect connector dangling unused

in my case that would be crank trigger or a mallory distributor that's now long extinct

so you kinda have to have a definite reason to commit to it

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XZ


BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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I'm in the process of doing a "Pertronics" conversion on the 409, just got notified it's at the P O with along with 40,000 volt coil. It's got a weak spark, & # 5 cyl.only firing above idle. Did a comp. test and all are good, rockers and P/rods as well. Put a can of " Rislone" down it's throat and let it sit for 3 days, helped & think weak spark is causing carbon build up as well as our " $hitty" fuel.

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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I have used Pertronics in 3 cars [small block Chevs] and been very happy. The oldest was installed in 1988. Only use Shell high test as it has no alcohol but overkill on octane and price.

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Bob T
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BARRIE, ONTARIO

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I think with the pertronics , if you are doing tests on your car as in need to leave the key on for any amount of time in run position , engine not running , you need to unhook the distributor wiring plug

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OAKVILLE, ONT

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the problem with pertronics is that if you read their specs they say it requires 8-12 volts it will not be for me as my 6 volt has a maximum 7.2 volts.some say it will work on 6 volt I do not want to pay money then find it burns up due to voltage problem.just looking for someone that has used a system that opens and closes to control voltage to coil seem simple but may not be.an optical non electronic trigger is what I am thinking of using.again I would like to hear from anyone has done this

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BRANTFORD, ONT

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77 you are correct with Pertronics 1 but it is my understanding that Pertronics 11 & 111 don't have that problem

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Bob T


HAMILTON, ONT

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54vicky wrote:

just looking for someone that has used a system that opens and closes to control voltage to coil seem simple but may not be.an optical non electronic trigger is what I am thinking of using.again I would like to hear from anyone has done this


 Any alternative to mechanical points to control the ignition coil is going to involve solid state electronics.



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1966 Chrysler Windsor 2-door hardtop

1966 Chrysler Newport convertible



OAKVILLE, ONT

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if you are speaking from experience I would like you to expand on that comment.if only a theoretical thing then I will continue my quest.

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HAMILTON, ONT

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Optical encoders, magnetic reluctors or Hall effect are just the sensors that read the timing pulses. These have to be conditioned/amplified by electronics which then turn on/off a high-power transistor at the appropriate times. This transistor acts as a switch, replacing the mechanical points.

All of this is done inside what is often called an Electronic Control Unit (ECU). In the case of Pertronix, the electronics are integrated into the module which fits inside the distributor. In the GM HEI system the electronics are in the module which bolts to the distributor case.

I went to pertronix.com and looked-up 1954 Ford Y-block. Pertronix has Ignitor-1, 2 and 3 conversion systems available for your application, with 6-volt positive ground.

https://pertronix.com/electronic-ignition-conversions?year=1954&make=Ford&model=Y%20block%20engine#auto

As others have said, don't leave the key on with engine off for extended periods, especially with the Pertronix Ignitor-1, but the same advice is true for points ignitions as well. The Pertronix-1 is a points-eliminator system that otherwise functions very similar to a system with points. Ignitor-2 works more like a GM HEI system, and Ignitor-3 is like an MSD system.



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1966 Chrysler Windsor 2-door hardtop

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OAKVILLE, ONT

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if you go back and read the voltage requirement is as I said earlier is listed as 8- 12 volts so not what I need and I understand

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HAMILTON, ONT

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54vicky wrote:

if you go back and read the voltage requirement is as I said earlier is listed as 8- 12 volts so not what I need and I understand


 If they make a unit that specifically says it is for 6V systems, it can't possibly require a minimum of 8V. I'm sure you are mistaken; what you read before was specifically for a different Pertronix model.

Ignitor-1 for your application is model #1282P6:

https://pertronix.com/pertronix-1282p6-ignitor-ford-1954-56-8-cyl-6-volt-positive-ground.html#product_tabs_description_tabbed

 

Instructions for above. The instructions state that a minimum of 5.2V is required. See "Voltage Tests" on p.3

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/4471282P6.pdf

 



-- Edited by BigOldChryslers on Thursday 25th of July 2019 09:57:14 AM

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1966 Chrysler Windsor 2-door hardtop

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DJD


SCARBOROUGH, ONT

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you could debate this for several more posts
but a quick email straight to pertronix themselves will I'm sure get you the exact answers you need , and the part listing if they have what you need , and maybe even the part if they sell directly to you

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XZ


OAKVILLE, ONT

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one of the problems with their site is they list so many the one I read specs for was 1281P6 or 1283N6.they list too many with different specs but as I said in the beginning I do not want an electronic ignition.making a further search of their site a waste of time.it was an idea I wanted anyone who had tried to post results but got nothing but pertronics propaganda.so I am ending my quest at least it occupied my time for whilebiggrin



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DJD


SCARBOROUGH, ONT

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well you have only the three choices
points, electronic or magneto

any kind of pick up or sender other than points will require an electronic switching system either in the cap or on the fender

points are an on/off contact switch - eliminate that & replace it with a sender, which only generates a signal, hall effect or magnetic and you need the electronics to do the on/off switching the points used to do

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XZ


OAKVILLE, ONT

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BigOldChryslers wrote:
54vicky wrote:

if you go back and read the voltage requirement is as I said earlier is listed as 8- 12 volts so not what I need and I understand


 If they make a unit that specifically says it is for 6V systems, it can't possibly require a minimum of 8V. I'm sure you are mistaken; what you read before was specifically for a different Pertronix model.

Ignitor-1 for your application is model #1282P6:

https://pertronix.com/pertronix-1282p6-ignitor-ford-1954-56-8-cyl-6-volt-positive-ground.html#product_tabs_description_tabbed

 

Instructions for above. The instructions state that a minimum of 5.2V is required. See "Voltage Tests" on p.3

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/4471282P6.pdf

if you go to speedway motors and once it brings it up scroll down and you will find the specs showing the  voltage I quoted in their own description. it is under details so indeed they seem to make one.enough bs I quoted some thing and you did not look into it.this is another reason I would not try their product.if they can not even describe it.I realize 5.2 is probably indeed right but.I am ending my quest



-- Edited by BigOldChryslers on Thursday 25th of July 2019 09:57:14 AM


 



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BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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Finished my installation, instructions were excellent!!!! Pulled distributor, installed the reluctor & pick up, measured "air" gap with shaft at lowest position, then again with shaft raised to top, Too much gap, removed gear & used the provided shims, "PERFECT" gap !! Put dist. back in, by passed the ballast resistor, for 12V & installed "BLASTER" coil. Fired it, set timing, & test drive, slight miss at 55 "almost gone" & assume it's possibly a carbon build up from vehicle hardly used before I bought it [ 17 years of sitting & 1200 miles in that time] Another "dose" of Rislone down it's throat & some in tank and a long drive should do it??? Starts very easy now!!!!

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RIPLEY, ONT

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54vicky wrote:

looking for anyone that has installed a hall effect trigger on a stock distributor.NOT an MSD type just looking to eliminate the points through a hall effect trigger without other changes.I am not looking for theoretical ideas just someone who has done it.thanks P.S. it is for my stock 239 engine it is 6 volt positive ground having said that it should not have any effect on it.


 I would avoid using a 6V Pertronix module (They use a Hall effect trigger which is what you enquired about). From feedback I have received, the 6V unit will not switch below 4.2V from some reports and as high as 5.4V from other reports. Couple that with the 1V constant voltage drop, and you will have a very weak ignition, or absolutely no ignition if the starter drags the voltage down too far. The positive ground version of the Pertronix also switches the current upstream of the coil, rather than on the ground side like the negative ground pertronix or points. I would stick with points. If you want a 6V ignition that really works, I build one, but it isn't cheap. I sell most of the 6V CDIs to folks with Porsche 356s' but I have sold some to folks with old American iron. It's the only 6V CDI on the market which is why I am tooting my own horn, and it will give a strong spark down to 3.5V. It is also compatible with positive ground triggered by points, Fred  www.capacitordischargeignition.com

 



-- Edited by Fred Winterburn on Sunday 28th of July 2019 05:18:06 PM

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OAKVILLE, ONT

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Fred while I appreciate you taking the time to reply while your device looks interesting.but it still uses the points as trigger which was something I was looking to eliminate.while probably not possible I wanted to search it.your link you provided comes up with a warning which may deter people from opening it.I would have liked to see the cost for future consideration



-- Edited by 54vicky on Monday 29th of July 2019 11:11:46 AM

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HAMILTON, ONT

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54vicky wrote:
if you go to speedway motors and once it brings it up scroll down and you will find the specs showing the  voltage I quoted in their own description. it is under details so indeed they seem to make one.enough bs I quoted some thing and you did not look into it.this is another reason I would not try their product.if they can not even describe it.I realize 5.2 is probably indeed right but.I am ending my quest


 

@54vicky I tried to help you by educating you on your lack of understanding of what you are asking for. Then I navigated the Pertronix website to the model that you would need, if that's the route you wished to go, because you were incapable of figuring it out on your own. Then I found the actual voltage specs from Pertronix own instructions, which a reasonable person would trust over some vendor's website.

So instead of anything resembling thanks, you complained that all you got for an answer to your inquiry was "Pertronix propaganda", then accused me of "not looking into it" because I didn't happen to find some vendor's webpage with the incorrect information that you were looking at. You never even said it was Speedway Motors there you got the 8V spec from until just now. You also blamed the manufacturer because Speedway did not describe the product accurately on their website. (Inaccurate information posted on the internet?! I'm shocked! LOL)

I wasted a bunch of time on this for you. This is a good example of why knowledgeable people often don't chime-in when someone asks for technical advice. You are just as ignorant as before, but somehow it's someone else's fault. I'm done here.



-- Edited by BigOldChryslers on Monday 29th of July 2019 12:32:02 PM

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RIPLEY, ONT

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54vicky wrote:

Fred while I appreciate you taking the time to reply while your device looks interesting.but it still uses the points as trigger which was something I was looking to eliminate.while probably not possible I wanted to search it.your link you provided comes up with a warning which may deter people from opening it.I would have liked to see the cost for future consideration

54vicky, Unfortunately with a 6V system you will not find a better trigger than points. Points last nearly forever triggering a CDI so it really isn't an issue.  The price I charge for foreign buyers is $445 Canadian, but for Canadians I offer a small discount. Postage for Ontario, tracked and fully insured, is another $30.  If you do want to know more, my email is winterburnignition@gmail.com. I will be on a short holiday starting Thursday August 1, but will be back by the following Wednesday, so I may be slow to respond during that time. Fred

-- Edited by 54vicky on Monday 29th of July 2019 11:11:46 AM


 



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OAKVILLE, ONT

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I owe you a box of kleenex I did not ask you to do any searching.at least it kept you off the street so gfy and I do not mean good for you by that

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OAKVILLE, ONT

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Fred Winterburn wrote:
54vicky wrote:

Fred while I appreciate you taking the time to reply while your device looks interesting.but it still uses the points as trigger which was something I was looking to eliminate.while probably not possible I wanted to search it.your link you provided comes up with a warning which may deter people from opening it.I would have liked to see the cost for future consideration

54vicky, Unfortunately with a 6V system you will not find a better trigger than points. Points last nearly forever triggering a CDI so it really isn't an issue.  The price I charge for foreign buyers is $445 Canadian, but for Canadians I offer a small discount. Postage for Ontario, tracked and fully insured, is another $30.  If you do want to know more, my email is winterburnignition@gmail.com. I will be on a short holiday starting Thursday August 1, but will be back by the following Wednesday, so I may be slow to respond during that time. Fred

-- Edited by 54vicky on Monday 29th of July 2019 11:11:46 AM


 hope that your posting brings awareness about you and your product to people looking for a product like yours


 



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