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Post Info TOPIC: Whats In The Fuel?


MARKHAM, ONT

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Whats In The Fuel?
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Customer complaint was the car would only run if you kept spraying "quick start" in the carb.  Claims he does not use ethanol fuels.  This is what the o-ring on the needle/seat looks like on his Holley 416020211203_152538_2_resized.jpg.  It degraded so much it actually plugged the path for the fuel to get into the front bowl.  The brass filter was pristine, but it is upstream of this mess.  Gotta wonder what is actually in the fuel these days?



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BARRIE, ONTARIO

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Everything .... except gasoline

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St THOMAS, ONT

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The only gas that I use on my toys is premium. Reg or mid grade has ethanol - up to 10%, but even premium doesn't last to long in the tank.

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FOXBORO, ONT

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interesting and a relativity cheap fix, i would like to hear the back story to this point, maybe. it's hard to think there was that much melt down on just one or 1and a 1/2 tanks of gas or was it long term. there will be a bunch of people with the same problem, my guess and likely localized to that area. i don't even know where i can buy ethanol free gas in this area other than shell and theirs was maybe just the least, i forget but so far so good.

-good pic and thanks for the heads up.



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BELLEVILLE, ONT

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I would suspect ethanol and has been sitting for a while. Probably really old rubber seals. The new stuff is made to with stand that stuff.
Some premiums have ethanol in them. I know Petro Can 94 octane does. It tells me so when I'm loading it.
I would check the various company's websites for info. Or you can test it yourself. It's not hard , just google it. There's lots of videos on Youtube.


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PORT HOPE, ONT

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According to the message on the pumps,V plus has no Ethanol in this area. Ed


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FOXBORO, ONT

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Lightspeed Mike wrote:

I would suspect ethanol and has been sitting for a while. Probably really old rubber seals. The new stuff is made to with stand that stuff.
Some premiums have ethanol in them. I know Petro Can 94 octane does. It tells me so when I'm loading it.
I would check the various company's websites for info. Or you can test it yourself. It's not hard , just google it. There's lots of videos on Youtube.


 that is/was my thinking also Mike, an old o-ring and maybe some ethanol exposure. the odd part is the melt down look to it. i have changed lots of o-rings over the years with the farm and construction equipment i have but don't remember seeing one that appeared to have melted down be it chemical or heat exposure.  usually they have broke or gone soft and the very odd one that has gone brittle from a long time of no use. another puzzle to it is the filter having no taint to it at the very least which would suggest a one time exposure to whatever went through.  ??? how about a carb fire?  



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MARKHAM, ONT

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LOL, I live for the back story too!  So far, I only got the carb from a shop in TO.  Its off a real Pontiac Mera, that someone decided to take the EFI off of.  Date code on the carb is a 5 so either 75 or 85 but no blue gaskets so probably pre ethanol seals.  Funny thing, the rear seals are ok.  Possible that it sat for a very long time, fuel separated in tank, and the alcohol would drop to the bottom and get sucked up through the pick up when they tried to start.  If pure alcohol hit the front side and it would not start, may have caused the issue??  If anyone is interested, I try to capture the better stories on my website.  www.elliottoldschooltuning.com   Its my mobile hobby biz since I got downsized out of a job. 

  



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FOXBORO, ONT

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Livetodrive wrote:

LOL, I live for the back story too!  So far, I only got the carb from a shop in TO.  Its off a real Pontiac Mera, that someone decided to take the EFI off of.  Date code on the carb is a 5 so either 75 or 85 but no blue gaskets so probably pre ethanol seals.  Funny thing, the rear seals are ok.  Possible that it sat for a very long time, fuel separated in tank, and the alcohol would drop to the bottom and get sucked up through the pick up when they tried to start.  If pure alcohol hit the front side and it would not start, may have caused the issue??  If anyone is interested, I try to capture the better stories on my website.  www.elliottoldschooltuning.com   Its my mobile hobby biz since I got downsized out of a job. 

  


 The part that made me think about it at all is that the filter is so clean.  My best guess after reading it a half dozen times and finally getting a magnifying glass for a better look, lol, it appears to look melted to the point that it ran.  Maybe a little bit too much quick start the way it looks to be chard, maybe.  I might be off base but i have a hard time thinking a chemical reaction would cause it to boil and run like that and leaving it looking chard, to boot.    Good brain tezzer though.  LOL 

  I checked out your site and good luck on your new endeavor bud.



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MARKHAM, ONT

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Thanks Shag, the business model is sound but you end up blowing your head off with travel km.  Still, its always good to be the "hero" that finally fixes it! 



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MARKHAM, ONT

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As an update, when I opened it up, it has the Duracon floats so I'm guessing its a 1975 model Holley.  Judging by how the metering blocks were "welded" in there, its probably all original stuff that dry rotted.  I'm hoping to get the job of setting this one up, I've never actually seen a Mera????



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FOXBORO, ONT

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Livetodrive wrote:

Thanks Shag, the business model is sound but you end up blowing your head off with travel km.  Still, its always good to be the "hero" that finally fixes it! 


 You know there isn't a tradesman out there today who doesn't have a charge on the bill for the travel or a vehicle and some are plus fuel sur-charge.  depending on how much per hour you are charging for your service's you could probably get away with a travel charge outside a 20 mile zone. just thinking out loud is all, i think the model is doable.



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MARKHAM, ONT

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I should explain, people are great about paying for travel, but the logistics are brutal.  Latest one is about the norm, its a 58 Austin Princess with drivability issues.  2 hour drive to get there, one hour on site doing the diagnosis and doing a training session with the owner.  The problem was wear in the distributer body causing wicked dwell variation and spark scatter.  3 weeks waiting for parts from England then travel 2 hours back to install.  All in 8 hours travel plus 2 hours diag/training.   I do the research on my own time because it floats my boat.  Transporting carburetors in an inclosed vehicle has some fume issues as well.  LOL  The alternative is having a shop where you end up storing someones pride and joy while waiting for parts which has some liability attached and the obvious cost of lease, heat, lights etc.  On the up side, being able to demonstrate to customers the before and after with the gas analyzer has been a big success and I really enjoy the training piece.  Still trying to make it work, but like I say the travel has proven to be a bit of a PIA!    



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WEST PERTH, ONT

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What is this gas analyzer you speak of ? I'm way outta date with cool new tools (except the damn code readers I have 4 or 5 of).

That seal looks to be 'ate' to me. Similar to something ya put into the kleen-flo parts cleaner tank and forget to remove it before. That stuff eats everything, and thats why it's so great IMO.

Ethenol, as far as I understand, is not a corrosive additive. Certainly not something that eats rubber. (Degrade a better word ?)

What I've seen in carbs/injectors/filters and whatnot, using ethenol, leaves a green slime.
When it dries, you have a greeny/blue powder that will clog stuff up when you refire and pump fresh fuel through the system. Just my thought, and I'm in no way an expert on these additives in any way.

I do more small engines these days, and the fuel lines are rated for max 10% ethenol. The old plastic lines would harden up so bad, you'd have to break them off and use a knife to get off the flange. The bowls would be full of slime and more often than not, I replace them. The dried out ones you can't even clean, short of a wire wheel. Heavy Varnish build up rings a bell. Just chuck it.

All the snake oil these days and additives, I'd almost suspect the customer (or previous) dumped a boat load of carb cleaner,injector cleaner, stabilizer, maybe some vineger, rodent urine, bottle of pepsi etc in that unit.

BTW. Anybody have an old 650/750/850 double pumper laying around. If so, PM me cause I'm getting close to firing this beast up. Need a spare for a couple things I changed decades ago.



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MARKHAM, ONT

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Its basically a mobile emission machine from Snap On.  About the size of your phone.  One sniff of the exhaust tells us how the car is running, high HC is unburned fuel, High CO is running too rich.  A good running 70's carbureted car should be about 3% CO and 300 ppm HC.  Most I set up are 6-9% CO and 700 to 800HC beforehand Getting the timing and the mixtures correct makes the car more fun to drive and they usually run cooler and get better mileage.  When the customer can actually see the numbers before and after, and I show them how to set it up, they get something tangible.  I actually did one that was set so rich, it set off the CO detector in the guys house while it was idling in the driveway.  I take on the jobs that no one else wants to sort out.  Its actually kinda fun.  Check out the website if you get a minute.  www.elliottoldschooltuning.com

 

20211205_150258_resized.jpg

 



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