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Post Info TOPIC: relays


PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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I would like to know if there is a difference, aside from appearance, in the starter relay I found under my dash and the starter relays I see when researching what I need to buy to do my electrical system correctly.

All the starter relays I see on the net for properly wiring a hot rod are small, square black plastic boxes.

 

The starter relay I currently have under my dash is much larger and round and black with four metal bolts sticking out. Are the small ones just a newer version of the same thing ? And yes, it's a mess under there which is why I'm trying to learn to tidy things up. Thank you in advance. If it ever warms up enough, I can't wait to get in there and tidy things up.

 

E6EF8FF2-2A79-4A46-97E1-B8CF8CEFA33F.jpeg

 



-- Edited by Cuddles on Wednesday 23rd of March 2022 06:04:00 PM

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DOURO, ONT

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That starter relay is of the Ford type. It is normally mounted under hood and only runs the starter.

Not sure why it is under your dash, other than to try to clean up wiring under the hood.

Same for the voltage regulator sitting under it.

No - this relay is not the same as those little 30 amp relays one buys at any hardware or auto parts store

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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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So I should mount my starter relay and voltage regulator in the engine bay ? My engine bay is entirely exposed to the elements. Thank you Seeker1056.

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MARKHAM, ONT

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The little relays flow 30 or 40 amps.  The Ford relay is rated for 600 amps. The big guage oof the starter wires is the tell tale of a "high amperage" relay.



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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Thank you Livetodrive. I suspected that it wasn't the same but thanks to you, now I know. I'm learning.

Should the voltage regulator and Ford relay be located outside for cooling or does it matter if it is under the dash ? I have the impression it is odd to mount t it under dash.

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MARKHAM, ONT

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I like to see it as close to the battery as possible to minimize the length of the starter cables.  That is the concept behind a relay to start with.  You don't want to run the starter cables from a dash switch to the starter so the small guage wires do the "switching" of the big current starter cables.  Cooling is not a huge issue as long as it is not right above a header.  Water intrusion can be a problem so it should be mounted so water does not get on/in it.  I actually saw one that got soaked during an engine shampoo and shorted out hours later engageing the starter on a 4spd car and driving through the garage door in reverse sans the driver.  Another good reason to use the parking brake even when the car is left in gear.



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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Thank you livetodrive. I think I can mount the starter relay near the battery (behind the passenger seat under the floor).

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MARKHAM, ONT

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You will likely end up with a fairly long starter cable running from the solenoide/relay to the starter itself.  Be sure its in good shape and secured safely in place.  That cable is not fused so if it shorts out there will be arc welding.  The Austin Princess limosines used a similiar set up with 2 sixvolt batteries under the rear seat, a 10 ft starter cable running up to the engine compartment, then the Ford type soledoide and on to the starter.  The OEM cables had about a 1/4 inch of insulation on them.



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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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I am hoping to end up with something like this video since his battery is in the back too:




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MARKHAM, ONT

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All your stuff is fine where it is. Why would you want to move the ugly to where it will be seen?
Just get that bare connection covered is all I see wrong.

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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Ditto!
Warren

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TRENTON, ONT & SOUTH CAROLINA

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X2 on where it is,just clean it up a bit and make sure there are no open connections like they said,just for safety

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FOXBORO, ONT

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Redneck Rydes wrote:

X2 on where it is,just clean it up a bit and make sure there are no open connections like they said,just for safety


 X3 on the location but tidy it up with no bare connections. it is a p.i.t.a. job but if done right it is very likely a 1 time job.  



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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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P.I.T.A. ? I don't know what that means but I'm sure someone will tell me.
What I know is that under my dash is a mess and probably more unsafe than one photo can relate.
What I don't know is everything to make it right. So I come here where knowledge and experience is abundant.
Plus I now have an excellent book to guide me as well.
But the task ahead is still frightening. Because my electrical skills are questionable at best. I fried my garage door opener last week. That cost me a few hundred dollars just by touching 2 terminals with the end of my pliers - trying to fix a loose light bulb connection. Yup, I learned the hard way to unplug first. But if I unplugged, I couldn't tell where the loose connection was.
Anyway, my point is that electrical was never my strong point so tackling it in my ride doesn't inspire confidence.
Maybe the big difference is that when most here were learning, other guys could drop in and do stuff together. Not so with Covid.
Now that my cables and fuel lines are off and the shroud removed, I know I have no choice but to learn. If I don't get it right, I miss out on a third summer.
The consensus here is that I just need to tidy it up and cover bare connections. I bought a ratcheting crimper, a crack lighter and heat shrink.

Step one - the battery is out.
Step two - Fingers crossed.

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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I think the consensus here is to get rid of all the wire possible and start over, leaving things where they are, using the right gauge wire, protecting all open connections and bundling or wrapping the wire runs to keep them from getting pulled, twisted or caught. This is not rocket science, but it does take time and patience. Follow the schematics, lay it out carefully, get good crimps on your connectors and take your time. Hot rodding is about the build, it always takes longer then you plan. Dog Spit took an extra three years, the Bantam and the Stude at least a year longer then expected and they were pretty straight forward. The drive is the reward which only comes after the grief whenever that is. Yes, it may be another year. Take the truck for a drive.

Warren

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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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Always good advice - take my time. Thank you. Writing notes to follow so I don't forget and time to draw where wires go. 12 and 18 gauge wire I think. If I get through this, it will be something to take pride in. Thank goodness I have the truck (and a fire extinguisher).

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Wire size goes by fuse size.

10 ga = 30 amps
12 ga = 20 amps
14 ga = 15 amps
16 ga = 10 amps, I think
18 ga = 5 amps, again, I think (google)

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MARKHAM, ONT

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P.I.T.A is a highly technical acronym for pain in the ass.  Adding my two cents, i always prefer soldering connections rather than just crimping.  I find less potencial for corrosion but thats just my OCD talking.



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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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PERFECT timing Jari ! I spent the morning researching what size wires go where. Your input will make this much easier. Thank you so much.

And thank you Livetodrive. I am still learning and saw this video so it leaves me wondering, to solder or not to solder ?

And I have some wire in different colours from Princess but I guess I should use good quality wire so I will buy 'SXL' type wire. Maybe Peterborough Automotive sells it.

 

I'm going to spend the morning making a hinge pin puller for the truck mirror. I made a lot of progress planning out my wiring so far.  As soon as it warms up, I'll crawl in there and try to clean up the mess.

Thank you again. I will Google for 16 and 18 gauge. I just might get through this.



-- Edited by Cuddles on Sunday 27th of March 2022 10:51:00 AM

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LONDON, ONT

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And don't forget... Soldering connections and terminals and using shrink tube to insulate is your best friend

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MARKHAM, ONT

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I didn't even look at the video above to see what schmuck posted it. Never solder? WTF?

X2 on solder and heat shrink.

Interior wiring, I'll use butt connectors along with soldering some as no moisture in there.

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LONDON, ONT

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Sorry Boys...Solder anywhere, inside or out. Shrink tube everywhere. I even get some shrink from a friend with temp sen site glue inside.

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PETERBOROUGH, ONT

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So I should always solder every connection. Thank you !

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MARKHAM, ONT

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On another note, I always seem to finish the perfect soldered connection or make the perfect flare on a brake line, only to realize the heat shrink or thr fitting is still laying on the bench.  Anybody else suffer from this?



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WEST PERTH, ONT

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Yup, I think it's just normal procedure these days. Don't forget the exhaust pipe collector flange to connect the header !! After you welded the damn thing on !!

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MARKHAM, ONT

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Or the axle retainer, after you finally get the bearing pressed on!



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