"the next one" - Scratchbuilt Mid-Engine Sports Car

hemi43 · ONTARIO

RE: "the next one" - Scratchbuilt Mid-Engine Sports Car

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

Ya what he said ^^^^, LOL, you hit 100 post on this thread, and it's very interesting.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

And here I thought I was making good progress on this thang guys! disbelief biggrin biggrin The issue is finding time to get online to post the stuff...

Negative molds were created from the foam plugs...then actual interior parts created from them. Yeah, I know it's a lot of work, but I didn't wanna leave all that foam inside. Will be like a factory production vechile.

My Dad and I would like to thank everyone who has shown an interest in our project. We hope that in some way it'll inspire others, especially people my age or younger to get out into their garage and get their hands dirty learning, wreching and building their own hot rods.

More pics will be up soon. smile

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Hi guys!

Here are some more photos of the interior progressing along...

Getting very close to the fiberglass process ... but not before cleaning up some additional voids that were found.

Initial plan was to create plaster molds of the interior which meant less work if we were to simply cover the panels with leather. However, taking the surface finish one step further using polyester fillers will allow for a really trick optional finish.

Pushing into another very early morning to get the primer mixed shot onto the finished plugs.

Nice even coats of epoxy primer ensures that the surface is sealed well. As a side note, always ensure that you wear the proper respirator when using primers with hardeners - they contain isocyanates ... a pretty nasty respiratory irritant.

And here are some photos of my first attempt at making molds. Started off with a small interior piece...the armrest... to practice the technique.

So here it goes...after several applications of high temperature mold release wax were applied, resin and fiberglass matting were laid down building a composite skin.

Thoroughly wetting out the matting is the key to a quality part...at least that's what they say.

After the resin cured it was time to remove the plug.

With a little prying along the edge with putty knives the mold successfully popped off the plug ...at least when it came to the mold. The plug will be thrown out since it's not required anymore. Now just need to clean up the edges of the mold a little.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

That's the fun stuff ! In the past when making molds, I've sprayed tooling gelcoat first over the part, then layered the mat on top of it. You may find the plug releases a bit better.I'm definitely not telling you how to do it, but just passing on my previous experience. Great job, and hoping to see a completed interior by the weekend !! LOL

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
That's the fun stuff ! In the past when making molds, I've sprayed tooling gelcoat first over the part, then layered the mat on top of it. You may find the plug releases a bit better.I'm definitely not telling you how to do it, but just passing on my previous experience. Great job, and hoping to see a completed interior by the weekend !! LOL

Fun?.. I really prefer fabricating using metal as the medium. Much easier! smile smile

No worries Dan biggrin That's one of the reasons why we're here... to share ideas, techniques...and funnies. I'm not one to disregard any advice/tips thrown my way by anyone. Anyway, gettnig back to the tooling gelcost...I've seen tooling gelcoat used in the past and thought to myself..."would it be possible to apply the resin itself as the first coat, let it cure a bit, then apply the layers of mat and resin?" Worst case would be that I need to make the part over. The armrest was a small enough part and would allow me to 'play' without the worry of wasting too much material. Two things I learned after making this part were that: I needed to buff and wax the parts in more detail for easier release; and the resin was still too 'runny' for lack of a more technical term when applying it as a first coat. You'll see the results improve when I get more photos of the interior posted.

Completed interior by the weekend?? Heck, the car's already done........

........at least in my head! wink

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

smile Nice stuff Nick! Keep us guy's updated! smile

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I think gelcoat has less adhesion properties, and that's why it pops out of molds so nicely. Even the final parts may benefit with a coat of gelcoat first. I use a spray gun to apply it, but the fluid tip is 2.5 mm.
If the car is done, can I come out this weekend for a ride?? You did put snows on it, right?? Ha

2inchestoolow · CLARINGTON, ONTARIO

Awesome work Nick!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Thanks guys!

I have a 2.0mm tip for one of my primer guns. Next time around when I'm playing with molds, will try putting some gelcoat thought that...otherwise will pick up a larger tip. Thanks for taking the time to shed some more light on the fiberglass process for me. As for the "real" car being done, I just got in for breakfast from a grinding/sanding, wash and prime marathon. Started yesterday evening and now the body structure and inside areas of most panels have primer on them...

Have a great weekend!

Canadian Poncho · PEI

I just discovered this thread. Amazing is an understatement! You should be working for one of the big 3! Do you have any drawings of what the final product will look like? I'd love to see them!

Todd

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Canadian Poncho wrote:
I just discovered this thread. Amazing is an understatement! You should be working for one of the big 3! Do you have any drawings of what the final product will look like? I'd love to see them!
Todd

Hi Todd, My Dad and I are having a lot of fun with this build. The final drawings are in my head as it's hard to make myself happy with a "final rendering". Rough sketches are done of specific areas to illustrate for my Dad how I'd like something to look or work...but thats about it.

Thanks very much for the kind words!

Nick

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Hi Guys! Here's the next little installment. All the surfaces were buffed followed by 3-4 coats of High Temperature Mold Release.

Driver's door was done next after the arm rest to practice my technique for cutting, laying and wetting out the matting on a slightly larger scale. Once I got the hang of the process I moved onto the rest of the interior.

Started prepping the remaining interior was by cutting and laying out the chopped mat for the molds.

Built a dispenser for the roll of chopped mat.

Three layers of matting laid and wetted out. It was pretty cool to see the colour of the Shapie bleed though all the layers of resin.

Excess material trimmed from the perimeter. The process of removing the molds from the plugs has started. We only have one shot at this... And even though the plugs would be scrapped after - I was determined to pop the mold off without destroying the plug. Unfortunately, i slid the putty knife a bit further than necessary and ended up breaking the passenger door plug. Lets see if I have better luck with the other door.

Success!!! After some careful prying, the mold came off with a pop and didn't damage the plug.

Dash plug and mold removed from the vehicle to make it easier separating the mold from the plug.

After a few minutes of 'playing', the mold successfully popped off !

Rear wall and tunnel resin done curing and ready to be pulled after the perimeter edges have been trimmed

Trimming off the excess matting/resin from around the perimeter.

Plugs pulled and interior all cleaned up... Looks strange being bare again.

Thanks for following along. smile smile

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Excellent !! Yeah those markers are nasty !! Hopefully your finished part won't pull any ink out of the mold.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
Excellent !! Yeah those markers are nasty !! Hopefully your finished part won't pull any ink out of the mold.

Hey Test!

I knew you'd be the first to see this work! Thanks!! biggrin biggrin

Not to worried about the ink as the parts will be upholstered and covered with aluminum trim later. But yeah, I didn't think that far ahead. As they say, "ignorance is bliss" smile smile smile

Have a great weekend Dan!

123pugsy · MARKHAM, ONT

Coming along nicely Nick.

Nice tutorial on the fiberglass.
I've never worked it before and now it's not so intimidating.

hemi43 · ONTARIO

You have a good weekend too !! I hope after all this work, you will be doing all the sewing on the upholstery as well !!Should be a wicked car when it's done !!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

123pugsy wrote:
Coming along nicely Nick.

Nice tutorial on the fiberglass.
I've never worked it before and now it's not so intimidating.

Thanks Pugsy.

I'm no expert when it comes to fiberglass by anymeans. Saying that, I don't mind 'playing' with it to fabricate when I need to...just can't stand the dang stench. smile smile

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
You have a good weekend too !! I hope after all this work, you will be doing all the sewing on the upholstery as well !!Should be a wicked car when it's done !!

Thanks Dan. smile

Hah! me sewing?....that's like oil and water. When I did the interior for Rhythm i had no problem wrapping and gluing upholstery on the panels. But, when it came to the french stiching I had the seats sent out. The idea of messing up and wasting leather was just a tad intimidating. disbelief

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

Nice lesson in 'glass Nick. Thats gonna look so cool when done!

hemi43 · ONTARIO

invision wrote:
hemi43 wrote:
You have a good weekend too !! I hope after all this work, you will be doing all the sewing on the upholstery as well !!Should be a wicked car when it's done !!
Thanks Dan.
Hah! me sewing?....that's like oil and water. When I did the interior for Rhythm i had no problem wrapping and gluing upholstery on the panels. But, when it came to the french stiching I had the seats sent out. The idea of messing up and wasting leather was just a tad intimidating.

Yeah, if you're using leather you don't want to make mistakes. I used a good quality vinyl for my car for that same reason. It has it's flaws, but the money I saved doing it my self paid for my engine. smile

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Hi guys! Well, after a little hiatus into the world of composite panel fabrication, it's time to get back into some metal work. Isn't that what we're all here for anyway, right?

The last time we left off, I was in the process of shaping the exterior pieces/panels. The time has now come to start joining those pieces together creating body sub assemblies.

Work begins to weld up the front fascia. While it's a tedious process, this is where things start to shape up...no pun intended.

Grinding down the weld proud.

Time to flip things over. Prepping and tacking the pieces together for the bottom front fascia. Final welds will be about 2" at a time with no less than 30 welds.

I don't rush the process. Once the panel is welded it's allowed to cool down until I can touch any area by hand. Then the grinding begins.

First pass of grinding down the weld's pride.

Second pass...

My brother-in-law dropped by the shop while I was working on the front sub assembly and wanted to help out. Prior to this he never shaped metal nor welded before. It was a perfect opportunity for him to jump in with both feet and fabricate the fascia's bottom corners. After showing him how to use the Shrinker/Stretcher and English Wheel I set him up with some cardboard to create a template. He then transposed this to a piece of sheet metal and started shaping it to the appropriate curve.

Passenger side panel done and used as a comparison for the D/S piece as it take shape.

Then the real fun began. He was to weld these pieces into the corner areas. He scribed the pieces, trimmed them and carefully tacked them into place.

Steve grinds down the tacks in preparation to planish them.

While planishing, Steve learned how to control the sheet metal around the tack to create a seamless butt joint. His next task was to weld up the joint...not too bad for his first time. Good penetration...just that pride was a bit high...meaning more time and material(grinding disks) to clean it up.

Unfortunately, we didn't get any photos of the bottom fascia ground and finished up. Will try to remember to get a shot next time I'm working on the car.

Thanks very much for following along. Have a great day!

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Thanks for the update !! Looks great !!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Thanks Dan!

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

smile Thats fantastic Nick! Can I come and learn from you? biggrin

Model A Guy · STROUD, ONT

Incredible work Nick!! The design, the imagination, the patience, the drive, the skill, the execution..... thanks for sharing the build with us mere mortals!!

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Very nice, always very interesting, and educational.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

JPB wrote:
Thats fantastic Nick! Can I come and learn from you?

Thanks John! If you're ever down in the Niagara area feel free to shoot me an email. We'll see if we can arrange something if you want.

Model A Guy wrote:
Incredible work Nick!! The design, the imagination, the patience, the drive, the skill, the execution..... thanks for sharing the build with us mere mortals!!

"....us mere mortals"???? what the heck you talking about?? disbelief It's taken many many hours of learning ... and i'm still discovering so much every time I pick up a piece of sheet metal. I posted this build as a continuation of my frist build to hopefully inspire others to get out into their garage and start working on an automotive project that they've been wanting to tackle.

Thanks very much for following the build. Your compliment means a lot.

sasquatch wrote:
Very nice, always very interesting, and educational.

Thanks buddy!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Another piece to the very large puzzle...

Here are the beginnings of a new...hood. Yeap...you read that correctly. I didn't like the features on the first one so we're redoing it. After the fresh sheet metal pieces were cut out based on original templates, a little more 'bump' was rolled into them with the wheel.

Once the overall curvature was established in the main area a reverse curve was created using one of the sharper lower anvil and carefully rolling the trough's edges until the panel started to relax upwards

With the pieces formed… fitting begins.

Slowly starting to look like a hood. Condensation is a strange thing…soon as we opened the shop doors that particular afternoon a small patch of surface rust appeared on the centre panel. No worries as the DA will take care of that.

A little tuck shrinking to deal with the flange’s excess length. The metal will actually get hammered into itself.

Almost there…a little more work and we’ll have a nice smooth curve.

Side flanges bent and pieces finally fit to each other. Next step… tacking!

Panels lined up and ready for welding.

During the tacking process panels are constantly tweaked in order to ensure a nice smooth curvature.

With each tack the hood is getting to sound…right. After the tacks have been completed and hood cools off grinding can begin.

First pass at grinding the welds.

After some more grinding out comes the flat file to reveal the highs and lows. However minor these areas may be they need to be addressed.

Working with the hammers, spoons and dollies... highs and lows are normalized until you get a smooth consistent surface.

Thanks for looking and have a great day everyone! smile

slim · DUNDAS, ONT

Just spent the last hour or so going through the tread looking for the original hood .I think some ware along the line I forgot what I was looking for until I came across it . If you add a couple more odd angles to it you should be flying under the radar or was that in the original plan LOL you could have some fun with that.

-- Edited by slim on Tuesday 19th of March 2013 09:48:32 PM

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Thanks again for the great follow along of this project, great work!!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Thanks Sasquatch!

Hi Slim, yeah that hood makes for a wild shape. I had it hanging in the shop for a while as wall art until I needed some sheet metal for another project. From the photos, the first and second hoods don't look all that different. However, once on the car, the profile view of the first one didn't look 'right'.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

That is fantastic Nick Its like a private lesson in body panel fabrication and car construction!

-- Edited by JPB on Wednesday 20th of March 2013 08:40:46 PM

Keeper · OSHAWA, ONT

Looking good, glad to see you posting this build somewhere, I looked forward to your posts on the other site.

Have you all seen the first build thread? If not track it down and take a look, its worth the time.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Keeper wrote:
Looking good, glad to see you posting this build somewhere, I looked forward to your posts on the other site.

Have you all seen the first build thread? If not track it down and take a look, its worth the time.

Thanks Keeper! smile

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Hi everyone!

Here's another installment on R2's build journey. With the hood skin more or less finished, it was time to re-create the front moisture trough. I wasn't happy with the way the sides looked the first time I made them.. too narrow.

On the second version, you'll see that it has more continuity. With only a few tacks and self-drilling/

self-tapping screws holding the front compartment surround together it's taken out and work begins to make things a little more permanent.

Working the area towards an invisible butt joint.

Where strength is required joints are overlapped and plug-welded.

Can never seem to have enough clamps. Need to ensure panels are mated with no gaps for a uniform weld distribution.

All done and ready to be installed later...

Thanks for checking out the progress.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

That is Sweet work.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Thanks JPB! smile smile

Here's some work done on the front inner fenders...

While they were mounted inside the buck witness marks were created and self drilling-self tapping screws used to temporary fasten the two pieces together.

Exterior piece gets a reveal created for additional strength as well as a seat for the the inner piece to sit in.

Some additional trimming and hammer/dollie work along the edges was required for a nice tight fit.

Assembled, welded and cleaned up with a flap disk...the piece is ready to be reinstalled.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Finishing up the front fenders.

The two pieces were fit and tacked together earlier on the buck. Now it's time to complete the joint.

Grinding off the proud... taking it slow so as not to build up too much heat.

Very close to an invisible joint. After going over the area with a file followed by a DA loaded with 80grit only few small flaws remain. These will still require a few more minutes to planish and clean up.

Thanks for looking! smile

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Thanks for the great update again, interesting pics of this project.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Here are the inner rockers... some of the very few panels that have straight lines. The exterior skin is only as good as the structure used to support it and as with a production vehicle, these will basically connect the front and rear of the vehicle together. I've been tipping/bending curved edges for soo many parts that this was also done by hand... without using a pan brake.

After the box section were bent holes were created for plug welds.

As the pieces are being welded together the flanges are tapped down ensuring a tight fit.

...a cool peak of an an arc flash.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

All I can say is, WOW !!!! That is fantastic !

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

JPB wrote:
All I can say is, WOW !!!! That is fantastic !

Thanks John. smile

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

Nick,what chassis will this art work of yours rest upon? Curious to know.

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

JPB wrote:
Nick,what chassis will this art work of yours rest upon? Curious to know.

I'll be building a DOM tubular chassis from scratch using C5 suspension components front and rear and polyurethane mounts to isolate any road noise. It's was designed same time the body was... just a matter of time before I get working on it.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

NICE!!

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

Hi everyone,

After a brief mock up of all the panels mounted on the buck I noticed that the top curvature of the doors was too straight. I thought I allowed enough, but my guesstimate at the onset of creating this panel wasn't enough and now that the features have been locked in determined it would be a little tough to move the area around. So, rather than fab a new panel, out came the zip blade. The thought of cutting into a 'finished' panel wasn't an issue. If something isn't right at this raw metal stage...it definitely won't look right by splashing a little paint on it.

The cut line was marked.

Eyeballing about 5/16" of excess material to be removed at the centre and tapering to nothing at the ends...another cut was made, surfaces re-aligned and tacked.

followed by some more tacks...

and some more...

Connecting the tacks with welds about 5/8" long, grinding the weld, planishing the area to control warpage and repeating.

a view from the inside.

Have a great day! smile

Rochie · LONDON, ONT

Hey Nick,
would you consider an invasion from south western Ont to your shop??? I think you're doing an amazing job building this and would really like to see it in person. Iknow some of the ELTA boys would be up for a road trip.

Cat in the Hat · BRANTFORD, ONT

Count me in too ....Nick

Just imagine 612 hot rods parked in from of your house.....the neighbours would love you ;)

invision · NIAGARA FALLS, ONT

600+ hot rodders showing up would definitely be an iNVision invasion. Hah!

You guys are very welcome to drop by if you're down in or near the Niagara area... just give me a heads up ahead of time to make sure I'm around. As many of you guys know yourselves, summer can get pretty hectic.

It would be a pleasure to meet and put faces to screen names.