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Post Info TOPIC: had a bad encounter with a hvac guy
Glen440


AJAX, ONT

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had a bad encounter with a hvac guy
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I had an interesting run in with a heating and air guy at the start of the week.

I have a service plan for my furnace and ac, I called because the ac was acting up and they told me I was due for  routine maintenance on both. I was thinking the 30 year old ac unit was gonna need replaced. The guy took it apart and cleaned it and topped up the r22.

My dinner was getting cold by the time he started on the furnace so I left him alone because there was no issue with it. He calls me down after a bit and says I need a new furnace. Says cracked or plugged heat exchanger. Tells me its outputting 140f when it should be 100f and it has tripped 2 codes. He red tagged it and then tried to sell me a new furnace and ac unit.

 

After he leaves I sit down and read the copy of the work order I have. Nowhere on it says whats wrong with the furnace other than in the suggestions area where it says plugged or cracked heat exchanger and a warning tag was issued.

I open the furnace up to have a peek inside, I can only see from up where the A coil is and where the burners are, It looks good to me.

I found someone I work with that has a friend that does hvac. He came over yesterday to look at it. After he read the furnace is a 2002 he said he doubted the heat exchanger was bad. He took the burners out of the furnace, removed the exhaust and cut a hole in ductwork right above the furnace. Says there is nothing wrong with the heat exchanger. He puts it all back together and fires it up.

The furnace does shut off and flash a code 33 which basically means one of the safety switches has gone off. He takes the high limit temp switch out and the furnace works fine. He took temp reading at the heat exchanger and it does get close to 165f where the switch says its rated for. The intake air temp at this point is in the low 80's which is making it run hotter than it would in winter. He told me the furnace is too big for the house and the ductwork. Its 66000 btu 80%, My house is 800sqf plus basement. He says I could likely get away with a 40 000 high efficiency furnace. The other guy tried to sell me a 70 000 92%.

I still have to phone the company I have the service contract with and get a good explanation why my furnace was red tagged without a suspected bad heat exchanger being actually looked at. This company just sub contracts out the work. They have just made it bad for the next guy who comes in here to do anything.

I did hear from a few people at work that have had some issues with hvac guys as well. Its also all over the internet about the cracked heat exchanger scams.



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slim


DUNDAS, ONT

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Maybe he thinks you just rolled off the back of the turnip truck. same scam as water damaged cell phone. I think you will find that the furnace in most homes are way to big for what they need. Had a friend downsize his home new place the furnace and blower came on but hardly blew anything out the vents. Pulled the inspection cover off the blower and all hell broke loose once it could get enough air to feed it.The only contact with the company you have the service contract with should be a letter in writing canceling the remainder for fraud or incompetence. I would also follow up with a complaint to the better business bureau. If I was you I'd stick with the guy your buddy recomended. If he cant do it thiers  shorts (mark) from this board out your way dosnt post much here but has a thing going on facebook / narodders good guy and fellow rodder



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What a long strange trip its been
Glen440


AJAX, ONT

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Something has changed in the rules for buying furnaces and AC equipment. You need a gas fitters license for a furnace and an ozone card won't get you an ac unit. My brother installed his own furnace and had a gas fitter sign off on it. Someone at my work just went through not being able to buy an ac unit. He's an automotive mechanic.

I was wearing my work uniform when I met this guy at my house. He knew I was in a licensed trade. I guess he was just dumb because you have to pick and choose who you try to scam. I'm in no hurry for heat. I also have the manual for the furnace and it tells you how to trouble shoot the fault codes.

My main concern was he did something to the furnace so I wanted someone to look at it before turning the gas back on.

The second guy I had here is going to come back in september and take care of the red tag and see how its running again. Basically the furnace was just above the specified heat rise, he made a tweak and lowered it a bit and it stopped triggering the high limit switch.

I'm going to get a copy of what the big company recieved for my service call before I decide my next step. I want to see what their work order says. Mine says everything is good but is uncomplete and only the bottom says there is a problem when there is a section for checking the heat exchanger. I will see if I can take a good picture, my scanner was never unpacked from moving here.



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Glen440


AJAX, ONT

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Here is the work order


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hemi43


ONTARIO

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Hey Glen;
There's nothing illegal about buying a furnace or an AC system with no license. The difficult part is finding someone that will sell you one because they want to protect the licensed HVAC guys out there that went through all the work to get their license. I totally agree with what they're doing, because there would be too many people installing them under the table as a side business. Unfortunately, this makes it difficult (but not impossible)for the few of us that want to to do our own work, in our own homes. I did all the install on my furnace, but had a licensed person turn the gas on and pass the install. Same thing with the AC !! I will be installing the A-coil, tubing and condenser, but will have a licensed person install the tubing and refrigerant. All 100% legal !!



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slab


BRANT COUNTY, ONT

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I have to agree on the "finding someone to sell you parts" I need to find a source for oil furnace parts as my "Trusted "service guy retired. Found that home hardware sells the filters but need to find nozzles. I beleive my inlaws are being scammed by crooks in the oil furnace game. I have tried to get them to go to someone else but......anyway I have been married to their daughter for 7yrs now and they have had two oil tanks installed in that same time frame for rust issues!!!!! I can see the first one replacing and out dated one but the second??? They got lucky on a recent issue when they got a second opinion and some younger and actually honest guys said they didn't need a new furnace as the other guy said.....(they have already put one in again in the last 7yrs) but it was just their old mercury thermostate with the little slider on the bottom!!! Remember those antiques!!

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slab----67 chevy II 2dr post and 66 chevy II hardtop

plus the kids 87 Camaro and 68 SS Camaro
hemi43


ONTARIO

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Hey Slab;
If you can't find someone locally to sell it to you, go online. Not sure what BTU nozzle you need, but here's a link to an E-bay seller that can get them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Burner-Nozzles-ANY-SIZE-6-NOZZLES-FREE-SHIPPING-/230619681886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b201145e

Before I made my final decision on which furnace to buy, I checked online first as to which brands had parts readily available which could be purchased by homeowners. 



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77


BARRIE, ONTARIO

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I thot you could just go by a furnace with an ac unit on it at home depot , then get some lic guy to install it . That's what I was gonna do maybe next summer ..77.

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fatstax


COBOURG, ONT

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tagging furnaces to sell you another one is pretty much standard procedure for most service companies, I had a technician try that bs so I kicked him out of my house, he tried to tell me any furnace over 20 years old is automatically condemned, which is false.  I should have reported this company for trying to scam me.  I did end up replacing the furnace, myself with a used high eff unit I got for 200 bucks.  I did in fact use exactly half the oil I would normally go thru so it was a good idea.



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wolfman1


ST GEORGE, ONT

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If you are sure there was no issue with your heat exchanger and you were being scammed contact the TSSA and make a complaint.
Temperature rise is not a way to determine a cracked heat exchanger
It can be a symptom, I noticed on the report the technician didn't take any CO reading at the vent, which would be a better indication
Poor air flow will give you a high temperature difference, which could be undersized ductwork, dirty filter

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Gearhead


ELORA, ONT

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Glen440 wrote:

He told me the furnace is too big for the house and the ductwork. Its 66000 btu 80%, My house is 800sqf plus basement. He says I could likely get away with a 40 000 high efficiency furnace. The other guy tried to sell me a 70 000 92%.

I still have to phone the company I have the service contract with and get a good explanation why my furnace was red tagged without a suspected bad heat exchanger being actually looked at. This company just sub contracts out the work. They have just made it bad for the next guy who comes in here to do anything.

 

 

Do NOT get a furnace with too much BTU,  especially a high efficiency model...it will run shorter cycles more often and not run long enough to be efficient. (I ran into this very problem)



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69SS454


MILTON, ONT

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I have a friend with a near new oil furnace for sale. He switched over to nat gas. I can forward pics, info and price if anyone is interested. Also has a nat gas pool heater available.

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I DO WHAT THE LITTLE VOICES TELL ME TO DO.
mike b


GREENBANK. ONT

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IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE YOU FURNCE AND ARE ON A GAS MAIN LOOK AT GETING GAS I JUST CHANGED OVER OIL WAS 3000$ A YEAR GAS UNDER 700$ GOT CENTRAL AIR AND NEW H E FURNACE FOR 72004 FROM HAROLD'S HEATING 7053572010 IN SUNDERLAND ON

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mike b


GREENBANK. ONT

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SOULD READ 7200$

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EVEN PAPASMURF WEARS DEMONDWEAR CLOTHING
hemi43


ONTARIO

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mike b wrote:

SOULD READ 7200$

 $3000 if you all the work yourself.smile



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mike b


GREENBANK. ONT

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hemi43 wrote:
mike b wrote:

SOULD READ 7200$

 $3000 if you all the work yourself.smile

 2 DAYS WORK FOR THE PROS NO PAPER WORK THEY GET ALL THE PERMITS AND DEAL WITH TH GAS CO HOOK UP FROM THE MAIN TO THE HOUSE  IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF SILL HAVE TO GET IT CETIFIDE BY GAS CO INSURANCE CO DO NOT COVER DOIT YOURSELF WORK ON THIGS LIKE THAT



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EVEN PAPASMURF WEARS DEMONDWEAR CLOTHING
hemi43


ONTARIO

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I like keeping my money in my pocket.

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