How do you heat your house

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

How do you heat your house

wolfman1 · ST GEORGE, ONT

Ground source heat pump would be the cheapest to operate but very expensive to install
Propane is expensive to operate
If you go with oil, I would recommend a "combo" set-up
With the combo set-up you buy an oil fired water heater and pipe it to packaged air handler that has a hot water coil ,an a/c coil and fan unit.
You are then using the hot water from the water heater to heat your house
Oil hot water use to be cheaper than natural gas because it burns hotter and therefore you have less recovery time on the tank, but its been a few years since I've seen comparison charts
You can always add an air to air heat pump to your electric furnace but will still be using 100% electric on the very cold days
The heat pump will save you money when it is -5 or warmer , but there are more of those heating days than the really cold days

hemi43 · ONTARIO

You don't have too many options. To save a bit of money monthly, you could switch to oil, but the initial investment would be very expensive. Another problem with oil, is that your home insurance will increase because of the risk of fuel spills (which rarely happen). Like I mentioned in another post, it used to cost me about $8.00/day to heat my shop with oil, and since I switched over to gas, the cost has dropped to around $2.50/day for a 2500sq/ft shop kept at 68 degrees. No help for you, but just wanted to show how much of a savings there is with gas.
Propane is another option, but it wont be much cheaper than hydro. Looks like you're stuck with hydro. Look on the bright side, it's clean,safe, 100% efficient,furnace repairs are dirt cheap and need no maintenance. Or you could move!!

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

At $400./mth for heat, I'd be looking to rent a place in Florida.
All kidding aside, there seams to be no inexpensive alternative. Electric is expensive, natural gas, oil, propane, wood, geothermal, solar panels...all have high costs involved.
I'd opt for solar, kinda what I'm looking into at the moment, if I decide to stay here and build a new shop.

dualquadpete · BLACKSTOCK, ONT

I went propane to get away from Elect. baseboard heating back in 96 with the hopes that N/Gas would come here. Propane was cheap to start out, but kept climbing ea. yr. N/gas finally came here & I switched over & then put a G/line out to shop with a "HOT DAWG" over head unit heater!! House is 1200 sq. feet + basement, G/hot water heater, fireplace,& Dryer & shop at 900sq. ft. at 50 F all winter, last bill was $155 for the mth. but will be more with this "sub Zero" extended cold snap!!! I'm on my own here so not much laundry & dishes to wash. House has "set" back T/Stat to 68 F thru the day

jarvis1 · COBBLE HILL, BC

If you have the room, geo thermal with a heat pump is good.
You can run the pipes horizontal or have a well digger put them down a hole.

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

jarvis1 wrote:
If you have the room, geo thermal with a heat pump is good.
You can run the pipes horizontal or have a well digger put them down a hole.

We had that originally at our shop, but when it was time to replace it, it was cheaper to install a high efficiency gas furnace and central air than putting in new ground source furnace only. The outside stuff was still good. The problem my wife found with the ground source is the temp of the air coming out of the registers is about 90*F, so it feels cool.

fatchuk · ST MARYS, ONTARIO

I have a ground source Water furnace.. I have a 2000 foot loop buried 6 ft in the ground ..I installed it in 1990 ,this will be 24 years now ,last fall I had to replace the compressor but it has heated and cooled my house with not one issue other than routine maintenance , no oil truck, no propane truck, at first it took us a winter or so to get used to it not blowing hot air from the furnace and then cooling down..this is more inclined to run more and yes the air coming from the vent is only about 80 or less with the stat set @ 70..but after we got used it I like the steady temperature rather than the hot and cold conventional forced air furnace..Usually cost me between 125 to 150 a month over the winter for heat ,running the A/C in the summer increases my hydro bill about $25 a month..Now with the huge increase in Hydro rates (thanks to the A$$hole Liberals and the Hydro scam) my heat bill has reached about $250 to $300 for Dec due the "POLAR-VORTEX" bullpoop and the liberals.. I think the waterfurnace or ground source is the best bang you get even though the initial investment is a bit high but the loop is warrantied for 50years at least mine is, so I will be able to be underground to watch it as if and when it fails..I have not regretted one dime on this investment and I am going to replace this one either this year or next with a new one and yep it's going to be around $12,000.00 but I never have to put a drop of oil or gas in or have a oil truck in my yard..It has been a great investment and if your planning in staying in your house for a long time I would highly recommend it..I think the only thing I might consider over this if I was building a house or a shop I would seriously be looking into in floor heat as an alternative..

fatstax · COBOURG, ONT

i bought a high eff oil furnace a few years ago off a buddy of mine who is a heating contractor for 200 dollars and installed it myself. i will say i was rather amazed at how cheap i heat my house now, almost half the cost of my old furnace that quit. im about 200 a month for heat which is pretty good.

oldkoot · BROCKVILLE, ONT

Does anyone have any experience with this style of heat pump. Looks like half the price of NG and got to be 1/3 the price of hydro, wonder what the cost to install?

http://mitsubishielectric.ca/en/hvac/zuba-central/index.html

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Been heating strictly with wood for just over 40 years. Wouldn't be without it.
When the power is down, stove will still heat your'e house/shop, cook the meals, heat the water, dry the clothes etc
No nicer time of year in springtime on those sunny warming up days to be in the bush cutting firewood, then split and pile it right there, haul it out in the fall, and fill the woodshed. AS good as money in the bank!

jarvis1 · COBBLE HILL, BC

Out here a new heat pump with electric heat backup will run about $7,000 to $8,000 installed. A freind has one and his electric bill has gone way down. We probably would never need the electric back up as it hardly ever goes below 0*C.

wolfman1 · ST GEORGE, ONT

Oldkoot the link you posted

Looks to be an air to air heat pump but good for lower ambient temperature

Mitsibuishi products are expensive as hell

I've used their ductless split system air conditioners in the past and although they were good products, the parts dept sucked when I needed parts.

-- Edited by wolfman1 on Thursday 23rd of January 2014 07:35:54 PM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

Heating with wood is a waste of time unless you have a bush lot. At $350 a bush cord, it's cheaper to burn oil.

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
Heating with wood is a waste of time unless you have a bush lot. At $350 a bush cord, it's cheaper to burn oil.

I think he has a bush lot!

-- Edited by JPB on Friday 24th of January 2014 07:58:57 AM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

JPB wrote:
hemi43 wrote:
Heating with wood is a waste of time unless you have a bush lot. At $350 a bush cord, it's cheaper to burn oil.
I think he has a bush lot!

-- Edited by JPB on Friday 24th of January 2014 07:58:57 AM

I figured that, but was saying it probably isn't an option for Oldkoot. My wife will tell me to put a fire on when it's extremely cold, but I keep telling her that it's cheaper to crank the furnace up higher because of the high cost of wood. Even if I did have a bush lot and NG, I would be using NG. Too much work. LOL

hemi43 · ONTARIO

toomuchjunk wrote:

A friend of mine had to get rid of his oil burner 'cuz the insurance company didn't like the risk.
TMJ

That's what is happening around here. TSSA says oil tanks are good forever as long as there's no rust or physical damage. Insurance companies are making their own rules and making customers replace them after 10 years old (depending on insurance company). The problem now is that tanks aren't $500 anymore. They are now $2500 because they are double walled, and must be installed by a licensed technician. Big ripoff !!

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Re: Oil tanks are now $2500.00 And must be installed by a licensed technician:
WRONG. A double walled 200 gallon oil tank is $900.00 and it can be switched/ installed by the owner.
Misc. for fitting changes etc are about $100.00 extra.
This is Insurance Co. inspection approved after installation.

Ziggy · TRENTON, ONT

I had 450L of heating oil delivered Jan 8th. Cost me $579.83. $1.1390/L PLUS HST. I use about 2 tanks a season. (1,800 L)

hemi43 · ONTARIO

sasquatch wrote:
Re: Oil tanks are now $2500.00 And must be installed by a licensed technician:
WRONG. A double walled 200 gallon oil tank is $900.00 and it can be switched/ installed by the owner.
Misc. for fitting changes etc are about $100.00 extra.
This is Insurance Co. inspection approved after installation.

Oil tanks must be installed by licensed technicians because home owners can't even buy the tanks unless it's done through a back-door deal.

Here's a quote from that article;Typically fuel oil tank replacement costs were in the $1,200.00/$1,500.00 range; this cost could now easily double.

Now get back outside and chop some wood, cause it's gonna be a cold winter.

http://www.annamcewen.com/viewcustompage.php?id=6595

Slammed 35 · HOOTERVILLE, ONT

Ground loop geothermal 6 ton heat pump here. On our second system. First one Dad put in back in the late 70,s and I replaced it about 5 years ago. No nat. gas available here. On days like today it works pretty hard to keep up in this 185 year old house.

slab · BRANT COUNTY, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Re: Oil tanks are now $2500.00 And must be installed by a licensed technician:
WRONG. A double walled 200 gallon oil tank is $900.00 and it can be switched/ installed by the owner.
Misc. for fitting changes etc are about $100.00 extra.
This is Insurance Co. inspection approved after installation.
Oil tanks must be installed by licensed technicians because home owners can't even buy the tanks unless it's done through a back-door deal.
Here's a quote from that article;Typically fuel oil tank replacement costs were in the $1,200.00/$1,500.00 range; this cost could now easily double.
Now get back outside and chop some wood, cause it's gonna be a cold winter.

http://www.annamcewen.com/viewcustompage.php?id=6595

I think you guys are both right. I installed my own tanks about 5-6yrs ago. Had them inspected by the oil company and a copy of the report sent to insurance company. But...I had a guy on the inside who had an account with the company who sells the tanks and furnace supplies. With out the inside connection ...probably wouldn't have been able to get the tanks as easily if at all. It's one of those things you can't get at Home Depot and the business is a closed to those who aren't lienced installers type of game. My inside connection has since retired so I have to find a new source when the time comes or switch to some other heat. Natural gas is down the street but it would cost me over 10000 to bring the line down(already got a quote) then I need two furnaces.

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Thanks Slab , we're both right i agree, it depends on what area or part of Ontario you live in.
Some people aren't aware that regulations vary from area to area.

poncho62 · ADMINISTRATOR

Use NG here...its an older farm house, fairly well insulated, could use a couple of new doors and windows. On equal billing, pay $83/month year round.....Have gas furnace, clothes dryer, stove, water heater, gas fireplace.

When I moved in here 5 years ago, we were on one of these gas provider deals where a separate company supplied the gas. I think they were called Just Energy or something. I dont know how I got tied with these crooks, maybe it came with the house, I dont know. Anyways, it kept going up and up and I was paying $170/month. They sent me a renewal last year. I told them to shove it and I would go back to Union Gas. Bill dropped almost $100/month. I dont know how these crooked companies are allowed to exist.

Fordy Acres Car Farm · DORCHESTER, ONT

I WAS heating my house with natural gas.... until this morning! I woke up to a chilly 13 degrees at 6:15AM!!!! Went down to have a peek. Breaker: on. Took the cover off, pilot light: out. Came upstairs to check NG fireplace: working. Went to thermostat to check fan/over ride: working. Hmmm....I wonder....Could the vent be blocked? Suit up, go out to the east side of the house and sure enough, TOTALLY COVERED! By about 2 feet of drifting snow!

If you've got direct vent furnace or water heater, check them regularly - both of mine were covered!

el toro · LONDON, ONT

We heat with NG and in 2012 it cast us $960. We replaced the furnace and AC that fall with high efficiency units and in 2013 the bill dropped to $560. Our house is 1870sqft and 25yrs old.

69SS454 · MILTON, ONT

I have electric base heaters on the main floor (bungelo) and a nat. gas fireplace in the basement. The house is an early 70s I think and gas was not available in my rural area. I guess at the time it was cheaper than oil so there is no ductwork. A few years ago they ran the gas up the street and to get it to the house you had to install 2 gas appliances so the owners put in a gas water tank and ran a hook-up for a fireplace. The previous renters had installed a gas fireplace but took the fireplace and pipe. They left the vent part going through the wall to the outside so I git lucky there. I pick up a used gas fireplace for $300 on line and had a licenced friend do the install. Had to use him because you can't buy anything for it without the licence. So I run the fireplace downstairs and only 3 of the 6 base boards upstairs on low. Combined last month (gas/hydro) I was at about $400 and that includes running a large 8' hot tub in the backyard. I am on a well for water so no water bill helps out alot. As for cable and internet...well thats a rant for another day. Stay warm my friends

Gearhead · ELORA, ONT

How about building a Rocket Mass Heater? cant get cheaper than this

www.inspirationgreen.com/rocket-mass-heaters.html

Google rocket mass heaters. You can build them in all kinds of configurations. I plan on building a workshop heated by one. They use sticks and small pieces of wood instead of heavy lumber and radiate heat for very long periods of time.

-- Edited by Gearhead on Saturday 25th of January 2014 10:33:57 AM

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

I was a Sales manager / T.S.S.A rep for a fuel company that will remain un-named. This type business is one of the most corrupt I've ever encountered so I didn't last past 2 years. Couldn't take the bullsh*t. Slab and Sasquatch are correct, the Gov't has laid out the basics but Oil Companies and Insurance Companies write their own rules and burn the uninformed public.

Ten years ago, prior to working with this Co. we had to repalce furnaces and tanks in 4 of our houses. The furnaces needed it, they were ancient. The tanks were fine in my opinion but the Oil company refused to deliver to tanks over 10 years old. Once out I opened a couple of the tanks, they looked like new, no holes, no pitting, no rust. Nothing - because they had been constructed out of quality steel and were heavy gauge.

Last Nov. past I had the Service Tech. out to do the annual cleaning on the rental houses (I do my own) and the bast*rd red-tagged the oil tank. They're 10 years old remember? "No matter, replace them or else" he said......or else what I wondered?

I called the Gas Co. I supplied them with surveys showing distances from the road and each other(all properties are adjacent to each other) "How much to run lines to 4 houses and one barn" I asked. The answer .........nothing, they allow so many meters of boring per house and because there's 4 there will be no charge.

Ten years ago I made the same request and the answer was "around $15,000.00 ! Things have changed for the better.

I informed my Insurance Company I was converting to Gas. The owner, a friend, said we'd see about a 10% reduction in premiums. Bonus.

He also said the Insurance Industry discovered an off-shore manufacturer of fuel oil tanks has a quality issue and their tanks don't last beyond 10 years. The Oil Companies were purchasing these tanks why?.....because they were cheap - and charging you a premium price to install regardless. My Insurance friend said if your Insurance Co. finds one of those tanks in/on your property they will cancel your Policy. Clean up costs are astronomical.

A friend of our oldest son is licenced for all manner of gas, high pressure, etc and can purchase decent high effeciency furnaces at a reasonable price. Our oldest son is an Electrical Eng and teaches Renewable Energy at College. He ran the numbers, looks like our heating costs (and our tenants) will reduce by 70%. The new furnace and installation will run me around the same price as replacing the oil tank in each place.

Why wouldn't I switch?

I can't wait to tell the owner of the Oil Company.

As an aside I also burn wood, my wife hates the smell and dust but it's staying because we like the type of heat it emits.

Oldkoot, if you can swing the cost Geo Thermal is the way to go. Loops, drilled holes, old wells, running creeks where ever you can find the source.

-- Edited by Iwannagofast on Saturday 25th of January 2014 10:53:20 AM

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

We heat with gas, but if I could afford it Ground source Water furnace for sure! My nephew (electrician) bought one and I helped him bury the water lines. His system has ground water taken in, heat removed and then discharged out. Heats and cools his place of business.The way to go if you can,pays for itself in a few years too.

Gazoo · BADEN, ONT

The geothermal systems are great, if all you consider is the cost of heating and cooling, to keep a constant room temperature.
They are fairly expensive to get installed, but yet still need electricity and pumps to operate.
These systems will not give you hot water, or electricity to run your appliances etc...
That's why I'm looking into either solar panels, and maybe a wind turbine, to get myself off the grid.
The wind turbine would be my preferred choice, but due to having neighbours close by, I'd opt for solar panels.

Let's face it, even your gas furnace needs electricity to run the pilot and the blower. I just got a new high efficiency furnace last fall, and it works great (with hydro), but in 5 years from now (when I figure it's going to need some service), as most of these are built so cheap, I'd be impressed if I get 5 years problem free out of it. Add in the constant increases in hydro, NG gas, and delivery charges...
Yes, I agree, at the moment NG is the cheapest way to go, as I have no choice at the moment.

If I decide to stay here for another 10-15yrs, I'll be converting.

Builderrhys · SARNIA, ONT

oldkoot wrote:
Starting to look around for other heating options, we don't have NG in the area. Electric furnace was reasonable a few years , $12-14/day this time a year( this is the all in bill) and now it's running $18-20/day with the rate and delivery increase and going higher. So my basic hydro bill now runs about $200/month(low density delivery charge is half the bill) with heat being the extra $400+/month. Just curious what you guys might be using that is a cheaper option, I'm too old for slugging wood so thats off the table.

Get ready Ontario, electricity prices are ready to go through the roof. Above is from the Independent Electricity System Operator's (IESO) site. Look at hour 19:00 on Friday, January 24, 2014 peaking out at $224.77 a Mega Watt hour (MWh). I have noticed over the past month that hour 19:00 (Ontario's peaking hour) prices going way up and coming close to our total capacity generation of 26,700 Mega Watts with our usual 1000 Mega Watt import and 3000 Mega Watt export. Our publicly owned generation makes up most of the generation mix with Nuclear being the most expensive at $35.77 MWh to $54.64 MWh. So the privately owned Green Energy portion is driving the cost up nearly five times higher than our publicly owned portion. I have a bit of a biased opinion as I work for Ontario Power Generation, and at that one of the three coal fired power plants that have recently closed (approximately 6500 Mega Watts of cheap reliable power). I have embraced the Green Energy initiatives and move forward in my career with the Provinces or Liberals direction but............ Below is the IESO site explanation of the Global Adjustment margin. This is what is going to kill you on your monthly bill. Heating our homes is one thing but lets hope the increasing power costs do not drive out any more "Industry" from the Province, Rhys.

Global Adjustment.png

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Thanks for the informative post Rhys.

And YES the higher rates are going to drive more manufacturing jobs away, as if we haven't lost enough already!

Gearhead · ELORA, ONT

sasquatch wrote:

And YES the higher rates are going to drive more manufacturing jobs away, as if we haven't lost enough already!

And unions will cause the rest of our manufacturing to move to mexico or overseas.

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

Gearhead wrote:
sasquatch wrote:

And YES the higher rates are going to drive more manufacturing jobs away, as if we haven't lost enough already!
And unions will cause the rest of our manufacturing to move to mexico or overseas.

We can also thank NAFTA for helping in this area. The only country it helped was Mexico.

Molten · CAMBOURNE, ONT

Wood

Rustynuts · MAGNETAWAN, ONT

eloeze 001.JPG I paid $300.00 for 11 bush cord ......I cut the trees from my neighbor's property. Use my '59 case crawler to haul to a landing then use the Belarus 4x4 tractor to bring them to the landing near the house. Then cut/split/pile.

FYI....loggers where paying $8-10.00/face cord....so that's $30.00/ bush cord...the rest is trucking and profit. I pay my neighbour this price too for a face cord on the stump.

-- Edited by Rustynuts on Monday 27th of January 2014 01:11:01 PM

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I paid Habib $350 for a bush cord already cut split and dried, then watched my kids stack them.

sasquatch · NORTH BAY, ONT

Nice little CASE there Rusty!

Not as drunk- Great to see that wood going to someone who will use it, often it is chipped and hauled off to a landfill.

Schnitz · MILTON, ONT

Just saw this article.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-man-builds-300-solar-furnace-decreases-heating-bill-1.2527065

www.youtube.com/watch

I might build a portable (8'x8') unit to heat my garage when I want to work in it in the winter.

parklane · St THOMAS, ONT

Thanks Schnitz. That is an excellent article

58Chev · ETOBICOKE, ONT

Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

58Chev wrote:
Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

My oldest son just tossed one of these together last weekend as a trial. Thing worked great and used 1/10 the wood I used to heat my shop the same day. Looks like we're going to have to build a couple of them now.

Gearhead · ELORA, ONT

Iwannagofast wrote:
58Chev wrote:
Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

My oldest son just tossed one of these together last weekend as a trial. Thing worked great and used 1/10 the wood I used to heat my shop the same day. Looks like we're going to have to build a couple of them now.

They are amazing with the configurations you can make. Trouble might be getting your insurance guy to approve it...the thieving, scumbags....

Heaters the gas companies don't want you to have...even when it is environmentally responsible. But we shouldn't do that when we can exploit the earths resources, create a monopoly and rape people with their billing....second group of scumbags.

We all know I can rant on, but I'll go have a beer instead

hemi43 · ONTARIO

I thought Union people were the first on your list??

JPB · AYLMER, ONT

58Chev wrote:
Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

Thanks for posting.Gonna have to make one of these.

Gearhead · ELORA, ONT

hemi43 wrote:
I thought Union people were the first on your list??

They are group 1b to be specific.

Iwannagofast · ONTARIO

Gearhead wrote:
Iwannagofast wrote:
58Chev wrote:
Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

My oldest son just tossed one of these together last weekend as a trial. Thing worked great and used 1/10 the wood I used to heat my shop the same day. Looks like we're going to have to build a couple of them now.
They are amazing with the configurations you can make. Trouble might be getting your insurance guy to approve it...the thieving, scumbags....
Heaters the gas companies don't want you to have...even when it is environmentally responsible. But we shouldn't do that when we can exploit the earths resources, create a monopoly and rape people with their billing....second group of scumbags.
We all know I can rant on, but I'll go have a beer instead

My Insurance guy can go f*ck himself. I've paid out 10's of thousands over 30+ years and the first time I put in a claim they tried to burn me. I'll heat my woodshop however I want, they can kiss my ass. Wanna know how I REALLY feel about Insurance Co.'s?, lol. Stop by for a beer sometime Gearhead.

Gearhead · ELORA, ONT

Iwannagofast wrote:
Gearhead wrote:
Iwannagofast wrote:
58Chev wrote:
Rocket Mass Heaters might be the next big way to heat.

My oldest son just tossed one of these together last weekend as a trial. Thing worked great and used 1/10 the wood I used to heat my shop the same day. Looks like we're going to have to build a couple of them now.
They are amazing with the configurations you can make. Trouble might be getting your insurance guy to approve it...the thieving, scumbags....
Heaters the gas companies don't want you to have...even when it is environmentally responsible. But we shouldn't do that when we can exploit the earths resources, create a monopoly and rape people with their billing....second group of scumbags.
We all know I can rant on, but I'll go have a beer instead
My Insurance guy can go f*ck himself. I've paid out 10's of thousands over 30+ years and the first time I put in a claim they tried to burn me. I'll heat my woodshop however I want, they can kiss my ass. Wanna know how I REALLY feel about Insurance Co.'s?, lol. Stop by for a beer sometime Gearhead.

Oh, I think you and I could empty a few discussing the highway robbery. I added up my monthly premiums. Auto, home, life, mortgage, disability....its insane. I had a flood last spring. ruined basement...coverage was extra. they hose you either way. After the rebuild, I have to pay the premium or risk losing again...I'm reamed no matter what.

Bastards