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Post Info TOPIC: Kinda O / T . But garage related .
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BARRIE, ONTARIO

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Kinda O / T . But garage related .
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hey all . yea its kinda off topic . I live between two loopy neighbours and am planning on moving my one holer garage down into back yard , and building a 2 car  in its place . assuming that I have done a bit of research , re zoning by laws etc , lets skip the basic,s .

has any one used any of the myriad of places out in the world wide web that have steel kit garages . I do not want an hate the look of those corrugated  looking half round ones . I want to build one of the ones that looks like a school portable ie flat roof and walls .

any body have any luck out there

I also have a question regaurding siding . My house has vinyl over the old wood siding . I would like to remove both layers , strap it to bring 2x4 walls out to 2 x 6 sizing , re insulate , wrap an tape , then I will get some one to hang the siding . As I  do most projects my self , having some one do the siding , so it would be done in one day feels allot better .

 My question on that is , what about vapour barrier ??? asked about 5 guys . got five dis similar answers .

I was thinking strip the house , blown in insulation , then wrap strap an re side it .

Some say leave the old 1956 vintage brown paper backed batts in the walls  and put foam board then wrap and side it .

But after doing some inside dry wall repairs I,ve seen some studs with no insul between them .

Any opinions or advice , any one done a project like this ??.

p / m me if not wanting to post replies ..

 oh an also If you wanted to put in a hoist , how thick on the concrete floor and the  rebar .. Thanks ..77.

Edit Note . the sooner I get this last part of my project done , the sooner I can spend more time working on my junk .... so its kinda car related ....



-- Edited by 77 on Saturday 4th of April 2015 01:53:32 PM

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COBBLE HILL, BC

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#1...those steel buildings are always on sale for 50% off.
#2...a four post hoist doesn't need any extra rebar under the legs. 2 post should have some or extend the feet of the posts a foot longer each way.
#3...to "strap" the outside, how do you plan on this? Horizontal 2 x 4's? Then sheet it in with plywood? That would work, but not cheap. You could add the 2 x 4's over your wood siding and put 1 1/2" insulation on. Cheaper than removing your wood siding. Vapour barrier goes on the outside. Tyvek, etc.
There may be someone that knows more about this than I do.

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GALT, ONT

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Starting with the shop.. how about pioneer 1 steel building,, pioneeronesteel.com
I see their ad in farms.com AG buyers guide for Ontario
I am just doing the research myself.. so I don't know anything about this ..

http://pioneeronesteel.com/gallery/rigid/18.jpg

shop

 

they list 40'x60'x16' $29,418  what ever that means... I would suspect plus doors, plus tax, plus assembly for all I know

 



-- Edited by meester_jamie on Saturday 4th of April 2015 02:53:18 PM

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GTA

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I don't have an answer for any of this. I can offer some thoughts though.

My parents have a portion of the front of their house done in vinyl siding. It was done within the last 15 years (previously wood siding ... two story house, vinyl siding between the veranda/porch roof and the top-of-the-house roof). My Dad wanted it done professionally, as he wanted it done right and done quickly. Well, most of it is now bowing out (caused by wind) because, you guessed it, the job was NOT done correctly (I will be personally re-doing at some point this summer). My thoughts regarding things that I can either do myself or can learn how to do myself are ... you'll get a much better job (obviously, realistically depending on the job at hand) if you do it yourself, than you might if pay someone else to do it. Just because "they" do it for a living and can get it done faster, is never a guarantee of a job well done. I shingled my own roof for this very reason .... I did a complete strip, self adhesive ice shield, roofing felt the rest of the entire roof, then shingles with four nails per shingle ... I watched "pro" roofers do other houses in my area and they would do a complete strip, ONE row of roofing felt instead of ice shield, NO roofing felt anywhere else, only THREE nails on a four nail shingle) my roof has been completely leak and problem free since I did it. I honestly can't count how many times I've seen a neighbour have Ave Road Roofing return due to issues caused by poor installation ...

Now, regarding the insulation ... one thing you do not want is something referred to as a "mold sandwich". A previous neighbour was working on finishing his basement ... he vapour barriered the bare cement walls, studded, insulated, vapour barriered again, then drywalled. Water ended up (and I mean this literally) pooling inside his basement walls due to condensation being caught between the two different vapour barriers (hence the term "sandwich"). My understanding is that a single vapour barrier is needed, and that the rest of the wall needs to be permeable, so if vapour is caught, and condensation is created, the wall can either dry to the inside of the house or dry to the outside of the house ... if you trap the vapour behind two vapour barriers, it can't dry, with the end result being unwanted moisture that soon morphs into mold growth ... and believe me, mold growth can be VERY bad for ones health. Very wise of you to feel the need to look into this ahead of time.

Best of luck



-- Edited by pint and a pound on Saturday 4th of April 2015 03:01:05 PM

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GALT, ONT

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jarvis1 wrote:

Vapour barrier goes on the outside. Tyvek, etc.
There may be someone that knows more about this than I do.


 .. well , I'll start with - There IS someone that knows more about this than I do

Tyvek is NOT a vapour  barrier...

Vapour barrier goes on the inside of the wall studs..

The tuff thing for your proposal.. the Vapour barrier must do just that.... ensure that vapour doesn't get to the insulation.... so the vapour barrier must go between the inside of the house,, and the insulation,, making it very difficult to do from the outside in.

what you are proposing for the house will probably mean gutting it from the inside out... but changing the stud size is very hard ,, unless you change the lower plate,, well... lets just say it gets very complicated!!

I would suggest start by calling a pro.. the best you can find... and ask for a quote on what you want to accomplish. They will talk over a LOT of things you won't even think of..

 

well,, I should add... The barrier keeps the moisture from condensating in the walls as it cools in a wall that is heated inside, and cold outside... In southern humid climates, the poly goes on the exterior, as the inside is cold [air conditioning] and the outside is the heated humid space..

 



-- Edited by meester_jamie on Saturday 4th of April 2015 03:25:29 PM

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PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY, ONT

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If the underneath wood siding is nailed directly to the studs, then that is what is keeping the house square. What you are proposing involves many steps and can be quite costly. If you are going to that expense, I would suggest spray foaming the walls from the outside a section at a time and resheathing with 3/8" plywood. No vapour barrier, no stud extenders, no house wrar (Tyvek), no moisture problems and probably far more cost effective then the route you have considered. This also gives a good backing for whatever siding you decide to go with. An alternative, and probably cheaper but messier inside, would be to remove the drywall or plaster/lath from the interior, again spray foam and drywall. No vapour barrier or Tyvek is necessary with spray foam. This is also a good opportunity to upgrade any wiring issues. I was in the business for 40 years and we did many houses this way including the house I now live in. By the way, this can also be done to your shop, just to keep this car related.

Warren

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OAKVILLE, ONT

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better call mike holmes he can fix anything.must be true they show him turning outhouses into palaces in less than an hour.you wanted fast or am I being naive believing what they show.do not answer that else it will leave me in a state shock.good luck whatever way you choose

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ST MARYS, ONTARIO

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Wuga-Warren ..is the man..he is most correct ...I have a friend who just did exactly as Warren said and he was surprised at the cost ( less than many other suggestions) and he realized a good saving on his heat bill this winter and like Warren said no vapor barrier required the job turned out great and really warmed up the house ..I just went through the gutting my place from the inside ..It's a 175 year old stone house and I wanted to keep the stone ..took me 10 years , at least the cost of two riddler rods .. If I had to do again I would have dug a hole and buried the place ..I say the spray on out side, new sheeting and side her..best bang for your buck..



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BUCKHORN, ONT

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i used inch and a half silverboard styrofoam and  strapped with 1x4 to hang the vinyl. you don't need the typar if using silverboard because of the foil film front and back you must tape ALL joints to comply with code.

003.JPG014.JPG



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77


BARRIE, ONTARIO

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Thanks to all the reply,s . I,ll be re reading them over the next while
by strapping the house , a friend who has worked on a bunch of houses for people suggested 2 x 2 strapping screwed to 2x4,s so you could spray in or put in thicker insulation
the wood siding is whole but pretty ratty . So that is the main reason I was thinking to get rid of it .
Wuga I,ll probably p / m you after a bit of thinking , when you said section , do you mean like re insul then re skin one whole wall , or do you mean like the lower half of one wall , strip it , insul , then skin with ply , then do top half of wall same way .
I under stand how the wood siding would give the house structural strength . Its funny , when I talked to a local builder he said oh yea , just peel both layers of siding and put on 2 inches foam board , the siding an call it done .
He said basically quote un quote oh don,t worry the top an sill plates will hold it together ..... Hmmmm , I decided right after that to not really talk to this dude any more
house is a 28 x 36 raised bungalow circa 1956 built with rough cut 2 x 4 ,s . Thanks again ..77.

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COBBLE HILL, BC

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Those steel buildings will sweat and drip all over the place unless insulated.


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S/W ONTARIO

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You should listen to Wuga that is the way to go.
There is no way to put up the vapor barrier from the outside. Other than trying to fit it in between the studs. I guarantee after
a few stud openings you will give up.
I usually put building wrap on the outside if the studs are exposed. Even with spray foam.
Just me,,I like building wrap with the joints taped.
No 6 mil. poly required with spray foam.
What ever you do the vapor barrier goes on the inside/the warm side of the insulation!!! And only one layer.
The picture that Studeshaker posted,,, see the 2x6 that runs horizontally along the bottom?
If your house or shop looks like that make sure that bottom board (whether it is 1x or 2x) is continuous. No end gaps at all.
If there is a gap or gaps you will have a ton of mice living in the walls. They can run back and forth along that space.
If you build a steel shop put building wrap on before the siding and tape it.
If you have room in a corner rough it in for a sink/basin and a urinal.
I just built a 30x40 pole barn a year and a half ago and it is great.
Good luck
TMJ

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77


BARRIE, ONTARIO

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On a 75 x 180 lot in the city . unfortunately by the time I convinced myself to build a bigger garage ( ie .. lost two free prime storage spots ) . the city has come up wirth a barrie the beautiful line of b/s . On my street there are several garages that are huge , one large enuff to put a dump truck in . one has 3 bays with floor pits . One is made of particle board and half rotted out
now city has a rule 23 x 23 . I need maybe 24 but by 26 or 28 long and have to apply for a variance to get the extra length . want to be able to put my truck an my car trailer inside , outta site , outta mind .
Thinking maybe build 23 x 23 then tack on a lil addition on back on one half , in order to get the extra length .
Or as one of my buddies mentioned yesterday , buy a another place that already has a shop on it . then rent this place out an use the payments to cover the mortgage . ..77.

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BLACKSTOCK, ONT

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I found out about the variance "after" I built my shop, Scugog Twp. said no bigger than 24 X36 after taking the house & shed out of the equation. Then on final Insp. the Inspector says you could have gone for a variance!!! Been up a few yrs. now I am going to "start" with a car port at back to park the car trailer under, then, "slowly" start putting sides & door!!!

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