Boy, you really like to dig into things to complain about ! How the hell do you figure they are trying us to stop from fixing our cars from that article?
pay close attn to the line "the farmer's don't actually own the equipment but simply have an agreement to use "...
john deer isn;'t the only company now pushing this idea , there are a number of them
this plan will eventually filter down to most consumer products as they become deemed intelectual properties
I believe the software is the "key" they're useing to move this idea forward
so .. maybe one day in the future you walk out to find some new car in the driveway as you'vre recieved an "update" while you were sleeping .. just like on your computer when windows updates
you will then of course be automatically billed unless you cancel your car subscription ...
Full points Petebil, this forum is becoming the 2 guys in the balcony of the muppets! Smokin Joe, no offense intended and I think you are correct that eventually the average guy will not be allowed to work on cars but personally I think that is a good thing. The average shade tree mechanic does know that all bolts must be torqued, I can't imagine what would happen if the same guy started poking around with a Hybrid system. I suspect you will see the insurance companies take this ball and run with it at some point in the next 5 years. There will be a new piece of fine print introduced into your policy that voids the policy if an un-certified repair contributed to the accident. Do you really want to lose your house over an at home brake job? I've seen way too many "shade tree" brake jobs where some clown does not read the manual, uses the wrong grease, helicoils the mounts, etc. Its not fair that he is driving behind me and risking my safety. Already, you need a scan tool to replace a battery on a BMW so in reality, this concept is already here.
I am quite knowledgeable of the laws that pertain to our hobby, and also quite aware of what the SVAO is about and what they do. If fact, I've had dealings with some of their members over the years about certain issues being rammed down our throats by the Government. I'm bad with names, but one of the Guys was an ex MTO enforcement officer now residing near St Catherines, and the other was from East Oshawa. If you're a member of SVAO, you will know who I'm referring to.
As old car owners, we all have a responsibility to educate ourselves about the laws that affect our hobby, but to be honest this forum tends to lean towards doom&gloom a bit too much and really not what I want to read with my morning coffee. Your original post had nothing to do about working on cars as far as hot rods, and that's why I pointed it out. Not being able to work on certain parts of our cars has been around for 30+ years and it's not going to get better. Like Livetodrive said, that may be a good thing because some of the crap I see going down the road scares the hell out of me.
SVAO is here to protect our special interest cars. We and they don't care about your computer controlled car and in fact even though you bought the car, the Company still owns the proprietary software and is allowed to run on your car by licence to you through your car lease or purchase. Let's get back to worrying about real, not imagined barriers to driving our special interest cars. About historical plates, if you want to enjoy the freedom of driving anywhere at any time, get a regular plate and regular insurance.
Guys.....I always appreciate various points of view on all subjects. Problem is, people tend to get their backs up or feelings hurt when challenged on things. I have let debates go too far sometimes in some peoples minds, but I feel that all are entitled to their point of view.
I guess all I am trying to say is to please keep it civil....No need to get personal, just state your case......thanks
The home appliance industry is already affected with this mentality. The LG brand of appliances is one. They will not share tec information or sell parts to anyone without a LG company work order by from a LG service shop. That means if you buy a LG product some ware and take it home you better hope there is a local LG rep in your town to fix it. Independents like me can't get parts for LG thru our parts destributers neither can the appliance owner for anything other than trim peices.We used to get parts and info for years when LG was known as Goldstar but there policy changed with the name change. This is ok if you know about this policy ahead of time and choose to purchase something that the local guy can fix, but if you buy Sears Kenmore , some of them are made by LG . Same issue although sometimes I can get parts thru Sears at high cost and a long delay. So watch what you buy and ask questions about repairs cause the days of you hiking off to the local shop to buy a pump are also numbered. Be carefull what you wish for cause it might just jump up and bite you in the wallet. Ed
This practice will only last so long. Consumers hopefully will become aware of these tactics and will purchase the brand that is cheaper in the long haul. Hopefully the manufacturers will see this through lost sales. If all domestic manufacturers get together and have a monopoly on the masses, then we're screwed, but I highly doubt this because it will open the door for foreign made items to fill the void.
Not really car related but I just went through this with an 8 year old Frigidaire front load washer. The spider support failed, so I took it apart, thinking it was a bearing. When I discovered the fault, Frigidaire would not warranty it because I took it apart (25 year warranty). I sent an e-mail to Janas Samuelson, the president of Electrolux asking if he was proud of the way this claim was being handled. We got a call the next day at 8:30am advising that the drum, spider and rear tub would be waiting for pick up at the Mississauga warehouse. Overall, I was pretty impressed with how they handled it once I cut out the call center robots!
I am sure people take their appliances apart in the event of a failure and try to fix them. Sometimes they are under warranty but only for the part, not labour. In many cases, they cause more damage then originally broken. The manufacturer has a right to protect himself also. In two cases, once with a water heater and again with an expensive coffee maker, I attempted a repair with no luck and then had warranty issues with the manufacturer. When they saw I knew what I was doing, they honoured the warranty. In this day and age, if an appliance lasts 10 years, you are a winner. I have LG appliances and they have a ten year warranty on the most expensive parts. I personally like them and am willing to chance a breakdown which I've never had. My daughter with her five year old LG washer broke the drive motor, fixed with no problems or questions. It is true, more and more companies are demanding that you use their authorized repair people and won't sell the parts over the counter.
I agree, 10 years is about the best you can hope for now a days but I dug my heels in on this one. If you look at the failed part, its pretty clear they should have coated the aluminum to prevent degradation. If you had to pay labor to replace it, it would probably be more than the machine is worth so they likely never have to honor the warranty.
I have never in my life ever required the services of an appliance guy, plumber,electrician, furnace tech or any other so called "professional". This may change in the near future because of the specialized instruments and software needed to diagnose and repair certain items. Good example is the newer GM cars. The aftermarket has given us great software to use on home computers to "hack" into the OEM PCMs, but there's still a large area we can't get into unless we have the proper tool like the TECH2 and the related software.
So called professionals, nice attitude towards other peoples jobs. Wow arrogance lives. I can understand those who are so talented that they can fix everything, but is it necessary to belittle those who provide a service to those who choose to use a so called professional I am sure all the so called professional auto mechanics on this page appreciate this as well. Ed
-- Edited by flatblack55delivery on Monday 11th of July 2016 09:09:10 AM
Ed, I actually make a pretty good living repairing vehicles that these "talented" people have fixed. I just wish I had not wasted my time going through my apprenticeship for both HDV and LDV, ASE certs and Drive Clean certs. Apparently all you need is a magic computer and a pair of coveralls. Ba ha ha!
Magic computer and a pair of coveralls, no, but some just common sense. In any given trade, only about 25% are really true professionals that are good at their trade and the rest should be WalMart greeters. Whether you like it or not, this is the way it is, be it automotive mechanics, appliance techs, furnace guys or even doctors. Sorry, but I'm not pissing money down the drain only to find out there's only a 1 in 4 chance I'm going to get a knowledgeable person. I guess the same ratio applies for guys that do work on their own cars at home, where three out of the four shouldn't own tools.
About 10 years ago I bought a high end fridge that quit 6 months after purchase, so being under warranty the "tech" guy came out to repair it. After a week of screwing around and 3 guys later it still wasn't working. Thankfully they had left the service manual behind so I tried to find out what was wrong. The replacement part had 2 wires reversed in the connector, and after 30 minutes I had it running again. No one tries to diagnose problems anymore, they just throw parts at it until it works. The problem with this type of repair is that it ends up costing YOU more money than it should have.
Sadly, I agree. My sense is that the new generation has no interest in fixing, they just get a new one.....now! Money is cheap, why bother saving up. I don't understand the mentality and I just feel old.
For whats its worth, I'll share a personal experience. A few years back, I was subpoenaed to testify on behalf of the crown for some "automotive repair forensics". I thought it would be satisfying to see someone held accountable for have assed DIY repairs. When you are called to witness you have to sit outside the courtroom and the young guys wife/partner was outside with their baby. Based on her cell calls it was pretty easy to piece together, he had tried to fix a car without proper training/tools to try and make some money under the table. Worse, because of his immigration status, a conviction meant he was being sent back to Russia. She was Canadian so there were plenty of tears. I testified to what I had seen and he had clearly fumbled the job. He was found guilty and their was a stupid large fine involved. I have no idea if they actually deported him. Understand, I really don't care if somebody wants to do their own repairs but please take the time to do the research and buy the tools to do it correctly. I get particularly concerned when people start messing around with vehicle frames and a Princess Auto welder. Frames are engineered to crush in specific places and if you just stick in some square tubing the crush factor is compromised. I had the joy of being privy to a "fatal" where frame connectors were welded into a Plymouth Cuda and the connector intruded into the passenger compartment during an accident. No attitude here, just don't let your pride get you in trouble.
