I've gone a few times it's pretty good. Jeff the organizer is a great guy. This sounds interesting about getting the MTO and OPP out to discuss...

Petebil wrote:

---

What is there to discuss ? We know what the rules are, so just follow them ! Not once have I heard someone getting busted that they didn't deserve. Do I agree with some of the rules, no I don't, but I still have to comply.
There's over 1500 members here, and I would like to hear from just one that was wrongfully charged. I don't think there is one, and if there was, hopefully they took it to court and had a Judge make the proper lawful decision and not a Cop on the side of the road using his interpretation of the law. This is not the 70's anymore and we all have to have a responsibility to know what's legal and what's not, and it's very easy now with the advent of the internet. Maybe this new enforcement will rid the streets of the crap that shouldn't be there to begin with.

---

         Excellent      well said   

assets-auto.rbl.ms/5845fc26445c48352df417aa9e82bf27f5fce8ee3b7dc0bd2727818ae01859e7

Went last night, 2 OPP officers there but the MTO was a no show!!! OPP were quite good on what they are looking for, he said that if you are driving "normal" in your classic, Hot Rod, Modified vehicle, & it looks to be in good condition they will not bother you, they have better things to do, but did admit that there are officers in all police depts. that may have a "bone" on against these cars but few & far between!!! Also said that the majority of officers are not "expert" enough to know what is modified & how safe it is ,so if it's uncertain they will call in the MTO or a Lic. mechanic to make the decision!!! Also said if you do get stopped, "attitude" goes a long way with most officers, start out like a "PR" & you'll have a rough time. They also had a mechanic there that answered ? on new safeties, & said there really wasn't a whole lot of changes, other than the documentation of readings, stone chips in w/shield, & head light height, But did say the "Up to OEM specs. is a "Very grey area" as they have nothing to go to for specs. He also was asked a bit about the MOE & engine swaps, confirmed a "crate" engine is exempt, but the answer he got on pre 1999 swaps was " It's up to you to prove it" in court!! NICE answer. All in all, the general consensus was what we are hearing in the rumour dept. is just that, last thing said by host Jeff, the OPP & mechanic said was "GET OUT & ENJOY driving your cars, don't be afraid of the rumours" Both OPP guys were out in the parking lot "scoping" out our rides, asking questions & seemed "impressed" Jeff is going to try & get MTO to show up possibly next week?? Best $5 I ever spent, even though we didn't stay for the movie, learned a lot, had some laughs,& saw some vehicles I've never seen before!!!

Livetodrive wrote:

---

Not sure about the GM crate engines but the Mopar Performance engines have this statement attached. Not much wiggle room here:

These parts may be used only on
vehicles used solely in sanctioned off-highway events. No other applications
are intended or implied.

---

 The GM Catalog is a little more generous, this is their wording:  • Designed for pre-1976 street vehicles or any off-road vehicle

 

We used to have customers sign the work order when Mopar Performance parts were installed to aknowledge it was for "off road" only.  If they got into an issue with MOE it always ended in tears.  

Good report Pete

Glad you were able to make it.

Cliff  

We had to protect the business. Yeah i hear ya.
nothing to do with catalysts. simply not true.
I Don't understand the mentality personally.Nothing personal but you wouldnt understand nor have a clue as too the **** we've been through i wish it upon NO ONE.
just obey the laws and everything is ok. Works for me! Hear you there As well.

However statues an act's are not "LAWS" they are a Legislative rule of society .which requires the consent of the governed..[too which i do not personally belong too.]

Legislative Rule Law & Legal Definition

A legislative rule is an administrative rule adopted by a government agency in accordance with the notice and comment requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act. It can be created by an agency's exercise of delegated quasi-legislative authority. These rules have the force of law and it imposes new duties on the regulated parties. Legislative rule is also known as substantive rule.


Substantive Law

The part of the law that creates, defines, and regulates rights, including, for example, the law of contracts, torts, wills, and real property; the essential substance of rights under law.[Including the constitution an charter which cancels out all that is written here]

Substantive law and procedural law are the two main categories within the law. Substantive law refers to the body of rules that determine the rights and obligations of individuals and collective bodies. Procedural law is the body of legal rules that govern the process for determining the rights of parties.

Substantive law refers to all categories of public and private law, including the law of contracts, real property, torts, and Criminal Law. For example, criminal law defines certain behavior as illegal and lists the elements the government must prove to convict a person of a crime. In contrast, the rights of an accused person that are guaranteed by the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments to the U.S./Canadian Constitution are part of a body of criminal procedural law.

U.S. substantive law comes from the Common Law and from legislative statutes. Until the twentieth century, most substantive law was derived from principles found in judicial decisions. The common-law tradition built upon prior decisions and applied legal precedents to cases with similar fact situations. This tradition was essentially conservative, as the substance of law in a particular area changed little over time.

Substantive law has increased in volume and changed rapidly in the twentieth century as Congress and state legislatures have enacted statutes that displace many common-law principles.[Thus equal's FRAUD] In addition, the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws and the American Law Institute have proposed numerous model codes and laws for states to adopt. For example, these two groups drafted the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), which governs commercial transactions. The UCC has been adopted in whole or substantially by all states, replacing the common law and divergent state laws as the authoritative source of substantive Commercial Law.

You might also want to read : www.freedom-school.com/uniform-bonding-code.pdf

Peace To all.

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 09:14:35 AM

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 09:20:50 AM

Bob,

I used to enjoy the fight as well but in the end "I fought the law and the law won".  Nowadays if it says 100km, I drive 100km.  If I want to drive faster, I go to the track.  Following the laws leaves so much more time and $$ for my own projects.  I do admire your energy level to try and justify your position on each regulation though.

This is not about "Nowadays if it says 100km, I drive 100km" or disregard you can't drive that speed anywhere in most cases ...these days it boils down to being unsafe with so many Hmmmm for lack of better words .So many licenced folks that should not be on the roads ...an the congestion.

For clarity "I used to enjoy the fight as well" Never enjoyed it ...Do not enjoy it!!! It's become a must to survive for protection against tyrants committing extortion.

Livetodrive wrote:

---

For clarity, my point is, if any individual installs a Mopar Performace part that is labeled "off road use only" and they get their plates pulled on roadside inspection why do they suddenly start crying the blues.  I'm dealing with that exact scenario at work right now where the guy installed a diesel engine in an OBD certified gasoline truck.  Now the plates are gone and he has a lawn ornament.  WTF?

---

 Ok i can think of a million ways to help the guy out..

However he is now a target...

Best option E-bay an export said truck.

Livetodrive wrote:

---

Ironically, they also pointed out that this law applies.  Crap, now you have me quoting lawyer stuff, eeeeek!

 

Motors and motor vehicles, environmental controls

Sale of motor vehicle that does not comply with regulations

22. (1) No person shall sell, or offer, expose or advertise for sale, a motor or motor vehicle that does not comply with the regulations. R.S.O. 1990, c. E.19, s. 22 (1).

---

 Ok I've posted enough on these boards ,Driven some folk's nutz no doubt!

However what i've posted through out will tell you...That the above you have posted is simply of no force nor effect..

I will try to discontuine posting such as there is enough remedies already posted to help anyone that that chooses to defend themselves with great success...

Pay attention to "No person" those words hold many keys.....That will unlock millions of doors.

 

You do know livetodrive...I actually Like you...You're honest an fair an can debate like a true gentleman...With out a piss n match...Me likes that>

An now i've gotta get off me arse an go do some tin work...

 

 

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 10:45:36 AM

-- Edited by Ground Pounder on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 10:47:10 AM

Well , back to the original topic ....don't know how well the meeting went but had I been there ,I would have asked what the " new regulations " are aimed at . Safety ? Accident prevention ? Great , I'm all in .

Here's a novel idea . Two of the local cops borrow / rent a truck for one day ......perhaps a big van or something that is high off the ground so that the cops can get a good overhead view of what is going on .Then , simply drive around town all day with one cop driving and the other tabulating what they find . Just look for cell phone/texting / distracted driving . When the cops get to 100 sightings , which won't take long , go back to see your supervisor and reveal the epidemic that really exists . THAT is the safety problem .
Loud exhausts ? Great ! Pull over virtually every motor cycle you see . Do a decibel test if you want .

Here's a good one ......over in Detroit , police made a statement that the cause of a big spike in accidents is CHEAP GAS ! Apparently they assume that cheap gas is causing motorists to drive more often , resulting in more accidents ! For real ?

T

I think we all have valuable insights into what roll enforcement and vehicle owners should play in vehicle safety.  I think we can all agree that this is the kind of thing that has to be avoided.  

 

http://www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/charge-against-tech-reinstated/

 

 

Did Jeff show up with his car? Was he harassed? If he wasn't bothered for his car , nobody else should be either.

-- Edited by Lightspeed Mike on Thursday 25th of August 2016 08:53:39 PM

Last time I saw Jeff he was driving a rat rod model A sedan. No fenders, no side glass, no insert in top, rusty body, pie crusts slicks on the back.
That's why I asked.

Livetodrive wrote:

---

This sounds like the kind of scenario where the guy has to be saved from himself.  Preferably before he hurts himself or someone else.  I just don't think its right for him to put us all at risk.  Not Kool at all!

---

 May be maybe not...

Ever blew a tire on a motorcycle at high way speed...?

Ever hit a pothole on the 401 on a ridged Harley?

 

Last time I saw Jeff he was driving a rat rod model A sedan. No fenders, no side glass, no insert in top, rusty body, pie crusts slicks on the back.

Other then the slicks on a rainy day....All sounds well..

A rusty body purposely put on a solid chassis with good brakes etc=does not necessary render such unsafe... eye sore maybe.

 

Ground Pounder wrote:

---

Livetodrive wrote:

---

This sounds like the kind of scenario where the guy has to be saved from himself.  Preferably before he hurts himself or someone else.  I just don't think its right for him to put us all at risk.  Not Kool at all!

---

 May be maybe not...

Ever blew a tire on a motorcycle at high way speed...?

Ever hit a pothole on the 401 on a ridged Harley?

 

Last time I saw Jeff he was driving a rat rod model A sedan. No fenders, no side glass, no insert in top, rusty body, pie crusts slicks on the back.

Other then the slicks on a rainy day....All sounds well..

A rusty body purposely put on a solid chassis with good brakes etc=does not necessary render such unsafe... eye sore maybe.

 

---

 I never said unsafe, as I know he drove it a lot. I will say it would likely grab the attention of those people looking to get rid of modified vehicles from the road.

 

If its safe and meets the standards I'm all for it.  If he's running not DOT tires on the street he should have his plates pulled.  Its black and white for me.  Its not good enough for all of us to wait till he gets hurt and stand around saying "well he died doing what he enjoyed".  I've seen it one too many times and honestly its bull%&IT.

Jeff specifically addressed safety issues at the get together. And he called out everyone to make sure they're vehicles are safe. Good Brakes, good steering, good tires etc etc. He said there's no reason for any of us to drive an unsafe vehicle and put others at risk. He was very clear about wanting to express that message in the meeting I thought.

All good, sounds like he is doing his part and I like the rat rod look.  As you can probably tell, I get frustrated with those either don't or worse, refuse to get the concept.    

shag766 wrote:

---

was thinking the same thing, put the cat's behind the cut outs.
-
"If ya run Exhaust cut out's All the alleged loss power is back with a flip of a switch...."

---

 

About MTO attending. I highly doubt they will attend. It could turn into a personal attack on them since our particular MTO people have a very bad reputation in the community relative to other areas where the staff are much more realistic and rational. Several jurisdictions where I have cruiser friends report ZERO problems with them and are shocked to learn that our bad apple guys seem to be suffering a rather sever case of small dog syndrome.

MTO didnt sow 

The theatre had one of the best attendance I have seen 

A number of door prizes and a talk from one of the audience members about a project that he has been involved with in Autism and car shows

 

Forgot the web address about this program. 

They are looking for people to help out

 

Gumball Rally.... Great Show